Nmcd1963 Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Hi all. We bought our 2003 Rapido 709f about 6 months ago and have been using it almost every weekend with no issues what so ever. Last week we set off on a trip around Scotland and part way through found first the ceiling lights in the seating table area first keep going off after about 5 mins now won't work at all and the same with the two lights in the bathroom. All other lights work fine. Also around the same time the 2 12v sockets in the TVs cupboards also stopped working or at least the power dropped on each of them. There was enough to light the light on the 12v plug but not power the TVs or even USB charger for phones, that just st flickered. Has anyone had any experience of this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Hi Nick and welcome to the forum, First question in troubleshooting electrics is what is your battery voltage? Both what the display panel shows and actually measured at the battery terminals with a multimeter. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted September 5, 2017 Share Posted September 5, 2017 Also, were you using a mains connection, and do you know the age of the leisure battery? See where we're going with this? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmcd1963 Posted September 6, 2017 Author Share Posted September 6, 2017 Battery shows 12.4 on the panel and the same on the multimeter, it does the same even when on hook up. Everything else works fine . Will be checking the circuit board under the bed at the weekend. Another strange thing is on the fuse box under the bed there is a red led showing behind aux fuses which should indicate a blown fue but the fuses are fine, hence my thoughts l ading toward the board itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 6, 2017 Share Posted September 6, 2017 Nmcd1963 - 2017-09-06 8:29 PM ... Another strange thing is on the fuse box under the bed there is a red led showing behind aux fuses which should indicate a blown fuse but the fuses are fine,.. OK but how are you checking the fuses? The way I would suggest is turn on the control panel and relevant load and then, leaving the fuse in situ, test for voltage at both ends of the fuse. Connect the black lead of your multimeter to a good clean ground and then use the tip of the red probe inserted into the small hole on the back of the fuse by the amp rating.number. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 I am led to believe that the Rapido 709f may be fitted with a CBE electrical system, with which I am familiar. The CBE unit will shut down when the leisure battery voltage drops to 10.6V. This in my opinion is far too low, as it represents a disaster level. The quoted battery voltage of 12.4V, is perhaps with no substantial load applied? It is too low to fully charge a battery, and if is as stated this voltage is the same when on EHU, then somthing is very wrong with the charging system or battery. Much depends on the pattern of use of the vehicle. Do you stay in one site on EHU, or are you driving for several hours each day, when EHU should not be necessary to keep the leisure battery charged. As has already been said the leisure battery is a prime suspect, and will have suffered, if it has been discharged to the cut out level. Is it possible that the mains charger has been either been inadvertantly switched off, or has blown a fuse when overloaded by a deeply discharged battery? What is the leisure battery voltage with the engine running? Is the 50A fuse connecting to the vehicle electrics OK? The fact that some lights continue to function may be due to the fact that Rapido may have connected these to the vehicle battery. Or that they are connected to a "B2 Direct" output of the distribution board. To sumarise investigate the leisure battery, and charging systems first. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyishuk Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Nmcd1963 - 2017-09-06 8:29 PM Battery shows 12.4 on the panel and the same on the multimeter, it does the same even when on hook up. Everything else works fine . . On EHU, I would guess the voltage should read about 13.6v ? Rgds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 tonyishuk - 2017-09-07 12:51 PM Nmcd1963 - 2017-09-06 8:29 PM Battery shows 12.4 on the panel and the same on the multimeter, it does the same even when on hook up. Everything else works fine . . On EHU, I would guess the voltage should read about 13.6v ? Rgds Yes Tony, I would agree with that, but could be slightly lower once battery has been charged. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmcd1963 Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 Yes it is A CBE system Sorry I meant the same problems occur when on hook up not the voltage remains the same. We very rarely use hook up other than at home to cool the fridge before a trip. Once running it shows around 14v and on hook up about the same may be 13. something. We don't tend to stay in one place so it is constantly being charged when we are driving. I have checked to circuit board under the bed (fuse box) and all appears to be clean but there was one loose connection now soldered and there is a relay which rattled as if something was loose inside so a new one has been ordered so hopefully will fit that tonight. Fingers crossed. If it doesn't work then I may be stuck as the whole box itself doesn't appear to be available anymore. Thanks for all advice so far will keep you posted if I manage to solve it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 There is little published information regarding CBE systems, and some of that is questionable. From looking at the Rapido Manual online, I believe you have the DS520 distribution board similar to that on my 2006 IH Tio R. CBE supply customised versions of their systems to converters / manufacturers so there could be some differences. Based on my own deductions, and some info on a french website relating to the smaller DS 320, I have made a diagram of the fuse and relay positions on the board. At the top of the board partly hidden by the fuses are two roughly cubical relays. That on the left I think controls the supply to fuse positions 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7. The relay to right controls fuse positions 13, and 14. (Lights). Below the fuses are three orange coloured DIL relays. The single one on the left, I have assigned to control fuse position 1. (Logical guess.) Towards the right are two adjacent relays. I think that LH one controls fuse position 11 (awning light on my vehicle). The RH relay of the pair is probably controlling the simulated D+ output from fuse 15. A little lower down the board left of centre is another cube shaped relay, which I believe is the fridge relay. Down again and further two the right, is the pump relay, with the larger split charge relay below it. Finally in the bottom RH corner is the B1 mains charge relay, with the current limiting PTC thermistor above it, and the blocking diode is adjacent There is some discrete electronic circuitry on the distribution board, but this may be limited to relay drivers. The controls for most if not all of the relays must originate the logic / display unit, This could be another area to investigate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmcd1963 Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 The board is a DS520 RA so different to what you are describing I think. There only appears to be one relay on the board. I have managed to get full power back to the sockets 12v and the lights came on for a period of time and then went off as soon as I switched the bathroom lights on. The fuse isn't blowing so it as if something is tripping but I can't find anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 7, 2017 Share Posted September 7, 2017 Is it possibly tripping out on low voltage? What is the battery voltage as it trips out, and does the voltage recover after it has tripped? Try with EHU and the charger turned on and see if it still trips? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmcd1963 Posted September 7, 2017 Author Share Posted September 7, 2017 Voltage is fine at 12.6 and does the same with ehu on. Finds no it totally strange just can't fathom it out. I can put the pump on, heater blower on, all other lights on at the same time. But wth just the seating area ceiling lights and bathroom lights on it appears to trip out but everything else continues to work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted September 8, 2017 Share Posted September 8, 2017 If you google DS320 images, you get several decent pictures along with all the irrelevent items. Try DS520 and useful images are minimal. The DS320 images show different levels of relay population, including one which lacks a battery coupling or split charge relay. Perhaps DS520 variations are similar? If the problems manifest themselves when one group of lights is switched on, perhaps it would be informative to check the load current increase when these lights are energised? Given the age of the vehicle, it may not have a CBE "Boite de Securitie" which contain a relay, freewheel diode, and fuses. If one of these is installed it the B2 connection, it may be worth checking the soldering on the PCB. (Another member of this forum had trouble with the fridge discharging B2 (habitation) battery when engine running. Traced to poor quality soldering on relay PCB for vehicle battery (B1), so alternator output was not supplying fridge load.) Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nmcd1963 Posted September 9, 2017 Author Share Posted September 9, 2017 Sorry you are right I was expecting to see the inch cube relays seen this small ones now but it is now all sorted. Having resoldered a two pin lug back on the board and replaced the big black relay the 12v sockets now work and as for the lighting I traced the wires back to an area behind a box section in the wardrobe where there is a multiple plug with +&- going on one side connector was very loose. Thanks for every bodies advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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