starvin marvin Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 We might all just about be able to agree that the Fifa fines for the home nations wearing the above are another example of authorities being completely out of touch. Every time I think about it I shake my head in amazement at the stupidity of their actions. Here's hoping the home nations tell them to stuff the fines were the sun never shines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 I agree, but on the other hand it could be seen by some of the more militant and oppressive countires as a precedent entitling them to display all kinds of provocative badges and insignia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 Initially like you i was somewhat staggered when i first read news on this subject but apparently display of anything politically related is not allowed by the FA or FIFA, and the poppy is considered a political symbol. I began to see things differently when a friend who is a big football fan pointed out the wider issues. Once they allow one, then they open the floodgates for the rest. I'll leave you to decide for yourself the unsavoury types of banner/flag waving loonies that would bring in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted December 19, 2016 Author Share Posted December 19, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-19 8:52 PM Initially like you i was somewhat staggered when i first read news on this subject but apparently display of anything politically related is not allowed by the FA or FIFA, and the poppy is considered a political symbol. I began to see things differently when a friend who is a big football fan pointed out the wider issues. Once they allow one, then they open the floodgates for the rest. I'll leave you to decide for yourself the unsavoury types of banner/flag waving loonies that would bring in. I take your point entirely, goodness knows how many countries are members of Fifa. I just find it difficult to see the poppy as an overt political symbol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted December 19, 2016 Share Posted December 19, 2016 They should make an exception for the poppy out of respect for the young men and women that gave their lives for us. There's always exceptions in life and the poppy appeal is worthy of one. As for the fine, it's not illegal in law to wear a poppy so it's not a real fine is it? Don't pay it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 starvin marvin - 2016-12-19 11:20 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-19 8:52 PM Initially like you i was somewhat staggered when i first read news on this subject but apparently display of anything politically related is not allowed by the FA or FIFA, and the poppy is considered a political symbol. I began to see things differently when a friend who is a big football fan pointed out the wider issues. Once they allow one, then they open the floodgates for the rest. I'll leave you to decide for yourself the unsavoury types of banner/flag waving loonies that would bring in. I take your point entirely, goodness knows how many countries are members of Fifa. I just find it difficult to see the poppy as an overt political symbol. Personally i never considered it a political symbol but when you think about it it is really. That the PM saw fit to make an issue out of it in the House of Commons only further validated it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Charles - 2016-12-19 11:52 PM They should make an exception for the poppy out of respect for the young men and women that gave their lives for us. There's always exceptions in life and the poppy appeal is worthy of one. They can't, for the reasons i stated in the first post. As for the fine, it's not illegal in law to wear a poppy so it's not a real fine is it? Don't pay it. The clubs concerned, i would have been happier had they decided not to wear the poppy BUT then donate the equivalent of the fine to the British Legion. At least that way it's a win/win. The clubs don't get in trouble with the FA and the British Legion benefit by £62,775. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted December 20, 2016 Author Share Posted December 20, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-20 1:49 AM starvin marvin - 2016-12-19 11:20 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-19 8:52 PM Initially like you i was somewhat staggered when i first read news on this subject but apparently display of anything politically related is not allowed by the FA or FIFA, and the poppy is considered a political symbol. I began to see things differently when a friend who is a big football fan pointed out the wider issues. Once they allow one, then they open the floodgates for the rest. I'll leave you to decide for yourself the unsavoury types of banner/flag waving loonies that would bring in. I take your point entirely, goodness knows how many countries are members of Fifa. I just find it difficult to see the poppy as an overt political symbol. Personally i never considered it a political symbol but when you think about it it is really. That the PM saw fit to make an issue out of it in the House of Commons only further validated it as such. You're quite right, however Mother Theresa needs any peg to hang her hat on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 No, No, No, the poppy is not a political symbol, it is a cross party, international, ecumenical symbol of our remembrance of all those of many nations, faiths and ethnicity who gave their lives fighting to uphold the rule of international law. We should not allow people who do not share our views to tell us what we should do in our own country. If they do not understand why we wear the poppy, they are entitled to ask us, nicely, to explain what it's all about, but if they do not want to do so, we must be prepared to stand by and do what we want to. Because I am paranoid I see this as another instance of mealy mouthed politicians and Whitehall mandarins allowing tinpot , twopenny halfpenny jumped up unelected despots interfere in our affairs and tell us what we can or cannot do. As far as setting a precedent for those who might wish to display political or religious symbols on their clothing then FIFA and the FA can and should ban it, and that ban should apply to all the home nations as well but the poppy is not such a symbol. If FIFA does not wish to understand that they are wrong and refuses to reverse their decision, then we should explain that we will not pay the fines, and if they further decide to start being really stupid and impose more sanctions on us we should offer our goodbyes and explain that we might manage quite nicely without being part of their corrupt racket. AGD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 starvin marvin - 2016-12-20 12:10 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-20 1:49 AM starvin marvin - 2016-12-19 11:20 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-19 8:52 PM Initially like you i was somewhat staggered when i first read news on this subject but apparently display of anything politically related is not allowed by the FA or FIFA, and the poppy is considered a political symbol. I began to see things differently when a friend who is a big football fan pointed out the wider issues. Once they allow one, then they open the floodgates for the rest. I'll leave you to decide for yourself the unsavoury types of banner/flag waving loonies that would bring in. I take your point entirely, goodness knows how many countries are members of Fifa. I just find it difficult to see the poppy as an overt political symbol. Personally i never considered it a political symbol but when you think about it it is really. That the PM saw fit to make an issue out of it in the House of Commons only further validated it as such. You're quite right, however Mother Theresa needs any peg to hang her hat on. To be fair to Theresa May ( which may not be a popular idea with some on here ) I think her initial reaction was incredulity that an outfit like FIFA was claiming that they were making a stand on their " principles". I don't regard what she said as in any way political. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randonneur Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 There are no clubs involved in this incident..The FA are the ones who have been fined over the countries they represent ie England,Scotland,Wales,Ireland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Archiesgrandad - 2016-12-20 1:04 PM No, No, No, the poppy is not a political symbol, it is a cross party, international, ecumenical symbol of our remembrance of all those of many nations, faiths and ethnicity who gave their lives fighting to uphold the rule of international law. We should not allow people who do not share our views.. Thats what it means to you but you can't assume it means the same to everybody. What you are saying is We should not allow people who do not share my views .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Tracker - 2016-12-19 8:38 PM it could be seen by some of the more militant and oppressive countires as a precedent entitling them to display all kinds of provocative badges and insignia. A wise comment. Was it a mistake ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 John52 - 2016-12-20 6:46 PM Tracker - 2016-12-19 8:38 PM it could be seen by some of the more militant and oppressive countires as a precedent entitling them to display all kinds of provocative badges and insignia. A wise comment. Was it a mistake ;-) That's the excuse the politically correct use to ban free speech Rich *-) ........... Although I'm not surprised it appeals to John ;-) ...... He has a very low opinion of us oikes :D ........... Funny thing is .......quite how FIFA have managed to find any moral high ground to stand on (lol) (lol) (lol) >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Leake Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 I'd tell em to get stuffed and refuse to pay. What could they do about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Colin Leake - 2016-12-20 7:18 PM I'd tell em to get stuffed and refuse to pay. What could they do about that? Take their ball home :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Archiesgrandad - 2016-12-20 1:04 PM No, No, No, the poppy is not a political symbol, it is a cross party, international, ecumenical symbol of our remembrance of all those of many nations, faiths and ethnicity who gave their lives fighting to uphold the rule of international law. We should not allow people who do not share our views to tell us what we should do in our own country. If they do not understand why we wear the poppy, they are entitled to ask us, nicely, to explain what it's all about, but if they do not want to do so, we must be prepared to stand by and do what we want to. Because I am paranoid I see this as another instance of mealy mouthed politicians and Whitehall mandarins allowing tinpot , twopenny halfpenny jumped up unelected despots interfere in our affairs and tell us what we can or cannot do. AGD If you see the poppy as "ours" then it's not international. Other countries, including Germany honour the fallen and have their own Remembrance day known as the Volkstrauertag observed at the Bundestag. It was never intended to be a political symbol but unfortunately politics has always been a major ingredient to all wars past and present. The following linked article makes some interesting points. http://theconversation.com/poppies-are-a-political-symbol-both-on-and-off-the-football-pitch-68113 Randonneur - 2016-12-20 1:43 PM There are no clubs involved in this incident..The FA are the ones who have been fined over the countries they represent ie England,Scotland,Wales,Ireland. Apologies i should have made that post more clear. They are appealing the fines set by FIFA which involve England, Wales, Scotland and Ireland FA.....that's what i meant. The amounts involved are ridiculous but i accept FIFA have rules and if they relax a rule for one then it just opens the doors to others and we both know what that would lead to. By wearing the poppy all the relevant FA clubs/countries have done is further swell the coffers of FIFA for it's board members to shovel off into their personal offshore "Blatter Banking". It would have made more sense had the FA made a very open protest by donating £62,775 to the British Legion in place of wearing the poppy. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2016/dec/19/fifa-fines-english-fa-poppies-scotland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted December 20, 2016 Share Posted December 20, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-20 11:18 PM It would have made more sense had the FA made a very open protest by donating £62,775 to the British Legion in place of wearing the poppy. Speaking as a ex serviceman sometimes its not about the money *-) .......... Especially when dealing with such a corrupt organisation like FIFA :-| ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 pelmetman - 2016-12-20 11:50 PM Bulletguy - 2016-12-20 11:18 PM It would have made more sense had the FA made a very open protest by donating £62,775 to the British Legion in place of wearing the poppy. Speaking as a ex serviceman sometimes its not about the money *-) .......... Instead of digging your heels in try looking at how i suggested. Your pedantic stubbornness has just sent £62,775 to FIFA instead of the British Legion.........brilliant. How insane is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 hi, I don't see the poppy as a 'political' emblem, I see it more as a reminder of something no country/countries should ever get involved in again-whatever religion or political persuasion. I believe I am in the 'tell em to get stuffed' team cheers derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 The poppy is a token of rememberance, my grand father never came back and all my grandmother had was a medal the poppy and the tomb of the unknown warrior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 21, 2016 Share Posted December 21, 2016 derek pringle - 2016-12-21 9:03 AM hi, I don't see the poppy as a 'political' emblem, I see it more as a reminder of something no country/countries should ever get involved in again-whatever religion or political persuasion. I believe I am in the 'tell em to get stuffed' team cheers derek Then we haven't learned much over the past 71 years have we?!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derek pringle Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Bulletguy - 2016-12-21 9:07 PM derek pringle - 2016-12-21 9:03 AM hi, I don't see the poppy as a 'political' emblem, I see it more as a reminder of something no country/countries should ever get involved in again-whatever religion or political persuasion. I believe I am in the 'tell em to get stuffed' team cheers derek Then we haven't learned much over the past 71 years have we?!! I agree Bulletguy but surely that's not the fault of the poppy. Peace it can be said is as political as war. merry xmas derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 Although we may all think that the poppy is an inoffensive symbol of remembrance, so why not on Remembrance Day, I can understand why FIFA feel they have to apply a complete ban on all symbols and emblems of a messagey sort on the playing field lest the spirit of the game is undermined. Pity they cannot also deal with corruption in the game but two wrongs don't make a right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted December 22, 2016 Share Posted December 22, 2016 StuartO - 2016-12-22 10:23 AM Although we may all think that the poppy is an inoffensive symbol of remembrance, so why not on Remembrance Day, I can understand why FIFA feel they have to apply a complete ban on all symbols and emblems of a messagey sort on the playing field lest the spirit of the game is undermined. Pity they cannot also deal with corruption in the game but two wrongs don't make a right. FIFA got themselves in "a rock and a hard place" scenario. Not being interested in football i was unaware of their rules but when it was pointed out to me by someone who is a footie fan, it made me think in a broader sense. I agree about the corruption, that's been staggering but then greed knows no bounds. I just could not get my head around Blatters corrupt dealings. An 80 year old man already extremely wealthy, what the hell does he need even more money for FGS!? And now, as if the corruption wasn't bad enough itself, cases of historical sex abuse have now surfaced. Ugh!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.