Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Hi all, just ordered our first MH, what would be your 5 top tips for a newbie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 1) use it2) use it3) use it4) use it5) use it! All other tips will become clear when you follow 1-5! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 1. Check Payload. 2. Check Payload. 3. Check Payload. 4. Check Payload. 5. Check Payload. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ron. Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 I'll second Keith, including individual axles. (6) Take with a pinch of salt anything dealers tell you. Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brock Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Aristotle said, “We do many things for the sake of something else, for example we work to eat. Unless there is something done for its own sake, there is no point doing anything.” Number 6, as laimeduck has bagged 1-5, is enjoy without feeling guilty. Use it - including for the occasional day out from home - and all year round. Using the motorhome can bring problems. Solutions follow from practice, talking to other motorhomers, and keeping up to date with developments. OAL is pretty good for that as is MMM if you can live with the adverts [i can]. Practical Motorhome is another magazine to consider. Number 7 is build your knowledge base. Be positive, occasionally sceptical of advice given - but never cynical! Number 8, which might be the most important, is comply with legislation. Probably the most common problem area currently is ensuring you remain within your overall vehicle weight and the individual axle weights. Read your insurance policy and ensure you comply with the terms & conditions. There is no point in having insurance if you don't comply. Go abroad in it at least once a year but appreciate Britain has a charm of itself and is not as motorhome unfriendly as some people think. Number 10 is buy a drink for every owner of a Hymer BClass 504 you meet. One of them might be me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
globebuster Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Never buy a new van as your first van Never buy a new van as your second van Contemplate buying a new van as your third van Check the payload on every prospective purchase Always have a decent sized external locker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 RTFM And then do it four more times! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Thanks for the advice (except the "do not buy a new van" tooooo late lol) using it is a given, as often as work permits. Payload: sussed an uplated. Drinks all round to posh Hymer owners. RTFM, I do love a manual :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Fair warning ... you've been told ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Erm, not sure what you mean?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyg3nwl Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Drive on left in uk drive on right on continent dont drink and drive leave bigger space in front when in traffic stop worrying, enjoy it. Tonyg3nwl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 I absolutely will enjoy it, can't wait until March!!. I'm certainly not worrying ?? (^) :-S :-D :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 11:10 AM Payload: sussed an uplated. Up-plated to what? Sometimes the individual permissible axle loads stay the same. It's the permissible rear axle load you need to more concerned about as that is where most of the weight will be, especially if you have a front lounging area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Try not get too carried away in buying expensive "must have" accessories, until such time as you see that YOU will have a real world use for them.. (I've thinking of things like drive-away awnings and in some cases, if your van hasn't got one already, wind out canopies). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Robbo - 2017-10-28 1:32 PM Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 11:10 AM Payload: sussed an uplated. Up-plated to what? Sometimes the individual permissible axle loads stay the same. It's the permissible rear axle load you need to more concerned about as that is where most of the weight will be, especially if you have a front lounging area. Robbo, thanks for that, this may be my first lesson, anybody have any idea what the permissible rear axle load is on a Rapido 696f 150 bhp 2018 model. Btw it's up-plated to 3.65t Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will86 Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Skydog You asked what did I mean. Have you driven any form of M/H before and lived in a minimal space for a lengthy time. How long did you research them. I think its fair to say that all M'H's have faults or develop them at some time, how practical are you, it can be expensive using others services. From your first posting it does appear that you just went shopping and made a purchase because it seemed a good idea. Many owners buy 2 or 3 before they are satisfied. We hired twice and took 2 years researching plus having had many previous years of mixing with M/H people. Everyone is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robbo Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Robbo, thanks for that, this may be my first lesson, anybody have any idea what the permissible rear axle load is on a Rapido 696f 150 bhp 2018 model. Btw it's up-plated to 3.65t As far as I know, the light 3500/3650 chassis will have a 1850Kg front axle load and 2000Kg rear axle load. The 3650 chassis upgrade just lets you distribute the weights. So, if you had 2000Kg on the rear axle, the front axle could be up to 1650KG. Rapido allow an option to specify the 4400Kg heavy chassis where my guestimated loads would be, 2100Kg front axle and 2500Kg rear axle. For comparison, my 4250Kg ALCO chassis is 2100Kg front and 2400Kg rear. You have already upgraded to a 3650Kg chassis, so you must have a C1 driving licence. In which case, it would be wise to consider the heavy chassis. If I were in your shoes, I'd go for the heavy, especially if you were carrying more than 2 adults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Will86 - 2017-10-28 3:39 PM Skydog You asked what did I mean. Have you driven any form of M/H before and lived in a minimal space for a lengthy time. How long did you research them. I think its fair to say that all M'H's have faults or develop them at some time, how practical are you, it can be expensive using others services. From your first posting it does appear that you just went shopping and made a purchase because it seemed a good idea. Many owners buy 2 or 3 before they are satisfied. We hired twice and took 2 years researching plus having had many previous years of mixing with M/H people. Everyone is different. Hi Will It certainly wasn't an impulse purchase. We spent 6 solid months researching, visiting numerous dealers over many weeks and hundreds of hours on the web. We've seen just about every model/manufacturer with a distinct wish list, narrowing down the options to that list. I'm an engineer by profession (degree in process engineering) so I'm not phased by technical issues or fault finding by logical progression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 2:19 PM Robbo - 2017-10-28 1:32 PM Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 11:10 AM Payload: sussed an uplated. Up-plated to what? Sometimes the individual permissible axle loads stay the same. It's the permissible rear axle load you need to more concerned about as that is where most of the weight will be, especially if you have a front lounging area. Robbo, thanks for that, this may be my first lesson, anybody have any idea what the permissible rear axle load is on a Rapido 696f 150 bhp 2018 model. Btw it's up-plated to 3.65t So, Fiat base, light chassis, basic MIRO 3060kg, max rear axle load 2,000kg. Up plating to 3650kg MAM will not alter the rear axle max. Calculated payload 590kg, less any options/extras added at works or by dealer (unknown). Payload probably adequate for two, but marginal for any more. Van 7,490 long, 4,034 wheelbase, so approx. 2,355 rear overhang (58%), garage layout beneath island bed. I think, if it were me, and if you can still do this, I'd try to get it changed PDQ to the heavy chassis, which will give you 2,400kg rear axle load and an MAM of 4,400kg. It will also give you better brakes and 16" wheels. It will ride a little higher, which should help to negate the grounding risk from that longish rear overhang. It will cost a bit more, but the extra should be fairly modest as you've already specified the 150PS engine. It will be a better van. As you're already going for 3,650kg MAM, I'm assuming you have the necessary driving licence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-10-28 4:07 PM Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 2:19 PM Robbo - 2017-10-28 1:32 PM Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 11:10 AM Payload: sussed an uplated. Up-plated to what? Sometimes the individual permissible axle loads stay the same. It's the permissible rear axle load you need to more concerned about as that is where most of the weight will be, especially if you have a front lounging area. Robbo, thanks for that, this may be my first lesson, anybody have any idea what the permissible rear axle load is on a Rapido 696f 150 bhp 2018 model. Btw it's up-plated to 3.65t So, Fiat base, light chassis, basic MIRO 3060kg, max rear axle load 2,000kg. Up plating to 3650kg MAM will not alter the rear axle max. Calculated payload 590kg, less any options/extras added at works or by dealer (unknown). Payload probably adequate for two, but marginal for any more. Van 7,490 long, 4,034 wheelbase, so approx. 2,355 rear overhang (58%), garage layout beneath island bed. I think, if it were me, and if you can still do this, I'd try to get it changed PDQ to the heavy chassis, which will give you 2,400kg rear axle load and an MAM of 4,400kg. It will also give you better brakes and 16" wheels. It will ride a little higher, which should help to negate the grounding risk from that longish rear overhang. It will cost a bit more, but the extra should be fairly modest as you've already specified the 150PS engine. It will be a better van. As you're already going for 3,650kg MAM, I'm assuming you have the necessary driving licence. Hi Brian There are two of us and an 11 year old. Dealer just quoted £3070 for heavy chassis, so some thinking to be done! Our combined weight is around 200kg so no real worries there! It will come with the 16" wheels so again no worry there. I thought the MIRO includes full fuel tank and driver? The added weight from the options I have ordered is 94kg so by my reckoning that should give me a payload allowance after taking account of the two passengers of 396kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 4:34 PM.......................... Hi Brian There are two of us and an 11 year old. Dealer just quoted £3070 for heavy chassis, so some thinking to be done! Our combined weight is around 200kg so no real worries there! It will come with the 16" wheels so again no worry there. I thought the MIRO includes full fuel tank and driver? The added weight from the options I have ordered is 94kg so by my reckoning that should give me a payload allowance after taking account of the two passengers of 396kg. That sounds a lot to me. Are you sure that is the cost of uprating to the heavy chassis? Is he taking into account that you have already ordered the 150PS engine? The basic Ducato van on a heavy chassis is only in the region of £500 - £600 extra. That figure looks to include the upgrade to the 150PS engine as well. I'm not sure how Rapido calculate their MIRO, which would be worth checking very carefully. Many now quote with limited fresh water on board, and I'd guess Rapido provide a gas locker for two 13kg cylinders, but only include one in the MIRO. Spare wheel included/provided? Don't forget that 11 year olds can turn into prop forwards in four years time! :-D But also, don't under-estimate the amount of stuff you'll be likely to take, especially while he is going with you. Bikes? Where will they be carried? That aside, it is not the weight alone that counts, it is its distribution, and whether the van layout allows you to distribute it forward. 3,650kg is merely the sum of the rear axle maximum and the front axle maximum. In practise, it is virtually impossible to have both axles simultaneously at their maximum load, meaning that a presently unknown part of that 3,650kg MAM is unusable. That is the reason van chassis are invariably plated at less than the sum of the two axles. My guess is that you will quite quickly reach the max rear axle limit. Remember that loads distribute in vans a bit like on a see-saw, with the rear axle acting as the fulcrum. Anything ahead of the rear axle is distributed between the axles in proportion to its distance from each. But anything carried behind the rear axle imposes more than its self-weight on that axle while deducting the balance from front axle load. Most van layouts dictate that load accumulates around the rear axle, with a quite high proportion going behind the axle. That is why they so often end up with rear axle overload. That is why I think you'll need that heavy chassis with its 2,400kg rear axle. If I'm right about the dealer's pricing error for the heavy chassis, it should be cheaper to pay for that now, than to try to get the rear axle uprated beyond 2,000kg later, which would be far more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 Brian Kirby - 2017-10-28 5:08 PM Skydog1955 - 2017-10-28 4:34 PM.......................... Hi Brian There are two of us and an 11 year old. Dealer just quoted £3070 for heavy chassis, so some thinking to be done! Our combined weight is around 200kg so no real worries there! It will come with the 16" wheels so again no worry there. I thought the MIRO includes full fuel tank and driver? The added weight from the options I have ordered is 94kg so by my reckoning that should give me a payload allowance after taking account of the two passengers of 396kg. That sounds a lot to me. Are you sure that is the cost of uprating to the heavy chassis? Is he taking into account that you have already ordered the 150PS engine? The basic Ducato van on a heavy chassis is only in the region of £500 - £600 extra. That figure looks to include the upgrade to the 150PS engine as well. Thanks Brian I think your spot on with the assumption the dealer is somewhat confused (he sounds Italian and spent a couple of minutes Mmming and rrring with lots of rustling paper) I'll speak to the guy I placed the order with on Monday. I take your point on the axle loading and tbh even with a couple of bikes in the garage at say 50kg each + cadac + sunloungers + bits and bobs I shouldn't necessarily exceed 3650 but you've got me thinking and for the sake of £1500 I would sooner have peace of mind now before van arrives I'm not sure how Rapido calculate their MIRO, which would be worth checking very carefully. Many now quote with limited fresh water on board, and I'd guess Rapido provide a gas locker for two 13kg cylinders, but only include one in the MIRO. Spare wheel included/provided? Don't forget that 11 year olds can turn into prop forwards in four years time! :-D But also, don't under-estimate the amount of stuff you'll be likely to take, especially while he is going with you. Bikes? Where will they be carried? That aside, it is not the weight alone that counts, it is its distribution, and whether the van layout allows you to distribute it forward. 3,650kg is merely the sum of the rear axle maximum and the front axle maximum. In practise, it is virtually impossible to have both axles simultaneously at their maximum load, meaning that a presently unknown part of that 3,650kg MAM is unusable. That is the reason van chassis are invariably plated at less than the sum of the two axles. My guess is that you will quite quickly reach the max rear axle limit. Remember that loads distribute in vans a bit like on a see-saw, with the rear axle acting as the fulcrum. Anything ahead of the rear axle is distributed between the axles in proportion to its distance from each. But anything carried behind the rear axle imposes more than its self-weight on that axle while deducting the balance from front axle load. Most van layouts dictate that load accumulates around the rear axle, with a quite high proportion going behind the axle. That is why they so often end up with rear axle overload. That is why I think you'll need that heavy chassis with its 2,400kg rear axle. If I'm right about the dealer's pricing error for the heavy chassis, it should be cheaper to pay for that now, than to try to get the rear axle uprated beyond 2,000kg later, which would be far more complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Slightly irritating to have two threads which have gone to same subject, i'll stick to this one for now. I'l stick my neck out and say you will be lucky to get a usable 200kg of that 396kg. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 On The 365.L chassis made by fiat you can have also 3850. Same as a alko 38L bolted to fiat36.5 L. Or the fiat heavy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skydog1955 Posted October 28, 2017 Author Share Posted October 28, 2017 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2017-10-28 6:10 PM On The 365.L chassis made by fiat you can have also 3850. Same as a alko 38L bolted to fiat36.5 L. Or the fiat heavy. Hi Monique How is that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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