A tax on the sick

[Guest pelmetman]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-07 9:44 AM

StuartO - 2017-12-07 8:53 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-07 1:44 PM People who are being treated shouldn't have to pay a penny in my view

 

That's a point of view and some people doubtless think  that because they pay road tax they should never have to pay for parking.

 

But it doesn't provide grounds for appealing a PCN when a driver, knowing the score, chose to over-run the meter.  No one prevented her from popping out to feed the meter when she realised she was going to take longer than anticipated, she chose not to. She wasn't prevented from doing so because she was being treated continuously let alone because she was attached to a life support system.  She took a calculated risk and it didn't work out - stop moaning!

She is 75 years old has rheumatoid arthritis and a gammy foot -I'll be moaning to the cows come home. >:-)

How very chattering classes :D .........A crusade against NHS car parking charges :-| .......Whilst defending a system that rewards criminals *-) .........

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-07 10:51 AM

 

pepe63 - 2017-12-07 10:18 AM

 

Violet1956 - 2017-12-07 9:52 AM

 

antony1969 - 2017-12-07 9:47 AM

 

Given she's got arthritis , 75 and a gammy foot surely a taxi may have been more suitable and less dangerous to her and others

 

Drives an automatic - no doctor has told her she is unfit to drive....

 

Is that supposed to make her "case" stronger?.... :-S

 

;-)

No, just a response to Antony's suggestion that a taxi was more suitable implying that there was some danger to be avoided by her driving herself to the hospital.

Regards that point Veronica, when i bust my leg last year i was frustrated as hell as i couldn't drive because i use my van which is manual. However even if i'd had an automatic, though technically i could have driven, physically i couldn't as i struggled to even get in and out of a damn car let alone drive one!

 

The hospital had actually told me not to drive anyway. When i was eventually given the ok to drive, i went out in my van for a few short trips and it was quite painful because it was my left leg i'd bust.....and my clutch is fairly heavy.

 

 

Tracker - 2017-12-07 11:09 AM

 

We too have some experience of hospitals and their car park charges and living some 15 miles from Worcester, public transport is not viable and a taxi would be very costly.

There is a hospital car service which is free and they do their best but as they cannot be in two places at once it often, so I am told.....

Richard......maybe you have a different service there with your NHS but in my area that service most certainly isn't free. It is cheaper than taxi rates however and provided by private citizens who use their own cars and is done on a voluntary basis. My hospital told me about it and told me i could arrange it through my GP who then contact the car owner/volunteer. They have set charges to each hospital but as mentioned, it's less than taxi rates.

 

The idea came about simply to ease the badly over stretched and undermanned Ambulance service and where people are not likely to need professional medical care between home and hospital. It's a good idea, but a sad reflection of the state to which Government is prepared to let the NHS slide ever further to privatisation.

 

 

pepe63 - 2017-12-07 11:37 AM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-12-06 10:50 PM

PJay - 2017-12-06 10:19 PM

i would cancel the "Winter fuel payment" How many spend it on fuel???

I do, and the payment covers just 33 days absolute max.

 

 

Blimey BG...200 quid (ish?) and just 33 days? Do they pay this Winter fuel allowance in old £1 notes, for folk to burn?... (lol)

Our gas(cooking & heating) and electric(lighting) combined is only £53 a month... :-S

Pepe......that works out at £6 a day inc gas and elec. And since having a smart meter installed i can see at a glance how much i'm spending.......and yes it's been an eye opener.

 

Not every day will be really cold but last week for example, there were a few days my heating was on all day. Depending on outdoor temp i usually switch off around an hour or so before going to bed. I like an indoor temp of 20 -23c (it's currently showing 20.3c) and i don't like wearing layers of clothing or socks in the house.

 

I could reduce costs by dressing up in winter woolies, overcoats and God knows what else, but i didn't work my bloody arse off for 40 years to live like that.

 

The fuel allowance is paid direct into my Bank and to be honest, i don't even notice it. £53 a month would be an impossible dream for me.....that's almost what i'm paying for internet and phone!

[Bulletguy]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-07 1:04 PM

 

Found this article, sorry it's a bit old-from 2015 but it gives some insight as to how much revenue was being raised by some hospitals from parking charges and who was profiting from it.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35157425

It's the thin end of the wedge toward blanket privatisation and profiteering from the sick. Tories won't have it written into their manifesto...they daren't.....but it's certainly in their heads. I saw PFi was also mentioned in that report too. Enough said!

 

Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, said: "The money is never reinvested in frontline services. Hospital car parks are often managed by private contractors who take a huge percentage of the profits."

 

Laura Keely, from charity Macmillan Cancer Support, told the BBC: "You shouldn't necessarily penalise cancer patients and other people with long-term conditions who are having to attend hospital to receive life saving treatment, that just isn't fair.

[Tracker]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-07 4:45 PM

 

It's the thin end of the wedge toward blanket privatisation and profiteering from the sick. Tories won't have it written into their manifesto...they daren't.....but it's certainly in their heads. I saw PFi was also mentioned in that report too. Enough said!

 

 

Oh dear, your political bias is showing yet again, Labour had plenty of years in power to change things but chose not to.

 

 

[Bulletguy]

Tracker - 2017-12-07 4:59 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-12-07 4:45 PM

 

It's the thin end of the wedge toward blanket privatisation and profiteering from the sick. Tories won't have it written into their manifesto...they daren't.....but it's certainly in their heads. I saw PFi was also mentioned in that report too. Enough said!

 

 

Oh dear, your political bias is showing yet again, Labour had plenty of years in power to change things but chose not to.

So what is your Tory/DUP alliance party doing Richard? :-S

 

Brexit promised £350m a week (over £18 billion pa) to the NHS which we know was a lie.....but you are still going to be held to account on that. Head of NHS Simon Stevens begs Hammond pre-budget for a £4 billion emergency injection....to which Hammond dismissively shoos them off with a paltry £2bn.

 

Pretty much shows the direction Government are going doesn't it? And that's not one of 'change' other than short changing.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-07 5:24 PM

 

Brexit promised £350m a week (over £18 billion pa) to the NHS which we know was a lie.

 

As you Remoaners like to say ;-) ........We haven't left yet :D .........

 

 

[Tracker]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-07 5:24 PM

 

So what is your Tory/DUP alliance party doing Richard? :-S

 

 

I didn't claim they are doing anything, I merely pointed out that it is also a Labour issue not just the Tories as you so blatantly and incorrectly claimed and it goes back to a time when the Labour government had plenty of opportunity to change things, that is before they ran out of our money.

[RogerC]

party introduced pfi

Bulletguy - 2017-12-07 4:45 PM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-07 1:04 PMFound this article, sorry it's a bit old-from 2015 but it gives some insight as to how much revenue was being raised by some hospitals from parking charges and who was profiting from it. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-35157425

It's the thin end of the wedge toward blanket privatisation and profiteering from the sick. Tories won't have it written into their manifesto...they daren't.....but it's certainly in their heads. I saw PFi was also mentioned in that report too. Enough said!Katherine Murphy, chief executive of the Patients Association, said: "The money is never reinvested in frontline services. Hospital car parks are often managed by private contractors who take a huge percentage of the profits."Laura Keely, from charity Macmillan Cancer Support, told the BBC: "You shouldn't necessarily penalise cancer patients and other people with long-term conditions who are having to attend hospital to receive life saving treatment, that just isn't fair.

Over £300 billion in payments due to PFi schemes.  Introduced small time by John Major.  EXPANDED BIG TIME by B'liar (LABOUR) and myopic Brown (LABOUR) so pray tell which party is really responsible for the mess we see the NHS and other organisations in today?   Could it be LABOUR I wonder????

[Bulletguy]

Tracker - 2017-12-07 5:35 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2017-12-07 5:24 PM

 

So what is your Tory/DUP alliance party doing Richard? :-S

 

 

I didn't claim they are doing anything, I merely pointed out that it is also a Labour issue not just the Tories as you so blatantly and incorrectly claimed and it goes back to a time when the Labour government had plenty of opportunity to change things, that is before they ran out of our money.

No i know you didn't, you used the blame shifting card instead but your Government is in power now, not Labour which was why i asked the question. The problem is the Tories haven't really been doing very much other than take a wrecking ball to it. As far as i'm aware the Tory Government have held power the past seven years, albeit scraping in with a coalition initially and now being propped up by the DUP May had to bribe with £1 billion of taxpayers money.

 

There's not been much in the way of progress in that time has there? As mentioned previously, their intention isn't looking particularly favourable either by tossing a few coins into the NHS they appear more keen to completely dismantle to put it in the hands of private investors, something they've been itching to do for years as there's shed loads of money to be made.

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2017-12-07 8:34 PM

 

There's not been much in the way of progress in that time has there? As mentioned previously, their intention isn't looking particularly favourable either by tossing a few coins into the NHS they appear more keen to completely dismantle to put it in the hands of private investors, something they've been itching to do for years as there's shed loads of money to be made.

 

Labour would know all about flogging the family silver *-) .......

 

Now they want to buy it back :-| .........

 

I wonder who will foot that bill? >:-) .........

 

 

 

 

[Tracker]

Can we have a new forum section please for party political broadcasts?

[Violet1956]

Tracker - 2017-12-07 10:28 PM

 

Can we have a new forum section please for party political broadcasts?

 

Good idea.

 

Now, who should we nominate to continue the noble tradition begun by Screaming Lord Sutch on said forum section? And who fancies themselves as the next Churchill, Lloyd George, Bevan, Atlee, Enoch Powell etc etc.? I quite fancy myself as Shirley Williams- but you knew that already. Not quite smart enough I admit but I do try. I think we're missing a Rees-Mogg as I don't quite see him gadding about in a motorhome.

 

;-)

 

Veronica

[derek pringle]

hear hear this is turning in to a political forum.

derek

[StuartO]

Violet1956 - 2017-12-08 3:25 AM

StuartO - 2017-12-07 11:17 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-08 2:05 AM

StuartO - 2017-12-07 10:26 AM

Violet1956 - 2017-12-08 12:52 AM..... It was me who swiped the ticket off her to make representations. She was going to pay it, so comments about her 'cheating' are misplaced, she didn't moan about it at all these are my views not hers.

 

So you're the person who's trying to cheat the charges for her then, inflicting your misplaced, self-righteous ideas on a nice old lady who has the good sense to pay up when she's been caught over-staying?  Are you going to drag her along to the appeal hearing so you can have your rant about her rights, she'll really enjoy doing that won't she? ....

"My misplaced self-righteous ideas" -Stuart? I agree there are arguments for and against hospital parking charges but I do wish you would refrain from attacking me personally in such a derogatory fashion. There are possibly more people who read these posts who would contribute to the discussion but for the likelihood that they would come under some form of personal attack for expressing them...

 

I was challenging your ideas, including your decison to take over and challenge the system for her and your plan to drag the nice old lady along to the appeal hearing, whether she likes it or not.  Hard talk perhaps but hardly a personal insult.

I have no plan to drag her to an appeal hearing nor can an "idea" be termed self-righteous - you meant I was being self righteous and that is plain for all to see. ;-)

 

You are quite right that the "self righteous" was a criticism of your excessive zeal, "swiping" the PCN off the nice old lady so you could start your crusade, whether she liked it or not, so I suppose it was a comment on what seemed like intrusive behaviour - but it was a supplement to the criticism of your ideas - your failure distinguish between the principle of charging for hospital parking (of which you  disapprove strongly and that's OK of course, except why drag the old lady into it) and the culpable practice of over-staying on a meter when it could have been avoided.

 

If you are not going to persuade the nice old lady to go to the appeal hearing, how do you propose to effect the appeal you want to make on her behalf against the PCN?  Don't they necessarily involve going to a formal hearing in front of an adjudicator?  Or will it be sufficient for you to let of steam by writing a letter to the local authority on her behalf, whether she really wants you to or not? 

 

And do you really think that a letter objecting to charges for hospital parking in principle will cut any ice when the PCN was issued for overstaying a meter on the public highway outside?

 

[derek pringle]

hi,

If hospitals are determined to charge for parking then it should be at a nominal rate and paid on EXIT so there would be no overrun on time. Parking fee in fact should be say £1 per visit, so it costs a £1 whatever time you are there.

cheers

derek

[StuartO]

derek pringle - 2017-12-09 12:31 AMhi, If hospitals are determined to charge for parking then it should be at a nominal rate and paid on EXIT so there would be no overrun on time. Parking fee in fact should be say £1 per visit, so it costs a £1 whatever time you are there.cheersderek

We have a so-called National Health Service but there is no national policy for whether and how individual hospitals charge for parking.  Hosital budgets are under pressure so the hositals resort to grabbing money where they can, including for parking.  The result is that some hospitals get it wrong and don't allow for people being delayed very well, which they obviously should.

 

Some hospitals are in tightly urban locations and there is simply not enough room for dedicated parking, so that patients and visitors park outside on the roads, with all sorts of knock on effects for other people.  So some local authorities put meters on the roads etc etc It's a mess. 

 

But does any of that excuse over-staying on a meter on the road outside and being outraged about a PCN and blaming hospital parking charges?  I don't think so.

 

[malc d]

derek pringle - 2017-12-08 9:31 AM

 

hi,

If hospitals are determined to charge for parking then it should be at a nominal rate and paid on EXIT so there would be no overrun on time. Parking fee in fact should be say £1 per visit, so it costs a £1 whatever time you are there.

cheers

derek

 

 

Trouble with that idea is that all the local anti-social shoppers would use the hospital car park instead of a more expensive one down the road.

[John52]

malc d - 2017-12-08 9:57 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-12-08 9:31 AM

 

hi,

If hospitals are determined to charge for parking then it should be at a nominal rate and paid on EXIT so there would be no overrun on time. Parking fee in fact should be say £1 per visit, so it costs a £1 whatever time you are there.

cheers

derek

 

 

Trouble with that idea is that all the local anti-social shoppers would use the hospital car park instead of a more expensive one down the road.

 

Would make a change from hospital visitors clogging up supermarket car parks :-S

[John52]

Tracker - 2017-12-07 10:28 PM

 

Can we have a new forum section please for party political broadcasts?

 

Unfortunately hospital car park charges are inseparable from politics.

In this case Taxing the English and sending the money to Northern Ireland / Scotland / Wales etc so they can all have free prescriptions, free hospital car parking etc as long as they vote Tory - or at least rule from Westminster.

[derek pringle]

StuartO - 2017-12-08 9:42 AM

derek pringle - 2017-12-09 12:31 AMhi, If hospitals are determined to charge for parking then it should be at a nominal rate and paid on EXIT so there would be no overrun on time. Parking fee in fact should be say £1 per visit, so it costs a £1 whatever time you are there.cheersderek

We have a so-called National Health Service but there is no national policy for whether and how individual hospitals charge for parking.  Hosital budgets are under pressure so the hositals resort to grabbing money where they can, including for parking.  The result is that some hospitals get it wrong and don't allow for people being delayed very well, which they obviously should.

 

Some hospitals are in tightly urban locations and there is simply not enough room for dedicated parking, so that patients and visitors park outside on the roads, with all sorts of knock on effects for other people.  So some local authorities put meters on the roads etc etc It's a mess. 

 

But does any of that excuse over-staying on a meter on the road outside and being outraged about a PCN and blaming hospital parking charges?  I don't think so.

Hi, I understand some of your point button the case of hospitals I do think they are and should be a separate case. For example the local main hospital for me is the size of a village and once you are in a medical queue or treatment room you can,t just say stop I have to feed the meter,in fact you would have to leave 1/4 hr or more to get to the meter. If I am in town shopping I can determine how long I will be ,so not as sympathetic there, yet in hospital I have no say so would have to overfeed the meters on arrival and as you know that can be very expensive. cheersderek

[Tracker]

John52 - 2017-12-08 10:33 AM

 

Tracker - 2017-12-07 10:28 PM

 

Can we have a new forum section please for party political broadcasts?

 

Unfortunately hospital car park charges are inseparable from politics.

In this case Taxing the English and sending the money to Northern Ireland / Scotland / Wales etc so they can all have free prescriptions, free hospital car parking etc as long as they vote Tory - or at least rule from Westminster.

 

Sorry John, but that is a load of utter tosh because on that basis you could claim that virtually everything that happens in life from the price of cheese to the cost of all fuel to prescription costs to council tax to government spending are all poitically swayed, and that we already know.

 

What I object to is the continual whingeing and bullsh#t tendered by any and all politically motivated people, from either 'side', but in particular the current batch of Labour supporters who turn every thread into a party political broadcast.

 

It may bring you, and a few others, some comfort to keep spouting about how awful the Tories are and how wonderful JC is - and that he too can walk on water - but here is a bit of news that may astound you - it bores the pants off of most of us and spoils the forum for many.

 

We are all where we are in life and we have to make the best of it and make it work for us in an imperfect world, so some practical help from your vast experiences of life would be of more benefit that all the moaning and political clap trap.

 

And here's a bit more news that may amaze you - no matter who is in power there will always be issues we don't like - that's life - get used to it!

 

And NO, I don't like the way the current government is running things either, but I can't change that so I adapt and learn from life's experiences to make the most of it - and in spite of all the problems and doom and gloom merchants, life is pretty good from our perspective, and I suspect it is pretty good from yours too?

 

 

[malc d]

John52 - 2017-12-08 10:25 AM

 

malc d - 2017-12-08 9:57 AM

 

derek pringle - 2017-12-08 9:31 AM

 

hi,

If hospitals are determined to charge for parking then it should be at a nominal rate and paid on EXIT so there would be no overrun on time. Parking fee in fact should be say £1 per visit, so it costs a £1 whatever time you are there.

cheers

derek

 

 

Trouble with that idea is that all the local anti-social shoppers would use the hospital car park instead of a more expensive one down the road.

 

Would make a change from hospital visitors clogging up supermarket car parks :-S

 

 

I think that is a bit harsh.

 

I'm sure that most people visiting hospitals would rather not be there.

 

:-|

[Tracker]

In this area every hospital appointment is confirmed by a letter, so adding a simple tear off dated code to the bottom of the letter for the day of the visit would cost nothing to print and issue and ensure that only patients and their vehicle would benefit from any concessionary parking rates. It does not solve all the issues but it would be a start to prevent abuse.

[John52]

Tracker - 2017-12-08 11:14 AM

how wonderful JC is - and that he too can walk on water

Nah, he just looks that way compared to some of the others.

[John52]

Tracker - 2017-12-08 11:14 AM

life is pretty good from our perspective, and I suspect it is pretty good from yours too?

 

 

Yeah, I'm doing alright, but am still concerned about those who aren't.

Which some people can't understand because they seem totally selfish.

Where I have gained from the unfair systyem, they call me a hypocrite.

Where I haven't they call me bitter.

Perhaps thats the only feelings they can understand :-(

They can't seem to understand anyone being concerned about people other than themselves