Barryd999 Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 IVe been trying for a while now to get hold of a towing eye for our 1996 Kontiki 640. Log book says its a Peugeot Boxer 320 SWB. Why it says SWB I am unsure as its a long wheel base Alko chassis. Perhaps the original vehicle was SWB. I had a towing eye but a few years ago when we were recovered I think the recovery guy may have walked off with it. There is no fixed towing point that I can see and as a result no way of getting the van towed off if I hit the mud or need recovering. I cannot seem to find one on ebay or anywhere that matches. Could you make one and if so how? I dont even know what size threads it will be. I cannot find any useful info about this base vehicle. I will ring round a few scrap yards tomorrow but i suspect it will be a fruitless effort. Any suggestions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 Barry, How about this one... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tow-hook-towing-eye-ring-Peugeot-Boxer-Citroen-Jumper-Fiat-Ducato-MB-Viano-Vito-/281654830616 And to answer your original question, I doubt you could make one as they are quite often a left handed square section thread. And would you trust potentially pulling 2 or 3 tonnes load through a home made eye? I wouldn't unless it was load tested which obviously would cost! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 Keithl - 2017-05-29 11:46 AM Barry, How about this one... http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tow-hook-towing-eye-ring-Peugeot-Boxer-Citroen-Jumper-Fiat-Ducato-MB-Viano-Vito-/281654830616 And to answer your original question, I doubt you could make one as they are quite often a left handed square section thread. And would you trust potentially pulling 2 or 3 tonnes load through a home made eye? I wouldn't unless it was load tested which obviously would cost! Keith. Thanks. Yes I found that one. When I put my details in though the 320 does not come up as an option and none of the three models when you select the 2.5td engine come up as fitting this towing eye. It appears to be from Lithuania as well. Having said that, from memory it looks like the right one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 29, 2017 Share Posted May 29, 2017 The ‘variant’ of the Peugeot Boxer on which your Kon-Tiki is based can be referred to as a “230” (it’s like Boxers/Ducatos/Relays can be referred to as X244s, X250s or X290s) whereas the 320SWB refers to your motorhome’s Boxer chassis. Back in the 90s producing a motorhome with an AL-KO chassis involved sawing off the original ladder-chassis, attaching the AL-KO chassis to the cab section and then transferring everything useful (wheels, brakes, etc.) that could be removed from the sawn-off chassis to the AL-KO one. It was a wasteful, laborious process and, nowadays (with Ducatos and Boxers at least), cab-units with no rear chassis form the basis of AL-KO chassis motorhomes. So your suggestion that your Kon-Tiki with long-wheelbase AL-KO chassis started life with a Peugeot Boxer short-wheelbase ladder-chassis is probably correct. This 2012 thread http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Check-your-towing-eye/28312/ mentions that there are two lengths of towing-eye - the short one in the advert mentioned above and (presumably) the longer version advertised here http://tinyurl.com/yceoxsxh It shouldn’t be difficult for you to identify whether you’d need the longer eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 29, 2017 Author Share Posted May 29, 2017 Derek Uzzell - 2017-05-29 3:40 PM The ‘variant’ of the Peugeot Boxer on which your Kon-Tiki is based can be referred to as a “230” (it’s like Boxers/Ducatos/Relays can be referred to as X244s, X250s or X290s) whereas the 320SWB refers to your motorhome’s Boxer chassis. Back in the 90s producing a motorhome with an AL-KO chassis involved sawing off the original ladder-chassis, attaching the AL-KO chassis to the cab section and then transferring everything useful (wheels, brakes, etc.) that could be removed from the sawn-off chassis to the AL-KO one. It was a wasteful, laborious process and, nowadays (with Ducatos and Boxers at least), cab-units with no rear chassis form the basis of AL-KO chassis motorhomes. So your suggestion that your Kon-Tiki with long-wheelbase AL-KO chassis started life with a Peugeot Boxer short-wheelbase ladder-chassis is probably correct. This 2012 thread http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Check-your-towing-eye/28312/ mentions that there are two lengths of towing-eye - the short one in the advert mentioned above and (presumably) the longer version advertised here http://tinyurl.com/yceoxsxh It shouldn’t be difficult for you to identify whether you’d need the longer eye. Thanks for that useful information. No matter which one I try on those ebay ads when i put in the 1996 Boxer details at the bottom (There are three models) it says does not fit that model. I am convinced its the shorter one though. will have a look and take the plastic circular panel off tomorrow and post a pic You think it would be an easy item to obtain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Barry It's pretty basic engineering to make what you need. There may be a need to make a go-between item first, i.e an item that threads into whatever female thread you have with a suitable thread on its open end to connect with an eye that's going to be made. Finding what thread is already within your fixed position may be time consuming and would need a good well versed engineer with a multi background to decide on the correct thread. It may be a bastard thread where a company makes its own thread so it cannot be copied. Personally I don't like the idea of a fixed eye shaped pulling arrangement as opposed to a free running loop, but I presume its been tried and tested, any side ways pulling is likely to stress the threading resulting in a failure ... and in fact may be one of the reasons why what you're looking for cannot be found. Will Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 It’s the norm with cars nowadays to have a removable front towing-eye. This improves pedestrian protection, and (possibly more important for the car-maker!) means that there is no ugly metal sticky-out thing protruding through the vehicle’s ‘stylish’ plastic front bumper. A towing-eye for X250 models is mentioned here http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/149-fiat-ducato/98184-x250-front-towing-eye.html and the pitch (16mm coarse) is referred to a Page 2. This link shows images resulting from a GOOGLe-search on “peugeot boxer towing eye” http://tinyurl.com/y8uj3qmj including ‘short’ and ‘long’ versions. On-line adverts suggest that a 1996 Kon-Tiki 640 has the standard Boxer/Ducato front bumper https://www.gumtree.com/p/campervans-motorhomes/1996-swift-kontiki-640-peugeot-boxer-2.5td-6-berth-motorhome-u-shaped-lounge/1128602238 so if Barry removes the plastic cover from the bumper’s towing-eye ‘hole’, it should be evident whether the short version of the eye should be OK or the longer version will be necessary. There’s a good chance that Fiat/Peugeot supplies towing-eyes with the same thread specification and it’s just the length of the eye’s ‘shank’ that changes according to the model of vehicle involved. As Will86 mentions, sideways stress could damage the eye, and the longer the eye’s shank the more likely this might occur. So if a short-shank eye will fit, logically that’s the better choice. I don’t think there’s any real difficulty obtaining a towing-eye suitable for Barry’s motorhome as long as one accepts that information on ebay (or anywhere else) may not be comprehensive or 100% accurate. https://www.letssingit.com/george-gershwin-feat.-maxine-sullivan-lyrics-it-ain-t-necessarily-so-3lwxkjw#axzz4iXpGw6Pp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Even if the original part is no longer available there will probably be no need to make a one off. Myself I would ascertain the thread and purchase a suitable lifting eyebolt, if you are unable to do this, then it's a trip to your local lifting specialist and asking them if they can help. This link will give you an idea of whats out there. http://www.brooksforgings.co.uk/technical-data/industrial-components/eyebolts-eyenuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PJM Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 There cannot be very many variations of towing eye. Can you find someone with a similar base vehicle and try the one they have. I suspect the threads will be the same and you can then ascertain the length required. Towbars2towcars make their own or have them bought in and they may be able to assist with thread sizes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 The best towing eye is on the ford transit and is protuding an visible. It is very strong built to chassis runner. The fiat ducato is just along bolt to be screwd in. Be carefull that it it actually fully used his pitches. In fact they are not towing eyes but a means to put your vehicle forward. and made for transportation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 Thanks again. Went to the scrap yard and they had a box full but none of them looked right so I would have to take the van in and try a few. In the meantime I have been batting emails backwards and forwards to SG Petch who are the main Peugeot Dealer in Darlington (My nearest town 15 miles away) and had what we think was the right eye (long shaft) on Ebay. They can also order in the shorter one that I and someone else linked to earlier. They have tried really hard to ascertain which one it is and the chap there is fairly confident the long shaft one will fit but I think its the short one. :D Anyway they have the long one in stock and he is going to order me in the short one for Thursday morning and has agreed for me to bring the van in and see which one fits and ll just pay for that one. I dont think you can say fairer that that really. If that doesnt work its back to the scrap yard for a rummage with the van. Will let you know how I get on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted May 30, 2017 Share Posted May 30, 2017 Hi Barry I think things are getting over complicated. A - It would be very unusual for Sevel to redesign the Towing Eye at any model change. It's not something that would demand design engineer's time, when they already have a competent functional component that has nothing to do with the actual operation / appearance of the vans. Our 2006 Bessacarr & 2009 Autocruise, both had identical "short shank" but 2012 Adria has the "long shank" BUT ALL were the same thread size & thread length. B - If a "short shank" is available, it may / may not be suitable dependent on how far inboard the fixing point is relative to the exit point through the bumper, whereas If the long shank is available, that will cater for your requirements irrespective of what was originally supplied with the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 30, 2017 Author Share Posted May 30, 2017 flicka - 2017-05-30 6:09 PM Hi Barry I think things are getting over complicated. A - It would be very unusual for Sevel to redesign the Towing Eye at any model change. It's not something that would demand design engineer's time, when they already have a competent functional component that has nothing to do with the actual operation / appearance of the vans. Our 2006 Bessacarr & 2009 Autocruise, both had identical "short shank" but 2012 Adria has the "long shank" BUT ALL were the same thread size & thread length. B - If a "short shank" is available, it may / may not be suitable dependent on how far inboard the fixing point is relative to the exit point through the bumper, whereas If the long shank is available, that will cater for your requirements irrespective of what was originally supplied with the vehicle. Thanks. I suspect your right but the dubious offerings on ebay that had the database to check compatibility all said both eyes would not fit my van but I clearly recognise the shorter one as I had that very Eye and people on here and the guy at the dealers seem to think the longer one will fit so hopefully by ordering both one of them at least should work. If they both fit I might just keep them both anyway. Im not going through this fart on again. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted May 31, 2017 Share Posted May 31, 2017 We stay on dog festivals standing mostly on farmers grass lands. Grass cutted or not. Wet or dry. Whit tricky enrtry slopes. We rely on farmer tractors to get us out not the road assistance they even get stucked or refuse to enter the site. Yes it will be by means of the towing eye. Only a tractor can pull whit its nose and back. Just start your engine and steer in neutral gear. Than your wheels will be moving to solid ground by the tractor. It is common practise. And handbrake should be released in all cases of take off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 I am taking the van in tomorrow now to see if the towing Eyes ordered at the Peugeot dealers fit. However I need someone to give me a kick as I thought it wise to have a look behind the two round plates where I believe the towing eyes go and when I took them off I was presented with a recess with a bolt in there where presumably the towing eye goes. So I removed the bolt with a 15mm socket and its quite long. I cannot see how the short stubby towing eye I recognised (And the one I ordered) would fit in there. It must be the longer one. Why didnt I check first? *-) I have left the bolt out for now, I presume it has no other purpose than to bung up the hole until its needed? Attached are some photos of my findings. :$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Barry, I doubt very much that that is where your towing eye fits! You have an aftermarket bumper fitted and those 2 bolts seem to be the fixings to hold it onto the chassis. They are also too small a thread size IMO. Try looking for a larger threaded hole to your left as you look at the bumper. It may be in between the slats of your bumper. Keith. PS Can you find a similar age Ducato with a standard bumper to see where it goes on that, or maybe Google for a picture? Edit: Are you absolutely sure you need a towing eye? I found a picture of a 2002 Ducato and the towing eye is welded to the chassis below the N/S headlight... http://images.matchapart.com/breakerpro/1235/1235-220815-114915-201-PTIMG.jpg SO maybe yours is hidden? Note the cutout in this picture of a pre 2002 bumper... https://www.247spares.co.uk/res/direct/product_images/5/5abf-600-450-wm-nwm.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 I'd agree with Keith... Just having a quick squint at images of Peugeot Boxers on 'tinternet, and it looks like some have welded loop/eyes...? (hidden by your bumper?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 Oh dear. There is nothing else. Ive been out and looked again and there is no other place for it or an eye fixed under the bumper. Ive put the bolt back in but the bumper was still held fast with it out. Totally confused now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Could it have been cut off to fit the bumper? Is there any evidence on the N/S chassis rail behind the bumper? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 Cant see where it could have been. Im going to drop into my Garage on the way tomorrow and ask them to look. IT must have been used as its been put on a trailer a couple of times and recovered before and once or twice years ago I was towed off the mud. I think I am going mad. I cant see how it could be towed at all without one as a rope anywhere else would rip the bumper off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 My apologies Barry, I've only just noticed that you'd said that you'd had a towing eye, but it's since gone walkies.. Although that bolt dia' does appear punier than the towing eye bolts I've come across, if that's all there is ..and you are sure that your original 'eye would've actually been used, then I suppose it must be those...? (although it only looks to be about 10-12mm ish?) :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Having a older Ford......made back when they weren't afraid to show their eye in public :D ......... I wouldn't be to fussed Barry, as experience with my ex Fanny's numerous breakdowns she was never dragged onto the back of a relay truck with her towing eye *-) ........ They always put a strap around the front axle, I assume this is because they know that often the front cross member on older vans that the eye is attached too is rotten ;-) ......... BTW Hank could do with a bit of a wash & polish to get rid of the dead flies :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Dave, Hank is FWD, your fanny was (maybe still is) RWD, so no front axle as such to attach to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted June 1, 2017 Share Posted June 1, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-06-01 9:56 PM Dave, Hank is FWD, your fanny was (maybe still is) RWD, so no front axle as such to attach to. I doubt that would make any difference, as they'll just put the strap around the drive gear ;-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted June 1, 2017 Author Share Posted June 1, 2017 I really am frustrated with this as I can remember being towed off a few times on muddy fields and once in snow and it was dead easy. I am starting to wonder if I maybe had a fitted eye somewhere underneath but its somehow parted company with the van. I wonder if one can be welded on then. There is just no info in the manual of either the Boxer van or Kontiki which I have the originals for and nothing online. Ill just have to show the garage and see what they suggest. It only became a worry after we needed to be towed off a field last year and there was nowhere to attach a tow rope so had to be towed backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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