Caravan and Motorhome Club arrogance?

[paulmold]

According to the C&CC general terms and conditions section 4.1 if the club cancels your booking, your deposit will be transferred to another booking or refunded. Go back and challenge them.

[yeti]

paulmold - 2017-12-25 9:25 AM

 

According to the C&CC general terms and conditions section 4.1 if the club cancels your booking, your deposit will be transferred to another booking or refunded. Go back and challenge them.

They argued that it was ME that cancelled the booking I don't know how they figured that out. Anyhow why bother, there are alternatives,some considerably better?

[bodach]

I would never be a site manager or warden if you prefer. I do have some experience of dealing with the public in retail which has similarities. We came to the conclusion that 85% of customers were no problem, 10 % were strange but could be coped with, 2.5% were totally obnoxious and the remainder should never have been born.

[Tony Jones]

The conversation on the first page made me think of this

Merry Christmas everyone!

[Brock]

Hello bodach. I have a similar experiences although the percentages may be slightly different. One of the organisations I worked for used to tell the '5%' to go and do their business elsewhere whilst another issued 'desist letters' which basically said don't bother contacting us as we are no longer going to answer you. One used a computer programme to continually measure the financial benefit in retaining the customer; this meant we worked harder to resolve issues with the profitable customers [the 80%+].

 

I was taught that if a business is not careful, then far too much time and money can be consumed by dealing with the cynical and troublesome customers rather than satisfying the needs of the vast majority.

 

I'm not suggesting Wills Wagon is a troublesome customer. Whilst the CMC letter was a computerised response in accordance with agreed procedures and thus could have been accepted without comment, I don't think it's beyond the wit of someone at CMC HO to press a button that suspends such letters when the country is told not to travel, because of adverse weather, unless the trip is important.

[michaelmorris]

Brock - 2017-12-25 7:21 PM

 

Hello bodach. I have a similar experiences although the percentages may be slightly different. One of the organisations I worked for used to tell the '5%' to go and do their business elsewhere whilst another issued 'desist letters' which basically said don't bother contacting us as we are no longer going to answer you. One used a computer programme to continually measure the financial benefit in retaining the customer; this meant we worked harder to resolve issues with the profitable customers [the 80%+].

 

I was taught that if a business is not careful, then far too much time and money can be consumed by dealing with the cynical and troublesome customers rather than satisfying the needs of the vast majority.

 

.

I think that in pre-internet days this sounds like a perfectly sensible and pragmatic strategy for dealing with complaints. However, the rapid and broadcast nature of publicising of complaints on social media and internet forums such as this one mean that this is now a somewhat high risk strategy. In this more 'connected' age businesses should be looking at their online profile very carefully and will have to go that extra mile to satisfy customers.

 

I wonder how many people who read this who are not presently CMC members have been put off joining a bit by this thread.

 

IMHO ideally CMC should be trying to monitor social media and forums such as this and post an apology with an offer of a refund within the thread.

 

[pepe63xnotuse]

michaelmorris - 2017-12-28 11:36 AM

 

I wonder how many people who read this who are not presently CMC members have been put off joining a bit by this thread.

 

 

If someone is really going to be put off from joining an organisation, based on the opening topic of this thread ( ie the receiving of an automated letter, acknowledging that they had cancelled within the 72 hour deadline),then I can't see that any organisation or commercial operation that can operate a booking system, is ever going to be for them....

(cancelling a booking in almost any other commercial area would result in a financial penalty).

 

Yes, I suppose ideally these letters could have been suspended during the bad weather...but in the general scheme of things, come on, it's an automated letter from a camping "club"...it's not as if it's from the High Court .notifying that they're sending the bailiffs around! (lol)

 

As for the CMC needing to offer an "apology" and a "refund"...

a) I wonder how many no-show punters "apologise" to the sites they leave with unoccupied pitches?

b) The CMC doesn't take money up front anyway... ;-)

[maggyd]

tazdog6007 - 2017-12-11 11:45 AM

 

i have a degree of sympathy here. back in the summer we turned up at rowntree park to be told we were thirty minutes too early and were made to back out and park elsewhere until twelve even though we could see lots of empty pitches. a first offence warning would seem a better approach.the reason given that the council would close the site and turn it into a car park.yer right,and lose a fortune in business rates and ! visitor spend ? i don't think so.anyway,it's not a club it's a business run by a load of old farts. ;-)

 

 

It is well known though that arriving before 1pm you can be turned away! we were once and had to drive to the racecourse to park up , but they did apologise as they had to let the caravan in front of us in as it was too long to back up onto the road that you are'nt allowed to park on.

 

York is notoriously bad for parking so anyone else take note drive slowly and take advantage of anywhere you can pull in if early.

 

 

[michaelmorris]

pepe63 - 2017-12-28 2:26 PM

 

michaelmorris - 2017-12-28 11:36 AM

 

I wonder how many people who read this who are not presently CMC members have been put off joining a bit by this thread.

 

 

If someone is really going to be put off from joining an organisation, based on the opening topic of this thread ( ie the receiving of an automated letter, acknowledging that they had cancelled within the 72 hour deadline),then I can't see that any organisation or commercial operation that can operate a booking system, is ever going to be for them....

(cancelling a booking in almost any other commercial area would result in a financial penalty).

 

Yes, I suppose ideally these letters could have been suspended during the bad weather...but in the general scheme of things, come on, it's an automated letter from a camping "club"...it's not as if it's from the High Court .notifying that they're sending the bailiffs around! (lol)

 

As for the CMC needing to offer an "apology" and a "refund"...

a) I wonder how many no-show punters "apologise" to the sites they leave with unoccupied pitches?

b) The CMC doesn't take money up front anyway... ;-)

 

I was careful to type "put off a bit", not "put off". As with many of this sort of things, it's a slow drip feed of negative comments that influences peoples' decision.

 

I didn't say that the CMC 'needed' to make an apology and offer a refund. It's not a matter who is right or wrong in this sort of situation, commercially that is somewhat irrelevant. I was simply suggesting that it might make good long-term business sense to cultivate a perception amongst potential customers of a caring, responsive, customer-focused organisation.

[breakaleg]

I know there are strange customers after 40 years in retail but there are strange wardens as well!

we have used the cmc site at Minehead on and off over forty years, usually just for a night or sometime two. Never booked in advance and usually a cancellation.

Now the site was created from a old quarry and is quite steep in places I am 6'2'' tall, more stones than I care to mention on here and walk using two walking sticks, what Iam saying it is fairly obvious that I have mobility problems.

So we arrived on site, I was told that we had a choice of two pitches (never good with my missus as she spends most of the rest of the day making her mind up)

The warden say's take a walk around the site to look at the two pitches and choose which one that you want to use, I said can I drive round. NO she says, why not I ask, she says it is a small site and driving round could be difficult, well the van I drive is less than six meters and may have grown slightly over forty years but I don't think that the site has got any smaller.

In the end, she went a chose the pitch, don't what would have happened if I drove back and said it wasn't suitable.

Pete

 

[bodach]

Trouble is some people try to push the boundaries and get an extra “free “day. i.e. they arrive early and leave late if they can get off with it. This of course can rebound on the rest of us who try to abide by the rules. I have arrived at a pitch on a non club site and discovered it occupied by the previous person who should have left by 12 noon. They had left their caravan and gone off with their car for the day. The site was busy in mid season and this caused chaos as the site management tried to get me another pitch which had not been already allocated. Fortunately the site had a mobile number for the offenders and I did overhear what sounded like a fairly acrimonious exchange. No doubt they would then go around complaining about rude site management.

[PeteH]

Interesting thread. Having been "with" the CC. since 1972, I have seen it change somewhat. IMHO, not always for the better, their attitude to Motor-homes generally and the larger ones in particular across the site spectrum being the reason why I still refer to them as the caravan club. Of the sites, Rowntree Park, is/was a particular favourite however we can no longer go, Firstly because it is almost impossible to book 2 days together in any period for the next 365.25 days by the 2nd of January, All the popular week/ends are booked solid and large blocks are "unavailable". Secondly we cannot book anything too far ahead due to medical issues, which has led to me getting quite a few of the "slapped wrist" letters in recent years, by now, had I kept them, I would be able to re-paper my "man cave". I always follow up with a phone call or E-Mail, citing the circumstances for the last minute cancellation. The most recent being a near death experience for my wife.

 

Some years ago, after having for several years spent Xmas/New year at Rowntree Park. We went, in the same 32ft R-V we had been using for virtually All of those years, to be told by the latest incumbent that we were too big for any of "his" pitches!!. This despite, as I attempted to explain, having used a large number of them in the past!. "He" then wanted me to reverse back out into the road, because "he" said I would not be able to navigate "his" site roads. The "gentleman" concerned was very close to having "his" site placed where the "sun don`t shine" by this time. However because we had made all our arrangements around being in York, I did not do what I was tempted to do, but ignored his protestations, drove round "his" roads out into the Riverside lane and went in the overflow area. Now the site was supposedly "Booked Solid". But by Xmas day I and one other where the only occupants of the "overflow area", and there where 6 unoccupied pitches in the main camp site including 2 that I had previously been on.

 

Fast Forward to June 2017. Booked into a site in the Remote(er) parts of Ecosse, whilst on Safari to bring back to civilisation an example the lesser spotted Hagii. I had the (miss)fortune to experience the local version of "Rowntree Park" "jobsworth".

Allocated a pitch which was to say the least, less than level front to rear. I eventually achieved level status without having to climb a mountain to access the Motor-home. However because this was orientated at 90deg to the perceived "norm", the Warder(n) was less than pleased and exhibited his displeasure with the immortal words "ye canna do that man", On being asked why? his answer was "it`s against the rules". The rules meant my wife would have to choose between climbing some "Ben" to access the van or living on a slope for several days, neither of which is conducive to marital harmony. Eventually having formed a committee with his assistant, we agreed to move to another Pitch, involving the removal of the already erected Awning etc;. Only to find that when sited and levelled the pitch was a "no awning" one!.

 

Several E-Mails and Letters to the CC, have as yet not elicited any sort of reasoning for this, beyond the suggestion that I was outwith some 6 metre "rule". Now, as one who has long experience of parking 100`s of Caravans, Motorhomes and Tents in a mixed setup, at rallies, festivals and shows, I am well aware, more so than most, of the necessity for keeping a safe "fire break" between outfits, and for the benefit of "jobsworth" I paced it out (7 Paces, IMV no issue?). But they where adamant I was not going to be allowed to park parallel to the road!. One of the "reasons" was "we will get complaints from other campers". If it where not for the CL site access, I would seriously consider resigning membership, but that facility is primarily why I renew.

 

Oh! and as for the site "trolls". Be my guest. as a Guy once said "you cannot insult me, I have been insulted by experts". :D

[StuartO]

PeteH - 2017-12-31 12:14 PM.... citing the circumstances for the last minute cancellation. The most recent being a near death experience for my wife.....  I did not do what I was tempted to do, but ignored his protestations, drove round "his" roads out into the Riverside lane and went in the overflow area. ... Allocated a pitch which was to say the least, less than level front to rear. I eventually achieved level status without having to climb a mountain to access the Motor-home. However because this was orientated at 90deg to the perceived "norm", the Warder(n) was less than pleased and exhibited his displeasure with the immortal words "ye canna do that man" .... Several E-Mails and Letters to the CC, have as yet not elicited any sort of reasoning for this, beyond the suggestion that I was outwith some 6 metre "rule". ....  I paced it out (7 Paces, IMV no issue?). But they where adamant I was not going to be allowed to park parallel to the road!. One of the "reasons" was "we will get complaints from other campers".

 

I sought an explanation and got as far as talking to the guy who does the site layouts.  The CC (now CAMC) squeeze as many pitches as they can on to their sites, so they resort to pitching pegs to maintain the minimum spacing between units for safety reasons.  The spacing plan relies on camping units being parked perpendicular to the road so they don't occupy excess width on the pitch.  Because the sites are not always flat fields and the pitches aren't always in symetrical rows, it's not always obvious why the pegs are where they are on each pitch - but they are part of a carefully worked out overall plan.  If someone insists on parking a 32 ft RV sideways on a pitch (even if there appears to be room on the pitch) it may well throw the whole safety plan out.  I tend to think that squeezing so many pitches on to a site that pitching pegs and strict adherance is necessary is far from ideal but there are too few sites in UK to accommodate everybody without some compromises.  Using a campsite with others means sharing so we have to be accommodating don't we?

 

Clearly there has to be someone in charge on a site and if the warden finds it necessary to lay down the law then while you might want to complain to his boss afterwards if you feel he was wrong, your choice at the time is to comply or leave the site.

 

If you think your unpredictable health problems entitle you to make as many weekend bookings on a high demand site as you like and cancel them when you feel it necessary at the last minute, you are perhaps being more than a little selfish because it does deprive other people of opportunity.  Likewise if you want to use a conspicuously oversize camping unit, surely you need to accept that if you are on a cramped CAMC site you might have to pitch it where you are told.

 

You and your wife may have an unfair share of health problems and maybe you need a 32 ft RV to go camping - but do you have to take it out on others by demanding explanations and arguing the toss and insisting on doing things your way?  Do you have a blue badge and do you park your large, wide RV on double yellow lines because it is your right, entirely to your own convenience too?

 

[747]

StuartO - 2017-12-31 10:02 AM

PeteH - 2017-12-31 12:14 PM.... citing the circumstances for the last minute cancellation. The most recent being a near death experience for my wife.....  I did not do what I was tempted to do, but ignored his protestations, drove round "his" roads out into the Riverside lane and went in the overflow area. ... Allocated a pitch which was to say the least, less than level front to rear. I eventually achieved level status without having to climb a mountain to access the Motor-home. However because this was orientated at 90deg to the perceived "norm", the Warder(n) was less than pleased and exhibited his displeasure with the immortal words "ye canna do that man" .... Several E-Mails and Letters to the CC, have as yet not elicited any sort of reasoning for this, beyond the suggestion that I was outwith some 6 metre "rule". ....  I paced it out (7 Paces, IMV no issue?). But they where adamant I was not going to be allowed to park parallel to the road!. One of the "reasons" was "we will get complaints from other campers".

 

I sought an explanation and got as far as talking to the guy who does the site layouts.  The CC (now CAMC) squeeze as many pitches as they can on to their sites, so they resort to pitching pegs to maintain the minimum spacing between units for safety reasons.  The spacing plan relies on camping units being parked perpendicular to the road so they don't occupy excess width on the pitch.  Because the sites are not always flat fields and the pitches aren't always in symetrical rows, it's not always obvious why the pegs are where they are on each pitch - but they are part of a carefully worked out overall plan.  If someone insists on parking a 32 ft RV sideways on a pitch (even if there appears to be room on the pitch) it may well throw the whole safety plan out.  I tend to think that squeezing so many pitches on to a site that pitching pegs and strict adherance is necessary is far from ideal but there are too few sites in UK to accommodate everybody without some compromises.  Using a campsite with others means sharing so we have to be accommodating don't we?

 

Clearly there has to be someone in charge on a site and if the warden finds it necessary to lay down the law then while you might want to complain to his boss afterwards if you feel he was wrong, your choice at the time is to comply or leave the site.

 

If you think your unpredictable health problems entitle you to make as many weekend bookings on a high demand site as you like and cancel them when you feel it necessary at the last minute, you are perhaps being more than a little selfish because it does deprive other people of opportunity.  Likewise if you want to use a conspicuously oversize camping unit, surely you need to accept that if you are on a cramped CAMC site you might have to pitch it where you are told.

 

You and your wife may have an unfair share of health problems and maybe you need a 32 ft RV to go camping - but do you have to take it out on others by demanding explanations and arguing the toss and insisting on doing things your way?  Do you have a blue badge and do you park your large, wide RV on double yellow lines because it is your right, entirely to your own convenience too?

You recently started a thread asking for help and got it. Everyone on that thread was civil to you. You seem incapable of the same manners as other members on here. Would you kindly keep your narrow minded, spiteful comments to yourself as it puts off other members from joining in threads as they expect abusive replies.

[Tracker]

It's a long while since I have seen so much spherical objects posted.

 

The answer is very very simple, if you don't like the caravan club and the way it is run just leave and deprive them of your membership fee and see if they care or even notice you've gone because they ain't gonna change now just to suit you.

 

How hard can that be?

[StuartO]

747 - 2018-01-01 3:36 AM You recently started a thread asking for help and got it. Everyone on that thread was civil to you. You seem incapable of the same manners as other members on here. Would you kindly keep your narrow minded, spiteful comments to yourself as it puts off other members from joining in threads as they expect abusive replies.

 

I am aware that I sometimes make cutting remarks and perhaps I should take more care to be more tactful, especially to newish contributors.  But "narrow minded", how come?  And "spiteful", what made my comments that? 

 

You might not agree with my comments but isn't discussion on a forum supposed to involve expressing and challenging different viewpoints?  And this Poster, with a count of over 200, was making damning criticism of CC rules (and wardens' attitudes) which I felt were misinformed or misguided. 

 

Best to do it without resorting to personal insult of course but did I do that simply by suggesting that someone who makes bookings at busy sites and cancels quite a few at the last minute is perhaps being a little selfish?

 

[Derek Uzzell]

I’ve frozen this as it’s plainly become confrontational and the issues have been well explored.

 

(If you don’t like it, complain to the Boss.)