Lithium Batteries - The honest Truth?

[Agaric]

Sits down, gets out the popcorn.

[Charles]

Agaric - 2017-10-25 1:19 PM

 

Sits down, gets out the popcorn.

8-) LOL, he's not going to be happy. :-S

[Billggski]

(I said he manufactured Li-ion, but wouldn't put any lithium battery in the hands of Joe Bloggs)

£200,000 moho's are presumably set up properly by someone other than Joe Bloggs. ??

[michaelmorris]

This is a really interesting thread. I have learnt a lot, the main lesson being 'keep it simple!'

[aandncaravan]

Don't just get the Popcorn ready, fill that Beer glass and get a few bottles ready, this could be a long one!!!

 

 

1. You clearly don't remove many 110Ah batteries from Caravans and Motorhomes.

Battery megastore list the Hankook 110Ah battery as 23.2kg, see :

https://www.batterymegastore.co.uk/leisure-batteries/all-leisure-batteries/hankook-xv110.html

Admittedly it is 0.2kg higher than my quote, but quite close?

 

As for a Bee in our bonnet about Roadpro, we did not mention Roadpro in our post AT ALL.

 

We were asked to comment on a Roadpro product, which we did impartially, without any marketing bias.

I don't see any derogatory comments in relation to Roadpro, in fact I don'r see in my text ANY reference to Roadpro.

 

 

2. Good point, so to clarify, “Do Any MAINSTREAM Motorhome Manufacturers either Fit Lithium as Standard Or Recommend them in MAINSTREAM products?

 

 

The EZA that was down to half capacity was on a van built in Germany and installed by the Dealer there. As you will be aware we specialise in German, French, Italian,. etc. Motorhomes so see quite a few imports.

It came to us because no one else would touch it.

I was curious, but wouldn't take on another.

 

 

By 'Down to Half Capacity' we meant :

When the Lithium battery was fully charged and then drained, the Battery management system stopped any further power being taken when only half the rated Ah had been taken out.

 

 

You write, "If the EZA batteries didn’t do what is claimed of them, do you think that these manufacturers would be using them?".

My honest answer is YES, as amply demonstrated by the Hymer fiasco using AGM batteries without AGM chargers. Only 12 months down the line did they realise they hadn't done enough and rushed out AGM chargers.

 

I think recent history has several documented instances of companies mis-selling products for money with zero integrity.

 

 

3. Yes, we do know a little about Battery Management Systems. They are effectively enhanced 'battery chargers' with preset limits on the power that can be put in or drawn out.

 

Being Battery charger repairers of almost all manufacturers from around the World we appreciate more than almost anyone how fragile they can be.

 

So to put £3,000 of 'battery' into the hands of a little resistor in the Battery Management Sytem, seems barmy to us.

To have a charger malfunction and overcharge a £100 battery would make me sad.

To have a charger malfunction in the BMS and destroy a £3,000 'Lithium Pack' installation would make me cry.

 

We write, at great length, earlier in this Post about the function of a BMS, and it's absolute criticality to a Lithium power packs lifetime.

 

You write, "He’s (Allan by the way not Alan) also correct that, if a lithium battery is installed incorrectly, it just won’t work as it should and, indeed, could be damaged. So, always use a supplier who knows what they’re doing".

 

 

That was also one of my points, that in order to integrate any Lithium power pack you need to understand in absolute detail EXACTLY how the existing Power controller/battery charger works.

So since you mention it, please can you explain how you would integrate a Lithium power pack with a Schaudt Eleltroblock EBL 220 and still retain all the existing functionality?

 

 

4. That is an interesting question.

LiFePO4 is all about super long life so how can anyone write accurately about a product with a supposed ten year life when it has only been installed a few months?

 

I also note none of them have compared their Lithium setup to a much more cost effective 4,500 cycle life Gel battery, which is :

 

1. Massively cheaper

 

2. Easy for Fred the Caravan man to install and maintain.

 

3. Integrates perfectly with ALL existing Motorhome Lead Acid battery installations, just a little bit heavier.

 

 

As for being installed by many varied specialists, I can think of no reason why a true technical specialist would choose an unproven £3,000 Lithium Power pack with a claimed 3,900 cycle life versus a £590 Gel battery with a history backing up it's 4,500 cycle claim.

 

One tiny little malfunction and the £3,000 Lithium is scrap. It is that critical.

 

With a Victron Long life Gel battery you lose "only" £590.

 

Once a Lithium pack is installed 'Manuel Motorhomes in Barcelona" won't be able to easily just fit any old Wet Acid battery so I can finish my holidays. The existing pack will need to be de-installed.

Manuel will take one look and either make it all worse or walk away muttering.

 

That is putting a huge amount of faith in electronics, which we all know doesn't have a 100% reliability record in Motorhomes.

Ask anyone with a Sargent ECxxx just how many times a year they perform a 'Reset' when it goes wrong.

"Oops, sorry, little bug in the firmware in the BMS, just 'reset' it, the Lithium battery might not be totally damaged, but if it is kaput, it's only another £2,000 to put right".

 

 

A lot of faith behind a product whose true capability won't be known for 10 years, and must take a lot of B%lls to go into print putting your pen behind it.

 

So to come back to your question,

"Why is it that so many of the people who write for MMM (including some of their most knowledgeable technical specialists) have installed them".

 

I honestly have absolutely no idea.

 

However, I hope those experts are prepared to underwrite their edorements to anyone who suffers in the future?

 

 

Of course if the Warranty was all encompassing and lasted 10 years on the Lithium Powerpacks out there, that would be different. If it included a Technician with a spare Lithium on his back flying out to Spain to rescue you if it broke, etc. that might be different?.

 

But the ones I have seen, like the one Derek publishes, seem to be very tight with numerous restrictions and an extremely short warranty period of time for a product with 'claims' on such long life.

 

Isn't that odd?

Doesn't that sound a bit like a manufacturer saying, " we know it might fail and will cost an arm and leg if it does, so lets keep our risk to a minimum by keeping warranty short". "We can put in loads of restrictions so they won't even be able to make a claim during the warranty period". "Cushty, Rodney"

 

How can a product with such claims of massive lifetime have a shorter warranty than a Hankook Wet battery?

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Sorry Andy Harris, I didn't address one other point you brought up :

 

 

" 8) Alan again gets into a tizz when he refers to the information on the RoadPro website. Yes, we know that an LiFePO4 battery can be damaged if treated in certain ways. So can any piece of equipment and that, again, is why it’s important to get a lithium battery installed by people who know what they’re talking about".

"Why pick on LiFePO4 batteries?"

 

 

Why? Because when things go wrong the consequences are huge. If a £65 wet battery gets drained too low by being left all Winter, as they do, it's a shame, but not a disaster.

If a dual Lithium pack is left to self discharge to 1v it is a £3,000 disaster, not just an inconvenience.

 

 

As we point out at the very beginning of the thread the company marketing that particular LiFePO4 pack are not just making wild claims, but using absolute lies to draw people in.

Please read it and tell me their marketing is 100% fact?.

 

 

The NDS instructions specifically state that the battery pack should be taken off charge when the battery is full.

Explain to me how that works with a Motorhome left on permanent EHU which is not only an 'accepted practice' but endorsed by almost every Motorhome/Caravan Dealer in the land?.

Solar too, will permanently charge the Motorhome during daylight hours..

Something Lithium batteries really, really, really don't like is long term maintenance charging

 

Both things will, according to NDS, shorten the batteries life.

Just 'normal Motorhome use' could cut a Lithiums life by half.

 

Yet that major issue isn't covered in any marketing we have ever seen.

 

Nor is it generally covered that while discharging down to 90% might be feasible, there will be a penalty in fewer life cycles.

Again, that is in the NDS document, not in the marketing.

The marketing leads people to believe you can discharge to 90%, it doesn't say you may lose half the cycle life if you do.

 

These two Lithium 'features' can easily result in a Lithium delivering no more cycles than a Exide Gel battery at £150!!!

 

 

We don't think the marketing for Lithium Iron is accurate or fair, that is why we trying to present what we think is a more realistic view.

 

 

Poor or inappropriate Batteries give us more charger failures than any other issue.

You will note on the website we publish LOTS of what many might hopefully describe as new 'insight' into batteries; like our AGM battery webpage, Wet Acid batteries and even Gel batteries.

 

I don't see it as "Why pick on LiFePO4 batteries?", but telling it like it really is about ALL batteries.

 

 

 

 

So Charles, you are right, "He won't be happy", but look, notice that despite the personal attack, there is no sarcasm at all in my reply?

 

Feeling very calm tonight. Must be the sudden cold weather making the Bees sleepy?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

This post has been good in that around 10 people have written to say thank you for presenting a different view on Lithium Batteries, where they then go on to select Victron Long Life Gels with 4,500 cycle life.

However, we have also had 3 people ask if we can supply Victron Gel batteries as we obviously like and recommend them.

 

While they are a much more cost effective and reliable option to Lithiums in a Motorhome, they are not what we recommend for most Motorhome owners.

There are batteries that outperform the Victrons Long life Gels on everything but their extra long 12 year life, for more see our Battery Technology page : http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/battery-technology.php

 

 

Can I also repeat we don't sell batteries of ANY kind so you can be sure our battery advice is not financially motivated or marketing driven.

 

 

 

For a Victron battery supplier see this Victron web page : https://www.victronenergy.com/batteries/gel-and-agm-batteries

and click on the Green 'Where to Buy?' graphic.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[kevina]

Are people really buying 6 x 49kg 2v long life gel batteries which are over 2ft high? Or are they buying standard Victron 12v deep cycle gel batteries, same as the ones I have been using for the past 5 years?

 

[aandncaravan]

Kevina, Probably the ones you have? The ones we are generally referring to are the likes of the 110Ah Deep cycle Gel in a 'compact' size of 330 x 171 x 220mm.

But the big super Long Life Gel's are available if you need that capability. Neither recommended by us, as we say above, but an option to the complexities of Lithium in a Motorhome.

 

There are also the Spiral batteries of course.

 

 

The 'new' Victron Energy 'Super Cycle' Wet Acid battery that is both designed and guaranteed to discharge to 100% DOD, and still give useful cycles is also a 'conventional size'.

 

 

 

The Lithium Battery webpage is now pretty much complete, possibly a better, more informed and upto date assessment of Lithium Ion's in all their forms. http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/lithium-batteries.php

 

 

 

[Billggski]

Just add to the debate......

(I thought it was a spoof at first)

[aandncaravan]

Billggski - 2017-11-12 3:49 PM

 

Just add to the debate......

(I thought it was a spoof at first)

 

 

I love the way the giant Speaker blocks the Air vents for the charger/Inverter!!

 

Bit of a faf every time it goes into Winter storage if that is what the LifePo4 supplier recommends?

 

 

[Billggski]

Loose batteries in a wooden cupboard, wires all over the place with an old plastic bottle, speaker blocking access to the charger, (no lithium setting), spanners liable to arc across terminals!

What did I say about not trusting Joe Bloggs to set up lithium batteries?

[aandncaravan]

Billggski - 2017-11-12 6:40 PM

 

Loose batteries in a wooden cupboard, wires all over the place with an old plastic bottle, speaker blocking access to the charger, (no lithium setting), spanners liable to arc across terminals!

What did I say about not trusting Joe Bloggs to set up lithium batteries?

 

 

Billggski, I agree, but be careful or you will attract Roadpro's Andy Harris's wroth again, because you are talking about the 'wrong' batteries. (lol)

 

He was wrong by the way, as you know Lithium Ion Batteries are a group of batteries which use Lithium Ion 'chemistry'.

LiFePo4 are just one of that group of technology and it is a Lithium Ion battery (Li-ion for short), it just has traces of Iron Phosphate as well in it's make-up rather than the usual Cobalt, etc.

 

Andy Harris wrongly wrote above -

" 7) Billggski refers to Li-ion batteries. Again, we’re not talking about this kind of battery Bill!".

 

 

When he criticises me for not knowing my facts on how heavy a typical Motorhome battery is (as if we haven't handled any, let alone cut open hundreds!!!), to not know what he is selling is a bit weak.

:$

 

Notice how, apart from getting it wrong on battery weight and the technology, he additionally doesn't accurately 'rectify' one assertion any contributor makes?.

 

Doesn't challenge any real facts at all.

 

 

Just goes on about the Bees!!.

 

 

 

[Billggski]

Careful, you're starting to get a bit emotional about this issue.

Lithium based batteries will have their place eventually, but as original equipment fitted properly by the manufacturers. This video shows what is happening at the moment, just wiring them in as a direct replacement by non experts. The cost will come down, the expertise improve, and some of the claims proved or disproved.

 

[aandncaravan]

Sorry that was the Bees in my Bonnet getting a bit too excited, they have calmed down now, but I will change my hat.

:D

[aandncaravan]

Last week we saw a Motorhome fitted with a Lithium battery and charging system where the £2100 solution had failed after 2 1/2 years, and while still under Warranty (just) the suppliers were not being helpful.

Partly because different bits of the solution had been installed by different companies as the 'Prime' supplier had subcontracted the Alternator charging solution to another company and were blaming them for the failure, etc.

 

The poor Motorhome owner was savvy enough to realise the enormous costs involved in putting it right, most likely meant that the suppliers were going to fight 'Tooth and Nail' to get out of spending £1,000 + to fix it.

After 6 months of getting nowhere he contacted us to convert it back to a Wet Acid battery solution.

 

The Lithium battery had been bought on the basis that it would save weight and cope better with very high discharges.

Lithium will cope with High discharges, but at the expense of lifetime. Giving up 200amps for extended periods of time for a Microwave, etc. is going to place a massive strain on everything, especially the Lithium Battery Management System (BMS) electronics. Lifetime is going to be very short.

 

Yet the 'solution' was sold on exactly this basis, bringing us back to the marketing 'misinformation' that started this thread.

 

After two and a half years of such use the Lithium battery had failed, we suspect the electronics in the BMS had given up the ghost.

Not quite the 10 year + lifetime the purchaser expected.

 

 

The solution was very professionally installed, but was a technical mess. A Lithium battery has to be isolated from all the existing electronics to protect it. Yet modern Motorhome installations are designed as an integrated solution. So all the bypasses put in place to install the Lithium meant that the Motorhome owner could not just go back to a Wet Acid battery to replace the Lithium.

 

The split charge relay had been bypassed by the Sterling B2B install. For some reason the original Fridge 12v operation had also been bypassed by a separate relay, no idea why, so a really complex install.

 

To properly convert back to Wet Acid meant a total de-install of all the Lithium equipment and wiring.

 

The owners total outlay for 2.5 years worth of Lithium experience will probably be well over £3,000 by the time the Motorhome is converted back to two Wet Acid batteries.

 

 

I wasn't going to report the above, but today I have had another Lithium battery email that says :

 

"Hi Allan, I'm still pursuing the weight savings being offered by a lithium solution.

Someone on one of the motorhome forums suggested that I look at the Schaudt Booster product which fits between the alternator and the distribution system and overcomes the issues........

Having done a search I came across a page on your website which contained the technical info regarding the WA121525.

Is this the product that I need as it appears to have a lithium charge function. I haven't found an english translation but does it give a similar charge value to the Sterling product?".

 

 

I am a bit stunned by this because by the time the additional B2B charger, 40amp + charger and the heavy 200amp rated cabling is all in place, a Lithium install is heavier.

That was very evident by the earlier install we saw.

A Lithium battery might start off at 5 kgs lighter when compared on a straight battery to battery basis, but when installed into a Motorhome with all the accompanying paraphernalia it ends up with no real weight saving at all.

We had already relayed this to the enquirer some months ago, and tried to correct the advice he had received that his CBE 516 charger would work fine with the intended Lithium battery, but he seems determined to continue.

 

 

Some Lithium batteries include the 'protection' electronics inside the battery casing. They will 'shutdown' the battery to prevent it being over discharged, over charged etc.

In the first example above we suspect the Battery Management System electronics had 'faulted' and were preventing the Lithium cells from being accessed to protect them. The cells may have been ok, but once the BMS gets a 'Bee in it's Bonnet' that it needs to protect the Lithium cells, the battery is unusable.

 

 

Can we suggest that whatever you do, never buy a Motorhome equipped with a Lithium battery pack. Getting it fixed is a technicians nightmare, that means huge cost.

 

 

If you like the Motorhome, get the seller to put it back to standard before you buy.

 

 

[aandncaravan]

Some other poor person has just found out how short the warranties are on £2,000 Lithium powerpacks.

 

Derek documented part of one of the Warranties above that contained lots of exclusions, but have you heard the tale about the man who missed his annual lithium battery check, so the warranty became totally void after just 12 months?

 

Have a read of one of the warranties, go to the Roadpro website and read the warranty for the Eza130 Lithium (2 year warranty) or NDS Lithium (3 years).

Note that if you miss the compulsory annual battery check, the warranty becomes void.

 

2 years warranty on a supposed "10 year life" product is poor.

 

 

One other point also discovered today is that even when the battery itself may be guaranteed 3 years, the complex installation work itself is only guaranteed 12 months.

So what happens when incorrect installation causes the demise of the Lithium battery but this is not discovered until after 12 months?

Yes you guessed correct : the battery warranty becomes void through incorrect installation, and because any guarantee on the installation work has expired..........................

 

 

Felt sorry for the owner, but not getting involved in these until Motorhome manufacturers start installing electronics and the infrastructure to support Lithium batteries. We suggested a case for the Law Courts.

 

 

[kevina]

Hmmm, that's all fair enough but you might to view Charles Sterlings recent battery test performed over 200 harsh discharge and recharge cycles comparing a standard lead acid, AGM, Lead Crystal and LifePO4.

 

 

Start at 9 minutes to get the quick answer.

 

I wish he had tested Gel as well but I would presume it would come in somewhere above the AGM.

[plwsm2000]

kevina - 2018-05-11 4:57 PM

 

Hmmm, that's all fair enough but you might to view Charles Sterlings recent battery test performed over 200 harsh discharge and recharge cycles comparing a standard lead acid, AGM, Lead Crystal and LifePO4.

 

 

Start at 9 minutes to get the quick answer.

 

I wish he had tested Gel as well but I would presume it would come in somewhere above the AGM.

 

I would not call that a "harsh" test. I would call it serious abuse of batteries. Discharging batteries to 10.5V is even more than 100% DOD which is well known to destroy normal batteries PDQ. This is not a reasonable comparison IMHO.

 

Even if a Lithium battery was 10 times as good as a gel in normal use (to justify the cost), a typical 5 year life for a gel would give a 50 year life for the Lithium. In 50 years time, I won't be worrying about this too much.

[aandncaravan]

Kevin, every Lead acid battery manufacturer on the planet says that for maximum life, 50% Depth Of Discharge should be regarded as the maximum they should be discharged, or shortened life will result.

That is universally acknowledged on almost all informed websites around the world.

For a budget battery that is 12.1v and for Gel or AGM it's around 12.5v, see Yuasa chart below.

 

We have published manufacturers graphs for batteries that will give over 1,000 cycles at 25% DOD, 450 cycles at 50% DOD but only a handful of cycles if discharged to 90% DOD. See below.

 

As plwsm2000 notes, 10.5v is well more than 90% DOD and into battery destruction territory.

 

 

To carry out such a battery test is like testing cars that have a 1 ton Carrying capacity, filling them with 3 tons of bricks and then saying, "look the cars didn't do very well in the test, everyone one suffered suspension damage".

It's not excusable by saying, "it's a valid test because three people in the country every week do try and fill their car Boot with 3 tons of bricks".

 

 

Note how the Lead Acid battery technology with the deepest discharge capability, Gel, was absent from the test?

I also love the way they used a top quality, big name, high technology Wet Acid battery to represent the breed. Or rather didn't.

 

If it isn't a rigged test to favour the outcome they wanted to achieve, exactly as per all the 'marketing' that started this thread in the first instance, then the only thing Mr Sterling's test demonstrates, is just how little they really know about Motorhome Leisure batteries.

 

[Derek Uzzell]

In March 2018 Monique mentioned Hymer’s Smart Battery System that includes lithium batteries

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Hymer-Smart-battery-charging-/48911/

 

and there’s a more detailed description here

 

https://www.hymer.com/en/models/technology-plus/hymer-smart-battery-system.html

 

Having been developed by Hymer the system will have been intensively tested so that it can never go wrong. ;-)

[aandncaravan]

Derek, Thank you, I didn't know of that.

 

It appears to be integrated with the Schaudt Elektroblock EBL power control/charger unit, so hopefully the specialist charging required by the batteries will be in place along with all the correct size wiring, Alternator, etc.

So you are probably right, if it is integrated correctly with the right infrastructure built around it, it would be expected to be reliable.

 

But it still begs the question of how long is the warranty and what happens if it does fail outside warranty? Can 'Manuel the motorhome man' just swap out the Lithium pack for a temporary Wet battery if it fails while on holiday in Spain or does it require specialist technicians/parts?

What is the cost of a replacement Lithium pack when it fails in 10 years time? If it is £1,500, that is a heck of a running cost.

Also unlikely that the £3,000 initial investment in Lithiums will still return £3,000 when you come to sell. I would suggest such complexity/running cost would actually devalue the investment. So that is hefty depreciation and with the Lithium replacement cost of £1500, a potential 'running cost' totalling £4,500 over 10 years.

 

Or to look at it another way, if the cost of the technology to maintain a couple of extra nights Off Grid camping, costs more than it does to stay at a good campsite isn't it self defeating? £4,500 pays for an awful lot of stays at a campsite to recharge a more conventional set-up with a lot more 'comfort'.

 

A simple twin wet battery set-up that gives 3 days OG followed by one nights paid stay at a camp site will give you a total of 200 x 3days free and 1 paid day stays, or 800 total days camping.

That fourth paid day gets you free water and a 'Waste empty', free showers, security, 230v to recharge the batteries, etc.

Some people are spending a fortune to go Off Grid 'for free'!!.

 

 

Hymer are also playing the marketing game by listing all the so called advantages without also listing the potential downsides, like running costs.

 

The Hymer comparisons/advantages are still versus low cost AGM batteries, If the MH owner switched to the best of lead acid technology, almost the same number of cycles and Off Grid (OG) time could be achieved without complicated charging or wiring issues. Victron claim 2,500 cycles for their Gel's.

A quality Victron battery solution would get very close to the power and life of Lithium for a quarter of the cost, still about £380 a 100Ah battery but a lot less than Hymers Lithium at about £3,000?

 

Hymer claim the Lithium option weight saving is little more than two bags of Sugar, which seems to put the advert that started this thread into perspective, remember it's fictional 5 times lighter claim?.

 

 

 

But thinking outside the box at the lowest cost option for OG, a third of the cost good mains charger set-up and a super quiet Honda Eu10i generator running from the Gas barbecue point will give UNLIMITED time Off Grid, versus just 6 days OG before the Hymer Lithium solution needs a recharge at a camp site.

A Honda Eu10i run for just 2 hours a day (a 2 hour window when no other motorhomes are around) can supply up to 60Ah a day for the use of next to no gas, even all the way through Winter.

Most people would get away with just 1 hour a day generator running time in the summer months.

 

A £700 generator has much lower running costs, gives 230v for Microwaves, and 12v for TV, etc. for minimum running time. It also has close to zero depreciation, as the solution moves with you to the next vehicle.

But the best thing is that, aside from a second battery/mains charger, it doesn't require any mods to the motorhome at all. The technology can be easily fixed by Fred the mobile motorhome man.

 

As anybody who has bought a heavily modded second hand van will tell you, a standard van is worth paying extra for.

 

 

 

 

[Guest pelmetman]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-05-12 8:55 AM

 

Having been developed by Hymer the system will have been intensively tested so that it can never go wrong. ;-)

 

That'll be a relief to Hymer owners ;-) ........

 

Knowing that when the EU bans them from the road they'll have a reliable four wheel caravan (lol) ......

 

 

[Alanb]

aandncaravan - 2018-04-20 9:52 AM

 

The split charge relay had been bypassed by the Sterling B2B install. For some reason the original Fridge 12v operation had also been bypassed by a separate relay, no idea why, so a really complex install.

 

 

There may be other methods, but I would expect the installation of any B2B charger to bypass the split charge relay, otherwise the split charge relay will connect between the input and output of the B2B, rendering it ineffective.

 

When installing a CTEK D250S in conjunction with my existing CBE DS520 distribution board, I did not want the greater part of the output from the D250S going into the fridge, via the CBE internal split charge and fridge relays. The solution was a separate fridge relay with C/O contacts in the wire to CBE input with the normally closed contact connected to the CBE B1+ve terminal. This preserved the mains charging and voltage indication facilities for the vehicle battery (B1), as well as avoiding the D250S output going into the fridge.

 

Alan

 

PS I have prepared a detailed drawing of the complete charging installation for my own reference, and that of any future owners. If the D250S were to fail, I can revert to the original state with a few bolted connections.

[aandncaravan]

This technician had no where near your skill level.

 

Leaving the old Split charging in place won't necessarily render the B2B ineffective, it depends on many things. But where the B2B is being used to provide a higher voltage to the Leisure battery, this higher potential difference will prevent the old lower voltage Split charge system from coming into play to any real extent.

If you imagine it as different water pressures, the higher 'pressure' B2B voltage will block the lower 14.4v Alternator power from flowing.

 

 

The Fridge supply cabling on this particular system is used to both register the Starter battery 12v status on the display and charge the Starter battery via mains operation.

When the Fridge operation was bypassed, both these functions were lost.

 

They also omitted any safety fusing to the new fridge feed.

 

 

Not very clever. Clearly didn't have a clue, so not a surprise it failed.

 

Also not surprising the Prime contractor was blaming the sub contractor who did all the Alternator side, but I suspect they subcontracted the work because they didn't understand how things linked together either.