Frad Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hi I have a auto trail 364 apache, could anyone tell me where the switch is for the for the water heater. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caddies104 Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hi How old is your Apache, all the controls are usually above the habitation door, at least they are on the 632.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Or if you're looking for the 230 V switch it could be anywhere! The 230 V switch in our Cheyenne is actually in the pan cupboard under the oven, the heater is then under the foot of the bed adjacent. You need to get down on your hands and knees and look in all the cupboards near where the heater is located. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Allen Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Hi, we have an AutoTrail Apache 700 2015. The first switch is on the main panel in the cupboard behind the drivers seat on our van and the other one at floor level in the cupboard in the lounge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 My understanding is that Frad’s motorhome is a 2012 model (presumably an Apache 634). The 634 was fitted with a Truma convector air-heater and a Truma “Ultrastore” gas/230V water-boiler. The 2012 Auto-Trail handbook seems reasonably informative regarding operation of the heating system and where the switches are. That doesn’t mean, though, that what is written in the handbook is 100% accurate, or that Auto-Trail hasn’t added an extra switch somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Have you tried asking the previous owner? Our switches for water/heating are in the wardrobe for the electric and on the wall for the gas useage. PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 The 2012 Auto-Trail Apache handbook http://www.auto-trail.co.uk/assets/downloads/files/d94938857e1f9936e8983d175be85dab952d8f45.pdf suggests (Page 19) that there’s a switch for the water-heater on the EC500 PSU. Page 32 has the following advice about 230V operation of the “Ultrastore” water-boiler. "230V Operation To use the water heater on 230V mains simply turn the clearly marked switch into the ‘ON’ position. The switch is clearly marked with an ‘ULTRASTORE’ label. The position of this switch can vary from model to model so please familiarise yourself with the location of this switch before using your vehicle for the first time." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frad Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hi all, thanks for all the help but still cant find the switch looked at all the suggestions, the book does say it is clearly marked with a ''ULTRASTORE'' Label but not where the switch is. My Auto trail is a Apache 634 2012. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Alan Truma’s operating instructions for the “Ultrastore” water-boiler that I’d expect to be in your motorhome can be found here: https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/70_000/70020_33900.pdf In principle there are two switches for the gas/230V boiler - one for gas operation and a 2nd for 230V electric operation. As you’ll see from Truma’s operating instructions, both switches are marked “Ultrastore” and both are visually similar. The switch for gas operation will usually be located in a reasonably prominent position, but it’s not unknown for the 230V electric-operation switch to be ‘hidden’. John Allen’s posting of 2 February 2017 8:20 PM above suggests that both switches on his 2015 Apache are in cupboards and, as the A-T handbook for a 2015 Apache seems much the same as the 2012 document, I suggest you look in high-level cupboards/ lockers and the wardrobe, and also check low down on the front and inside of seat lockers. Logically, if A-T has fitted both switches, they ought to be reasonably accessible, not buried somewhere that needs half the motorhome to be dismantled to operate them. (Which switch are you actually trying to find - the gas operation switch, the 230V operation switch, or both switches?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frad Posted February 3, 2017 Author Share Posted February 3, 2017 Hi, I am after the electric switch I have been everywhere head in the gas oven as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Logically the switch ought to be close to the heater. As I said earlier, ours in the wardrobe , which has the fire on the front of it. PJay Is there a forum for your make of Mh? If nobody on here has the same model , who could help you (though Derek usually has the answer(or points you in the right direction)) That may have to be your next move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJay Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Frad - 2017-02-02 5:19 PM Hi I have a auto trail 364 apache, could anyone tell me where the switch is for the for the water heater. Alan If you put where you live (Area) in your profile, Maybe some-one on this forum, may live near and could perhaps look at van with you? PJay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Alan, Looking at photos of a 2012 Apache 634 the Ultrastor water heater appears to be just in front of the LH rear wheelarch, so under the front of the LH side sofa. Is this correct? If so you need to be looking either under the LH side sofa or, more likely in my opinion, in the cupboard immediately in front of the sofa. ie the cupboard between the sofa and fridge. You may need to check if it has a false bottom or back concealing the switch. Keith. PS If the heater isn't under the sofa then where is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 I have had an AT Frontier Navajo and a Savannah and there is not a local means of electrical isolation if that is what you mean. The means of isolation of the electrical supply to the water heater (in your case the ultrastore) and the wall mounted room Ultraheat space heater (with fan assisted electrical heating) is the two buttons on the Sargent EC500 panel in the high level cupboard. They are clearly marked Water Heater and Space Heater. You will also find on the rotary switch fitted above the habitation door for the Ultrastore water heater that there is a mid position on the outer ring of the rotary switch which is the off position too (but this is not an actual electrical isolation position). Our Savannah has the Truma Combi for space and water heating and the means of isolation is the same two buttons on the EC500 panel - confusingly they are still labelled Water Heater and Space Heater although the Combi does not differentiate - one circuit provides 1 kW and the other 1 kW to the Combi unit. Also I have looked everywhere and cannot find a local means of electrical isolation to our large Fridge / Freezer and the only way to isolate this is to operate the appropriate circuit MCB. For proper electrical isolation if you are working on the unit it is best to trip the No. 2 10 Amp MCB for the Space Heater and the No. 3 10 Amp MCB for the Water Heater (this is also the supply to the Fridge). Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 AlanS - 2017-02-03 9:50 PM I have had an AT Frontier Navajo and a Savannah and there is not a local means of electrical isolation if that is what you mean. Alan Alan S, It would appear you are correct! I offer my apologies to Alan F (the OP) for misleading him and doubting any previous poster who said the same. According to the Sargent Electrical Schematic for 2011 Autotrail's there is no additional isolation of the 230 V supply after the main control panel. And I would imagine a 2012 is the same. The schematic can be downloaded from the Sargent Electrical website here... https://sargentltd.co.uk/tech-support/article/Auto-Trail-Schematics/26 So if the switch on the main control panel is 'On' and the heater still does not work I think you will have to seek qualified help. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Based on Frad’s posting of 3 February 2017 2:47 PM above, he is apparently searching for the “Ultrastore”-marked switch shown in the “Switching on Electric operation” section on Page 5 of this Truma document https://www.truma.com/downloadcenter/ultrastore_rapid_installation_instruction.pdf This is the switch that turns the boiler’s 230V element on and selects whether it operates at 850W or 1300W. It’s also the switch that Auto-Trail’s handbook warns about regarding its position varying from model to model. (I hesitate to suggest this, but as it is proving so extraordinarily difficult for Frad to find this switch, is it possible that the Truma boiler in his Apache does not have the 230V option?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-02-04 10:11 AM I hesitate to suggest this, but as it is proving so extraordinarily difficult for Frad to find this switch, is it possible that the Truma boiler in his Apache does not have the 230V option? Derek, I doubt this as the AutoTrail 2011 brochure Link clearly states on page 63 that an Apache 634 has "Truma Gas/Electric Water Heater" as Standard with no other option available. And I agree that the Owners Handbook is rather poor in it's description of the Truma control. Alan (Frad) please can you post a photo of the control panel and Truma controls in your Apache for us to help you further. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frad Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 First of all thank you all who have helped with this matter, It does state in the book that there is a separate switch, however I have hunted high and low and not found one, there is a switch on the main box which is lit up and marked water heater which I take as being the isolation switch, hope so. Again thanks everyone. (next problem Sat TV).frad I live in the Stoke on Trent area if anyone is near by. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Keithl - 2017-02-04 11:24 AM Derek Uzzell - 2017-02-04 10:11 AM I hesitate to suggest this, but as it is proving so extraordinarily difficult for Frad to find this switch, is it possible that the Truma boiler in his Apache does not have the 230V option? Derek, I doubt this as the AutoTrail 2011 brochure Link clearly states on page 63 that an Apache 634 has "Truma Gas/Electric Water Heater" as Standard with no other option available. And I agree that the Owners Handbook is rather poor in it's description of the Truma control. Alan (Frad) please can you post a photo of the control panel and Truma controls in your Apache for us to help you further. Keith. I’m aware what the Auto-Trail brochures/handbooks say, and I’d be surprised (as the Apache’s specification will be heavily UK-oriented) if the Truma water-boiler fitted would be gas-only rather than the gas/230V version mentioned in the documentation. Nevertheless, if the “Ultrastore” boiler in Frad’s motorhome has 230V capability and the choice of 850W or 1300W settings, it won’t be possible to make that choice unless there’s the appropriate Truma 230V switch somewhere. Having said that, another (remote?) possibility might be that Frad’s “Ultrastore” boiler is the type that can operate on 230V but with just an 850W setting. If that were the case, the Truma switch is just an On/Off one and coud be replaced by the common-or-garden type of switch used in UK domestic applications. So Frad might be looking for an “Ultrastore”-marked switch, but there’s an ordinary household-type switch lurking somewhere that’s used to turn the boiler’s 230V element on and off. If Frad’s boiler has 230V capability, there will be a thickish 230V cable connected to it. If it’s practicable to trace the cable’s route back from the boiler, this ought to provide a clue as to where any switch might be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frad Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 How do I get photos on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frad Posted February 4, 2017 Author Share Posted February 4, 2017 Frad - 2017-02-04 3:41 PM How do I get photos on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Alan, Unfortunately it does not appear you have the full level of control of your 230 V water heating from your controls! the right hand 'Ultrastore' control only has a 'Gas' symbol and not the electrical wattage symbols I was expecting to see. Did you buy from new or second hand? If so I suggest you contact the seller (dealer or private) and ask how it works. Finally it may be worth contacting AutoTrail with your build number and ask them what it was built with. Sorry but I can't offer any more advice. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 Alan Please forget my comment about the Ultrastore control rotary switch having an inner and outer ring - I was confusing it with the Ultraheat switch. It is only just over 2 years ago since I sold my Navajo and this had the same heating and hot water set up as the Apache 634, and it took me a while to remember my controls but your photos jogged my memory. The 2 rotary switches over the habitation door are for the Ultraheat (central heating) on the left and Ultrastore (water heating) on the right. The Ultrastore one controls the gas side of the water heater only and you can vary the temperature of the water you require when on gas. For electric operation you have to push the button in marked Water Heater on the Sargent EC 500 panel in the top locker as per your photo - when pushed in the light on that button will illuminate which means that the electrical supply is now on to the water heater. There is no temperature control on electric - it just provides one high temperature only (about 60 degrees C) on its own thermostat. You won't find the word Ultrastore marked on the electrical side only the word Water Heater. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 AlanS - 2017-02-04 8:54 PM .. For electric operation you have to push the button in marked Water Heater on the Sargent EC 500 panel in the top locker as per your photo - when pushed in the light on that button will illuminate which means that the electrical supply is now on to the water heater. There is no temperature control on electric - it just provides one high temperature only (about 60 degrees C) on its own thermostat. You won't find the word Ultrastore marked on the electrical side only the word Water Heater. Alan This is essentially what I was getting at in my posting of 4 February 2017 3:14 PM above when I said: “...another (remote?) possibility might be that Frad’s “Ultrastore” boiler is the type that can operate on 230V but with just an 850W setting. If that were the case, the Truma switch is just an On/Off one and coud be replaced by the common-or-garden type of switch used in UK domestic applications. So Frad might be looking for an “Ultrastore”-marked switch, but there’s an ordinary household-type switch lurking somewhere that’s used to turn the boiler’s 230V element on and off.” From what you are saying, the functionality of the ‘domestic’ switch I referred to is performed by the Water Heater button on the EC500 unit. Auto-Trail’s Apache handbooks do say "Please note, when the water heater is used on mains the temperature is fixed to approximately 70 ° centigrade, this is not adjustable.” so it’s evident that a ‘single heat’ boiler is used. https://dealernew.truma.com/_anweisungen/Truma_Katalog/pdf_verzeichnis/70_000/70010_28500.pdf Pity though that the handbooks confuse the issue by referring to a non-existent “Ultrastore”-marked supplementary switch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frad Posted February 5, 2017 Author Share Posted February 5, 2017 Thank you Alan and Dereck and everyone else save's me searching any more. alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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