battery advice

[stvekay]

Leisure batterys only lasting a day or so before hitting 12 on meter, even went down to 10 something in France despite having sun giving a charge on solar panel.

Has anyone any advice on the best maintenance free batterys. Not looking for cheap, but good.

I have 2 110s in a 9048 Rapido.

 

Thanks

 

Steve kelly

[Derek Uzzell]

Advice on this forum is that an excellent choice would be a battery (or batteries if you’ve got more than one) from Varta’s LFD range

 

http://www.varta-automotive.com/en-gb/products/leisure/professional-dual-purpose/

 

http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php

 

Some light reading...

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/search/query.asp?action=search&searchforumid=all&keywords=lfd90&author=aandncaravan&days=365&Submit=Search

[stvekay]

Thanks

[stvekay]

Thanks again for the info, and the "light reading" We like to use the van in the winter with no electric hook up. We have low voltage lighting. no TV. Once the heater is going it draws about 4amps including lights.

I sometimes use a 300w inverter to charge phone or small digital radio. it draws about 1.5amps, from memory. How long would I be able to camp? we have a solar panel (not sure of size/power. Would I be better buying a 110AH battery?

Thanks for help

great forum

 

Regards

Steve Kelly

[Derek Uzzell]

I don’t think you’ve ever said how old your Rapido motorhome is, but the leisure batteries Rapido have fitted as original equipment for several years have been Banner “Energy Bull” 95751. These are normally described (and shown in Rapido brochures) as 100Ah capacity, but are sometimes advertised as 110Ah as in this example:

 

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-banner-energy-bull-low-height-leisure-battery-95751/?gclid=CJ3a8LT3lNECFYIcGwoda2kBgA

 

If you currently have a pair of Energy Bull 95751 batteries, the simplest approach would be to replace them with a pair of Varta LFD90 batteries. As the dimensions of an LFD90 are the same as those of a 95751, there should then be no significant installation difficulties (though you might need to swap the vent-tube connectors).

 

Can’t usefully advise on how long you should expect to be able to winter-camp off hook-up. With two fully-charged Varta LFD90 batteries, ignoring the solar panel and assuming discharge no lower than 50%, you’d have 90Ah to play with - so let’s say an easy couple of days. It’s a "How long is a piece of string question? really, but hopefully you’ll have some idea of the duration-limit from when your present batteries were functioning OK.

[stvekay]

Thanks again for your reply van is 07 and I replaced them with 110ah elescol. Will do some more light reading. Thought Banner Bull had bad reputation? but will read a bit more and try and remember what I have read.

Regards

Steve

[StuartO]

On the question of how much battery capacity you need, it sounds like your preference for non-EHU camping should inclne you to maximise battery AH capacity, as long as there is space available for the batteries and your payload will stand their considerable weight.

 

In winter your solar panels aren't likely to  deliver much and i have found this year (MH stored in the garden, unobstructed light to the panels) they don't even keep the batteries topped up with no draw on the batteries.  So you will need to recharge big or multiple batteries by other means in winter.  I have gone back to leaving the MH plugged into the mains while in storage.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

stvekay - 2016-12-30 9:05 AM

 

Thanks again for your reply van is 07 and I replaced them with 110ah elescol. Will do some more light reading. Thought Banner Bull had bad reputation? but will read a bit more and try and remember what I have read.

Regards

Steve

 

Elecsol-branded batteries were heavily advertised years ago (and fitted by Auto-Trail as original equipment for a while). The company received a good deal of criticism - mainly for its ‘customer unfriendliness’ and tough attitude to warranty claims - and received wisdom was that the batteries themselves were OK but nothing special. This late-2012 forum discussion refers

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Elecsol-110-amp-battery/29617/

 

This link

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Elecsol-Batteries

 

suggests that an Enduroline EXV110 would be an alternative to an Elecsol 110 battery, and the physical dimensions of an EXV110

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/EXV110-Enduroline-Calcium-Leisure-Battery-P8423.html

 

are given as 354 mm (length) x 175mm (width) x 190mm (height) - the same as a Banner Energy Bull 95751 or a Varta LFD90.

 

Banner uses the “Bull” suffix for all its battery ranges

 

http://www.bannerbatteries.com/banner/produkte/batterien/index2_en.php

 

Most relevant to motorhomes are likely to be the AGM “Running Bull” range and the wet-acid “Energy Bull” range. Criticisms of the former (as I understand it) seem to involve premature failure due to an unhappy marriage between Banner’s AGM technology and motorhome electrical systems and usage. Criticisms of Energy Bull batteries (mostly) appear to relate to them needing to be regularly checked for correct electrolyte-level and this fact either not being appreciated by the motorhome owner, and/or the battery being installed so that it is not easily accessible. I don’t think there’s any firm evidence that - providing the electrolyte-level is correctly maintained - the failure rate of Energy Bull batteries is higher than average.

 

One reason I suggested opting for Varta LFD90s is because I believed they’d provide no-messing-about like-for-like replacement. However (as StuartO says) there’s nothing to stop you fitting bigger batteries if you so wish. You’d need to bear in mind though that this might complicate immediate replacement - for example Varta’s 140Ah LFD140 has both terminals at one end of the battery, not the more normal single terminal on each end.

 

Tayna has the following list

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/Low-Height-110Ah-Leisure-Batteries-G434.html

 

with several ‘leisure battery' products with 354L x 175W x 190H dimensions. If you wanted to pay £230 for a pair of Enduroline EXV110s, rather than £160 for a pair of Varta LFD90s, that would be your choice - but I wouldn’t!

[aandncaravan]

Stvekay, If you are considering opting for Habitation batteries which may offer a few more amps in the same physical package, maybe you should be made aware that this extra initial capacity is often only available at the expense of durability and less capacity in the longer term?

 

Generally, the tougher the battery, the lower it's Ah capacity as it isn't physically possible to currently build a tough battery and a high capacity battery in the same physical package in this technology bracket.

 

For example, one of the toughest batteries in the 354L x 175W x 190H (the most common fitment size in Motorhomes/Caravans) is the Exide G80. While this battery has many limitations, amongst them slower charging, it is a tough battery but has only an 80Ah rating.

 

The Varta LFD90, and it's brother the Bosch L5, is a genuine Deep Cycle battery rated at 90Ah.

 

The Banner 95751 is a 100Ah battery.

 

The Lion Leisure is a 110Ah battery.

 

 

The likes of the 110Ah batteries in this size, being at the other end of the 'toughnesss' scale, are now commonly acknowledged to be anything but 'super durable'.

In our experience having very short lives with rapid drop off in performanace.

 

As a result of a 110Ah batteries more rapid deterioration, the real capacity may fall off quite quickly, with nothing like 110Ah being available before the batteries are half way through their life.

In a worst case it might be delivering less than 80Ah for each 110Ah charge as well as self discharging more quickly, high fluid loss, etc.

 

 

Ask yourself why it is so difficult to find ANY Quality 110Ah battery manufacturer at this physical size (unless it has some special technology inside like 'Pure Lead' or else costs the Earth)??

 

 

The fact that a budget Leisure battery is rated at 110Ah in the above physical size, should be a warning to avoid it, IMO.

 

Our advice would be that If you do buy them, you can make them last a bit longer by only discharging them very lightly, no more than 25% discharge or drawing a max 27Ah each discharge.

Treat them as ultra light duty batteries and they might last a couple of years?

 

 

Derek says he wouldn't buy/fit them.

We really, really, really wouldn't.

It isn't just that they will cost you more in the longer term than a proper battery, but the energy it will deliver will be a long way below the performance of best of breed.

 

They also seem less tolerant of the sometimes higher than ideal Solar Power charging voltages of some Solar solutions than the quality batteries.

 

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

aandncaravan - 2016-12-31 7:47 PM

 

...Derek says he wouldn't buy/fit them...

 

 

What I actually said was that I would not spend £230 for two Enduroline EXV110 batteries, as opposed to £160 for two Varta LFD90 batteries.

 

Both batteries have similar physical dimensions. Tayna’s price for the Enduroline battery is £115 and the Varta battery’s price is £80.

 

I know little about Enduroline batteries other than what was said in this highly technical 2012 forum thread

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/leisure-battery-which-to-buy-/26707/

 

but you have provided plenty of credible advice about the merits of Varta’s LFD range and I’ve no reason to disbelieve this. The choice for me, then, would be to pay £115 for an unknown-quantity Euroline battery when I can purchase for £35 less a Varta battery that I’ve some confidence would be the superior product. It’s really a no-brainer...

[stvekay]

Thank you for all this info, which I think even I understand!!

So as I understand I buy 2 110AH batterys, which may only give 110AH for a short time, before dropping to possibly 80-90AH, or 2 90 AH (Varta) which should deliver 90AH for a longer time?

We have just had 3 days off electric, the 2 110AH Elcesol battreys ended at 12.2 on the meter , I was using 1.5amps for about 24 hours = 36AH and may be 2.5amps for about 8 hours 20 AH ie 56 AH so that is just over a quarter of the total AH in the batterys? I suppose I am going to have to make a decision, I dont like the thought of having 110AH and only being able to use a small part of their capacity.

Thanks again for all your help.

 

Happy new year

Steve kelly

[StuartO]

If you make any use of a leisure battery that use shortens its life (ie the number of charge/discharge cycles it will last for before needing replacement) and the deeper you discharge, the more life-shortening effect you suffer.  But of course the whole point of having leisure batteries is to use them and if you carry multiple high capacity batteries in order to minimise the depth of discharge, you carry an awful lot of battery weight about and sacrifice payload in order to do so.

 

And batteries are relatively cheap (in comparisson to other MH expenses like depreciation and road tax) so it makes more sense to be willing to discharge your leisure batteries fairly deeply when necessary and just replace them a bit more often as necessary.  Even if you give you leisure batteries heavy discharge use they are still going to last several years.  Varta LFDs are a very good buy.

 

 

[veletron]

Hi

 

If you can do the additional height then a couple of 140AH Exide ER650's might be an option. Same footprint as a '110AH', but several cm taller.

 

http://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/140-ah-exide-deep-cycle-leisure-battery/

 

Nigel

[stvekay]

I have been reading the Banner battery again thread.

Just when I thought I was able to make a decision, and all I had to worry about was AH, physical size and cost, I now read there are different types of Chargers /AGM batterys? etc.

2007 Rapido will my charging system be ok for Varta and Enduroline? Also I want to replace starter battery, am I safe to just disconnect it my self or is there an engine management system to worry about. Sorry to be thick!!

Thanks

 

Steve kelly

[aandncaravan]

The 2007 Rapido chargers are optimised for Wet Acid batteries so perfect for Varta LFD, etc.

 

The Varta LFD 90 also makes a very good Starter battery, it will start a truck engine in sub zero temperatures. It is a dual purpose Deep Cycle Leisure and Starter battery.

 

If you fit the Varta LFD90 as both Starter and Habitation batteries, you can swap them around in 2 years time to spread the load and extend the life of the batteries still further. A Starter battery has a really easy life, a Habitation battery a hard life. Swapping them around can double the battery life time.

 

 

The Varta LFD 90 is the correct physical size to replace most Fiat/Pug/Merc Starter batteries whether fitted under the Bonnet or under the front passenger feet.

I think, but can't remember doing one, that it is also the battery size used by Renault.

 

Because the LFD90 is better at Deep discharge than a conventional Starter battery, if the Starter battery ever runs down less than ideal voltage in storage, the LFD90 is likely to handle it better without any loss of life or damage.

 

Many Motorhomes can stand idle for long periods of time when the Starter battery drops to a lower than ideal voltage. This is not usage that most Starter batteries are designed for and can shorten their life.

It is usage the LFD90 is designed for and will tolerate these occasions better.

 

 

On that vehicle you can just swap the batteries, you don't need to worry about the ECU, but you might have to re-enter the Radio code?

 

 

[stvekay]

Thanks for the very prompt reply.

Are you a computer? or a real person?

 

Thanks again

 

Regards

 

Steve Kelly

[aandncaravan]

I am almost a real person. My Wife thinks I am starting to turn into a Computer, I'm spending so much time on it.

 

 

Currently building 3 new websites so spending a lot of time at the Laptop.

When emails or alerts come through, I just switch pages.