Wortho Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Hi Folks, We are in the process of purchasing a 2015 FIAT Ducato 130 Multijet (LHD) motorhome (7000 miles) in the UK but are concerned about a noise that appears to be coming from the clutch or gearbox when the clutch is released. please see https://goo.gl/photos/tUahmPLFMRXACGK78 The current owner has taken the vehicle to a FIAT authorised garage but they advised that the noise is expected for a commercial vehicle and not unusual. The vehicle is still under warranty but by the time we purchase it the warranty will have expired so we are concerned that this noise may not be normal and could result in gearbox issues out of warranty. We would appreciate if any Ducato owners can comment if this noise is 'normal' for this model as we would rather have it sorted before the warranty has expired if the noise is not considered to be normal. Best Regards Wortho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryrj Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I would not expect to hear any noise related to the operation of the clutch in any vehicle. If it's noisy it has a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Do I understand correctly that you are refering to noise when the clutch pedal is pressed to release the clutch. If yes I would suspect premature failure of the clutch release bearing, but it does seem very early for this to occur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 To take it a stage further there should not be any noise from the gearbox when the clutch pedal is pressed, as in this condition with the vehicle stationary, nothing should be moving in the gearbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 It's difficult to say without hearing the noise(s) that you are describing. Ducato gearboxes are by no means silent and often make quite a racket when reversing. You will notice a whirring noise when idling out of gear that may become quieter when the clutch is depressed. This is normally no problem and the same goes for a rhythmic feint knocking from within the box as well (which you will only normally hear with your head underneath the vehicle) and which is also no cause for alarm. As a rule; anything that sounds loud enough to hear from above, with the bonnet closed or is irregular (not necessarily on every revolution of the engine) could indicate a potential problem. In fairness though; i have only had one gearbox fault on a post 2011 Ducato and it was not a complete failure. My vans cover 200,000 miles before i sell them on most of the time. Between 2007 and 2009 we had a couple that needed new syncromeshes. 2002 to 2006 vehicles were much less reliable. Our vans are fully loaded for only the first half of each day and motorhomes, while driven more gently (generally) are typically close to their maximum weight most of the time. This will affect the rate of wear but if ours can do 200,000 miles without any problems; motorhomes at or under 3500Kg should be good for 75,000 at least! If it's a 5000Kg conversion; all bets are off. The best thing to do is to compare it with a vehicle of a similar age because these things are very subjective. If the vehicle in question seems noisier than any other; walk away. There seems to be plenty out there to choose from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 I should also add that these vehicles have a concentric slave cylinder and not a thrust release bearing. Slave cylinders are hydraulically operated and in this case are fitted to the clutch cover before the gearbox is fitted. If one fails, the gearbox has to come off. This is very common practice on all vehicles these days. Any rattling noise coming from the clutch is normally the fins on the clutch cover or the springs on the clutch plate. Some are better located than others. It does not necessarily lead to early failure. There is always going to be a trade off between heavy duty and refinement. We can't all be the strong silent type! N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Thankyou for the detailed reply and you are correct that the noise is not apparent when the clutch is depressed. I posted a link to a video/audio clip of the noise appearing when the clutch is released above, hopefully you are able to access the link but if not I can try again. The owner also advised the noise is only really noticable when the window is down or door open. Many thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 We had a noise which I thought was clutch related and had it checked twice by an excellent Fiat Pro service centre. When I was at idle in neutral I could hear a slight ticking noise but If I depressed the clutch the noise would go away. On the first visit no-one could hear it but on my second visit to HTC at Reading the technician said he could hear it too, put it up on ramps and took oil samples from the gear box - net result was that it was a gearbox problem. Fiat sent a new gear box over from Ital and problem solved. You can see my posting on my problem as follows:- http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Nick-Euroserv-your-thoughts-please/38762/ We have been out today on a 260 mile trip in our MH and the gearbox is 'sweet' and no more noise. The slight stiffness in the gear shift that I experienced after the new box was fitted has disappeared - so good to go for our trip to Italy. I couldn't fault both Fiat or my service centre for their help as the work was approved and new gearbox ordered on the same day, the gearbox delivered and fitted after a week. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 2, 2017 Author Share Posted March 2, 2017 Thankyou Alan, I had come across your previous thread in the past and must admit it made me nervous as we won't have any warranty to fall back on. Are you able to view the video/audio clip I posted above as I am curious if this noise was similar to what you experienced.Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted March 2, 2017 Share Posted March 2, 2017 Mine makes a similar noise, and is only noticeable if the window is open during a low speed manoeuvre. I've had mine checked, and there appears to be no obvious issue. I thought mine was the aircon or fan kicking in at first. I would describe it as a mild clunk when lifting off the pedal. I'm more concerned about the noise I get when revving the engine since a recent cambelt change - going back to the garage to be checked next week...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Wortho, My view on this would be that if you are worried about it now, before buying, then it will always play on your mind and you will be thinking 'is it going to fail'. My suggestions are to get an independent assessment before you buy, possibly from the AA, RAC or another Fiat garage. Or, take out an independent warranty (basically an insurance policy) but make especially certain it would cover the failure as you have a 'pre existing condition' and also often items like clutches are excluded due to wear and tear. Failing this get a typical quote to get the gearbox replaced and ask the seller to drop the price by this amount, you would then have the money in the bank in case it failed. My final answer would be if you are still uncertain then WALK AWAY! There will always be another. Just my opinions you appreciate. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bop Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Wortho - 2017-03-02 10:21 PM Thankyou Alan, I had come across your previous thread in the past and must admit it made me nervous as we won't have any warranty to fall back on. Are you able to view the video/audio clip I posted above as I am curious if this noise was similar to what you experienced.Thanks Morning Wortho, A quick question - Did the current owners take it to Fiat as a consequence of your concerns or did they do it prior to you enquiring about the van, i.e. Was it already an ongoing concern of theirs? Im with Keith on this one. The best position for you is when you haven't parted with your cash and you're free to settle on something that you will be happy with. Good luck, Andrew Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Hi again Wortho, I have just listened to your video and I think that is more likely gearbox noise than clutch. A question, why is the current owner selling? A genuine reason or some hard to believe story? I would be very wary. I also note it is LHD, do you specifically want LHD or is this just a good deal? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanS Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Wortho - 2017-03-02 10:21 PM Thankyou Alan, I had come across your previous thread in the past and must admit it made me nervous as we won't have any warranty to fall back on. Are you able to view the video/audio clip I posted above as I am curious if this noise was similar to what you experienced.Thanks Wortho I have had a listen to your video and think that the noise is similar to what I experienced. It was annoying me so much (although my wife couldn't hear it, but then again...) that I had to put my foot on the clutch to 'stop' the noise, especially when I was sitting in a queue of traffic in neutral. On the move of course I couldn't hear it above the normal engine noise. When I left the engine running in neutral and got out of the cab the noise was pronounced by the nearside wheel arch - so have a listen at that point. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 4, 2017 Author Share Posted March 4, 2017 Thanks again for all the responses folks. The current owner has been very honest and is selling because the van is no longer big enough as they have a new addition to the family. He had intended to get the noise checked out even if he did not sell. The problem is the FIAT Pro dealer has told him the noise is normal as its a commercial vehicle but it sounds like from what most of you are saying its not normal and could therefore be a problem for us down the track with no warranty. Hmmm will have to have a serious think about this. The van suits us as a LHD as we intend to import it into Sweden for travel in Europe. The currency exchange rates are also quite favourable for us at the moment so thats another reason for buying in the UK as the same van in Sweden would be around 20% more expensive. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 Agree, it's sometimes difficult to purchase a LHD UK vehicle, unless it's a Hymer. Bearing in mind your complications, wouldn't in be easier (and possibly cheaper) to purchase a LHD vehicle in Germany and export directly to Sweden? I assume you have Swedish residence/property. There are many German dealers of new and secondhand vehicles who deal frequently with people from Scandinavian countries. I bought a Hymer from such a dealer in northern Germany. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 5, 2017 Author Share Posted March 5, 2017 Thanks Robbo, We started out looking on mobile.de but then found this one in the UK and it was exactly what we were after. Might have to go back to the Germany option though if it doesn't work out so any recommendations on a German dealer would be appreciated. Preferably one that speaks English ; ) I'm living in Australia right now but have family in Sweden so thats where the van will be based. Cheers Wortho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeteH Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Hi I was given to understand that Fiat had sorted the issues with 6 speed boxes from 2008 onwards?. The Op`s "noise" on the face of it sounds like a typical failing Clutch thrust bearing. Replacement of which I am assured, by a dealer mechanic, is a full (expensive) "Clutch Pack". (no option to just do the bearing). HOWEVER; the OP may wish to look at this Thread (amongst others) which gives an insight into the issues surrounding the 6 speed boxes in the recent past, my own was a complete gearbox rebuild at the 3rd attempt. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Reverse-judder-clutch-problem-all-Sevel-models-/33863/ Pete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted March 5, 2017 Share Posted March 5, 2017 Wortho - 2017-03-05 3:06 AM Thanks Robbo, We started out looking on mobile.de but then found this one in the UK and it was exactly what we were after. Might have to go back to the Germany option though if it doesn't work out so any recommendations on a German dealer would be appreciated. Preferably one that speaks English ; ) I'm living in Australia right now but have family in Sweden so thats where the van will be based. Cheers Wortho Hi Wortho, you certainly get about a bit !!! I bought my Hymer (new) from Palmowski, Bielefeld Germany. For export services see http://www.palmo.de/service/weiteres/export-infos/. They speak very good English. A friend of mine also dealt with Durrwang, Dortmund where he part exchanged his LHD Hymer for a new one. For export services see https://www.duerrwang.de/export_sales.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Thanks PeteH I sent the video to a Gearbox specialist that does a lot of FIAT boxes for their opinion and they said the following; When the clutch is depressed with the engine running in neutral there shouldn’t be any noise from the gearbox as there is nothing moving inside it, when the clutch is lifted , if you can hear a noise then, then its on the Lay gear - input shaft & common for that type of gearbox as in it shouldn’t be there. . haven’t heard of one failing that early but they can go @ 10k Miles to 15k having watched the short clip I think the reverse gear & laygear are damaged hence the noise on this occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 6, 2017 Author Share Posted March 6, 2017 Thanks for the links Robbo I will check them out. Am I right in assuming you have to pay 19% tax on a new vehicle purchased in Germany and then claim it back once you import it into another country? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevina Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Hi Wortho I have a similar noise on my 2008 van but it is only noticeable when the vehicle has been driven for over 30 minutes. Please could you give details of the specialist that you mentioned. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Wortho - 2017-03-06 8:32 AM Thanks for the links Robbo I will check them out. Am I right in assuming you have to pay 19% tax on a new vehicle purchased in Germany and then claim it back once you import it into another country? That's correct. When I imported to UK, I applied for registration and paid the UK vat. Then sent copy of VAT payment receipt to the German dealer and the German vat was reimbursed very quickly. I believe you can now obtain a preliminary document from DVLA showing the vat payable and this should enable the dealer to reimburse the German vat, before having to pay the UK vat. For the importation of secondhand vehicles (more than 6 months old and 6000km) different rules apply where I believe no vat is payable. I guess the same basic rules would apply exporting to Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 For the importation of secondhand vehicles (more than 6 months old and 6000km) different rules apply where I believe no vat is payable. I guess the same basic rules would apply exporting to Sweden. Thanks Robbo, And yes it appears to be the same for Sweden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wortho Posted March 7, 2017 Author Share Posted March 7, 2017 kevina - 2017-03-06 8:19 PM Please could you give details of the specialist that you mentioned. Thanks Hi Kevin, I sent you a PM with the details but it's stuck in the outbox for some reason. Maybe try and PM me and I will try to reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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