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Rear axle weights. Help please.

watty55

By watty55
in Motorhome Matters

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watty55 Contributor

watty55

Posted
Posted

I am trying to find the max axle weight on my motorhome (Autoroller 747) but so far not having much success. When i purchased the vehicle last year i took it to the local weigh bridge in the "Miro weight" and the rear axle read at 1450 kgs.

 

So far i have checked the V5C but only gives max and min weights, the 2016 Rollerteam brochure states the same, while the 2017 brochure states the same plus mentioning the max trailer weight and and towable weight. That's not really of much help to me.

 

The only clue so far is the Rollerteam metal ID plate inside the passenger's door and now it's down to guess work, there are a set of figures showing 3500, 5500 1850 and 2000, unfortunately there are no letters or phrases in front of these figures, i would have at least expected some thing in italian there.

 

Guessing that 3500 is the gross weight, 5500 could be the max trailer weight and 2000 possibly the towable weight, i am deducing 1850 COULD be the max rear axle weight, but that doesn't give me clarity. My apologies for making this thread sound like a maths question but most motorhomers with rear garages fill them to the brim, even with a small garage that's on mine, so it would be nice to know what weight can be carried at the back

 

 

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Keithl Grand Master

Keithl

Posted
Posted

Your four weights are...

 

GVW Max weight of vehicle without trailer

GTW Max weight of vehicle with trailer

Max Front axle weight

Max Rear axle weight

 

And the sum of the 2 axles will always be greater than the GVW to allow for loading, ie if they where exactly equal you would have to balance your load exactly right.

 

Keith.

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Steve928 Mentor

Steve928

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Keithl - 2017-04-27 ]

 

And the sum of the 2 axles will always be greater than the GVW to allow for loading, ie if they where exactly equal you would have to balance your load exactly right.

 

Keith.

 

Hardly 'always'. Lots of vans are at 3850kg MAM on 1850+2000 axle maximums, both from new or due to later up-plating.

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Keithl Grand Master

Keithl

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Posted
Steve928 - 2017-04-27 8:21 PM

 

Keithl - 2017-04-27 ]

 

And the sum of the 2 axles will always be greater than the GVW to allow for loading, ie if they where exactly equal you would have to balance your load exactly right.

 

Keith.

 

Hardly 'always'. Lots of vans are at 3850kg MAM on 1850+2000 axle maximums, both from new or due to later up-plating.

 

OK Agreed that might be the case but it will be almost impossible to use the full GVW (MAM) as the slightest error in loading will cause one axle or the other to be overloaded.

 

IMO that is a bit of a con by the manufacturer just to be able to quote a higher GVW.

 

Keith.

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Keithl Grand Master

Keithl

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watty55 - 2017-04-27 8:51 PM

 

Okay, Thanks Robbo and others for enlightening me on the axle weights, but where could the VIN plates be?

 

The RollerTeam metal ID plate will be the final stage VIN plate, assuming it shows the correct VIN!

 

The manufacturers (Fiat?) first stage plate will usually be on the bonnet locking platform, drivers door aperture or drivers seat base, or if not in a clearly visible position!

 

Keith.

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keninpalamos Experienced

keninpalamos

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watty55 - 2017-04-27 7:26 PM

 

Thanks Agaric, but if you add the two weights together that would 3850 and over weight, or doesn't quite work like that?

 

Regards Watty

yes it does. As you rightly point out 3850 is overloading your van so don't. On the other hand if you are under the weight allowed overall but over weight say on your front axle you would have to move that weight towards the back until your front axle was not overloaded. This weight would fall on the rear axle which won't be over loaded because you are not over weight overall. Confusing isn't it. This easy for a commercial van to move your load around but in a Motorhome it can be harder to work out without rearranging the furniture *-)
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keninpalamos Experienced

keninpalamos

Posted
Posted
Keithl - 2017-04-27 8:41 PM

 

Steve928 - 2017-04-27 8:21 PM

 

Keithl - 2017-04-27 ]

 

And the sum of the 2 axles will always be greater than the GVW to allow for loading, ie if they where exactly equal you would have to balance your load exactly right.

 

Keith.

 

Hardly 'always'. Lots of vans are at 3850kg MAM on 1850+2000 axle maximums, both from new or due to later up-plating.

 

OK Agreed that might be the case but it will be almost impossible to use the full GVW (MAM) as the slightest error in loading will cause one axle or the other to be overloaded.

 

IMO that is a bit of a con by the manufacturer just to be able to quote a higher GVW.

 

Keith.

if you are carrying fluids (water, diesel etc) and depending where your tanks are your axle weights will vary as you move along with braking and accelerating so axles would be over their limit from time to time but I can't see VOSA running along side with a portable weigh bridge although I remember an article about built in weigh bridges on our motorways or was that just a nightmare.
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Romir Rookie

Romir

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Most standard 3500kgs motorhomes on the recent Ducato chassis are built up to 3650 Kgs, but are then downplated by the converter to suit license requirements. Having looked into this in quite some detail and had discussions with Gareth @ SVTech, it is evident that many more vans than you might expect are indeed overweight and modern 'family motorhomes' with 4/6 seats and perhaps an overcab or a front drop-down bed could conceivably be over the 1850 Kgs on the front axle

Been there, done that! Now attempting to address the situation, with some difficulty having gone passed the magic 70 and, initially at least, given up C1 capability.

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Romir Rookie

Romir

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If you look at back issues of MMM, when they actually did type listings and product details, the manufacturer that you identify in the link never produced 'Payload figures' and this is why problems are now arising, particularly with those in the type of format I alluded to in an earlier post. I would welcome an article from MMM or its sister publication putting just such a vehicle through its paces, fully laden and ready to go on a reasonably long 'family/group holiday. The read out from the Weighbridge would certainly make interesting copy. In fact it might be an idea for all such tests to be accompanied by a weight in holiday trim, particularly as many tests are carried out on 'vans that have oodles of extras.
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monique.hubrechtsgm Mentor

monique.hubrechtsgm

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Mine is 7.56 metric meters long having fiat L pull- integral class A and alko high frame chassis. And Alu main side walls. Full tank 90 ltr diesel and 120 ltr water. 4.5 mtr awning, solar and tv on the roof and two habitation battery's. fully engineered by my self and weight calculated 3210 kg. Running happily whit B licence. Technically 1850/2000 axles. Whit F/R air bellows you can have one ton per wheel on a two axle light. In case you have a C1 license buy always a fiat maxi, in case of a van the maxi is standard as shown on the back. There is no cardboard used that is a cliche . However every kilo matters.
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colin Grand Master

colin

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Keithl - 2017-04-30 10:39 AM

 

The review on OAL quotes it at a Max weight of 3,500 kg with a Payload of 635 kg.

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/buyers-guide/motorhomes/details/50/13962

 

So I agree, for 7.5 m MH it must be made of cardboard!

 

Keith.

 

That makes it lighter than my PVC, interesting, as I've driven a fairly lightly loaded 6 berth Rimor and judging by the way it drove i'd guess it had a negative payload!

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Derek Uzzell Grand Master

Derek Uzzell

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This link may be of interest

 

http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/sites/default/files/Interpreting+Weight+Plates+for+Light+Commercial+Vehicles+web.pdf

 

I’ve always treated motorhome payload like motorhome ground clearannce.

 

It ought to be visually obvious when a motorhome’s ground clearance is limited and, consequently, that such vehicles risk the chassis grounding when, say, entering/leaving a ferry. Similarly, if a motorhome is large, it’s not likely to be light and, if the vehicle has been built on a chassis with a low maximum gross weight, there won’t be a great deal of usable payload.

 

It’s unrealistic to expect motorhome journalists to load test-vehicles to ‘normal usage’ state when reviewing them and (as far as I’m concerned) it’s never been too taxing to establish a payload value from a motorhome manufacturer’s advertising literature.

 

When Hobby began to built Ford Transit-based motorhomes in 2004, I remember asking a UK Hobby dealer whether he thought this would improve Hobby’s overall sales figures. He looked at me pityingly and said “Hobby buyers won’t care whether the motorhome has a Ford or Fiat chassis, it’s the pretty paintwork that they adore.”

 

As long as motorhome buyers put their hearts before their heads and ignore that big usually means heavy, there will always be payload problems just waiting to catch out the unwary.

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pepe63xnotuse Grand Master

pepe63xnotuse

Posted
Posted
Keithl - 2017-04-30 10:39 AM

 

The review on OAL quotes it at a Max weight of 3,500 kg with a Payload of 635 kg.

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/buyers-guide/motorhomes/details/50/13962

 

So I agree, for 7.5 m MH it must be made of cardboard!

 

Keith.

 

..when I've seen ad's for "Inflatable motorhome awnings", I had always assumed it was the awning that was inflatable?....maybe, in this case, it's the motorhome? (lol)

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david lloyd Veteran

david lloyd

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Derek Uzzell - 2017-05-01 10:00 AM

 

It’s unrealistic to expect motorhome journalists to load test-vehicles to ‘normal usage’ state when reviewing them

 

I don't think it's that unrealistic Derek, the MMM tests are often undertaken on a camping trip (albeit sometimes just with a solo tester) so some thought could certainly be given to the suitability of the payload quoted - in fact, if the testers are not weighing the vehicles they test then they may run the risk of being overweight during the test.

 

In addition, I think when they do the motorhome of the year tests they add ballast (in the form of full water canisters) to simulate a load in the vehicle. So there are means by which some comment on the payload of a test vehicle could be made but the vital piece of information missing during the test is a weighbridge certificate so the comparisons can be made.

 

David

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