21w Flourescent modified to 2w LED @ £1.50 - How to

[aandncaravan]

This is intended as a guide to help those considering modifying old style Fluorescent lights to low energy double brightness, LED's for less than £1.50.

Note this requires some electrical knowledge/skill, but is not difficult.

 

In the past, updating a 21watt Fluorescent light meant fitting an LED tube often with disappointing light output or replacing the entire fixing, sometimes leaving 'fitting holes' where the old unit was previously attached.

 

A month or so ago I had to improve the lighting in the Boot/Hatch area of my Car so I could see what I was doing when working on site. A bit of research found a small bright COB LED panel that was less than 0.75 x 2.0 inches. It had the claimed brightness of a 60watt/240v Incandescent bulb, so reasonably bright.

 

When I attached one of these 36 COB LED panels I was astounded by how bright it was. I have been using LEDs in electronic projects since the 1980's, but was astonished by the 'new' COB led technology.

 

 

Next time away in the Caravan, the poor brightness of the existing lights, even the ones updated to SMD LED's 18 months before, started me thinking.

 

So I took the lens off the 11" Fluorescent light unit which draws over 2amps in use, removed the Tube and measured to see if one of these COB Panels would fit inside.

I then removed/unscrewed the unit to see how easy it was to get to the wiring/ switch.

Most fluorescent lights have an Inverter which boosts the Motorhome/Caravans 12v power up to several hundred volts to spark the tube. This would clearly be way to high for the 12v panel, so the Inverter had to be bypassed.

 

I found the 12v wiring into the unit and disconnected it from the Inverter. It actually went first to a switch at one end of the light.

 

I cut the wire from the output side of the switch so it no longer fed the Inverter, and took the 12v from the switch to a point roughly in the middle of where the old Tube had been.

I then put double sided tape on the back of the 36 COB LED panel and pressed it in place and wired it up. Refitted the lens.

 

When I turned it on it was so bright yet recorded a draw of less than 0.1a. The panels can be found on ebay, many seemingly the same item yet having a variety of lumens from 190 - 400 and around 2.6w. I have just ordered a second pair, at a cost of less than 70p a panel, see :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351687546056?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

I have used light panels in the past, but they were either made up of individual conventional LED's bonded together or the later SMD technology panels, but I have always been disappointed with the light.

But these new COB based LEDs are a world apart from anything before. Brighter, but less harsh light, and so small. You can literally stickypad them to any surface for a good fix.

They are also a tougher unit than the more fragile SMD's which can be broken up if just a shirt rubs on them.

These new COB panels might be perfect for fitting in a Motorhome Locker/Garage without a protecting lens, but suggest a fuse it case they are bashed by something metal that might short the wiring?.

 

 

An Inverter can hold high voltage for some time after being switched off, be careful not to touch any of the output wires to the Tube connectors or the electronic components.

Suggest you only do the above work after the unit has been switched off for a day or two to play safe.

 

The above only applies to 12v lights, not any powered directly by 240v. Please take care around all electricity, even 12v.

 

Note that with each LED panel you usually get three 'bulb socket' adapters, BA9, T501 and festoon so if a light unit is big enough these fit inside the light fitting, powered from the existing bulb socket, see photo.

 

 

 

EDIT :

Someone just emailed to say they are available at 99p a pair :

 

Link to eBay

[Keithl]

Allan,

 

Thanks for posting and just to let you know that, with my powers as an assistant mod, I have changed your second link to a shortened version to correct the page width problem it caused.

 

This is a common problem with this forums software but easily solved when you know how.

 

Cheers.

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

Stick one of these to the underside of the plastic ‘shroud’ above a Boxer/Ducato X250/X290 instrument-cluster and there should be no problem seeing the speedometer in daylight...

[747]

Thanks for the info Allan. I have been intending converting my 2 Flourescents to LED and these LED gizmos will be suitable for another couple of applications including the awning light.

 

Happy Xmas. :D

[Charles]

Thanks for that, I've ordered one. What colour light are they? I prefer warmer white than the bluey ones.

[aandncaravan]

Thank you Keith, does look much better with your change.

 

747, I never thought of my awning light, I have fitted small LED's to replace the two 21w BA9 bulbs, which are better, but still not great. One of these Panels would fit inside the housing as there is quite a bit of space. 'Sticky' it in, then use one of the adapters to plug into a Bulb holder so I don't even have any wiring to alter!!

Great idea.

 

Derek, not sure if you are serious as they are very bright, the smaller 18 LED COB panels at 1" x 0.6" might be better?

 

 

Charles, They are a White light, but not as harsh as some of Blue/White LED's.

 

 

Happy Christmas (lol)

[aandncaravan]

Someone has just emailed to say they have fitted these in a locker, see photo. They look to have more protection and already have a 3M sticky pad on the back.

On ebay search : "FP Light Panel 36 COB LED Panel White DC 12V 2.5W + Festoon Module".

He said he uses the connector as a 'switch', just unplugging, etc when not required. Still only £1.24 each.

 

[mgnbuk]

How warm are these running on the 13,5 - 14V motorhome / caravan "12V" system when the mains charger is operating ?

 

I have converted a number of rechargeable torches (the type that use a battery drill exchangeable battery pack) to use the circular COB leds instead of the very expensive 18V lamps. The first one I got was rated at 18V, so I figured that it would be Ok on an 18V battery - it got very hot very quickly (i.e too hot to touch after seconds of operation). Putting an ammeter in series with the Led showed that direct on the battery (actually 18,75V) showed that it was drawing nearly double it's rated current. I put a cheap DC voltage regulator (like this one from Ebay 112132929777) in between the battery & the Led & adjusted it to give the rated current (300mA) & found that the actual voltage at the device was nearer 17V than the rated 18. Dropping the voltage further to reduce the current to 250mA caused little reduction in light output, but the device barely got warm.

 

On the next conversion I got a 24V rated led & tried it directly across the battery with the ammeter in circuit & found that was taking around 250mA (rated 300 mA max) & stayed cool.

 

The Cob leds indicated don't give a rated current (and Leds are rated by current), but do specify 12V operation - and 12V vehicles do not supply 12V ! For a courtesy light, used briefly, overheating may not be an issue - running for a couple of hours on a higher voltage than rated may be cause for concern.

 

Please don't take this as knocking the idea, just a "heads up" to something that may not have been considered. I doubt very much that these low cost lights will include a constant current driver to cope with the varying supply voltages that could reasonably be expected to be found in a caravan or MH. Adding a cheap regulator between the supply & Led and setting it up to suit the Led completely removed overheating on the example I gave above - might be worth experimenting with the items shown to be sure they work without overheating on varying supplies ?

 

Nigel B

[aandncaravan]

A good point.

The panel I fitted in the Boot of the car was only on when I was working in the Boot so the engine wasn't running, it only ever got slightly warm. Although I have noticed the COB's running warmer than the old SMD's used to.

 

 

Since doing the Fluorescent light the guard has been in place so not tested the temperature, but will do next time we go out at the end of January.

Our Caravan charger is only rated at 13.5v, and actually delivers 13.2v, so hopefully it won't be an issue, but that could change significantly for someone with a 14.7v AGM battery charger.

 

I will do some testing and report back here.

 

 

[Charles]

Yes I wondered about the higher charger voltage. One possible solution (if it's a problem) is to put a couple of silicon diodes in series with the light. Each diode has a voltage drop across it of around 0.7v to two in series (1.4v) may help. There's also the LM??? Voltage regulator IC, I forget the numbers but they are a very simple circuit with only a couple of extra components. It will all be googleable.

 

Here it is.

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/301311881912

 

Cheap as chips :)

[Alanb]

Allan,

 

Thanks for initiating an interesting thread. You have set me thinking.

 

My PVC originally had three strip lights fitted in the lounge area. The most used pair were replaced with fittings employing 30 LEDs each, but I have never been satisfied with the relatively small increase in brilliance. Perhaps a further upgrade is on the cards.

 

Alan

[Barryd999]

What a cracking thread and find. Thanks for posting this. I am forever having problems with our flourescent lights in the van. Some are dim despite me changing the tubes. Dodgy inverter or voltage drop probably.

 

So all I have to do is bypass the inverter and wire in one of these and stick it in the existing plastic light case?

 

Im a little concerned about the over heating thing but it might not be an issue in my case if the voltage is low anyway.

[Mick Bajcar]

I actually did something similar and replaced the 2D fluorescent with two LED panels a year or so ago and it was certainly a little brighter with the LEDs than the fluorescent tube but for a much reduced power use too - I simply removed the inverter and lamp holder totally.

 

It sounds to me from what Alan has said that these COB lights are even better though I won't bother to change what I have already done. I have ordered some for the under bed, locker and outside lights. I will put a couple of diodes in series with the supply leads rather than any fancy regulators though.

 

Mick Bajcar

[aandncaravan]

It should be fairly easy to check the COB panel temperature, but if anyone is concerned, as noted above, a voltage regulator is not complex or hard to wire in.

 

These very simple voltage regulators in the photo below are available on ebay for 42p each, five for £2.06, so will control the Temperature, and maybe the light output?.

 

The regulators are rated at 1.8amp continuous so each Reg could cope with up to 6 COB light panels?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/5pcs-Mini-360-DC-DC-Buck-Converter-Step-Down-Module-4-75V-23V-to-1V-17V-MW-/322204348198?hash=item4b04e02f26:g:l94AAOSwSv1XlfDD

[aandncaravan]

I now have two x 48 COB LED light panels in the 'ex-florescent' light fitting and after an hour of running with the mains charger on, the light panels are barely warm, without any other components fitted.

 

Another Light Panel that arrived in the week that I fitted in the Car today is not as bright, but again only gets warm even with the 14.4v of the car alternator.

 

 

But in any case I am not sure getting hot is a big issue? I replaced two 21w bulbs in another light fitting in the Caravan so turned the light on to help me see what I was doing. It was fiddly to do and by the time I got around to removing the second bulb it had been on 10 minutes and when I gripped the bulb to remove it, I was burnt badly.

 

Been handling LED's so much lately forgot just how hot a bulb gets.

 

 

I have ordered some 4,000 lumen (8,000 lumen per pair) LED Head light bulbs, it will be interesting to see how hot they get?

 

 

 

[Barryd999]

aandncaravan - 2016-12-21 5:11 PM

 

I now have two x 48 COB LED light panels in the 'ex-florescent' light fitting and after an hour of running with the mains charger on, the light panels are barely warm, without any other components fitted.

 

Another Light Panel that arrived in the week that I fitted in the Car today is not as bright, but again only gets warm even with the 14.4v of the car alternator.

 

 

But in any case I am not sure getting hot is a big issue? I replaced two 21w bulbs in another light fitting in the Caravan so turned the light on to help me see what I was doing. It was fiddly to do and by the time I got around to removing the second bulb it had been on 10 minutes and when I gripped the bulb to remove it, I was burnt badly.

 

Been handling LED's so much lately forgot just how hot a bulb gets.

 

 

I have ordered some 4,000 lumen (8,000 lumen per pair) LED Head light bulbs, it will be interesting to see how hot they get?

 

 

 

That sounds good news. The LED lights, not you burning yourself. :D

 

I ordered a pair to try but they are coming from China I think so wont be here until Jan. Not entirely sure what to do with them but I am sure ill figure it out.

[Charles]

There's some headlight bulbs on eBay £63 a pair. Look awesome. What did you pay for yours?

[Derek Uzzell]

There’s a good deal of on-line information (mostly from the USA) about replacing halogen headlamp bulbs with LED-type. Some examples here

 

http://mycarneedsthis.com/todays-best-led-headlights-and-bulbs/

 

http://bestheadlightbulbs.com/brightest-led-headlight-bulbs-of-2016/

 

 

There’s also advice from Which? here

 

http://www.which.co.uk/reviews/cars/article/car-headlight-bulbs-explained

 

The higher the light output the greater the amount of heat that will need to be dissipated from a LED headlamp bulb’s base. Examples of various designs are shown here

 

http://www.horizonleds.co.uk/cree-leds/headlamp-cree-led

 

and it will be noted that heat-sinks and fans are commonly used.

 

When a vehicle has a CAN-bus system that identifies headlamp bulb failure, a resistor will need to be provided to allow for this. It’s (probably) safe to assume that LED bulbs that are used as original equipment (OE) in LED headlamps are suitably CE-marked, legal and ‘safe’, but that may not be so with LED bulbs bought to replace OE halogen bulbs. When the LED bulb carries a bulky heat-sink or fan on its base, it also needs to be considered whether it will actually fit into the OE headlamp-unit that was designed for a halogen bulb.

[Charles]

You'd think if they get hot they would be can bus compatible. Seems like they're sacrificing efficiency for brightness.

I remember reading an article years ago mentioning heat dissipation problems with LEDs, I thought at the time "what heat? I've never noticed them get warm" different beasts today.

[Derek Uzzell]

These links may be of interest

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/gds/A-Guide-to-Buying-LED-Headlights-/10000000177321910/g.html

 

http://thegarage.jalopnik.com/should-you-swap-your-headlight-bulbs-for-leds-1728026383

[aandncaravan]

The bulbs I got were £26 a pair, and one of the few that actually are Dip/Main headlight bulbs. At least I hope so, and this is the third set I have bought over the last 18 months.

 

Most of the 'Headlight' bulbs I have seen on ebay, until very recently, have all been Driving lamps. Although some of them advertised as having a Dip/Main facility, can't be as the LEDs were placed in such a position that light scatter would be a major issue.

 

A good example of how bad they can be is these : http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/TXVSO8-H1-H7-H4-110W-CREE-LED-Headlight-Conversion-Kit-Bulb-SuperBright-6000k-UK-/262759367857?var=&hash=item3d2dadc4b1:m:mxgy3AFwoCSZnIPjWEknVVA

 

For example they do not have the LED's in exactly the same place as a Halogen 'Filament'. Compare them to the Philips ones in the photo below.

 

 

You will see that in the photo below, the 'Philips' LED's have the LED's placed exactly in line with the standard for a H4 9003 bulb, and you will note a reflector/blocker exactly like the silver reflector on an H4 Halogen.

 

My first set of 'LED Headlight bulbs' that I bought in 2015 were both poor light output and even on Dip, appeared to oncoming drivers as being on Main bean.

 

These are the ones I ordered a couple of weeks ago :

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/192046215487?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

 

We will see if they are as rubbish as the first 2 sets.

 

Be careful about the quoted 'lumens', as some quote the brightness on the basis that ALL LED chips will be lit at once, when on an H4 bulb, only half of them will be illuminated.

They also quote the lumens for a pair of bulbs, not one. so a 9,000 lumen 'bulb' might be just 2,250 lumens per Dip bulb in the real World and little brighter than a top Halogen.

 

If you are serious about buying some, suggest you read the detail on the actual Chips used in the bulbs (the better ads publish these details) and calculate the brightness from there.

 

The ones I have ordered (which may be rubbish, so don't copy my lead) have a rating of 40W per bulb on Dip, when I had expected much lower energy consumption.

 

While these will run hot, I would rather touch one of these with my bare fingers than a Halogen bulb!!

The ones I have bought to assess have a cooling fan, the reliability of which might be the limiting factor in their lifetime?

[Charles]

These look like the latest maybe? 12,000 LM

 

Look at this on eBay http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/262760746542

 

 

 

I'll be very interested in the ones you've ordered too. Keep us posted.

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Charles, they do look a later/better version than the ones I have ordered.

 

I will post back what they are like when they arrive.

[aandncaravan]

Charles, the LED bulbs have arrived. If I fitted them as they are they would dazzle UK drivers yet fail to light up the kerb area safely.

However, I suspect they would be legal and safer in mainland Europe, lighting up a French Kerb better than a standard UK Motorhome headlight with Black tape?.

 

Luckily they have an adjustment screw that allows the bulb to be rotated in the lens to change the 'kick-up' on the Right, to a 'Kick-up' on the Left to make them UK legal and much safer.

 

This might mean they could possibly be utilised to turn a UK Motorhome Beam pattern into a Mainland Europe version if the adjustment was made in reverse at a later date? I.e. a simple screw adjustment to safely light up the correct kerb depending on where one was travelling.

 

Possibly, also be used to convert an Import 'Lens' into a UK road lens, just by changing the bulb for one with the correct adjustment?

 

 

As it is an interesting development in it's own right, at least IMO, I have started a new thread with more info :

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/LED-Headlight-bulbs-and-driving-abroad/45999/

 

I have attached a photo of UK and French beam patterns below to show what might be achievable?

 

[Charles]

OK thanks for the update, will be interesting to see the brightness/reach comparison with halogen. I don't often drive the van at night but I still want them :)

I think a lot of the time people are impressed with the whiter colour and think they are more powerful but in the end the lumen output is lower, seen it all before with replacement brake light bulbs.