Replacing Gaslow cylinders

[Wilf]

I have been looking at the Gaslow website the new R67 cylinders have a 10 year warranty while the old type cylinders had a 15 year warranty.

It says " After 15 years you MUST take your cylinder(s) to your local dealer who will exchange them for new cylinders charging a replacement fee."

Has anyone done this and what is the fee they have to pay. Is it a reduced replacement fee or the full fee?

 

[Robbo]

I sent an email to Gaslow asking about the replacement procedure once the 15 years was up.

 

They phoned me back, and from what I remember, they offered me something like 10 or 20% off the price of a new R67 cylinder. The old cylinder would be picked up by the courier FOC.

 

I originally purchased my Gaslow from an online retailer at a discounted price.

 

Now that my original cylinder has just reached 15 years, I think I'll make contact with the online retailer and ask for advice. I suspect he'll probably redirect me to Gaslow.

 

Another question is whether a courier would transport a cylinder without it being completely purged of gas.

 

Probably easiest solution would be to dispose of the cylinder at the local tip and purchase a new cylinder at a reduced price from an online retailer.

 

I'll email my online retailer tonight and let you know the response.

 

 

 

[Robbo]

Had a response from my online retailer this morning.

 

Apparently, the trade-in offer by Gaslow is with Gaslow direct or via one of their approved suppliers.

 

The Gaslow price for a single 11Kg R67 cylinder is £165. My online retailer can provide this for £154.

 

Suggest the OP contacts Gaslow and asks about the trade-in deal. I get the impression that Gaslow aren't too keen (now) to honour their promise to discount replacement cylinders after 15 years. Their main rival is Gasit, which are generally cheaper, so drop that name into your negotiations with Gaslow.

 

My online retailer is http://www.motorcaravanning.co.uk/shopuk/gaslow_refillables.htm . They also sell Gasit products.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

So a gas cylinder in the uk is also a portable replace bottle in some mtetal and not a permanent gas tank. What a mess you have.

[Wilf]

Thought I'd better come clean John.

I have a Butagaz propane 13kg and a Calor propane 3.9kg as a back up. I don't have a refillable bottle but I have looked at it in the past and recently; but I can't justify the price.

So some years ago I went to Gaslow in Loughborough to see if I could get a better deal. Yes I could get a reconditioned bottle, I can't remember the price then. The reconditioned bottle was the old style with the Calor type circular shroud on the top; but they had cut the shroud off with an angle grinder and spray painted the bare metal. I walked away. Gaslow went on to produce a second type of bottle with just a handle both had a warranty of 15 years.

Gaslow have now introduced a new R67 11kg bottle so I thought about it again. But like you say the Gaslow price is £165. So last week when in Loughborough I again visited Gaslow and guess what still selling reconditioned bottles of the old handle type top, price £95. I asked about a warranty and was told 15 years from the date of sale at the warehouse.

I ask myself are these the bottles that motorhomers have exchanged when the warranty date on the bottle has expired?

So this week I have contacted two large motorhome dealers. The first told me that they are no longer Gaslow dealers. The second although dealers had never been asked about bottle exchange and a replacement fee.

I have telephoned Gaslow as was told that the replacement fee for dealers as not been worked out yet: but if I was to bring my old bottle in and have a new R67 11kg bottle at £165 they would allow me £50 on my old bottle. So I pay £115 and I presume they sell the old bottle at £95, not bad!

 

As Monique Hubrechts says :- So a gas cylinder in the UK is also a portable replace bottle in some metal and not a permanent gas tank. What a mess you have.

This made me think refillable bottles have a life date of 10 years, what about under slung permanent gas tanks. I can't for one minute imagine exchanging a permanent gas tank after 10 years.

 

Will I be having a refillable bottle soon? NO not until I over winter in Spain perhaps but that's a few years away yet.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

Gaslow systems and the testing/recertification/exchange of user-refillable gas-bottles were discussed at some length in these 2015 forum threads

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Hints-and-Tips/Is-fitting-a-Gaslow-system-a-good-idea-/37405/

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Hydraulic-testing-of-refillable-gas-bottles/37497/

 

The Safefill company (that markets in the UK composite user-refillable gas-bottles) used to advise that metal gas-bottles needed testing/recertification at 10 year intervals, whereas composite bottles only required this every 15 years. Nowadays Safefill states (in their website’s FAQ section) "As with most cylinders current guidelines require a recertification at 10 years”.

 

It’s interesting to learn that Gaslow offers reconditioned bottles, though an asking-price of £95 for an ‘old style’ Gaslow bottle lacking the improved features of the present R67 design (eg. an accurate contents-gauge) has got to be joke. The cheapest supplier of R67 bottles I’m aware of is this one

 

https://gasproducts.co.uk/caravan-marine/gaslow-refillable-gas-cylinder-systems.html

 

Assessing the financial benefits of a user-refillable gas-bottle is tricky. There will be a significant initial outlay (say £150 for an 11kg Gaslow R67 canister) plus the potential cost of additional parts and installation, but the buyer of a user-refillable bottle owns it (not hires it like a Calor bottle) and (based on occasional ebay adverts) depreciation of refillable bottles is relatively low. And, of course, autogas is considerably cheaper litre-for-litre than ‘bottled gas’.

 

I don’t really understand Monique’s comment, as the type of gas bottle used in motorhomes (whatever the vehicle’s ‘nationality’) plainly is not a permanent gas tank in the same way that an underslung tank attached to the motorhome’s chassis is. The “Gas Light” bottles she uses are not ‘permanent gas tanks’, nor are UK Calor bottles. Nor is my Rapido motorhome’s Gaslow R67 refillable bottle ‘permanent’, and I’m sure I can remove it from the vehicle’s gas-locker just as quickly as she can remove one of her “Gas Light” bottles.

 

Safefill user-refillable bottles (that employ the same composite container as “Gas Light” bottles, but with a specialised filler-valve) are advertised as meeting a user-requirement to be able to carry the bottle easily

 

http://www.safefill.co.uk/our-cylinders.html

 

and these youtube video-clips show Safefill bottles being refilled by taking them to an autogas pump (presumably at a service-station where that practice is acceptable).

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lL1qzLvdh9M

 

So there’s absolutely no doubt that the Safefill company considers its user-refillable bottles as ‘portable’ not ‘permanent’.

 

There are countries (eg. France and, perhaps, Belgium) where a user-refillable gas-bottle may be treated as if it were a permanent tank, and I understand that this was why Gaslow altered their canisters to the R67 design to allow them to be marketed in France and legally installed in French-registered leisure-vehicles.

 

I don’t view the French ‘refillable bottles are tanks’ stance as particularly rational, though insisting that the installation of a user-refillable gas-system (bottle or tank) be carried out professionally makes good sense. But French (or Belgian) gas-bottle-related regulations that differ from the UK’s rules don’t automatically turn the UK rules (such as there are) into a “mess”, nor vice versa.

 

[colin]

monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-07-04 4:38 PM

 

So a gas cylinder in the uk is also a portable replace bottle in some mtetal and not a permanent gas tank. What a mess you have.

 

It matters not if the tank is a so called permanent tank strapped under the vehicle or a removable tank fitted in the gas locker, it will need inspection after a fixed period. I would guess replacing a Gaslow or Gassit will be much cheaper than replacing a fixed tank.

[Derek Uzzell]

The following link may be of interest

 

http://www.bcga.co.uk/pages/index.cfm?page_id=88

 

It’s probable that the cost of testing/recertifying a motorhome’s fixed LPG tank would be significantly higher than testing/recertifying a user-refillable LPG bottle, and there’s no doubt that a fixed LPG tank would be more expensive to replace than a bottle.

 

I suspect the reality is that motorhome fixed LPG tanks rarely (if ever) get periodically checked/tested using the procedures mentioned in the above link, and that the same thing applies to user-refillable gas-bottles. How many motorhome owners (or motorhome dealerships) are aware of the 10-year rule? How many will be concerned provided that the motorhome’s gas system functions OK?

[StuartO]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-07-08 11:08 PM.......I suspect the reality is that motorhome fixed LPG tanks rarely (if ever) get periodically checked/tested ....and that the same thing applies to user-refillable gas-bottles. How many motorhome owners (or motorhome dealerships) are aware of the 10-year rule? How many will be concerned provided that the motorhome’s gas system functions OK?

 

I was aware of the ten year rule and when ten years loomed I did ask the dealer who supplied the installation.  But he didn't know who offered the testing service and he'd obviously not had any tested, despite long years in the trade and an otherwise diligent approach to doing the job. 

I've never seen any of these coloured/shaped plastic rings which indicate the year when retesting is necessary for a cylinder either.  Shouldn't new Gaslow refillable bottles come with these in place?

 

As you say Derek, most MH refillable installations will remain untested indefinitely for lack of awareness of the need and lack of facilities to get the testing done.  I looked at the websites of a couple of the authorised testers on the VCA list via your link and they are clearly big inductrail locations geared up for testing batches of rental bottles on contract rather than testing bottles for individual motorhomers.

 

So, there appears to be no enforcement of these regulations at all and we motorhomers are being left to decides for ourselves what to do.  What does happen if a propane cylinder fails in service?  Is there just likely to be a slow leak and a smell of gas which you might notice eventually or is there a significant risk of a big bang?

 

[Wilf]

Derek Uzzell - 2017-07-08 8:08 AM

 

I suspect the reality is that motorhome fixed LPG tanks rarely (if ever) get periodically checked/tested using the procedures mentioned in the above link, and that the same thing applies to user-refillable gas-bottles. How many motorhome owners (or motorhome dealerships) are aware of the 10-year rule? How many will be concerned provided that the motorhome’s gas system functions OK?

 

So Derek suspects a user owned refillable bottle or gas tank may never be checked; I think he is probably right for the first to fail in the system is most likely the hoses and unions.

 

But what about exchange bottles are they checked?

Just checked my Calor 13 kg propane bottle; a bit tatty and dinted with numerous thick coats of alternative blue and red paint for propane and butane refills. I found the year date 1974 that's 43 years old. Surprisingly Calor have three blank spaces for dates of repair: All blank on this bottle, so Calor must expect a long life.

 

Just checked my Butagaz 13kg propane bottle which was exchanged in September 2016, although its heavily dented along the bottom edge all works fine. I was very surprised to fine a date stamp of "ANNEE 1957" that's 60 years old but that's the French if it's not broken why try to fix it.

 

PS

If my Calor 13 kg propane bottle has been checked there are no dates displayed on the bottle. Are the bottles checked every time they are refilled? I doubt it for some could end up being checked every few weeks?

 

[Steve928]

Wilf - 2017-07-08 3:25 PM

 

If my Calor 13 kg propane bottle has been checked there are no dates displayed on the bottle. Are the bottles checked every time they are refilled? I doubt it for some could end up being checked every few weeks?

 

Calor's next check date should be on the CD-size alumium disc beneath the valve. If returned for refilling before that date then it is simply refilled. If the date is due (or close, presumably) then the inspection/test routine is something like this; valve out, visual inspection, water pressure test, repaint, fit new date disc, refit or replace valve, fill and away it goes.

 

If yours doesn't have the aluminium disc then that would indicate that it has been away from a Calor service centre for a good number of years..