Bye Bye Wilders

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:06 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 3:29 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 11:47 AM

 

Ding-a-ling ... Wake up ... Are you really claiming the beautiful Marine Le Pen is polling less now than a year ago ????

 

"Beautiful" ???? 8-)8-) :-S

 

Nah .......she's got an ugly mush and looks dog rough for 48.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well if the Islamification of France continues she'll prolly have to cover up head to toe to hide her ugly mush like the rest of the women or get stoned to death for not doing so.

 

At least it would spare us all from her ugliness. She probably already wears one of these.

 

 

 

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 8:27 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:06 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 3:29 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 11:47 AM

 

Ding-a-ling ... Wake up ... Are you really claiming the beautiful Marine Le Pen is polling less now than a year ago ????

 

"Beautiful" ???? 8-)8-) :-S

 

Nah .......she's got an ugly mush and looks dog rough for 48.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well if the Islamification of France continues she'll prolly have to cover up head to toe to hide her ugly mush like the rest of the women or get stoned to death for not doing so.

 

At least it would spare us all from her ugliness. She probably already wears one of these.

 

 

 

 

Wow ... Not only do Muslims and Klan members both have racist , bigoted , outdated views but they also dress the same ... Just two peepholes on show ... Amazing how similar they are although I think the Klan has stopped murdering innocent people now , not sure about Muslims

[Guest pelmetman]

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 8:27 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:06 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 3:29 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 11:47 AM

 

Ding-a-ling ... Wake up ... Are you really claiming the beautiful Marine Le Pen is polling less now than a year ago ????

 

"Beautiful" ???? 8-)8-) :-S

 

Nah .......she's got an ugly mush and looks dog rough for 48.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well if the Islamification of France continues she'll prolly have to cover up head to toe to hide her ugly mush like the rest of the women or get stoned to death for not doing so.

 

At least it would spare us all from her ugliness. She probably already wears one of these.

 

 

 

 

Wow ... Not only do Muslims and Klan members both have racist , bigoted , outdated views but they also dress the same ... Just two peepholes on show ... Amazing how similar they are although I think the Klan has stopped murdering innocent people now , not sure about Muslims

 

When was the last time a Klan member carried out a terrorist attack? :-S ........Where as a Islam believer carried one out......erm.....today *-) ......

 

 

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2017-03-18 8:44 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 8:27 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:06 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 3:29 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 11:47 AM

 

Ding-a-ling ... Wake up ... Are you really claiming the beautiful Marine Le Pen is polling less now than a year ago ????

 

"Beautiful" ???? 8-)8-) :-S

 

Nah .......she's got an ugly mush and looks dog rough for 48.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well if the Islamification of France continues she'll prolly have to cover up head to toe to hide her ugly mush like the rest of the women or get stoned to death for not doing so.

 

At least it would spare us all from her ugliness. She probably already wears one of these.

 

 

 

 

Wow ... Not only do Muslims and Klan members both have racist , bigoted , outdated views but they also dress the same ... Just two peepholes on show ... Amazing how similar they are although I think the Klan has stopped murdering innocent people now , not sure about Muslims

 

When was the last time a Klan member carried out a terrorist attack? :-S ........Where as a Islam believer carried one out......erm.....today *-) ......

 

 

Bit harsh Dave ... Reading this I think he'd prolly been led astray a little thats all ... http://www.france24.com/en/20170318-paris-prosecutor-says-treating-orly-airport-attack-terrorism

[RogerC]

No one as far as I know is stuck in the dark ages.  My point is that despite the best intentions of those who would welcome all and sundry with open arms it simply is not a practical approach in terms of industry, society or infrastructure.  Neither is it fair on the country being left without essential skills because they are all over here chasing better money.  Poland is a prime example of that suffering when the flood gates opened.

The 'Communism doesn't work' comment was simply that.  I was calling no one a communist merely using it as an example of 'one size fits all in terms of movement and getting a job'......it doesn't work.   To look upon Europe with it's diverse society, cultures and languages as well as divergent monetary policy and standards of living as one big melting pot of 'We are all Europeans, all equal and free to move around as we please' just doesn't work.  It is a close similarity to pure communism which whilst in concept is a good idea in practice it can not work.  Fiscal and cultural, (despite your 'Congo tribe' comment....could be construed as very racist) social standards etc and the divergence across the member countries immediately puts the free movement of inhabitants into question.  Look at Hungary for example......chain link, square section and razor wire fences?  Hardly coincides with what those clamouring for freedom of movement and compassionate behaviour towards refugees want does it?....yet there are many who decry the UK for it's stance towards those who would get here irrespective of 'rights'.  Hungary population is 9.8 million with a density of 108 per sq km.  Germany population 81 million....density 229, France population 66 million, density 111.  The UK in comparison is 65.4 million and a density of 413 people per sq km.  The MOST overcrowded country in Europe and the 53 out of 241 world wide and people can not see that we are not bursting at the seams....the seams are starting to split.

With regard to free movement.  My point is that we need to control the numbers of migrants from within and without the EU.  We are an Island with specific economic, sociological and infrastructure requirements which at present we can not, because of EU regulations, meet from without the EU.  Therefore in reality the EU is, by virtue of it's own policy, guilty of a form of racism because member countries 'must' abide by EU law which determines that all but EU nationals, Swiss nationals and a few other exceptions can not partake of free movement and must have a work permit if they intend to take paid employment.  This is one of the ongoing problems the UK has been trying to resolve as it is hindered by EU law from pursuing specialist attributes/qualified persons from elsewhere outside of the EU.  Essentially what this country needs is a system of filtering the same as Australia, NZ, Canada, USA even the Isle of Man etc whereby workers admitted have jobs to go, job sponsors, that have hitherto been advertised/promoted within the UK first for a predetermined period.  And with regard to those countries I have yet to hear them called the equivalent of 'little Englanders'....'Little Auzzies'....'Little Kiwis'....Little Canadians'....'Little Indians'....'Little Pakistanis' etc doesn't quite have the same sting of disgust as 'little Englander' does but then those countries inhabitants seem not to have a tendency towards decrying their countries at every given opportunity.

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 8:27 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:06 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 3:29 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 11:47 AM

 

Ding-a-ling ... Wake up ... Are you really claiming the beautiful Marine Le Pen is polling less now than a year ago ????

 

"Beautiful" ???? 8-)8-) :-S

 

Nah .......she's got an ugly mush and looks dog rough for 48.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well if the Islamification of France continues she'll prolly have to cover up head to toe to hide her ugly mush like the rest of the women or get stoned to death for not doing so.

 

At least it would spare us all from her ugliness. She probably already wears one of these.

 

 

 

 

Wow ... Not only do Muslims and Klan members both have racist , bigoted , outdated views but they also dress the same ... Just two peepholes on show ... Amazing how similar they are although I think the Klan has stopped murdering innocent people now , not sure about Muslims.

 

No, they just turn on their own instead. Wife did the Wizard in.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/02/13/kkk-imperial-wizard-found-shot-dead-mo-river-bank/97842832/

 

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-18 8:44 PM

 

When was the last time a Klan member carried out a terrorist attack? :-S ........Where as a Islam believer carried one out......erm.....today *-) ......

Last month, February 11th to be precise but that wasn't an attack......it was a murder.

 

No idea wtf Islam has to do with the KKK.........oh yeah of course, you and that t'other parrot just GOT to shoehorn them mooslims in somewhere. *-)

 

Have you gaffa taped that mobile sauna tub of yours back together yet? That should keep you occupied for a bit.

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 11:16 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 8:27 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 8:06 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 3:29 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-18 11:47 AM

 

Ding-a-ling ... Wake up ... Are you really claiming the beautiful Marine Le Pen is polling less now than a year ago ????

 

"Beautiful" ???? 8-)8-) :-S

 

Nah .......she's got an ugly mush and looks dog rough for 48.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ah well if the Islamification of France continues she'll prolly have to cover up head to toe to hide her ugly mush like the rest of the women or get stoned to death for not doing so.

 

At least it would spare us all from her ugliness. She probably already wears one of these.

 

 

 

 

Wow ... Not only do Muslims and Klan members both have racist , bigoted , outdated views but they also dress the same ... Just two peepholes on show ... Amazing how similar they are although I think the Klan has stopped murdering innocent people now , not sure about Muslims.

 

No, they just turn on their own instead. Wife did the Wizard in.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/02/13/kkk-imperial-wizard-found-shot-dead-mo-river-bank/97842832/

 

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-18 8:44 PM

 

When was the last time a Klan member carried out a terrorist attack? :-S ........Where as a Islam believer carried one out......erm.....today *-) ......

Last month, February 11th to be precise but that wasn't an attack......it was a murder.

 

No idea wtf Islam has to do with the KKK.........oh yeah of course, you and that t'other parrot just GOT to shoehorn them mooslims in somewhere. *-)

 

Have you gaffa taped that mobile sauna tub of yours back together yet? That should keep you occupied for a bit.

 

Clutching at straws springs to mind ... "No idea wtf Islam has to do with the KKK" ??? ... Looks like the same covered dress code to me and pure vile hatred for anyone who doesn't share their views for starters ... Actually disregard the dress code bit ( or maybe not ) and the same could be said for you

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 11:16 PM

 

 

No idea wtf Islam has to do with the KKK.........

 

 

Short term memory issues BG?........You introduced them into the thread ;-) ........

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 8:27 PM

 

 

 

 

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-03-18 9:02 PM

No one as far as I know is stuck in the dark ages.  My point is that despite the best intentions of those who would welcome all and sundry with open arms it simply is not a practical approach in terms of industry, society or infrastructure.  Neither is it fair on the country being left without essential skills because they are all over here chasing better money.  Poland is a prime example of that suffering when the flood gates opened.

The 'Communism doesn't work' comment was simply that.  I was calling no one a communist merely using it as an example of 'one size fits all in terms of movement and getting a job'......it doesn't work.   To look upon Europe with it's diverse society, cultures and languages as well as divergent monetary policy and standards of living as one big melting pot of 'We are all Europeans, all equal and free to move around as we please' just doesn't work.  It is a close similarity to pure communism which whilst in concept is a good idea in practice it can not work.  Fiscal and cultural, (despite your 'Congo tribe' comment....could be construed as very racist) social standards etc and the divergence across the member countries immediately puts the free movement of inhabitants into question.  Look at Hungary for example......chain link, square section and razor wire fences?  Hardly coincides with what those clamouring for freedom of movement and compassionate behaviour towards refugees want does it?....yet there are many who decry the UK for it's stance towards those who would get here irrespective of 'rights'.  Hungary population is 9.8 million with a density of 108 per sq km.  Germany population 81 million....density 229, France population 66 million, density 111.  The UK in comparison is 65.4 million and a density of 413 people per sq km.  The MOST overcrowded country in Europe and the 53 out of 241 world wide and people can not see that we are not bursting at the seams....the seams are starting to split.

With regard to free movement.  My point is that we need to control the numbers of migrants from within and without the EU.  We are an Island with specific economic, sociological and infrastructure requirements which at present we can not, because of EU regulations, meet from without the EU.  Therefore in reality the EU is, by virtue of it's own policy, guilty of a form of racism because member countries 'must' abide by EU law which determines that all but EU nationals, Swiss nationals and a few other exceptions can not partake of free movement and must have a work permit if they intend to take paid employment.  This is one of the ongoing problems the UK has been trying to resolve as it is hindered by EU law from pursuing specialist attributes/qualified persons from elsewhere outside of the EU.  Essentially what this country needs is a system of filtering the same as Australia, NZ, Canada, USA even the Isle of Man etc whereby workers admitted have jobs to go, job sponsors, that have hitherto been advertised/promoted within the UK first for a predetermined period.  And with regard to those countries I have yet to hear them called the equivalent of 'little Englanders'....'Little Auzzies'....'Little Kiwis'....Little Canadians'....'Little Indians'....'Little Pakistanis' etc doesn't quite have the same sting of disgust as 'little Englander' does but then those countries inhabitants seem not to have a tendency towards decrying their countries at every given opportunity.

Where on earth did you drag that lot up from? I dont really understand it though. Are you saying the EU stops us from recruiting from outside of the EU? As far as I know we have always been able to dictate who comes and goes from OUTSIDE of the EU but yes they have to have work permits but the EU does not stop them coming. Are you trying to say that if we leave the EU it will make it easier for none EU Immigrants to come here? Your going to have to explain it better for me sorry.At least you recognise that we need immigrants (I think) and it seems you would prefer them to be from outside of the EU not within for some reason.Confused.

[antony1969]

pelmetman - 2017-03-19 8:26 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 11:16 PM

 

 

No idea wtf Islam has to do with the KKK.........

 

 

Short term memory issues BG?........You introduced them into the thread ;-) ........

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-18 8:27 PM

 

 

 

 

Maybe just for Bullet we need to call Muslims sumat else ... We are The Dynamic Duo according to Bullet after all ... Wehttps://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7OQublXgAInYgx.jpg:large

[RogerC]

Where on earth did you drag that lot up from? I don't really understand it though. Are you saying the EU stops us from recruiting from outside of the EU? As far as I know we have always been able to dictate who comes and goes from OUTSIDE of the EU but yes they have to have work permits but the EU does not stop them coming. Are you trying to say that if we leave the EU it will make it easier for none EU Immigrants to come here? Your going to have to explain it better for me sorry. 

At least you recognise that we need immigrants (I think) and it seems you would prefer them to be from outside of the EU not within for some reason.

Quite simply most of my information came from existing knowledge and a little research.

To make things easier to digest.  The UK is the most densly populated of all EU countries and is 53 out of 241 countries world wide.  Essentially....we are overflowing....the seams (education places, housing, NHS, doctors appointments etc) are bursting.

Financial/fiscal equality is not achievable across the EU therefore those chasing money will be forever on the move....poorer areas to more affluent ones hence the now recognised global issues in worker remuneration causing the almost permanent, albeit slow, shift of work from country to country.  For example Chinese workers became more affluent on the back of their economic boom so inflation caused increased wage demands etc etc.  Now those workers are out of work because their jobs have been moved to Vietnam where overheads are cheaper......and so the circle turns.  Therefore the freedom of movement within the EU countries is seeing skills migrate to where the money is leaving 'home countries' (Hungary/Poland and others) with skills shortages which raises costs of those remaining(if any), makes the socio/economic standards of the poorer country even worse and because of the numbers migrating (too many too quickly) has a socio/economic effect (some good and some undesirable) on the destination country.

Therefore controlled migration as is practised by those countries I mentioned (Oz, NZ, Canada etc) is IMO the fairest way of dealing with skills requirements for both the migrants home country and their destination country.  A spin off is that if 'imported' skills are controlled then it should become incumbent on the 'home' country to improve it's own home skills base negating the need for high numbers of immigrant workers.  However as has always been the case no one country has ever had the perfect skill/population balance therefore migration was and clearly always be necessary.....but managed/controlled not a free for all as the EU is practising.

P.S.

I read you are happy with the rules regarding non EU citizens entry into the UK or indeed the EU making them 'jump through hoops' to gain entry.  Surely that is discriminating against them?  Taken to it's ultimate conclusion why is it that those individuals/organisations that are damning the UK for it's stance against the unfettered movement of potentially 700,000,000 EU citizens are not similarly up in arms over the 'hoop jumping' requirements imposed on the other 7,000,000,000 (and counting) inhabitants of our planet?   Or is it OK to be 'selective' as to who can roam ones 'club' because if it is that is discrimination??

The bottom line is that unfettered freedom of movement is not something that modern society, or indeed any society can sustain without serious socio/economic issues arising therefore IMO the EU 'wander at will' policy is sorely misguided.

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 7:36 AM

 

Clutching at straws springs to mind ...

No straws to clutch. Wife shot her Wizard dead.

 

"No idea wtf Islam has to do with the KKK" ??? ... Looks like the same covered dress code to me and pure vile hatred for anyone who doesn't share their views for starters ...

You're back to your silly self again here Antony perpetuating the ridiculous notion of any women wearing Islamic dress being "haters".

 

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-19 8:26 AM

 

Short term memory issues BG?........You introduced them into the thread ;-) ........

"Them".....who tf is "them"? :-S

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-19 5:05 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 7:36 AM

 

Clutching at straws springs to mind ...

No straws to clutch. Wife shot her Wizard dead.

 

"No idea wtf Islam has to do with the KKK" ??? ... Looks like the same covered dress code to me and pure vile hatred for anyone who doesn't share their views for starters ...

You're back to your silly self again here Antony perpetuating the ridiculous notion of any women wearing Islamic dress being "haters".

 

 

 

pelmetman - 2017-03-19 8:26 AM

 

Short term memory issues BG?........You introduced them into the thread ;-) ........

"Them".....who tf is "them"? :-S

 

We aren't just on about Islamic dress are we ... We are on about the full tent with peepholes as you know ... Are you saying the full tent is a sign of inclusiveness , tolerance and womens rights rather than some form of hatred ???

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 5:18 PM

 

We aren't just on about Islamic dress are we ... We are on about the full tent with peepholes as you know ... Are you saying the full tent is a sign of inclusiveness , tolerance and womens rights rather than some form of hatred ??

KKK is a white supremacist group that dress up in "tents with peepholes" as you aptly describe them. Their message is hate, discrimination, intolerance and exclusiveness (you won't find any black members). You make sweeping generalisations about women wearing Islamic dress which is so far off the mark.There are many Muslim women who don't wear any Islamic style dress at all.

 

Pity you refused to watch that documentary about British Muslims as you'd have learnt a lot.

 

 

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-19 5:37 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 5:18 PM

 

We aren't just on about Islamic dress are we ... We are on about the full tent with peepholes as you know ... Are you saying the full tent is a sign of inclusiveness , tolerance and womens rights rather than some form of hatred ??

KKK is a white supremacist group that dress up in "tents with peepholes" as you aptly describe them. Their message is hate, discrimination, intolerance and exclusiveness (you won't find any black members). You make sweeping generalisations about women wearing Islamic dress which is so far off the mark.There are many Muslim women who don't wear any Islamic style dress at all.

 

Pity you refused to watch that documentary about British Muslims as you'd have learnt a lot.

 

 

Really .... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2828425/The-Ku-Klux-Klan-opens-door-Jews-black-people-homosexuals-new-recruits-wear-white-robes-hats.html

This is a good example of your Muslim inclusive world Bullet ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39264349

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 5:43 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-19 5:37 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 5:18 PM

 

We aren't just on about Islamic dress are we ... We are on about the full tent with peepholes as you know ... Are you saying the full tent is a sign of inclusiveness , tolerance and womens rights rather than some form of hatred ??

KKK is a white supremacist group that dress up in "tents with peepholes" as you aptly describe them. Their message is hate, discrimination, intolerance and exclusiveness (you won't find any black members). You make sweeping generalisations about women wearing Islamic dress which is so far off the mark.There are many Muslim women who don't wear any Islamic style dress at all.

 

Pity you refused to watch that documentary about British Muslims as you'd have learnt a lot.

 

 

Really .... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2828425/The-Ku-Klux-Klan-opens-door-Jews-black-people-homosexuals-new-recruits-wear-white-robes-hats.html

This is a good example of your Muslim inclusive world Bullet ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39264349

 

Couldn't see any black hands in that Fail link......funny that. They could at least made an attempt to photoshop a few in. Perhaps they couldn't find any. :-S

 

This man had enough of the KKK........and turned to Islam instead. https://www.soundvision.com/article/interview-with-an-ex-racist-from-the-kkk-to-islam

[antony1969]

Bulletguy - 2017-03-19 5:58 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 5:43 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-03-19 5:37 PM

 

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 5:18 PM

 

We aren't just on about Islamic dress are we ... We are on about the full tent with peepholes as you know ... Are you saying the full tent is a sign of inclusiveness , tolerance and womens rights rather than some form of hatred ??

KKK is a white supremacist group that dress up in "tents with peepholes" as you aptly describe them. Their message is hate, discrimination, intolerance and exclusiveness (you won't find any black members). You make sweeping generalisations about women wearing Islamic dress which is so far off the mark.There are many Muslim women who don't wear any Islamic style dress at all.

 

Pity you refused to watch that documentary about British Muslims as you'd have learnt a lot.

 

 

Really .... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2828425/The-Ku-Klux-Klan-opens-door-Jews-black-people-homosexuals-new-recruits-wear-white-robes-hats.html

This is a good example of your Muslim inclusive world Bullet ... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-39264349

 

Couldn't see any black hands in that Fail link......funny that. They could at least made an attempt to photoshop a few in. Perhaps they couldn't find any. :-S

 

This man had enough of the KKK........and turned to Islam instead. https://www.soundvision.com/article/interview-with-an-ex-racist-from-the-kkk-to-islam

 

Truth it hurt dunit Bullet ... Your link to that Muslim site could be a conversation with Mickey Mouse or Spock or anyone ... Proof to back up who this supposed KKK member might be would be good ... I'll wait for it

[Barryd999]

RogerC - 2017-03-19 12:38 PM

Where on earth did you drag that lot up from? I don't really understand it though. Are you saying the EU stops us from recruiting from outside of the EU? As far as I know we have always been able to dictate who comes and goes from OUTSIDE of the EU but yes they have to have work permits but the EU does not stop them coming. Are you trying to say that if we leave the EU it will make it easier for none EU Immigrants to come here? Your going to have to explain it better for me sorry. 

At least you recognise that we need immigrants (I think) and it seems you would prefer them to be from outside of the EU not within for some reason.

Quite simply most of my information came from existing knowledge and a little research.

To make things easier to digest.  The UK is the most densly populated of all EU countries and is 53 out of 241 countries world wide.  Essentially....we are overflowing....the seams (education places, housing, NHS, doctors appointments etc) are bursting.

Financial/fiscal equality is not achievable across the EU therefore those chasing money will be forever on the move....poorer areas to more affluent ones hence the now recognised global issues in worker remuneration causing the almost permanent, albeit slow, shift of work from country to country.  For example Chinese workers became more affluent on the back of their economic boom so inflation caused increased wage demands etc etc.  Now those workers are out of work because their jobs have been moved to Vietnam where overheads are cheaper......and so the circle turns.  Therefore the freedom of movement within the EU countries is seeing skills migrate to where the money is leaving 'home countries' (Hungary/Poland and others) with skills shortages which raises costs of those remaining(if any), makes the socio/economic standards of the poorer country even worse and because of the numbers migrating (too many too quickly) has a socio/economic effect (some good and some undesirable) on the destination country.

Therefore controlled migration as is practised by those countries I mentioned (Oz, NZ, Canada etc) is IMO the fairest way of dealing with skills requirements for both the migrants home country and their destination country.  A spin off is that if 'imported' skills are controlled then it should become incumbent on the 'home' country to improve it's own home skills base negating the need for high numbers of immigrant workers.  However as has always been the case no one country has ever had the perfect skill/population balance therefore migration was and clearly always be necessary.....but managed/controlled not a free for all as the EU is practising.

P.S.

 

 

I read you are happy with the rules regarding non EU citizens entry into the UK or indeed the EU making them 'jump through hoops' to gain entry.  Surely that is discriminating against them?  Taken to it's ultimate conclusion why is it that those individuals/organisations that are damning the UK for it's stance against the unfettered movement of potentially 700,000,000 EU citizens are not similarly up in arms over the 'hoop jumping' requirements imposed on the other 7,000,000,000 (and counting) inhabitants of our planet?   Or is it OK to be 'selective' as to who can roam ones 'club' because if it is that is discrimination??

The bottom line is that unfettered freedom of movement is not something that modern society, or indeed any society can sustain without serious socio/economic issues arising therefore IMO the EU 'wander at will' policy is sorely misguided.

I dont necessarily agree with your view point as I would like to see evidence that these countries in Europe are being deprived of key skills (no Mail links please) because of free movement. Its not perfect but it works but maybe needs some reform. As for training up our own to do the jobs the immigrants do you should read Brians excellent post here. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/Happy-E-days-are-here-again-/46591/31/We cant do that as we simply do not have enough people. The immigrants we have we simply cannot do without (Well most of them anyway). So if our EU immigrants go I take it your happy to recruit from Asia and Africa then.You see we can never control immigration, it controls us. Supply and demand.

[antony1969]

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 6:08 PM

RogerC - 2017-03-19 12:38 PM

Where on earth did you drag that lot up from? I don't really understand it though. Are you saying the EU stops us from recruiting from outside of the EU? As far as I know we have always been able to dictate who comes and goes from OUTSIDE of the EU but yes they have to have work permits but the EU does not stop them coming. Are you trying to say that if we leave the EU it will make it easier for none EU Immigrants to come here? Your going to have to explain it better for me sorry. 

At least you recognise that we need immigrants (I think) and it seems you would prefer them to be from outside of the EU not within for some reason.

Quite simply most of my information came from existing knowledge and a little research.

To make things easier to digest.  The UK is the most densly populated of all EU countries and is 53 out of 241 countries world wide.  Essentially....we are overflowing....the seams (education places, housing, NHS, doctors appointments etc) are bursting.

Financial/fiscal equality is not achievable across the EU therefore those chasing money will be forever on the move....poorer areas to more affluent ones hence the now recognised global issues in worker remuneration causing the almost permanent, albeit slow, shift of work from country to country.  For example Chinese workers became more affluent on the back of their economic boom so inflation caused increased wage demands etc etc.  Now those workers are out of work because their jobs have been moved to Vietnam where overheads are cheaper......and so the circle turns.  Therefore the freedom of movement within the EU countries is seeing skills migrate to where the money is leaving 'home countries' (Hungary/Poland and others) with skills shortages which raises costs of those remaining(if any), makes the socio/economic standards of the poorer country even worse and because of the numbers migrating (too many too quickly) has a socio/economic effect (some good and some undesirable) on the destination country.

Therefore controlled migration as is practised by those countries I mentioned (Oz, NZ, Canada etc) is IMO the fairest way of dealing with skills requirements for both the migrants home country and their destination country.  A spin off is that if 'imported' skills are controlled then it should become incumbent on the 'home' country to improve it's own home skills base negating the need for high numbers of immigrant workers.  However as has always been the case no one country has ever had the perfect skill/population balance therefore migration was and clearly always be necessary.....but managed/controlled not a free for all as the EU is practising.

P.S.

 

 

I read you are happy with the rules regarding non EU citizens entry into the UK or indeed the EU making them 'jump through hoops' to gain entry.  Surely that is discriminating against them?  Taken to it's ultimate conclusion why is it that those individuals/organisations that are damning the UK for it's stance against the unfettered movement of potentially 700,000,000 EU citizens are not similarly up in arms over the 'hoop jumping' requirements imposed on the other 7,000,000,000 (and counting) inhabitants of our planet?   Or is it OK to be 'selective' as to who can roam ones 'club' because if it is that is discrimination??

The bottom line is that unfettered freedom of movement is not something that modern society, or indeed any society can sustain without serious socio/economic issues arising therefore IMO the EU 'wander at will' policy is sorely misguided.

I dont necessarily agree with your view point as I would like to see evidence that these countries in Europe are being deprived of key skills (no Mail links please) because of free movement. Its not perfect but it works but maybe needs some reform. As for training up our own to do the jobs the immigrants do you should read Brians excellent post here. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/Happy-E-days-are-here-again-/46591/31/We cant do that as we simply do not have enough people. The immigrants we have we simply cannot do without (Well most of them anyway). So if our EU immigrants go I take it your happy to recruit from Asia and Africa then.You see we can never control immigration, it controls us. Supply and demand.

Barry ... Who's asking the EU immigrants to go ??? ... If your saying they are unhappy and want to leave because they feel unloved because of Brexit then we can only assume that the same will happen to Scotlands English residents if the SNP win the referendum vote ??? ... The Isle of Mull will suddenly become deserted and the English who live in the rest of Scotland will leave ... Is that really what your getting at ???

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 6:13 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 6:08 PM

RogerC - 2017-03-19 12:38 PM

Where on earth did you drag that lot up from? I don't really understand it though. Are you saying the EU stops us from recruiting from outside of the EU? As far as I know we have always been able to dictate who comes and goes from OUTSIDE of the EU but yes they have to have work permits but the EU does not stop them coming. Are you trying to say that if we leave the EU it will make it easier for none EU Immigrants to come here? Your going to have to explain it better for me sorry. 

At least you recognise that we need immigrants (I think) and it seems you would prefer them to be from outside of the EU not within for some reason.

Quite simply most of my information came from existing knowledge and a little research.

To make things easier to digest.  The UK is the most densly populated of all EU countries and is 53 out of 241 countries world wide.  Essentially....we are overflowing....the seams (education places, housing, NHS, doctors appointments etc) are bursting.

Financial/fiscal equality is not achievable across the EU therefore those chasing money will be forever on the move....poorer areas to more affluent ones hence the now recognised global issues in worker remuneration causing the almost permanent, albeit slow, shift of work from country to country.  For example Chinese workers became more affluent on the back of their economic boom so inflation caused increased wage demands etc etc.  Now those workers are out of work because their jobs have been moved to Vietnam where overheads are cheaper......and so the circle turns.  Therefore the freedom of movement within the EU countries is seeing skills migrate to where the money is leaving 'home countries' (Hungary/Poland and others) with skills shortages which raises costs of those remaining(if any), makes the socio/economic standards of the poorer country even worse and because of the numbers migrating (too many too quickly) has a socio/economic effect (some good and some undesirable) on the destination country.

Therefore controlled migration as is practised by those countries I mentioned (Oz, NZ, Canada etc) is IMO the fairest way of dealing with skills requirements for both the migrants home country and their destination country.  A spin off is that if 'imported' skills are controlled then it should become incumbent on the 'home' country to improve it's own home skills base negating the need for high numbers of immigrant workers.  However as has always been the case no one country has ever had the perfect skill/population balance therefore migration was and clearly always be necessary.....but managed/controlled not a free for all as the EU is practising.

P.S.

 

 

I read you are happy with the rules regarding non EU citizens entry into the UK or indeed the EU making them 'jump through hoops' to gain entry.  Surely that is discriminating against them?  Taken to it's ultimate conclusion why is it that those individuals/organisations that are damning the UK for it's stance against the unfettered movement of potentially 700,000,000 EU citizens are not similarly up in arms over the 'hoop jumping' requirements imposed on the other 7,000,000,000 (and counting) inhabitants of our planet?   Or is it OK to be 'selective' as to who can roam ones 'club' because if it is that is discrimination??

The bottom line is that unfettered freedom of movement is not something that modern society, or indeed any society can sustain without serious socio/economic issues arising therefore IMO the EU 'wander at will' policy is sorely misguided.

I dont necessarily agree with your view point as I would like to see evidence that these countries in Europe are being deprived of key skills (no Mail links please) because of free movement. Its not perfect but it works but maybe needs some reform. As for training up our own to do the jobs the immigrants do you should read Brians excellent post here. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/Happy-E-days-are-here-again-/46591/31/We cant do that as we simply do not have enough people. The immigrants we have we simply cannot do without (Well most of them anyway). So if our EU immigrants go I take it your happy to recruit from Asia and Africa then.You see we can never control immigration, it controls us. Supply and demand.

Barry ... Who's asking the EU immigrants to go ??? ... If your saying they are unhappy and want to leave because they feel unloved because of Brexit then we can only assume that the same will happen to Scotlands English residents if the SNP win the referendum vote ??? ... The Isle of Mull will suddenly become deserted and the English who live in the rest of Scotland will leave ... Is that really what your getting at ???

As far as I know the Scots have a problem with rule by Westminster they dont seem to have been kicking up a fuss about the English living in Scotland so its not the same. In fact I am sure I saw a statement from Nicola Sturgeon the other day welcoming and encouraging those from the rest of the United Kingdom who wish to remain in the EU to come and live in Scotland once they are independent. Brexit has been quite the opposite. It was totally dominated by the immigration issue, hate crime increased dramatically and indeed many EU workers now feel unwelcome here, many have been abused and feel unsafe. What would you do? Immigration from the EU is down, people are leaving and as discussed in important areas like the NHS nearly all of those thinking of leaving cited the reason as being unwelcome and not wanting to be part of Brexit Britain.You cannot compare the two but what you can work out is exactly how much up the creek we will be if they do all go which is why the NHS is recruiting from Asia and Africa. Careful what you wish for huh.

[antony1969]

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 6:38 PM

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 6:13 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 6:08 PM

RogerC - 2017-03-19 12:38 PM

Where on earth did you drag that lot up from? I don't really understand it though. Are you saying the EU stops us from recruiting from outside of the EU? As far as I know we have always been able to dictate who comes and goes from OUTSIDE of the EU but yes they have to have work permits but the EU does not stop them coming. Are you trying to say that if we leave the EU it will make it easier for none EU Immigrants to come here? Your going to have to explain it better for me sorry. 

At least you recognise that we need immigrants (I think) and it seems you would prefer them to be from outside of the EU not within for some reason.

Quite simply most of my information came from existing knowledge and a little research.

To make things easier to digest.  The UK is the most densly populated of all EU countries and is 53 out of 241 countries world wide.  Essentially....we are overflowing....the seams (education places, housing, NHS, doctors appointments etc) are bursting.

Financial/fiscal equality is not achievable across the EU therefore those chasing money will be forever on the move....poorer areas to more affluent ones hence the now recognised global issues in worker remuneration causing the almost permanent, albeit slow, shift of work from country to country.  For example Chinese workers became more affluent on the back of their economic boom so inflation caused increased wage demands etc etc.  Now those workers are out of work because their jobs have been moved to Vietnam where overheads are cheaper......and so the circle turns.  Therefore the freedom of movement within the EU countries is seeing skills migrate to where the money is leaving 'home countries' (Hungary/Poland and others) with skills shortages which raises costs of those remaining(if any), makes the socio/economic standards of the poorer country even worse and because of the numbers migrating (too many too quickly) has a socio/economic effect (some good and some undesirable) on the destination country.

Therefore controlled migration as is practised by those countries I mentioned (Oz, NZ, Canada etc) is IMO the fairest way of dealing with skills requirements for both the migrants home country and their destination country.  A spin off is that if 'imported' skills are controlled then it should become incumbent on the 'home' country to improve it's own home skills base negating the need for high numbers of immigrant workers.  However as has always been the case no one country has ever had the perfect skill/population balance therefore migration was and clearly always be necessary.....but managed/controlled not a free for all as the EU is practising.

P.S.

 

 

I read you are happy with the rules regarding non EU citizens entry into the UK or indeed the EU making them 'jump through hoops' to gain entry.  Surely that is discriminating against them?  Taken to it's ultimate conclusion why is it that those individuals/organisations that are damning the UK for it's stance against the unfettered movement of potentially 700,000,000 EU citizens are not similarly up in arms over the 'hoop jumping' requirements imposed on the other 7,000,000,000 (and counting) inhabitants of our planet?   Or is it OK to be 'selective' as to who can roam ones 'club' because if it is that is discrimination??

The bottom line is that unfettered freedom of movement is not something that modern society, or indeed any society can sustain without serious socio/economic issues arising therefore IMO the EU 'wander at will' policy is sorely misguided.

I dont necessarily agree with your view point as I would like to see evidence that these countries in Europe are being deprived of key skills (no Mail links please) because of free movement. Its not perfect but it works but maybe needs some reform. As for training up our own to do the jobs the immigrants do you should read Brians excellent post here. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/Happy-E-days-are-here-again-/46591/31/We cant do that as we simply do not have enough people. The immigrants we have we simply cannot do without (Well most of them anyway). So if our EU immigrants go I take it your happy to recruit from Asia and Africa then.You see we can never control immigration, it controls us. Supply and demand.

Barry ... Who's asking the EU immigrants to go ??? ... If your saying they are unhappy and want to leave because they feel unloved because of Brexit then we can only assume that the same will happen to Scotlands English residents if the SNP win the referendum vote ??? ... The Isle of Mull will suddenly become deserted and the English who live in the rest of Scotland will leave ... Is that really what your getting at ???

As far as I know the Scots have a problem with rule by Westminster they dont seem to have been kicking up a fuss about the English living in Scotland so its not the same. In fact I am sure I saw a statement from Nicola Sturgeon the other day welcoming and encouraging those from the rest of the United Kingdom who wish to remain in the EU to come and live in Scotland once they are independent. Brexit has been quite the opposite. It was totally dominated by the immigration issue, hate crime increased dramatically and indeed many EU workers now feel unwelcome here, many have been abused and feel unsafe. What would you do? Immigration from the EU is down, people are leaving and as discussed in important areas like the NHS nearly all of those thinking of leaving cited the reason as being unwelcome and not wanting to be part of Brexit Britain.You cannot compare the two but what you can work out is exactly how much up the creek we will be if they do all go which is why the NHS is recruiting from Asia and Africa. Careful what you wish for huh.

I can compare the two and I could chuck in Welsh Nationalism too which really has been quite nasty towards the English and not the mostly fictional anonymous non-existent Brexit crimes reported by folk leaving no details ... I had a word with my missus to ask her buddy who's pretty high up in our local NHS hospital if in her hospital and she looks after the whole hospital if she had seen increased numbers of EU workers leaving since Brexit ... Guess what , other than the natural drip of leavers nothing , so given that Huddersfield ( she also looks after Halifax ) is a city according to Bullet you might expect us to be feeling your pain a bit regarding the mass exodus dont ya think

[Bulletguy]

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 6:03 PM

 

Truth it hurt dunit Bullet ... Your link to that Muslim site could be a conversation with Mickey Mouse or Spock or anyone ... Proof to back up who this supposed KKK member might be would be good ... I'll wait for it.

You mean like the "proof" from the link you posted about KKK allowing black people to join 'em?

 

Here is one that actually did join......but you'll be disappointed. ;-)

 

http://www.good4utah.com/contact/brian-carlson/black-utah-man-goes-undercover-as-member-of-the-ku-klux-klan/205646299

 

So back at ya.......truth hurts especially when it doesn't quite go the way you wanted. ;-)

[Barryd999]

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 7:01 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 6:38 PM

antony1969 - 2017-03-19 6:13 PM

Barryd999 - 2017-03-19 6:08 PM

RogerC - 2017-03-19 12:38 PM

Where on earth did you drag that lot up from? I don't really understand it though. Are you saying the EU stops us from recruiting from outside of the EU? As far as I know we have always been able to dictate who comes and goes from OUTSIDE of the EU but yes they have to have work permits but the EU does not stop them coming. Are you trying to say that if we leave the EU it will make it easier for none EU Immigrants to come here? Your going to have to explain it better for me sorry. 

At least you recognise that we need immigrants (I think) and it seems you would prefer them to be from outside of the EU not within for some reason.

Quite simply most of my information came from existing knowledge and a little research.

To make things easier to digest.  The UK is the most densly populated of all EU countries and is 53 out of 241 countries world wide.  Essentially....we are overflowing....the seams (education places, housing, NHS, doctors appointments etc) are bursting.

Financial/fiscal equality is not achievable across the EU therefore those chasing money will be forever on the move....poorer areas to more affluent ones hence the now recognised global issues in worker remuneration causing the almost permanent, albeit slow, shift of work from country to country.  For example Chinese workers became more affluent on the back of their economic boom so inflation caused increased wage demands etc etc.  Now those workers are out of work because their jobs have been moved to Vietnam where overheads are cheaper......and so the circle turns.  Therefore the freedom of movement within the EU countries is seeing skills migrate to where the money is leaving 'home countries' (Hungary/Poland and others) with skills shortages which raises costs of those remaining(if any), makes the socio/economic standards of the poorer country even worse and because of the numbers migrating (too many too quickly) has a socio/economic effect (some good and some undesirable) on the destination country.

Therefore controlled migration as is practised by those countries I mentioned (Oz, NZ, Canada etc) is IMO the fairest way of dealing with skills requirements for both the migrants home country and their destination country.  A spin off is that if 'imported' skills are controlled then it should become incumbent on the 'home' country to improve it's own home skills base negating the need for high numbers of immigrant workers.  However as has always been the case no one country has ever had the perfect skill/population balance therefore migration was and clearly always be necessary.....but managed/controlled not a free for all as the EU is practising.

P.S.

 

 

I read you are happy with the rules regarding non EU citizens entry into the UK or indeed the EU making them 'jump through hoops' to gain entry.  Surely that is discriminating against them?  Taken to it's ultimate conclusion why is it that those individuals/organisations that are damning the UK for it's stance against the unfettered movement of potentially 700,000,000 EU citizens are not similarly up in arms over the 'hoop jumping' requirements imposed on the other 7,000,000,000 (and counting) inhabitants of our planet?   Or is it OK to be 'selective' as to who can roam ones 'club' because if it is that is discrimination??

The bottom line is that unfettered freedom of movement is not something that modern society, or indeed any society can sustain without serious socio/economic issues arising therefore IMO the EU 'wander at will' policy is sorely misguided.

I dont necessarily agree with your view point as I would like to see evidence that these countries in Europe are being deprived of key skills (no Mail links please) because of free movement. Its not perfect but it works but maybe needs some reform. As for training up our own to do the jobs the immigrants do you should read Brians excellent post here. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/General-Chat/Chatterbox/Happy-E-days-are-here-again-/46591/31/We cant do that as we simply do not have enough people. The immigrants we have we simply cannot do without (Well most of them anyway). So if our EU immigrants go I take it your happy to recruit from Asia and Africa then.You see we can never control immigration, it controls us. Supply and demand.

Barry ... Who's asking the EU immigrants to go ??? ... If your saying they are unhappy and want to leave because they feel unloved because of Brexit then we can only assume that the same will happen to Scotlands English residents if the SNP win the referendum vote ??? ... The Isle of Mull will suddenly become deserted and the English who live in the rest of Scotland will leave ... Is that really what your getting at ???

As far as I know the Scots have a problem with rule by Westminster they dont seem to have been kicking up a fuss about the English living in Scotland so its not the same. In fact I am sure I saw a statement from Nicola Sturgeon the other day welcoming and encouraging those from the rest of the United Kingdom who wish to remain in the EU to come and live in Scotland once they are independent. Brexit has been quite the opposite. It was totally dominated by the immigration issue, hate crime increased dramatically and indeed many EU workers now feel unwelcome here, many have been abused and feel unsafe. What would you do? Immigration from the EU is down, people are leaving and as discussed in important areas like the NHS nearly all of those thinking of leaving cited the reason as being unwelcome and not wanting to be part of Brexit Britain.You cannot compare the two but what you can work out is exactly how much up the creek we will be if they do all go which is why the NHS is recruiting from Asia and Africa. Careful what you wish for huh.

I can compare the two and I could chuck in Welsh Nationalism too which really has been quite nasty towards the English and not the mostly fictional anonymous non-existent Brexit crimes reported by folk leaving no details ... I had a word with my missus to ask her buddy who's pretty high up in our local NHS hospital if in her hospital and she looks after the whole hospital if she had seen increased numbers of EU workers leaving since Brexit ... Guess what , other than the natural drip of leavers nothing , so given that Huddersfield ( she also looks after Halifax ) is a city according to Bullet you might expect us to be feeling your pain a bit regarding the mass exodus dont ya think

Well whatever your friend says the facts are immigration is dropping, people are weighing up their options and many are either leaving or considering leaving in all professions. Did you ask your friend if they are not leaving why there are so few applications now from the EU and why the NHS is having to recruit now from Asia and Africa?Country file tonight I hear (not seen it yet) showed that many specialist EU agricultural workers will not be returning this year due to Brexit and also the fall in the pound. You had better hope that when and IF article 50 is invoked that it doesnt drop much further as the appeal of working here is going to wane even more for our neighbours from the EU. Still there a plenty of economic Migrants as we know heading to Europe maybe we can let them in and train em up. :D

[RogerC]

Barry and others who don't want immigration from the EU controlled are simply missing the point:

From The Observer back in 2007:

As Poland loses builders to Britain, its colleges are struggling to meet demand for trained workers

 2 January 2007 10.06 GMT

"We are short of 170,000 building workers and the government has just negotiated to bring in workers from Romania and Bulgaria." This is not Britain but Poland, and the speaker is Andrzej Jachnik, director of the Building College, which trains 700 craftsmen each year in Gdansk, on the Baltic. "There are major building projects here that are stuck on the drawing board because we can't get builders," he says.

 

 

So you see uncontrolled migration with too many workers moving to another country for better paid jobs is detrimental to both the country losing and the one gaining these people 'if left uncontrolled'.  That is all reasonable 'exit' thinkers are wanting....a balanced policy and set of rules that assist both sides/countries of the migratory issue.

[Bulletguy]

RogerC - 2017-03-19 11:13 PM

 

So you see uncontrolled migration with too many workers moving to another country for better paid jobs is detrimental to both the country losing and the one gaining these people 'if left uncontrolled'. That is all reasonable 'exit' thinkers are wanting....a balanced policy and set of rules that assist both sides/countries of the migratory issue.

Roger nobody has ever advocated uncontrolled immigration and as Brian pointed out up thread the numbers show this to be the case even today. It's a myth perpetuated by xenophobic headlines which rags like the Fail screech, and folk daft enough soak up that drivel like sponges.

 

Migration works both ways though and as you mentioned building/builders, remember we've had a number of slumps in that trade over the years. As many builders work sub-contract, they go where the work is, they aren't going to hang around waiting for the work to come to them. Look at the number of Brit builders who went off to Spain and Germany during it's building boom. That became so well known two screen writers made a fortune writing a tv drama series off the back of it,,,,,"Auf Wiedersehn Pet". It also made household names out of all the actors who took part in it.

 

I've no idea if you still work and if so what you do, but if you had the opportunity to better your income along with a decent lifestyle by moving to another country......would you stay here stuck in a dead end rut, or emigrate?

 

Of course the major stumbling block for the majority of Brits is their inability to speak a foreign language or unwillingness to learn whereas most young people from EU countries have learnt English at school. I once met a Polish guy, older than me, who had lived in Poland during Russian occupation so his first language was Russian, second Polish, but spoke fluent English. For the most part he'd taught himself by grabbing any books or magazines he could find in English. When he left school he could already speak reasonable English and began work in shipbuilding and ended up working all over the world.

 

You ought try a bit of touring in Poland. It's an amazing country with some fantastic scenery and the people are really friendly. I can barely manage more than half a dozen words in Polish (its not an easy language) but i manage ok. I'm looking forward to being back there again this year.