Gnoll120 Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Hi I hope some one can help, I have a 2005 Autocruise Sarasota, I need to change one of the relays. There are two sited just in front of the battery on a Peugeot 2.8 boxer. The only information that's on the relay is 011104 and I am not sure what amperage it is. If anyone can advise I will be very grateful. Regards :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 Gnoll120 - 2018-01-16 8:32 PM The only information that's on the relay is 011104 Regards :-S 011104 will be a manufacturing date, 1st November 2004, so not much use identifying the relay. Take it into a local car accessory store and ask if the can match it or post a photo on here and we'll try. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnoll120 Posted January 16, 2018 Author Share Posted January 16, 2018 Thanks Keith For your reply, I will post a picture tomorrow. Regards Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 If you know what the relay supplies you might be able to calculate it's current loading needs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 16, 2018 Share Posted January 16, 2018 I assume that the relays are part of the motorhome conversion, and not part of the vehicle. Their most likely roles are split charge relay, and fridge 12V element supply. Both will be operated via the D+ alternator field connection when the engine is running, but to save overloading the alternator field circuit it is possible for the split charge relay to be operated from the output connection of the fridge relay. (If too much current is taken from the alternator field circuit, it will be reluctant to start generating.) The fridge element will take about 15A, but the split charge circuit could take rather more if the habitation battery has been discharged. Typical fuse ratings would be 20A and 50A respectively. I can think of no electrical reason why the same relay cannot be used in both applications provided that it is rated at 40A or more. It is also important to consider the relay terminal blade allocation. There seem to be two variants of four blade type relays. This is very important if the relay plugs into a holder rather than having individual female blade connectors. Looking onto the relay blade terminals with one blade horizontal at the top and the others aligned vertically, the top (12 o' clock) terminal is the load (87), and the coil -ve (85) is on the RHS (3 o' clock). Unfortunately the two remaining terminals can be either of 86 (coil +ve) and 30 (supply). Please do be aware that the split charge relay is connected to both habitation and starting battery positive. The fridge relay will be connected to the starting battery positive. I would advise that you disconnect both starting and habitation battery negatives before removing any other connections, of which you should take careful note. You do not say why you need to change a relay. Failures are not common, and you could save some hassle by checking for corroded or loose connections, but do disconnect as above first. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 There’s useful information about 12V relays here https://www.12voltplanet.co.uk/relay-guide.html The following link is to an Autocruise-related listing on the MHFacts forum http://forums.motorhomefacts.com/archive/index.php/f-50.html and (as Alanb has said) it’s likely that one of the two relays adjacent to a Sarasota’s battery handles 12V power to the fridge (and possibly the electric step) and the other is for split-charging. There is USUALLY an indication on the relay as to its Amperage and ‘configuration’ (ref. 1st link above and Alanb’s posting) but it may be necessary to remove the relay to identify those data. If a relay has cables separately connected to its blade-terminals, before disconnecting the cables from the blades make absolutely certain that which cable connects to which blade-terminal is recorded so that the cables can be correctly connected to the replacement relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-01-17 7:46 AM If a relay has cables separately connected to its blade-terminals, before disconnecting the cables from the blades make absolutely certain that which cable connects to which blade-terminal is recorded so that the cables can be correctly connected to the replacement relay. May I emphasise my point that automotive relays are available with two different blade terminal assignments. I would therefore advise that you record the relay terminal numbers, rather than terminal blade position. The terminal numbers for the coil are 86 and 85 for +ve and -ve respectively, while the numbers for the contacts are 30 for supply and 87 for load. Unless the relay is fitted with a diode across the coil, the polarity of the coil should not matter. Similarly the supply and load connections could be interchanged, That being said I would recommend that the standard terminal connections should be used. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnoll120 Posted January 17, 2018 Author Share Posted January 17, 2018 Thanks to all your reply's, Very informative, it is the electric step that's playing up, I am going away for the weekend so it looks like the multimeter will be coming out. I will keep you informed with the results. Thanks again Regards Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 17, 2018 Share Posted January 17, 2018 Howard, Before you spend time and money, are you sure that the relay is to blame for your step problems? Further have you located the correct relay? It could be quite sensibly tucked away somwhere close to the step. The step relay will be a changeover relay with 5 blade terminals. The additional terminal (87a) is the normally closed contact connection. It is usually the centre blade of the five. The function of the step relay is to retract or raise the step when the ignition key is turned, or when the engine starts. Terminal 30 of the relay is connected to the step motor, and with the ignition off conects via terminal 87a to the step manual control switch. With the relay energised via the ignition switch the motor connection at terminal 30 is transferred to a 12V +ve supply connected to terminal 87. This retracts/raises the step. When the step is fully home a limit switch is opened to disconnect the negative connection of the relay coil from 12V -ve/chassis. The step warning light or buzzer is usually connected between the ignition switched supply. and the limit switch, so if the limit switch is not operated a warning is given. The load switched by the normally open contacts of the relay can be quite high, as the step motor is stalled at the time the relay coil is de-energised. A 20A rated relay would probably be OK in this situation, but you may wish to fit a higher rated component. Are you sure of your diagnosis? Have you considered the possibility of the mechanism needing cleaning? If you post the symptoms either I, or another should be able to assist if required, Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Alanb - 2018-01-17 11:11 PM ...Further have you located the correct relay? It could be quite sensibly tucked away somwhere close to the step... True enough - and it might indeed be reasonable to think that the step-relay would be logically located near the step itself. There are, hovever, a few on-line discussions about step-related problems with Autocruise coachbuilt motorhomes of similar age to Howard’s Sarasoto and, when the question “Where is the step-relay located?” is asked, the reply is normally that it is in the engine compartment. For example (relating to a problem with a 2005 Autocruise Stargazer’s twin step) the owner said "I found the relay under the bonnet near the battery. There are two of these and thanks to advice on another thread I have been able to ascertain that the relays seem to work OK. Next job then looks like a dismantle. Is this easy to do?” In that instance details of the problem with the step were not given (though the relay was apparently not the cause) and there was no follow-up from the Staargazer’s owner to say what the fault turned out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Derek, But it has also been said that the step RELAY is quite often controlled by the fridge relay and the fridge relay will most likely be by the battery so possibly a red herring in trying to diagnose a step problem. Unless the fridge doesn't work on 12 volts as well! Keith. Edit to add step RELAY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 Howard originally mentioned that he needed to change a relay fitted to his 2005 Sarasota motorhome, saying that the relay in question was one of two located just in front of the battery. He subsequently stated that the motorhome’s electric step was playing up and (although he did not specifically say so) it’s reasonable to assume that his plan to change the relay was to address the step-related problem. All I’ve said is that on-line comments suggest that one of the relays by the battery is involved with the step’s operation and (presumably) Howard had thought the same or he would not have been planning to replace a relay. With the benefit of hindsight the first response to Howard’s inquiry should have been to ask why he felt it necessary to replace the relay - then it would have become known that there was a step-related problem and that could have been concentrated on. Or if Howard had mentioned in his original posting that there was a problem with his motorhome’s electric step and he was planning to change a relay by the battery, this thread would have taken a different direction. But it’s not possible to wind back Time. Problems with motorhome electric steps can be many and varied. It may very well transpire that replacing the relay has absolutely no effect on the step problem and that, if a relay is the culprit, it is not the one Howard was planning to replace. As Alan has asked “Have you located the correct relay?” and “Are you sure of your diagnosis?” A new relay would not cost much and, if no improvement resulted from replacement, at least that avenue would have been explored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gnoll120 Posted January 18, 2018 Author Share Posted January 18, 2018 Hi Everyone Thanks again for your reply's I will have more information by the end of the weekend. As the motorhome is not kept at home but in storage. So while we are away and my wife puts her feet up I will work back from the step through the switch etc. I also have the original vehicle pack, so there should some information and wiring diagrams in there. Regards and a big thank you to you all on this forum. Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alanb Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Keithl - 2018-01-18 8:34 AM Derek, But it has also been said that the step is quite often controlled by the fridge relay and the fridge relay will most likely be by the battery so possibly a red herring in trying to diagnose a step problem. Unless the fridge doesn't work on 12 volts as well! Keith. Sorry Keith, I do not see how that would work, unless the fridge relay was of the 2 pole variety.. Double pole relays are rare in automotive practice. May I suggest a correction to your post to read:- "But it has also been said that the step RELAY.......". This would make sense, as it would remove unnecessary loading from the D+ connection. Also it would remove the annoying and possibly dangerous problem of the step retracting if the ignition is turned on to read the odometer, or open a window. This is what happens if the step relay is controlled by the ignition switch. Alan May I also suggest that in the UK climate, it could possible to travel with the fridge running on 12V, and not be aware of the fact, if the fridge had been operating on lpg or 240V before the journey. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted January 19, 2018 Share Posted January 19, 2018 Alanb - 2018-01-19 10:13 AM Keithl - 2018-01-18 8:34 AM Derek, But it has also been said that the step is quite often controlled by the fridge relay and the fridge relay will most likely be by the battery so possibly a red herring in trying to diagnose a step problem. Unless the fridge doesn't work on 12 volts as well! Keith. Sorry Keith, I do not see how that would work, unless the fridge relay was of the 2 pole variety.. Double pole relays are rare in automotive practice. May I suggest a correction to your post to read:- "But it has also been said that the step RELAY.......". This would make sense, as it would remove unnecessary loading from the D+ connection. Also it would remove the annoying and possibly dangerous problem of the step retracting if the ignition is turned on to read the odometer, or open a window. This is what happens if the step relay is controlled by the ignition switch. Alan Thanks for the correction Alan. I have just checked the wiring schematic for our AT and that is indeed how it is wired, the Fridge relay sends a 12 V live to the Step relay and retracts the step on engine start up. Keith. Link to Sargent Electrical Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.