baden87 Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Hi guys i was out at weekend and when it was time to empty the loo there was quite a bit of fresh water under the handle at the spout end(incidentally this flush is supplied from the main water tank any ideas ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Sounds like a leak in the flush system, possibly at the electronic flush valve or where the pipework connects with the toilet flush outlet. Suggest you first remove the toilet seat and cover. Then remove the rectangular cover. This should then give access to the pipework surrounding the electronic flush valve. Operate the flush button to check for leaks. This advice is based on a Thetford C-250CS. It would be usefull if you advised your model reference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 ok thanks for that its a c200, could it be rain water getting past the door seal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Assuming it is colourless, dip yer finger in the water and smell it or taste it and that will give you an idea where it is coming from. If it has tinges of blue or pink that too is a give away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 Hi thanks it's clear and the contents of the waste were very dark blue,I'm just not sure whether it's rain water Or when it's flushed I've looked but cannot see anything as of yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikethebike Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 Hi On our toilet which is supplied with flush water from the main tank I also noticed water gathered around the opening flap. I have now decided it is water that has drained down the bowl after flushing and is lying at the bottom of the bowl. When I remove the toilet for emptying this water is lying on top of the flap and just needs draining off as its just flush water nothing nasty. Hope this makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted September 13, 2017 Share Posted September 13, 2017 mikethebike - 2017-09-13 9:20 PM Hi On our toilet which is supplied with flush water from the main tank I also noticed water gathered around the opening flap. I have now decided it is water that has drained down the bowl after flushing and is lying at the bottom of the bowl. When I remove the toilet for emptying this water is lying on top of the flap and just needs draining off as its just flush water nothing nasty. Hope this makes sense. Mike, I always open and close the blade from inside the MH before removing the cassette for exactly this reason! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 13, 2017 Author Share Posted September 13, 2017 I get you about the flap ,but this is under the handle , if it were a separate tank I would put some pink in and trace it from there , I’m thinking of putting a small amount of food dye in to diagnose it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 Any pictures or diagrams where the pipe work connects up to the flush mechanism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyLou Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Keithl - 2017-09-13 9:28 PM Mike, I always open and close the blade from inside the MH before removing the cassette for exactly this reason! Keith. I always leave an amount of water in the bowl after use to act as a smell buffer, a bit like a U bend does. Is this ok to do? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Andy&Lou - 2017-09-18 3:11 PM I always leave an amount of water in the bowl after use to act as a smell buffer, a bit like a U bend does. Is this ok to do? Andy I can see your reasoning but if the seal is good enough to retain water in the bowl, then I would've thought it should be good enough to contain any smells......maybe...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 baden87 - 2017-09-13 10:20 PM I get you about the flap ,but this is under the handle , if it were a separate tank I would put some pink in and trace it from there , I’m thinking of putting a small amount of food dye in to diagnose it Being that close to the trap door I would suspect the door rubber seal? Does it get water inside when it isn't raining? You could run a seal of wide masking tape round the outside of the access door and see if it still does it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 18, 2017 Author Share Posted September 18, 2017 It peed it down all day and night Friday and Saturday, I tried pouring water from watering around access door but not a drop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Does the water appear only when it's raining, or only after you flush the loo, or all the time? Is it worse when on the road or parked? If you can identify when it is worse maybe emptying the fresh water tank would help you determine whether it is from an internal or external source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I recently had exactly the same problem. Leaving some water in the bowl with the blade closed - having first dried the cassette - identified the blade seal on the cassette as the problem. Though it looked to be in good condition it was not making an adequate seal with the bottom of the bowl and was letting water past. I changed the seal and all is now well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keninpalamos Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 This is a leak from the flush system. There are several pipe connections above the cassette, a one way valve and the solenoid electric valve which is a cheap and cheerful piece of plastic and metal. Then the short piece of pipe work from this valve to the flush "jet" on the toilet bowl. I would be inclined to remove the bowl to look for the leak but get someone to operate the flush while you check for any drips with the cassette door open first. Removing the bowl is not to difficult as it rotates so all four screws are accessible plus the blade operating mechanism ( two or three screws if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 baden87 It might help if you identified (via your forum Profile) the make/model/year-of-manufacturer of the motorhome you own, but I’m guessing that you’ve still got a 2008 Auto-Trail (No idea which model). Thetford marketed two versions of the C-200 toilet that flushed using water from the leisure-vehicle’s main fresh-water tank. These were the C-200CS that had its control-panel in the top of the toilet’s rear moulding (1st attached photo) or the C-200S that had a remote control-panel and no rear moulding (2nd attached photo). I suspect Auto-Trail would have fitted the C-200CS. I’ve never had rainwater penetrate into a toilet cassette-locker through the locker’s door and, even if rainwater did pass through the door seals, I can’t envisage it ending up on top of the cassette. You should easily be able to assess the possibility of this happening, though, by squirting water at the door with a garden hose. Water can leak into the cassette-locker when the rubber ‘lipseal' in the top of the cassette becomes worn or damaged and, after 9 years, it may be worth you replacing the seal even if this proves not to cure the present problem. Has the problem just shown up and how much is “quite a bit of fresh water under the handle at the spout end”? There is a tendency for some water to end up occasionally on the top of a cassette (This happens with my C-400 toilet) without there being a fault, but if a lot of water has suddenly begun to collect under the handle and did not previously, the type of flush-system leakage mentioned above may well be the cause. Thetford used to offer comprehensive illustrated instructions on-line on how to repair/dismantle their toilets. That file seems to have disappeared, though some of the content is still available (example here) https://www.caravansplus.com.au/pdf/thetford/thetford-repair.pdf Nowadays Thetford prefers video-clips https://www.thetford-europe.com/product/c200/ How to remove the toilet bowl and access the electric flush-valve and hoses is shown here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
p3a2i7t8sy Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 Hi, make sure there's not any toilet tissue trapped at flap after using the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 20, 2017 Author Share Posted September 20, 2017 Hi under the handle is full of clean water , I suspect it’s from the flushing pipes , as you rightl say it’s unlikely The the rain could have got that far back from the door seal I need to investigate this further , I’m out in it at Lincoln show this weekend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted September 20, 2017 Share Posted September 20, 2017 The most frustating tool of a motorhome. The cassette will be out, and tanks are tested. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 21, 2017 Share Posted September 21, 2017 baden87 - 2017-09-20 2:36 PM Hi under the handle is full of clean water , I suspect it’s from the flushing pipes , as you rightl say it’s unlikely The the rain could have got that far back from the door seal I need to investigate this further , I’m out in it at Lincoln show this weekend If you do as Ken suggested above, you should be able to confirm where the water that collects on the cassette is coming from. I’d remove the cassette, put something to catch water under where the toilet-bowl exits into the the cassette-locker and then operate the flush repeatedly. Dismantling the toilet should be straightforward, but you don’t want to do this if it’s not necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 21, 2017 Author Share Posted September 21, 2017 Hopefully I will look at this weekend ,not too sure I know where I’m looking ?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baden87 Posted September 24, 2017 Author Share Posted September 24, 2017 I have had a look this weekend and I can’t find any problems , but there was water in the usual place on Saturday morning ?? I haven’t got a clue how to trouble shoot this now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowie Posted September 24, 2017 Share Posted September 24, 2017 Hi Paul; I had a similar sort of problem, water appearing outside the cassette, clean water, not urine, not noticeably flushing water. Mine's a "bench seat" version, and water was appearing outside the plastic front panel. After considerable observation, extreme irritation and frustration, I had the "lipseal"? replaced and the problem was solved. I shall include lubrication of this seal on my maintenance list. I should note that the unit is only just over one year old, so I think a defective seal was to blame. Have you ever lubricated or replaced this seal? Regards Alan b Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted September 25, 2017 Share Posted September 25, 2017 In my posting of 19 September 2017 7:49 AM above I suggested that baden87 might consider replacing his toilet-cassette’s lip-seal (as this is now 9 years old) as a precautionary measure even though this might prove not to cure the water-on-the-cassette problem. This YouTube video by John Wickersham explains how to replace a Thetford C-200 toilet’s lip-seal There are plenty of other video-clips about ‘refurbishing’ a C-200 cassette, but replacing the seal is pretty simple. The attached photo shows the top of a C-200 cassette and baden87 has emphasised that water is collecting beneath the cassette’s handle and that the water is clear. When the cassette is inserted in the cassette-locker the cover above the rubber seal slides towards the handle/emptying-spout and the seal should then make good contact with the underside of the base of the toilet-bowl. If water is left in the toilet-bowl, or not allowed to completely drain into the cassette after flushing, if there’s a poor seal between cassette and toilet-bowl water should be expected to leak on to the cassette. As has been advised above, there’s the possibility of there being a leak in the pipework above the cassette that supplies flush-water. This is an attractive alternative theory to lip-seal failure as the water that leaked would be clear and could collect under the handle and not elsewhere on the cassette’s upper surface. It ought to be straightforward to identify whether the water is leaking from the flush-pipework or from the lip-seal, but if that proved difficult I’d be tempted to replace the lip-seal (as that’s easy) and hope this cured the problem, before choosing to dismantle the toilet to access the flush-pipework. My Hobby motorhome had a C-200S toilet and I don’t recall any water being on the cassette’s top during the 9 years I owned the vehicle. As I’ve said above, a small amount of water occasionally appears in my present Rapido’s cassette-locker and I assume this passes through the cassette’s seal. Filling the toilet-bowl with water shows no obvious sign of leakage and the amount that gets into the locker is so small that I’m prepared to overlook it. However, the Rapido has a Thetford C-403L bench-style toilet that differs significantly from C-200 swivel-bowl models. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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