euroserv Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hello Campers, Today i am asking for some assistance from you guys! I have several 7.5T trucks that only go out on hire from time to time but i keep them 'just in case'. The problem i have is that due to the permanent current draw from the tachograph and a couple of other semi-active circuits that can't be isolated; after a few weeks, the batteries need charging and if i am not quick enough to do that; batteries have to be changed. Not good. The setup is 2 x 12v 110ah wet batteries in series. I need to know what current would be required from a charger to at least maintain them and nopefully charge them very slowly. I have seen a 3 stage charger of 5A that i think would charge slowly and then switch to 'maintaining'. I already have 40A chagers and 180A boosters but they are overkill for this and can't be left attached for more than a few hours/minutes. Can anyone tell me if that seems about right? Thanks Nick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Sounds good to me B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Sorry Nick I am no expert but to ascertain the battery discharge when parked and locked up can you insert a digital multi meter between the battery terminal and the battery lead with everything else as it would be when parked? The meter should be overload proof but just in case I would be inclined to set it to a higher amperage then reduce the setting if the discharge is less just to avoid any possibility of damage to the meter. A quick look at Ctek or Ring 24 volt chargers reveals that they are not cheap! Hopefully one of our resident electics experts will be along shortly! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Hi Nick, I would recommend a CTEK charger which includes a maintenance mode where it basically switches off and monitors battery voltage until the voltage falls below a preset level when the charger resumes charging. These chargers can be safely left connected indefinitely. You will have to select a charger suitable for your batteries capacity. I assume your truck operates at 24 volts and hence the batteries are wired in series. If so you will either need a dedicated 24 volt charger or you will have to wire a separate charger to each battery as you cannot connect one charger to both batteries whilst wired in series. Keith. Edit. Just noticed that Nick did say 2 batteries wired in series! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 I presumed in my answer that Nicks 5A charger is a 24v one. I can't imagine standby currents being any where near 5A. Won't hurt to measure it though, I'd use/get a DC clamp meter for ultimate convenience, you can quickly check all the trucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 13, 2017 Author Share Posted October 13, 2017 Thanks for the comments so far. Yes it's 24v The current draw varies but generally less than 150 miliamps but over a few weeks that makes a dent! The charger that i am looking at states max 5A charging, then a 'low' setting and a 'float' setting; all automatically. Detailed information is surprisingly lacking for RS components but the price is attractive at about £65.... My worry is that if the float or minimum is too low will it actually contribute to the discharge of the batteries? I don't know much about these things. I tend to stick to oily bits. I am off home now so won't see any further comments until monday but thanks in advance. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witzend Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 If their parked outside perhaps a small solar panel might do the job. We had the local community bus parked in our yard which had the same problem which we often had to jump start for them I suggested a solar panel they got one with crocodile clips to connect to battery and it did the job. It was approx 12" x 6" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 13, 2017 Share Posted October 13, 2017 Nick, My personal preference is CTEK. After a bad experience with a 'cheap' multi-stage charger several years ago I purchased a CTEK 4 A which I have used exclusively since. Also at work we have dozens (yes, dozens) of the larger MXS-25 charger/power supply units and I have never known any problems with any of them. My recommendation to you would be this 24 Volt 4 Amp charger... http://www.ctek.com/products/professional/mxt-4-0 Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flicka Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Hi Nick I would recommend you have a look at the "Roadpro" website www.roadpro.co.uk/catalogue/02c-battery-chargers-230v The sell both 12v & 24v equipment to cover both light & heavy commercial vehicles & usually have lots of detailed product info, either linked to the individual product or as fact sheets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Wild card! Have you thought about contacting your local highways department transport manager? They tend to have vehicles, such a gritters, that must spend considerable amounts of time inactive, and will also be 24V with larger batteries. Many of the cheaper "battery minder" type trickle chargers are designed for the relatively small 12V batteries installed in cars, and would not be up to the job. But large transport depots with specialised vehicles that spent time inactive will presumably have encountered, and solved, the problem. Even, at a stretch, larger arable farmers, who may have machines such a harvesters that only get intermittent use (though I think many are on contract to the millers). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Nick, as Keith says there is nothing wrong with the CTEK, except the price. We think they are very, very expensive for what you get. Because your Lorries have a larger than usual permanent draw there shouldn't be an issue with even the cheapest charger being used. Even though it's 'trickle' will probably be 13.8v/27.6, so higher than the current thinking's long term 13.2v/26.4, the permanent 'high' draw plus natural self discharge should still give good results. You don't need the charger to be as powerful as 5a, 2a will do, so long as the batteries are not past it, this 24v/2a charger at £33 will work well : http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/battery-chargers-lead-acid-automotive/0549300/ The lower power will also reduce the risk of 'overcharge', but it also claims to have full 'Auto shutdown' which isn't explained, maybe suggesting it shuts off when the batteries are full? I wouldn't bother going to the Roadpro site for a charger, they won't compete with RS prices. £33 with a RS 3 year warranty is hard to beat. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harvey Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 I had a small CTEK charger. If there was a mains power failure it would resume its charging when power was restored. This is an excellent feature because if you do not know of the power failure you may think that your batteries are charging when they are not. I have similar ( half the price ) chargers from Lidl and they do not do this. You pays your money ........... Harvey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Harvey - 2017-10-14 12:51 PM I had a small CTEK charger. If there was a mains power failure it would resume its charging when power was restored. This is an excellent feature because if you do not know of the power failure you may think that your batteries are charging when they are not. I have similar ( half the price ) chargers from Lidl and they do not do this. You pays your money ........... Surely any battery charger will resume charging when the mains supply resumes and even if it starts charging at a higher rate than it was before the cut it should quickly sense the battery voltage and switch to the more appropraite charge rate - or am I missing something here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Tracker - 2017-10-14 12:57 PM Harvey - 2017-10-14 12:51 PM I had a small CTEK charger. If there was a mains power failure it would resume its charging when power was restored. This is an excellent feature because if you do not know of the power failure you may think that your batteries are charging when they are not. I have similar ( half the price ) chargers from Lidl and they do not do this. You pays your money ........... Surely any battery charger will resume charging when the mains supply resumes and even if it starts charging at a higher rate than it was before the cut it should quickly sense the battery voltage and switch to the more appropraite charge rate - or am I missing something here? No the Lidl ones don't start charging until you select what program you want ie car, motorcycle, and, err think one is for low temperature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Tracker, that is how 99% of the Worlds chargers behave, but some, like the Lidl one are not designed to be left on. These are certainly not for long term maintenance charging which is what Nick is asking for. I am not saying the CTEK isn't a good charger just as I wouldn't say a Bugatti isn't a good car, but I would rather have an Audi S6. It is a good charger, but we have seen inside them, and there are just as good units out there for much less money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-10-14 2:56 PM Tracker, that is how 99% of the Worlds chargers behave, but some, like the Lidl one are not designed to be left on. Perhaps I am getting old then as when I used to use a charger if it went off due to a power break it came on again when the power resumed? Admittedly it was a lot less sophisticated but if modern sophistication can't work out to turn the flippin' thing back on where it left off it seems to me to be a pretty basic design shortcoming and lack of sophistication? Progress eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Tracker - 2017-10-14 3:06 PM aandncaravan - 2017-10-14 2:56 PM Tracker, that is how 99% of the Worlds chargers behave, but some, like the Lidl one are not designed to be left on. Perhaps I am getting old then as when I used to use a charger if it went off due to a power break it came on again when the power resumed? Admittedly it was a lot less sophisticated but if modern sophistication can't work out to turn the flippin' thing back on where it left off it seems to me to be a pretty basic design shortcoming and lack of sophistication? Progress eh? They are sophisticated in that they have different charging programs, but not sophisticated enough to be able to choose the program themselves.. So semi-sophisticated? ;-) They're great for the money though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Charles - 2017-10-14 3:31 PM They are sophisticated in that they have different charging programs, but not sophisticated enough to be able to choose the program themselves.. So semi-sophisticated? ;-) If they can sense when the battery is disconnected or any change of battery voltage and they can sense when the mains is interupted to reset itself, then how hard can it be for it to restart where it left off when the mains restarts as long as the battery has remained connected throughout. If the battery is disconnected you would expect the thing to reset itself, so sorry but it still reeks of inadequate and not properly thought through design to me, especially irritating if your van, boat, truck or whatever battery is a long way from home! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Tracker - 2017-10-14 4:41 PM Charles - 2017-10-14 3:31 PM They are sophisticated in that they have different charging programs, but not sophisticated enough to be able to choose the program themselves.. So semi-sophisticated? ;-) If they can sense when the battery is disconnected or any change of battery voltage and they can sense when the mains is interupted to reset itself, then how hard can it be for it to restart where it left off when the mains restarts as long as the battery has remained connected throughout. If the battery is disconnected you would expect the thing to reset itself, so sorry but it still reeks of inadequate and not properly thought through design to me, especially irritating if your van, boat, truck or whatever battery is a long way from home! Yeah not very good for that, I suppose a bit of flash memory could store the last setting and restart the charger. I use mine on the engine battery while the van is in the garage over winter so no problem if the power goes off, I usually notice it after a few days and it won't hurt the battery.... Oh! Unless it counts as a cycle 8-) :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Charles - 2017-10-14 5:04 PM Unless it counts as a cycle When I were a lad a cycle were a thingy with two pedals and a chain that kept coming off! Things was much more simple then!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Tracker, sorry badly written, I meant how you describe is how 99% of Motorhome chargers work. If power is lost they just restart. The Lidl style charger is the exception, probably designed for short term car use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 aandncaravan - 2017-10-14 12:41 PM Nick, as Keith says there is nothing wrong with the CTEK, except the price. We think they are very, very expensive for what you get. Because your Lorries have a larger than usual permanent draw there shouldn't be an issue with even the cheapest charger being used. Even though it's 'trickle' will probably be 13.8v/27.6, so higher than the current thinking's long term 13.2v/26.4, the permanent 'high' draw plus natural self discharge should still give good results. You don't need the charger to be as powerful as 5a, 2a will do, so long as the batteries are not past it, this 24v/2a charger at £33 will work well : http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/battery-chargers-lead-acid-automotive/0549300/ The lower power will also reduce the risk of 'overcharge', but it also claims to have full 'Auto shutdown' which isn't explained, maybe suggesting it shuts off when the batteries are full? I wouldn't bother going to the Roadpro site for a charger, they won't compete with RS prices. £33 with a RS 3 year warranty is hard to beat. I agree with Allan, but perhaps there are other matters to consider. How are the battery chargers to be powered? As Euroserv is a business, should not any power supply connections be at a nominal 110V, or does some exemption apply? As the battery chargers are portable in their basic form, would they come under PAT testing regulations? Perhaps if the chargers were bolted into the vehicles, and supplied via a connection unit, the need for the PAT on both the charger and plug in mains connection could be avoided. If the above criterea apply, the selected charger should be suitable for operation on 110V (most of those offered by RS are), and should be capable of accepting mounting feet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charles Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Alanb - 2017-10-14 8:43 PM aandncaravan - 2017-10-14 12:41 PM Nick, as Keith says there is nothing wrong with the CTEK, except the price. We think they are very, very expensive for what you get. Because your Lorries have a larger than usual permanent draw there shouldn't be an issue with even the cheapest charger being used. Even though it's 'trickle' will probably be 13.8v/27.6, so higher than the current thinking's long term 13.2v/26.4, the permanent 'high' draw plus natural self discharge should still give good results. You don't need the charger to be as powerful as 5a, 2a will do, so long as the batteries are not past it, this 24v/2a charger at £33 will work well : http://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/battery-chargers-lead-acid-automotive/0549300/ The lower power will also reduce the risk of 'overcharge', but it also claims to have full 'Auto shutdown' which isn't explained, maybe suggesting it shuts off when the batteries are full? I wouldn't bother going to the Roadpro site for a charger, they won't compete with RS prices. £33 with a RS 3 year warranty is hard to beat. I agree with Allan, but perhaps there are other matters to consider. How are the battery chargers to be powered? As Euroserv is a business, should not any power supply connections be at a nominal 110V, or does some exemption apply? As the battery chargers are portable in their basic form, would they come under PAT testing regulations? Perhaps if the chargers were bolted into the vehicles, and supplied via a connection unit, the need for the PAT on both the charger and plug in mains connection could be avoided. If the above criterea apply, the selected charger should be suitable for operation on 110V (most of those offered by RS are), and should be capable of accepting mounting feet. Building sites are run on 110v. I haven't heard of any businesses using it. Unless they're American :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WA Michael Posted October 20, 2017 Share Posted October 20, 2017 Hi sorry for the slow response. I use a Jaylec intelligent charger. It was dirt cheap on eBay, I say it but I now have three, I bought them a couple of years ago and have had no bother whatever. One is on a quad for the farm, months of idleness then away. One on the vehicle battery for the 'van. And another on my ancient 2CV. These units actually work as well as the expensive ones that friends use. Just look and then skid around to see if there are any, the same, cheaper. I'm sure that a certain agro expert will disagree with me but mine have worked beautifully for a good few years. Just on the subject of ebay quality and pricing. My little infra red remote thermometer cost me $11-81 Au, our local garage had bought one"on special" at a motor factors for $164. Mine was delivered to the door postage incl. the only problem might be 12 volt, but look on their site. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
euroserv Posted October 20, 2017 Author Share Posted October 20, 2017 Thank you so much for all of the advice and contributions. I have ordered a 2A unit from RS components and will let you know how we get on with it. N Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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