Which Refillable LPG system

[AndyLou]

Hi All,

I am thinking of getting a refillable LPG system fitted to our MH.

What I would like to know is which one would people recommend and do you know anyone who fits them in the Southampton area or can you get them fitted at the shows?

I am just about convinced that it will work out cheaper than the refills from Calor.

We use the lightweight 6kg propane bottles at the moment which are expensive to fill, though Go Outdoors is very reasonable with their card and DOE discount.

I am thinking that a single 13kg bottle which should fit in locker will suffice.

I would then keep 1 of the refillable bottles for use with Cadac.

 

Thanks in advance for your help.

 

Andy

[ColinM50]

Hi Andy, well here's what I found.

 

Went to the Feb show at NEC and looked in detail at the Gaslow system then the Harrogate show last week and looked at Gas-It. A bit of research showed that both systems use the same Portuguese made pressure vessel (bottle) and there's nothing between them now if you buy the current R67 bottles. Older bottles were different but that's not applicable now. Fittings are all interchangeable and the only difference I found was in the price. Gas-it are a tad cheaper, c£20-30, so not much in it.

 

I ended up going to Cak Tanks in Coventry, bought loads of stuff from them over the years and trust their advice, and the chappie there (Carl) advised me that there's no difference so I bought the marginally cheaper 11Kg Gas-It which holds 21litres of gas. In all I think the tank, filler and various fittings came to £210 and my plan is to install the tank in my M/H, when I can make the gas bottle cupboard a bit bigger to take the tank, and then use my existing 6kg Calorlite bottle as a spare, though I'm sure there must be a way I can refill the Calor cylinder from the Gas-it but no-one will admit it or sell me an adapter.

 

Very happy with the Cak Tanks advice. Since they sell both they seem to be impartial but you must make your own decision. They're here if it helps and will mail the stuff to you if you want.

 

http://leisurelines.net/gas-33-c.asp

 

[StuartO]

Unless you are living in your MH, and therefore maybe using a lot of gas for heating in winter, I don't think you can possibly save money by installing a refillable system - I only spend £20-£40 on gas each year and my two 11kg system cost me over £500 ten years ago (prices have come down since then of course) so it doesn't stack up economically.

 

But there is a huge convenience advantage with a refillable system.  You can top up whenever its convenient and ensure you are topped up before a holiday starts - and you never waste the gas that's left in the bottles as you do if you exchange rental bottles.

 

In retrospect I would still buy refillables for a new MH, still have two refillable bottles (with an automatic changeover) but I would have 11kg as the primary bottle and 6 kg as the backup because I've never gone much beyond using the start of the second bottle before finding it convenient to top up. 

 

I carry a full set of adapters to allow me to refill anywhere in Europe.  Note however that refill points in UK are not getting more numerous.  Calor will not allow refilling of refillables at their depots - ostensibly on safety grounds but that's clearly nonesense and they are blocking it for purely commercial reasons, to try to discourage people from using them.

 

BP has also started removing their LPG pumps from forecourts and other Autogas forecourts sometimes ban refilling refillables -again for safety reasons because there have been MH owners refilling dodgy DIY installations.  But there are still enough Autogas pumps around the allow you to refill in UK so don't worry.  If you go to a Flowgas Depot and use their Autogas Pump you will get really cheap LPG.

 

It is possible to refill a rented (eg Calor) bottle from another bottle if you have the relevant connectors - and these can be bought (from abroad) on EBay.  But don't be tempted; its definitely dagerous and the cost savings to be had are negligible.  Buy two refillable gas bottles of the appropriate size for you and install with a skin-fitting filler nozzle and an automatic changeover valve and you will have a safe and reliable installation.  Two 6kg refillables would do for most people - why carry lots of gas around if you can refil conveniently?

 

[peterjl]

Hi

 

I have no personal experience but recall that Essandjay in Dorset have been recommended in the past. Gas systems do not appear on website but I know they used to do them cos I had a chat before I fitted mine some years back. I only went elsewhere because it was geographically easier. At the time.

 

Worth a phone call

 

Peter

[Robbo]

This website is supposed to be very competitive http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/gaslow_refillables.htm

and sells all the connections. Neill the site owner is a motorcaravaner and knows his stuff.

 

They also sell Gas-it bottles.

 

I travel with one 11Kg refillable and a smaller non-refillable as an emergency reserve.

 

Many people are able to install the system themselves. The only difficult bit is installing an external filler point. However, internal gas locker filler points are available, which are easy to install, but you might be refused filling at some LPG stations.

 

If you don't feel confident at DIY then essandjay at Poole would be a good choice, as mentioned above. Might be worth contacting Southdowns in Portsmouth but they tend to be very busy at this time of year.

[stevec176]

Hi,

I've just had a Gaslow system fitted to my van to replace 2 x 6kg bottles and it cost about £500. No way will I recoup the cost but as I wanted to travel abroad I wanted the assurance of being able to fill the gas up. I've kept the 6kg bottles, one full and one empty, and will reinstall them when I sell the van. Wish I'd thought about which type of tanks to have fitted when I bought the van, would have save some money but we learn with experience.

 

Good luck

[Derek Uzzell]

ColinM50 - 2017-04-04 6:20 PM

 

Hi Andy, well here's what I found.

 

Went to the Feb show at NEC and looked in detail at the Gaslow system then the Harrogate show last week and looked at Gas-It. A bit of research showed that both systems use the same Portuguese made pressure vessel (bottle) and there's nothing between them now if you buy the current R67 bottles. Older bottles were different but that's not applicable now. Fittings are all interchangeable and the only difference I found was in the price. Gas-it are a tad cheaper, c£20-30, so not much in it.

 

I ended up going to Cak Tanks in Coventry, bought loads of stuff from them over the years and trust their advice, and the chappie there (Carl) advised me that there's no difference so I bought the marginally cheaper 11Kg Gas-It which holds 21litres of gas. In all I think the tank, filler and various fittings came to £210 and my plan is to install the tank in my M/H, when I can make the gas bottle cupboard a bit bigger to take the tank, and then use my existing 6kg Calorlite bottle as a spare, though I'm sure there must be a way I can refill the Calor cylinder from the Gas-it but no-one will admit it or sell me an adapter.

 

Very happy with the Cak Tanks advice. Since they sell both they seem to be impartial but you must make your own decision. They're here if it helps and will mail the stuff to you if you want.

 

http://leisurelines.net/gas-33-c.asp

 

I don’t know where Gaslow source their canisters from nowadays, though it certainly used to be the case that the original Gaslow bottles were manufactured in Portugal.

 

The GAS-IT equivalent to a Gaslow R67 11kg bottle is this one

 

http://www.gasit.co.uk/leisure-gas-refillable-products/3-gas-it-plus-4-hole-bottles/4-hole-27-tr-13kg-gas-it-plus-refillable-gas-cylinder.html

 

This is a (STAKO-made?) 4-hole type and differs significantly from Gaslow R67 containers (as will be plain from the attached link showing an R67 bottle’s central valve arrangement and carrying-handle).

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/Ask-Gaslow/Gaslow-R67-Cylinder-FAQ/Gaslow-R67-On/Off-valve

 

The asking-price of the GAS-IT 4-hole container is £215 and a Gaslow 11kg R67 bottle can normally be obtained for around £150

 

http://gasproducts.co.uk/gaslow-r67-11kg-refillable-cylinder-1-with-level-gauge.html

 

Realistically, it will not be practicable to refill your Calorlite bottle while refilling the GAS-IT bottle (which I presume is what you’d like to do) as the Calor canister has no dedicated filler-inlet and no 80% shut-off valve.

 

You could, of course, directly refill a disconnected Calorlite bottle using a suitable adapter (example here)

 

http://lpggpl.com/product/gas-bottle-adaptor-for-filling-lpg-propane/

 

though Calor forbids you to do so.

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/news/calor-warns-about-unlawful-filling-of-lpg-cylinders-at-autogas-refuelling-sites/

[Matrix Meanderer]

stevec176 - 2017-04-05 9:23 AM

 

Hi,

I've just had a Gaslow system fitted to my van to replace 2 x 6kg bottles and it cost about £500. No way will I recoup the cost but as I wanted to travel abroad I wanted the assurance of being able to fill the gas up. I've kept the 6kg bottles, one full and one empty, and will reinstall them when I sell the van. Wish I'd thought about which type of tanks to have fitted when I bought the van, would have save some money but we learn with experience.

 

Good luck

 

I had a single 11Kg Gaslow system installed around 10 years ago and have filled up regularly in France and Spain at very low prices (currently 51 pence per litre in Spain). I have hardly ever filled up in the UK so I reckon that by now I have broken even on the installation cost and never run our of LPG/GPL.

Good reliable system, only problem has been the Spanish pumps which don't like the non-return valve in the Euro adapters, sometimes they work sometimes they don't. . :-D

[StuartO]

Matrix Meanderer - 2017-04-05 10:30 AM ..... only problem has been the Spanish pumps which don't like the non-return valve in the Euro adapters, sometimes they work sometimes they don't. . :-D

 

Useful tip - but there are two versions of the Euro adapter, a cheap one costing around £10-£15 and one with a built in non-return valve (not really needed on a UK type installation) costing more like £25.  I bought the former type.

[david lloyd]

The other option if you would like to free up locker space is to go for an under slung tank. These come in various sizes but I would highly recommend using heavy duty bands for securing it to the chassis rather than the rather flimsy, powder coated variety often used as standard.

 

Although a long way from you I can recommend Autogas 2000 near Thirsk in North Yorkshire. They install LPG vehicke systems and will be able to advise on the best size/method of fitting. They can also accomodate an overnight stay.

 

David

[Derek Uzzell]

As will be apparent from the following link, there is quite a variety of user-refillable metal gas-bottles.

 

http://www.autogasshop.co.uk/refillable-bottles-20-c.asp

 

On reflection, I think the GAS-IT 4-hole canisters probably are GZWM products, hence made in Poland. Autogas 2000 offers a 15kg-capacity GZWM bottle and a smaller version is marketed here

 

http://www.lpgshop.co.uk/vapour-gas-cylinder-tanks/

 

Also available are composite-construction “Safefill” cylinders

 

http://www.safefill.co.uk/

 

but refilling involves the cylinder being disconnected from the leisure-vehicle’s gas-supply pipework and being reconnected afterwards.

[AndyLou]

Thank you all for the advice.

 

I am still confused but that is my fault not yours.

 

I think I will visit the stands at the up coming shows and see who offers me a the best deal on bottle and fitting.

 

Andy

[StuartO]

david lloyd - 2017-04-05 1:27 PMThe other option if you would like to free up locker space is to go for an under slung tank.....

 

But always check the weight implications of any new or revised gas storage installation for impact on your payload.  It's all too easy to end up being overweight - especially if you then load up your former gas locker with stuff!

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Andy&Lou - 2017-04-06 7:59 AM

 

Thank you all for the advice.

 

I am still confused but that is my fault not yours.

 

I think I will visit the stands at the up coming shows and see who offers me a the best deal on bottle and fitting.

 

Andy

 

Although there are quite a few different user-refillable LPG bottles being marketed, as you are planning to carry a single refillable bottle you’d be wise to choose one that has a contents-level gauge that is ‘mechanical’ rather than ‘magnetic’. The latter type (normally fitted to ‘budget’ 2-hole bottles) has gained an unenviable reputation for unreliabillity and inaccuracy. Gaslow used to fit magnetically-operated gauges and had so much bad publicity about them that they eventually decided to market their basic canisters without any contents-level gauges.

 

Gaslow R67 bottles have a mechanically-operated gauge and, because of the centrally-positioned multiple-valve assembly, the gauge can read accurately and progressively from full to near-empty. The latest R67 design (with improvements to its outlet design and On/Off valve) is probably as good as any.

 

As the time taken for installation should (on a like for like basis) be similar, you’d be sensible to select a ‘good’ bottle and fittings, not just go for an attractive quoted price that results from using cheap equipment.

[Robbo]

I've always wondered how easy it is to read the gauge on the Gaslow R67 bottle as it's mounted horizontally. However, on closer inspection of the latest version, I see the gauge has been raised in a transparent housing so it can be read from both the top and the side. A vast improvement.

 

By comparison, the R67 type GAS-IT bottle still seems to have the horizontal flush mounted mechanical gauge.

 

I suppose with the flush mounted gauge you could always use a mirror to view the gauge, as with most installations, it's difficult to view from the top.

[AndyLou]

Sound advice about the gauge

 

Thanks

Andy

[Matrix Meanderer]

StuartO - 2017-04-05 11:26 AM

Matrix Meanderer - 2017-04-05 10:30 AM ..... only problem has been the Spanish pumps which don't like the non-return valve in the Euro adapters, sometimes they work sometimes they don't. . :-D

 

Useful tip - but there are two versions of the Euro adapter, a cheap one costing around £10-£15 and one with a built in non-return valve (not really needed on a UK type installation) costing more like £25.  I bought the former type.

Stuart - where can these non-return valve adapters be bought? I've had a look online and not yet found a retailer. Presume they are available in Spain but anywhere in the UK? Thanks :-S

[Steve928]

I bought one from lpgshop.co.uk recently and it is straight through without a non-return valve.

 

http://www.lpgshop.co.uk/uk-bayonet-w21-8-to-euro-connector-adapter/

[Derek Uzzell]

Robbo - 2017-04-06 10:03 AM

 

I've always wondered how easy it is to read the gauge on the Gaslow R67 bottle as it's mounted horizontally. However, on closer inspection of the latest version, I see the gauge has been raised in a transparent housing so it can be read from both the top and the side. A vast improvement.

 

By comparison, the R67 type GAS-IT bottle still seems to have the horizontal flush mounted mechanical gauge.

 

I suppose with the flush mounted gauge you could always use a mirror to view the gauge, as with most installations, it's difficult to view from the top.

 

I was under the impression (perhaps wrongly) that the contents-level gauge fitted to Gaslow R67 bottles has always been readable from above or (less easily) from the side (see attached photos).

 

Bottles with a contents-level gauge fitted horizontally into their top surface often have the option of a remote readout, but the following link shows that a 'mirror plate’ has also been marketed as an accessory.

 

http://www.gasfachfrau.de/1eng_tankflaschen_fernanzeigen.html

 

(Should be easy enough to DIY a mirror from a bit of stainless-steel.)

[Derek Uzzell]

Matrix Meanderer - 2017-04-06 5:48 PM

 

....where can these non-return valve adapters be bought? I've had a look online and not yet found a retailer.

Presume they are available in Spain but anywhere in the UK?

Thanks :-S

 

The vast majority of ‘Euro Nozzle’ adapters advertised on-line are UK-priced at around £10 and these will undoubtedly not have an integrated non-return valve.

 

The exception price-wise is the Gaslow adapter shown in the following link

 

http://tinyurl.com/nx7zydh

 

The asking-price of over-£20 strongly suggests (but obviously does not prove ;-) ) that this is the version with an integrated non-return valve.

 

(Confirm with Gaslow before parting with your dosh.)

[StuartO]

You can see from the photos on the listings that the cheap one has a hole inside while the expensive one has an obstruction, i.e. the non-return valve.

 

The official design of the Euro nozzle includes a non-return valve so the straight through ones may be less official in some way but there is no reason why they shouldn't work.  All my other adapters are straight through. The filling system itself has a non-return system built in so its only a small release of gas from the nozzle which occurs at disconnection from the Autogas pump.

 

[henrypartridge]

The convenience is a big factor but if you have solar panel and Gaslow like I do you can use non electric pitches and that DIES save me a lot over my 180 nights a year. SMC at Newark installed my Gaslow system for less than I could buy the components for.