Propane gas bottle to butane

[Pepper97]

Hi all

 

I'm new to motorhoming and indeed this forum. So forgive me if I'm raising an obvious issue!

I'm currently in South France/North Spain and have just run out of our 13kg calor gas bottle. Under advice from a camping shop we bought a camping gaz 907 back up. I've switched it over with, what I thought was the correct regulator and an adaptor to connect to the motorhome. When trying the gas hob we get a little puff of a flame then it goes out. There isn't many people here in the shops that seem to be able to help. I'm hoping someone here can??

 

Thanks

Martin

[bolero boy]

if your MH has a bulkhead mounted regulator, you wont need another regulator for the new bottle.

if you are using UK propane bottles, your hose will terminate in a POL bullet shaped fitting....

in order to use a continental bottle, this fitting (or the hose) needs to be changed.

there is an adaptor (pol to butane) which converts the end of your hose to be the normal continental 'butane fitting' which should fit onto the majority of french cylinders.

if you wish to use a spanish bottle with a Jumbo fitting, a further converter (butane to 'Jumbo') needs to be fitted as well....

in effect, you will have converted your hose to butane first (a popular fitting in its own right) but also gives the base for which other adapters can connect, like the spanish one.

sounds complicated, but is really quite simple....

[Robbo]

Hi Martin - welcome

 

First thing to establish is whether your existing UK propane bottle has it's regulator attached directly to the bottle or whether it connects to a bulkhead mounted regulator via a pigtail?

 

I have a 907 campinggaz bottle for emergency backup. I purchased a straight-through adaptor (with shutoff valve) to connect to the campinggaz bottle. The outlet end from the adaptor has a 21.8 LH thread.

 

Às boleroboy mentioned, if you have a bulkhead mounted regulator then you just need to attach directly from the campinggaz (with adaptor) to the bulkhead regulator - possibly using an appropriate pigtail.

[Pepper97]

Thanks for replying quickly.

I just want to check I have this correct...

 

 

I have some pics I hope I can attach after!

 

I got the camping gaz bottle in the UK with regulator, I assume these are the same here in France or Spain?

 

If I get the pics uploaded, I think all I need to add is the adaptor to the end of the bhutane Jose?

Can I get this over here or only UK?

Cheers

Martin

[Derek Uzzell]

Martin

 

You need to be particularly cautious when dealing with ‘camping’ outlets that are unfamiliar with motorhome gas systems.

 

Connecting to a Campingaz 907 canister needs either a specialised regulator (upper attached photo) or a ‘full pressure’ adapter (lower attached photo).

 

Neither the regulator nor the adapter will attach directly to a gas-hose that will connect to a Calor 13kg propane bottle which (as bolero boy says) has an outlet designed to accept a UK-norm LH-threaded POL connector.

 

From your “...little puff of a flame then it goes out” comment, it sounds like your motorhome’s gas system may now be ‘double regulated’ (ie. your motorhome has a bulkhead-mounted regulator, but now has another (superfluous) regulator on the 907 canister) but that’s just a guess.

 

The wisest thing would be for you to visit a caravan/motorhome dealer as soon as practicable and ask them to check what has been done.

 

[Keithl]

Martin,

 

To help clarify what the other posters are asking, what year is your MH and do you have a bulkhead mounted regulator?

 

Keith.

[Robbo]

I subscribe to Derek's "double regulator" theory/guess.

 

However, if the OP is on the French/Spainish border he may well be in the Pyrenees at high altitude and low temperatures.

 

We ran out of gas in the Pyrenees and deployed the 907 Campinggaz but to no avail because of low ambient temperatures. The butane gas will have difficulty vapourising as the temperature approaches zero degrees centigrade.

[Pepper97]

Thanks for everyone's help so far!

I'm trying to upload some pics of the set up that I have and hopefully that will clarify what the situation is.

I can't do it on my phone so will try with the laptop later.

 

The microwave is helping out...haha!

Thanks again. :-D

[Pepper97]

Keithl - 2017-05-15 3:53 PM

 

Martin,

 

To help clarify what the other posters are asking, what year is your MH and do you have a bulkhead mounted regulator?

 

Keith.

 

Keith, it's a 2014 plate and I'm sure it has a bulk head. There is a device that looks like a pump/regulator thing that the hose attaches to anyway.

Tganks

[Keithl]

Pepper97 - 2017-05-15 4:30 PM

 

Keithl - 2017-05-15 3:53 PM

 

Martin,

 

To help clarify what the other posters are asking, what year is your MH and do you have a bulkhead mounted regulator?

 

Keith.

 

Keith, it's a 2014 plate and I'm sure it has a bulk head. There is a device that looks like a pump/regulator thing that the hose attaches to anyway.

Tganks

 

Thanks Martin,

 

A 2014 will definitely have a bulkhead mounted regulator so you will only need the Camping Gaz 'Adaptor' shown in Derek's photo above.

If you use a regulator on the cylinder the 2 in series will not work and you will get the problem you are experiencing.

 

Keith.

[thebishbus]

Pepper 97 You have to reduce your pic's to under 100KB.

Brian B.

[Robinhood]

Keithl - 2017-05-15 4:35 PM

 

 

A 2014 will definitely have a bulkhead mounted regulator so you will only need the Camping Gaz 'Adaptor' shown in Derek's photo above.

 

Keith.

 

I agree that a 2014 'van will/should have a bulkhead regulator, but as Derek has pointed out, the adapter is unlikely to be sufficient to correct the issue if he has been using (UK) propane until now.

 

The pigtail for the latter will have a POL end on it, but the adapter is designed to fit a UK butane hose, with a 21.8 LH 'nut' end.

 

I don't think Camping Gaz pigtails exist (they're certainly not common) so to use CG, a UK Butane type 21.8 LH pigtail (used for Propane in some countries, and should be reasonably widely available on the continent) AND a CG adapter will be required.

 

Derek's advice to seek the help of a caravan dealer is probably apposite.

 

[bolero boy]

....or use the adaptor shown here

https://gasproducts.co.uk/propane-pol-to-butane-adaptor.html?gclid=CMajjYuo8tMCFaO17QodPcwNZw

 

...and then attach the CG adaptor as shown by Derek.

[Derek Uzzell]

The gas ‘pigtail’ used to connect up a standard 13kg steel French gas-bottle (propane or butane) to a bulkhead-mounted regulator is the same as a UK butane pigtail with the 21.8 left-hand-threaded 'nut’ end referred to by Robinhood.

 

Any French caravan/motorhome dealership should be expected to stock this pigtail and, once the pigtail has been obtained and connected to the bulkhead-mounted regulator, attaching a ‘full pressure’ Campingaz adapter to the pigtail should be a simple matter. (There’s no chance that the propane-POL-to-butane adapter suggested by bolero boy will be obtainable off-the-shelf in France or Spain.)

 

As has been said above, problems with butane vaporisation will occur at low temperatures. Truma always advises that propane be used with their gas appliances and, when gas appliances are high demand, a Campingaz cylinder will be unable to satisfy that demand.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

I am aware that LPG tanks are very popular in the UK. But reading all above is frustrating. We have just one simple solution connection on the tanks and bottles. Watt a mess you have.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

The Wobbe index of propane and butane is different and depends on the nozzles used. It looks that this site use any gas bottle they find whatever it does. That is not the way it should be.

[Seannachie]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-05-15 7:08 PM

 

The Wobbe index of propane and butane is different and depends on the nozzles used. It looks that this site use any gas bottle they find whatever it does. That is not the way it should be.

 

I disagree with your conclusion, but maybe non-UK vehicles are different.

 

Whilst Butane has a higher calorific value than Propane, I think you over-estimate the relevance of the Wobbe Index as there is nothing inherently in it which suggests that one either cannot or should not utilise fuels with different indices providing one is prepared to accept different outputs from the equipment when changing from one gas to the other .

 

Simply put, the Wobbe Index (BTU per Cu.Ft/ Sq.Root of SG) is used to compare the combustion energy output of different composition fuel gases in an appliance (fire, cooker etc.). If two fuels have identical Wobbe Indices then for given pressure and valve settings the energy output will also be identical, however, differences of 5% are considered to be un-noticeable in use by consumers so may be discounted.

 

Whilst the Wobbe Index of Propane and Butane differs - Propane is approximately 2034 whereas that of Butane is approx., 2319, or 12.3% more (figures obtained from here: http://www.altenergy.com/downloads/pdf_public/propdatapdf.pdf), this does not mean that one cannot switch from Propane to Butane on an ad hoc basis using the same regulator and valves. All it means is that one's fridge or stove will will have a different calorific output using Butane rather than Propane, but that is what one would expect anyway for any given ambient temperature at which both gases vaporize.

 

In short, my UK vehicle uses Propane for cooking/heating/fridge but when abroad I often have to switch to Butane - using a POL to 21.8mm SI adaptor - when Propane is not available and I have never had any problems in over 30 years of doing so. Neither should anyone else have a problem who does so and neither does the Wobbe Index imply that one should not interchange these gases providing that one is prepared to accept the different vaporizing characteristics and calorific values as the regulators fitted to 'modern' UK vehicles and other gas-utilising equipment is made to handle either gas without further modification. Prior to the 'modern' 30mb regulators fitted to UK vehicles, one did have to change the regulator when changing from Propane to Butane, but that is a thing of the past.

[Robbo]

Thanks Seannachie for a comprehensive and thorough explanation.

 

Never to old to add to my history bank atlhough recall is becoming a tad more difficult these days :D

[Derek Uzzell]

Seannachie - 2017-05-15 8:29 PM

 

...Prior to the 'modern' 30mb regulators fitted to UK vehicles, one did have to change the regulator when changing from Propane to Butane, but that is a thing of the past.

 

In the ‘Good Old Days’ prior to standardisation on a 30mbar regulated pressure for leisure-vehicle gas systems, it was commonplace in the UK for motorcaravanners/caravanners to use butane in the summer and propane in the winter. The gas system normally included a 28mbar regulator attached directly to a butane bottle or a 37mbar regulator attached directly to a propane bottle, with a low-pressure gas-hose connecting the regulator to the leisure-vehicle’s fixed gas pipework (using jubilee clips). As you say, swapping between the two gasses meant swapping regulators, which (usually) meant chopping off the end of the gas-hose.

 

Although the gas appliances (eg. fridge, oven, hob, heater) fitted to UK-built motorhomes were then designed to run at a 28mbar pressure when butane was employed, or at a 37mbar pressure when propane was used, and warnings were issued that those pressures should be rigidly adhered to, it’s questionable with hindsight whether this was that critical.

 

I recall a series of MMM articles where an elderly motorhome was ‘upgraded’ and one of the upgrades was to install a Truma “Triomatic” automatic twin-bottle-change-over system. Triomatic comprised a ‘medium pressure’ regulator on each bottle and a central 30mbar regulator. The system was intended for propane-bottle usage and there was a warning in the installation instructions that the leisure-vehicle’s appliances must correspond to the 30mbar regulator. However, no mention of this was made in the MMM article and, although the motorhome being upgraded would definitely have had 23mbar/37mbar appliances, adding the Triomatic system apparently produced no untoward effects.

 

Returning to the original posting, Martin should (in principle) be able to connect his motorhome’s bulkhead-mounted regulator to his Campingaz 907 canister using the two items shown in these French adverts

 

https://www.tentes-materiel-camping.com/cuisson-rechauds/4116-raccord-lyre-70-cm-rulquin.html

 

https://www.tentes-materiel-camping.com/cuisson-rechauds/5623-adaptateur-campingaz-sur-lyre-hydraulique.html

 

As the 907 canister is so much shorter than a 13kg bottle, Martin might well require a longish replacement gas-hose (say 70cm or longer). It’s also worth noting that the ‘bottle-end’ nut of a French gas-hose differs from that of a UK butane hose.

 

(In passing, I notice that a Campingaz adapter is advertised in France that should allow direct connection of a UK-norm POL-ended propane gas-hose (see attached photo). It’s intended purpose is to permit Campingaz bottles to be user-refilled, not to make life simple for UK tourists. Anyway, the thing exists...)

 

And finally (to help Monique out) I’ve copied below my legendary ( ;-) ) “Gas in Europe” piece.

 

......................................................................................................................................................

 

Regular inquiries on motorhome forums relate to obtaining gas supplies in the UK or abroad and the potential problems caused by non-standardisation. Motorhomes vary radically in size, design and the manner in which they are used, so it's seldom possible to provide a black-or-white answer as the gas arrangements that may be great for UK touring may be hopeless if your motorcaravanning is primarily in Europe or vice versa. (For convenience, I shall use the words "Europe" and "European" to relate to European countries outside the UK.)

 

The first (and perhaps most important) thing to bear in mind is that UK 'exchange-only' gas-bottles (such as Calor containers) are not exchangeable outside this country. So what can UK motorcaravanners do about gas during extended trips in Europe? There are several options.

 

A. Take as much UK gas as the 'van can carry and hope it lasts. This is a viable strategy if campsite 230V hook-ups are continuously used and all heating, cooking, refrigeration, lighting, etc. activities are arranged to use mains electricity. In such a scenario gas usage is essentially nil. Many UK campers can eke out small gas reserves for several months by regular employment of campsite hook-ups. This strategy won't suit a more-gypsy lifestyle though and, of course, if your UK gas-bottles do become empty (through usage or a fault), you won't be able to exchange them until you get back to the UK. Historically, UK-built 'vans have tended to be designed around Calor's 7kg/6kg bottle size. In such cases it's most unlikely that Calor's 13kg/15kg bottle can be used instead, but it may be possible to employ the slightly smaller containers available from alternative gas suppliers like Flogas. Using 2 x 11kg Flogas bottles instead of 2 x 6kg Calor canisters will almost double your gas reserves. (Information on UK gas-bottle dimensions and availability can be found in the Caravan Club handbook. This also contains a useful section on Calor bottle refilling in Ireland.)

 

B. Use Campingaz. The price of canisters varies considerably country to country, but it's generally poor value for money. The gas is butane (so unsuitable for really cold weather use) and the biggest bottle holds less than 3kg of gas. But Campingaz bottles are widely available in many European countries and in the UK.

 

C. Use 'autogas'. This is a mixture of propane and butane gasses, with the proportions varying from country to country. UK autogas is close to100% propane and is obtainable as vehicle fuel at many service stations. It's similarly available throughout Europe, though the number of supplying outlets in particular countries varies significantly. To carry the gas your motorhome will require a fixed refillable gas reservoir or you will need to buy a user-refillable gas-bottle. Although the filling-connector is not standardised Europe-wide, the number used is limited to three and adapters are available. (There's a lot of stuff on LPG, autogas, refillable bottles, etc. in the previous forum discussions.) UK service stations selling autogas may prohibit the filling of refillable bottles, but I've never come across this abroad. Having said that, if you ask service-station employees anywhere to fill your bottle for you they will very likely refuse. These are "USER-refillable" bottles and, if you anticipate problems refilling them yourself, you should avoid them. The ratio of propane to butane in autogas is unpredictable and, in extremely cold conditions, this may lead to vaporisation problems for motorcaravanners using this product for 'domestic' appliances within the motorhome.

 

D. Use the exchange-only gas bottles employed in the country where you are touring. Some modifications may need to be made to your 'van's gas-system to allow such bottles to be employed, and what these adaptations are (and how simple the process involved will be) will depend on your motorhome's existing system. It also needs emphasising that UK-built motorhomes with gas-lockers designed around 6kg/7kg (or smaller) Calor bottles may have trouble accommodating European gas containers as these generally have a larger cross-section.

 

Combinations of these options are perfectly normal. So a UK motorcaravanner might use A plus B - a couple of UK bottles with a Campingaz cylinder as a back-stop. Or C + D - an autogas tank for use when travelling around, with a local exchange-only bottle brought into play when your large motorhome (eg an American RV) is campsite parked for long periods and you are reluctant to move it. Or A + D - a twin-bottle system comprising an exchange-only 'foreign' bottle with a UK bottle as temporary 'change-over' back-up.

 

(Exchange-only bottles can be refilled in some European countries. This practice carries inherent risks and is frowned on by all responsible leisure authorities. It may well be illegal (it certainly is in France) and it will definitely break the hire contract regulations for this type of bottle.)

 

It is practically impossible to refill (legally!) a 'foreign' exchange-only bottle in the UK, so European motorcaravanners visiting the UK long-term face the same potential problems regarding replenishment of gas supplies and have the same options as we do going 'over there'. They have some advantages however. The gas-bottles normally used in European leisure vehicles tend to be larger than ours (13kg or 11kg propane instead of our 6kg propane), so they can carry more gas to begin with. Also, simple end-of-hose adapters may be readily available in their native countries to allow connection of UK bottles to their vehicle's gas system. For example, in France, one can purchase a range of adapters permitting a selection of non-French propane bottles to be connected to a French motorhome, or to allow a French 13kg propane bottle to be connected to a 'van with a UK or German gas-system.

 

Just two main gas-pressure standards (28/37mbar or 30mbar) for leisure-vehicles currently exist covering Europe and the UK. (There is also a superseded 50mbar pressure that may be found on older German vehicles.) However, there is a wide variety of national gas-bottle connector types. The UK uses a standard connector for all its generalised propane containers, but several different connectors are employed for our butane bottles. Historically, France had a standard connector for all its 13kg bottles, but the various smaller sized French bottles recently introduced use different connectors. As far as I'm aware, other than Campingaz containers, the only gas-bottle that crosses national frontiers is "Le Cube", a smallish plastic container marketed by Butagaz in France, Holland and Portugal.

 

As a UK motorcaravanner's first venture abroad is usually to France, it's worth looking at the preparations that might be taken for such an initial trip. (For people planning to start off with another country the same basic principles should apply.) Clearly you don't have to take any preparations if you're certain the gas in your UK bottles will last for the full duration of your stay abroad, or you are going to use Campingaz and your motorhome is already set up for this, or you've already got a user-refillable bottle or tank. But if you intend to use French bottles during your trip, or think you might need to, then this might help. (Most French service stations stock gas bottles and obtaining one will involve a deposit for the bottle plus the cost of the gas. However, unlike the UK, the French exchangeable gas bottle market is very competitive and tempting special offers abound.)

 

Essentially, the gas-systems in UK 'vans can be split into two types - Old System (OS), where an on-bottle 28mbar (butane), or 37mbar (propane), regulator connects to the motorhome's fixed gas pipework via a low-pressure hose, or New System (NS) where a 'fixed' bulkhead-mounted 30mbar regulator connects directly to the motorhome's pipework and is attached to the gas-bottle via a high-pressure hose. With OS the regulator and gas must match: with NS butane or propane can be used with the same regulator.

 

If you have OS and use butane, the logical thing to do is to employ a UK 28mbar regulator with a female-threaded connector suitable for Calor's 4.5kg cylinder. Adapters are readily available in the UK to allow this type of regulator to be linked to Calor 7kg/15kg cylinders with 21mm clip-on fittings, or to Campingaz containers with their screw-in connection. So you've got maximum flexibility within the UK. The threaded connection used on Calor's 4.5kg cylinder matches that of French 13kg gas-bottles, so you can connect your UK butane regulator directly to a big French butane bottle without any adaptation being required. If this option is not viable (French bottle too large?), then a 20mm clip-on adapter will allow the regulator to be used on ELFI, MALICE or TWINY butane cylinders or a 27mm clip-on adapter will fit the Le Cube butane container. (Both adapters are available in the UK or in France, but as Le Cube is a unique shape, a French 27mm adapter may be the better choice.)

 

Old System (OS) with propane is trickier, as the UK regulator will have a UK-standard male left-hand-threaded POL connector. In theory it has been possible in France to buy an adapter to convert the UK propane connector to the standard French screw-on fitting. However, I've never spotted any on accessory-shop shelves and distributors were forever out of stock when I inquired about ordering one. So, if you want to employ French propane containers, you'll normally need to replace your UK 37mbar regulator with a French equivalent. You could choose a standard French propane regulator that screws directly on to their large 13kg bottle and use the 20mm or 27mm adapters I've just mentioned to connect to the smaller French propane containers. (Although the connector-type differs according to the bottle-type, unlike the UK it doesn't differ according to whether a bottle has butane or propane in it.) Alternatively, you could replace your regulator with either a 20mm (ELFI/MALICE/TWINY) or 27mm (Le Cube) French clip-on propane regulator. French propane regulators normally seem to be sold without the 'nozzle' for pushing into a flexible hose, but the nozzle is available separately.

 

Similar, but simpler, principles will apply to UK motorhomes fitted with New System (NS). If you're accustomed to using butane, your bulkhead-mounted 30mbar regulator will most probably already carry a high-pressure ‘pigtail’ hose with a female-threaded connector to fit a 4.5kg Calor butane bottle. So the advice for OS butane applies. If you're using propane, then swap the high-pressure hose for the butane one just mentioned. This will attach directly to a 13kg French propane bottle or you can add an adapter to connect to the smaller containers.

 

(A small number of (mainly German) motorhomes use a bottle-mounted 30mbar regulator that connects directly to German propane bottles and uses a low-pressure hose to connect to the vehicle's fixed gas system. You can obtain an adapter to permit this regulator to be used with UK propane bottles but it probably makes better sense to have the system converted to NS with a fixed 30mbar regulator.)

 

Countries like Greece and Italy, Sweden, Spain and Portugal, etc. have their own types of bottle connector. The easiest way to decide what you might need if you wanted to use their gas containers on your motorhome is to obtain a copy of Gaslow's brochure as this lists a wide range of hoses and adapters that can be purchased in the UK.

 

http://www.gaslowdirect.com/epages/cyujrhdmmu67.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/cyujrhdmmu67/Categories

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Seannachie thank you for your supporting and interactive concern. Some corrections: propane has a much higher CV than butane and not vice versa..Some gas school: natural gas comes from underground gas fields as the north sea and the tundra fields in Siberia and Norway to name a few. That gas also used in cars is a methane gas ans has no smell but a chemical is added in the pipelines to smell as natural gas. Their Cv depends on the gas field. The Russian gas is 30 percent more.Propane and butane are LPG gases. liquid petroleum gases normally burned in the air by oil fields in the Arabian gulf area, former Persian gulf named. An oil field has crude oil but always some associated gas. That is the gas nowadays separated from the oil fields.. Derek said that the UK LPG filling stations have 100 percent propane whole season. Anyway check your dometic or thetford fridge and gas burners about this and your hot water boiler and habitation heating running on gas in containers in liquid form.Do not say it is all the same. And leave this to the dealer who you have confidence in them.One puzzle question: In case you have a dual control of two bottles to switch when one is empty Why the left bottle has still some gas of a amount to run a barbeque out of it?

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

And once and for all the safety. Your gas is heavier than air. And is a potential risk. Be sure your gas hob is off in the low stand which is difficult to see in sunlight. All new motor homes have now a smoke detector be sure to change the battery in time.

[Seannachie]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-05-16 6:19 PM

 

... propane has a much higher CV than butane and not vice versa....

 

I'm afraid that you are incorrect; Butane has a higher calorific value than Propane.

 

The CV of pure Propane @ 60 °F BTU/cuft = 2516; whereas pure Butane = 3280 - see, for example, http://www.altenergy.com/downloads/pdf_public/propdatapdf.pdf for confirmation if you do not believe me - (this is the link I also provided above). However, if you still wish to dispute this fact, please cite some relevant evidence rather than just make unsupported statements.

 

Admittedly, pure Propane/Butane mixtures are often not the norm, either at the pumps or cylinders, depending on the source/country/season, so the Wobbe Indices of their contents will also vary but that is not relevant to your claim that one should not use fuels with a different Wobbe Index in the same apparatus.

 

The Wobbe Index of pure Propane and Butane is as I stated above, but it is simply an attempt to compare the calorific efficiency of various fuel mixtures and it does not mean that one cannot exchange one fuel for another, as you appeared to suggest. If one is prepared to accept any increase or decrease in output between changing fromPropane and Butane, then it is perfectly acceptable to do so.

 

In any event, the end user consequences of changing from Propane to Butane are considered to be un-noticeable when the Wobbe Indices are within a 5% range of one another and, whilst Butane has a higher Wobbe Index than Propane - by some 12% for pure gasses - on a pragmatic level, I have never noted any difference in the operation of my fridges/heaters/cookers whether I use Propane or Butane, and I doubt whether anyone else has either (subject only to the ambient temperature being high enough for Butane to vaporise)

 

The fact that Propane is often mixed with Butane explains why in colder weather one can apparently run out of 'gas' when there is still 'gas' in the tank/cylinder. All that is happened is that one has used all of the Propane in the mix, leaving the Butane in the tank/cylinder but that will not vaporise due to the ambient temperature being too low. However, it wlil vaporise when the temperature rises or when the tank/cylinder is warmed up.

 

Nowhere have I said that Propane and Butane are "all the same", so please do not accuse me of having done so. Instead, read what I have actually said and don't put words into my mouth.

 

Now, unless you can cite some valid corroborative evidence to support your claim that "Propane has a much higher CV than Butane and not vice versa", I have nothing further to say.

 

The facts speak for themselves.

 

EDIT: For typos

 

[Robinhood]

Seannachie - 2017-05-16 7:47 PM

 

 

I'm afraid that you are incorrect; Butane has a higher calorific value than Propane.

 

The CV of pure Propane @ 60 °F BTU/cuft = 2516; whereas pure Butane = 3280

 

Now, unless you can cite some valid corroborative evidence to support your claim that "Propane has a much higher CV than Butane and not vice versa", I have nothing further to say.

 

...snipped for brevity....

 

 

......I've been here before in debating the relative costs of Propane and Butane......

 

The argument depends on how you are quoting the Calorific Value.

 

The calorific value by volume of butane is certainly, as you aver, higher than propane.

 

Given that it is commonly bought in cylinders by weight, however, it is quite conventional to quote the calorific value by weight, and that for propane is higher than butane ( though only by around 1 to 2%). This is supported by your own reference if you apply correction for the quoted specific gravities for the two gases.

 

This was first worked out to prove that (at least based on heat output) the price comparison between propane and butane effectively reduced simply to the cost per kg paid

 

 

[Seannachie]

Be that as it may, it has little to do with Monique's claim that we should not change from Propane to Butane because their Wobbe Indices differ, though she seems to have abandoned that claim subsequently.

[Derek Uzzell]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-05-16 7:01 PM

 

...All new motor homes have now a smoke detector be sure to change the battery in time.

 

Might be true in Belgium, but I’m doubtful that new motorhomes sold in the UK are legally required to be fitted with a smoke alarm.