Mike88 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 pepe63 - 2017-10-11 9:14 PM Here's a..*cough*... "whisper quiet" Honda generator.... ..it doesn't sound very..sorry...I SAID IT DOESN'T SOUNDS VERY WHISPER QUIET TO ME... ;-) Exactly. And the OP wants a not too expensive generator so the Honda is not even an option. If he opts for something cheap he will end up with the kind of smokey appliance that is anti social wherever and whenever it is used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-10-11 8:35 PM I will now put on the Body Armour as well as Grandad's Tin Hat. I'm not sure what you've posted applies to OP, but there does indeed seem that some are going to extremes to get 'free' power. For us in present van one panel and one battery does what we want for almost every trip we've made, and being self contained with no need to set anything up suits us fine. If we wanted to stay in one spot for several days in middle of winter we would indeed need some way to charge the battery, the one time this has happened we choose a site with EHU. (note we do also use EHU where it is indivisible part of pitch fee). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 pepe63 - 2017-10-11 9:14 PM Here's a..*cough*... "whisper quiet" Honda generator.... ..it doesn't sound very..sorry...I SAID IT DOESN'T SOUNDS VERY WHISPER QUIET TO ME... ;-) The video shows a EU 1000 (rated at 59bd) not the EU10i (rated at 52db) and you will note that in the Video the exhaust faces towards a 'sound reflecting' building, not towards a sound absorbing surface. You will also note that the one in the video, has it's throttle wide open, not on a low revs tickover, as the EU 1000 does not have the eco throttle feature which can reduce noise by half. It also doesn't have on the Rain cover we speak of either, all of which can make a difference of dropping the noise, literally, by more than half. However, I don't think anything that anyone can say will make any difference to some? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Had someone email this morning to say that they like the idea of using a Honda EU10i as a battery booster running for 2 hours every 3 days but they also want to run a Microwave. So they need a 2,000watt generator and what can we recommend. We replied we don't recommend any thing bigger than the EU10i because of the Noise, weight, fuel consumption, etc. But in anycase a Honda EU10i will drive almost anything with the right set-up in the Motorhome. For example : There is a very good Victron Inverter/Charger that installs just after the EHU cable entry point, continually sampling the 230v into the vehicle. In the event that mains power is interrupted it will take over and run the vans 230v mains appliances from the 12v batteries. It is also monitoring the 230v demand in the vehicle and if demand goes above that available from EHU, like in the case you only have a 5amp Bollard or the Generator is only 900watts, the Victron will use the 12v batteries to make up the shortfall. So in the event of a 900watt Microwave running from a Honda EU10i where for the first 2 seconds it might require 1,300 watts 'start-up' power, for those few seconds the Victron will make up the shortfall of 400watts. Once the microwave is running and settles down to 900watts, the Victron automatically switches back to the generators 900watts coming in on the EHU point. The switching from mains to batteries and back again is so fast, your TV picture will not even flicker The load on the batteries is only for seconds so no real impact on battery lifetime. Once there is 'spare' 230v power available, the 70amp charger built into the Inverter (whole thing costs about £600) will use any spare 230v to charge the batteries. If you are on a 3amp Bollard in Portugal, you can set the Victron to draw no more than 3 amps from EHU so it won't trip the Bollard when you accidentally use 4 amps. Real World example : About 6 months ago we had a Motorhome in with a 3,000 watt Inverter that kept 'failing'. He was on his second one and that would only run for about 2 minutes before shutting down. It turned out not to be a fault in the Inverter but his 10 month old batteries. During testing the 300Ah AGM battery bank dropped to under 10 volts in less than 90seconds when running the Microwave. His third set of batteries in six years at a cost of 9 batteries at £160 each = £1,440. He was clearly disappointed with the running costs of the setup, which started off with 2 Solar panels and just 'developed'. As they do. The Solar panels were already down to about 80% efficiency and the Solar regulator not helping either battery life or maximising efficiency. We suggested the Victron Inverter and a Honda Eu10i as most of the time his real load on the Inverter was around a 1,000 watts, sometimes rising to 1,500 watts for a few minutes. Because the 3,000 watt Inverter was only rated at 79% efficient, he was 'losing' at least 20% in addition to the 1,500 watts he was drawing. So a 1,500watt draw meant 1,800 watts out of the batteries. Running from the Honda would result in just 650watts being taken out of the batteries, making a massive difference to battery life. When drawing 1,000watts, almost all would be supplied by the Honda. He used the Inverter an average of 4 times a day for 15 - 20 minutes, so a big load on the batteries, hence the short life. Very different to his original perception, "we don't use the Inverter much and only then for a few minutes". It's not work we do, but he got 'his local man' to set it all up and contacted us recently to say how pleased he was. The Victron Inverter/charger, something like this : http://powersavingsolutions.co.uk/product/victron-multiplus-c-800va-12v-inverter-charger-1/?gclid=CjwKCAjwpfzOBRA5EiwAU0ccN4zXlF_wSuZYlgiBvd-5Pu3gLV9lYRyBFFfiCLZAVnqdZlC9VdacthoC6fwQAvD_BwE is very easy to install AND remove to transfer to the next vehicle. Please note the apparently 'similar' Sterling units are not in the same league. The Victron Inverter/Chargers have up to 70amps charging capability built into the unit, so very fast recharging is available. Along with the vehicle existing charger that is the potential to put up to 45Ah into the batteries in just ONE HOUR with the right battery set-up. Compare that to the average Solar setup of just 4.4Ah for a WHOLE DAY in December. Because both items easily transfer to the next vehicle, depreciation is almost zero, and you are left with an 'unmolested' Motorhome of optimum resale value. I accept it is not for everyone, but most don't realise there are a whole host of options to the Solar bandwagon and it's meagre output in Winter. We are not pushing this because we want the work, it isn't work we would take on. While this might appear to 'go off track', the original OP possibly wanted a 2,500w Genny for a similar reason to the email we received? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Unless there was any overriding reason for using a microwave I'd have advised to use gas for cooking and in doing so save a couple of grand as well has having to carry around extra equipment which needs setting up. We've hired RV's with 'nukes' and very rarely used them, we do use a 'nuke' at home for some things and have considered them for the van, but decided that being mostly off EHU a nuke is more hassle than it's worth, we adapt seamlessly to only using gas appliances, but then gf and myself have a great deal of experience of living off grid, in fact when we moved in together was the first time gf had lived in a house with mains electric. Sometimes it seems to me that people are so used to there mains appliances they don't seem able to live without them, I saw a post once on another forum of the amount of electric 'gear' someone was loading on their van, to me it was staggering that any one would want to carry so much stuff around. p.s. maybe I'm becoming a grumpy old man and a dinosaur to boot. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muswell Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 colin - 2017-10-12 12:04 PM p.s. maybe I'm becoming a grumpy old man and a dinosaur to boot. :D Not at all. We managed for 10 years in a van without even an EHU. The only electrical drain was the lights and the heater and we moved around enough to keep the battery charged. Even now we only need EHU to save gas on the fridge and water heater. The simple life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-10-11 4:22 PM You shouldn't need to charge batteries while in storage. Good, modern batteries shouldn't discharge over the Winter if they are isolated. Batteries like the Varta LFD and Bosch L range stay charged for 6 months, they have one of the lowest self discharge rates of any battery. All you need to do is fit a battery isolator to the post of the Starter battery and Habitation battery bank. If you can a do 3 month charge it would be a good idea, but not essential. The isolators in the attached photo are about £4 on eBay, they just bolt onto the battery post, very easy to fit. You isolate the battery by unscrewing the Green dial, and if you then hide that Green Dial it acts as a Theft Deterrent. To recommission the vehicle just refit the Green dial and away you go. Take all this on board - I am thinking of purchasing one of these generators reasonably soon, - for our next van, (beginning to think about upgrading the van) this sounds like a reasoned approach, our current van does have solar, it is a "straightforward" installation, one battery, one 140w panel and a voltronic regulator hooked to our Schauld unit. - Not planning any additions, and not very keen on inverters in general. Currently solar is doing almost everything I want, with the exception of charging much in wintertime which is where the generator would come in. - We could "dip" a toe in the generator world, and if it isn't for us for any reason, I could sell it again for nearly as much as we bought it for. If we use it considerately and with a rain cover, hopefully our neighbours wont be too put out. - Best price so far for a Honda EU10i I have seen is £725. Unless or until something goes wrong with our solar on the current van - which eventually it will, I wouldn't plan to take the solar away, but it's a fair option moving forwards on a new van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I can see the economic reasoning behind the generator idea, even if it is a lot of money for a small gain in convenience, but what nobody has mentioned is the storing of it, as even a small genny is not exactly small. Fine in a coachbuilt with a large locker with a large opening and plenty of spare payload, even if it might be behild the rear wheels which is hardly ideal, but much more of a challenge with a small coachbuilt or panel van? Many years ago when life was much more simple we always carried an extra unconnected spare battery next to the leisure battery and I switched terminal connections when the first was failing and bench charged either or both as needed when we got home. These days a built in Ctek 5 amp mains charger would save the lifting and carrying of batteries. Having diesel heating means a large current is needed to fire the boiler and that might dictate battery and charging regimes, unless a gas heater is fitted - still less expensive than solar or generators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Tracker, it actually works the other way around, the Honda is a bit bulky but less weight than a good 100Ah battery. A 4 battery, 3 x 100w Solar Panel solution with B2B, a 2,000w Inverter will take up more space and weigh getting on for 200kg. A 20kg (13kg dry weight) Honda EU10i versus Solar will not only save money and overall space but a lot of weight. I used to Caravan many moons ago in a van that had a single 12v light, 2 gas lamps and a Foot operated Water Pump. Loved it. But it wasn't long before my Wife wanted 230v for Hair dryer, curling tongs, TV, etc. Things have moved on a lot and while some are happy to have next to no 12v or 230v capability, there are those want everything. Horses for Courses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tall_Mike Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 Just looked it up - The Honda weights in at 13k - maybe another 4 or 5kg for fuel, - Wouldn't think that the Solar Panel, plus substantial cabling, plus the regulator weights much less, admit that siting a potentially hot and smelly generator after it's been used could be an issue, think we have room in the gas container for the petrol can - and it's well vented by it's nature, could possibly move out one of the cylinder's which don't smell and store the generator ( only when it's stone cold) in it's place (maybe) - the gas cylinder could go elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 12, 2017 Share Posted October 12, 2017 I understand what you say Alan but not all vans have a 15" aperture into a sealed, petrol fume proof exterior locker. Having experimented with solar on previous vans, we managed well without any additional power sources with two 90 amp leisure batteries and a 650 watt inverter (for low power 350 watt hair dryer mainly!) on our last van. Admittedly winter use for more than a night or two was never on our agenda! Had we needed more 12v for longer periods I was toying with the idea of reverting to my old system of carrying a spare battery and only connecting it if needed. We too used lights, chargers, tv/dvd player etc and never felt the need to lash out huge sums for extra power? But as you say - horses for courses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 There is an offer on at the moment where Caravan and Motorhome Club members can get a £100 discount on the Honda Eu10i at Honda Dealers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocs Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Tall_Mike - 2017-10-12 3:41 PM Just looked it up - The Honda weights in at 13k - maybe another 4 or 5kg for fuel, - Wouldn't think that the Solar Panel, plus substantial cabling, plus the regulator weights much less, admit that siting a potentially hot and smelly generator after it's been used could be an issue, think we have room in the gas container for the petrol can - and it's well vented by it's nature, could possibly move out one of the cylinder's which don't smell and store the generator ( only when it's stone cold) in it's place (maybe) - the gas cylinder could go elsewhere. No need to worry about smelly petrol as these generators can be run on gas from your normal bottles. That's how I run my Honda. See http://www.justgenerators.co.uk/honda-eu10i-lpg-inverter-generator.html#.WeOeGrHTWhA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archiesgrandad Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 I am inclined to be on the side of the generator mob, but as we don't have a van at the moment, but I like to keep up with the times, so I got to thinking about how much charge you could get from the Honda suitcase type if you put it through a decent charger. Using OHMS Law, watts/volts = amps, so 1000/14.5=69. Could you really charge your habitation battery at this rate from a 1kw generator? AGD PS: I realise that there would be loses due to resistance from various sources, but even so, that's a pretty healthy charge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyboyprowler Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 This has proved interesting reading, both from the practical point of having a generator and the ethical point of noise and disturbance to others. I am considering a generator for use off grid, for general battery charging, and heavier use in summer for powering an A/C unit. I would be going for a 3kw unit, possibly built in, but preferably the "quiet suitcase type". As this thread was some years ago, and technology has moved on, I would be interested to hear the current thoughts on both the benefits and of course the downsides of owning and using a generator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Nothing has changed. No miracle silent generator invented. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
niktam Posted November 19, 2019 Share Posted November 19, 2019 Does any one take a couple of earth pins with them to earth the jenny? Mind the water pipe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 20, 2019 Share Posted November 20, 2019 The Caravan Club’s 2010 generator-related guidance included advice on ‘earthing’. https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/media/1022760/portable-mains-generators-mo.pdf As far as I’m aware nothing significant has altered since then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curdle Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 I read this older thread with great interest. If Italy does not lock down in December I am travelling to Corsica (from Livonia) and thence to Sardinia. From what I can see there can be little or no dependence on electrical hookups. I read aandncaravan's posts with great interest and determined that a Honda eu10i to be the most beneficial to keeping me charged in wild camping sitiuations. I can run the generator anywhere at any time without annoying any fellow MHomer's. What I am curious about is charging the batteries. Is it best to just plug into the 16A MH mains feed from the standard 13A plug on the Honda or given that it can charge directly with DC cables rather connect directly to the battery? aandncaravan suggested a second charger to speed up the charging, but if you were using the main feed, I am not sure how that would be feasible unless it were permanently installed for a second battery? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Currently you will have no neighbors on Sardinia. Just read a report from a guy who spent last month there and saw a handful of MH. But a lot of police checking up on him in the remotest wild camping spots. Campsites etc. all closed so getting water etc. requires resourcefulness. He used 5 liter jugs to fill up. Getting rid of waste water was less of an issue as he has an incinerator toilet. Don't know about Honda generator DC output. Unless it can function as a charger, not just a constant supply, I'd be careful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 There’s a longish Caravan and Motorhome Club article (including technical caveats) about portable generators on this link https://www.caravanclub.co.uk/advice-and-training/technical-advice/portable-mains-generators/ Also a late-2019 Clive Mott piece here https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/how-to-generate-power-in-your-motorhome-and-campervan As Allan Evans said on this aandncaravanservices webpage http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/generators.php A proper 230v Generator would almost always be connected via the mains 240v EHU socket and that’s been how the (albeit few - Thank God!) portable generatorsI I’ve seen used with motorhomes have been connected to the vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curdle Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 Do you have a link to the report? If not, do you know if the police were agitating for him to move on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mtravel Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 curdle - 2020-11-12 8:16 PM I read this older thread with great interest. If Italy does not lock down in December I am travelling to Corsica (from Livonia) and thence to Sardinia. Livonia? Did you mean Livorno (Leghorn)? Check well. The current state of covid sees Italy divided into red, orange and yellow zones. Veneto is about to become one but the Lombardy and Piedmont that you will have to cross are already red areas. This means that you cannot leave the municipality of residence. Probably you, a foreigner, will be able to move but beware the risk of being blocked in Sardinia exists. In Sardinia, to my knowledge there are only two campsites open 365, Flumendosa in Pula (south) and Le Cernie in Donigala (halfway up the island on the east coast). More or less equipped stopovers can be found in the www.campercontact.com/en database Generators: Let's assume that in one night you use 40Ah, a more than plausible amount and that you will have to restore. If your charger is a classic 16A (more or less) your generator will have to stay on for almost four hours. This every day. Max Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curdle Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 mtravel - 2020-11-13 7:42 PM Livonia? Did you mean Livorno (Leghorn)? Check well. The current state of covid sees Italy divided into red, orange and yellow zones. Veneto is about to become one but the Lombardy and Piedmont that you will have to cross are already red areas. This means that you cannot leave the municipality of residence. Probably you, a foreigner, will be able to move but beware the risk of being blocked in Sardinia exists. Thanks Max, yes I meant Livorno. My ferry bookings are flexible since I knew I was taking a chance that things could get worse and that is even assuming France does not extend their current restrictions beyond their planned easing on the 1st December. Your point about the battery charging time is well taken. This is why Allan Evans in his detailed post suggested a second charger so that two batteries are charging in half the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grumpyman Posted November 13, 2020 Share Posted November 13, 2020 They're a pain in the backside if you are on a site. I had a slight difference of opinion on a site in Scotland once. The comment from the owner was I won't be able to watch the television. The warden then became involved who told them to move further away or turn it off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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