SJWBallistic Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I have had this system fitted onto my two previous motorhomes and have purchased a kit from Outdoor Bits. The kit arrived promptly and I have had a quick look prior to installation - I will let the weather warm up first! The installation on the suspension poses me no issues. On my previous vans the guage was installed under the passenger seat. However, I had a look yesterday and there appears to be some electrical connectors there that I assume are standard Fiat. So the two questions I have: Where should I install the guage What is the best route for the air lines into the cab. The motorhome is a 2011 Autotrail Savannah on 3 litre Fiat Ducato. I have sent an e-mail to Outdoor Bits requesting their advice but hoped that some of the people on here may be able to offer their pearls of wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 To some extent it depends on what gauge you have, as Drive-Rite offer several types. https://www.driveriteair.com/en/news-events/product-news-article/all-new-drive-rite-dashboard-mounted-gauge-panels It’s fairly common for the gauge(s) and inflation-valves to be mounted in one of the cab-door footwells (example in attached photo) where it should be straightforward to route the air lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SJWBallistic Posted March 5, 2018 Author Share Posted March 5, 2018 The guage is as: http://www.outdoorbits.com/drive-rite-semi-air-kit-fiat-ducato-2007-onwards-p-2579.html This needs space behind it for the pipework which is why previously it had been so convenient to mount under the seat base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 I can appreciate the potential difficulty (photo attached). It’s the sort of thing I’d want to mull over for a while, but my initial thoughts would be to 1: Remove the gauge and inflation valves from the mounting-panel. 2: Saw off and discard the angled top piece of the gauge’s mounting-panel. 3: Use the panel as a template to cut holes in a cab seat-box’s plastic side. 4: Either screw (or glue) the mounting-panel to the cab seat-box’s plastic side and insert the gauge/valves back in the panel (so the rear of the gauge and the air-line connections would now be inside the seat-box) or insert the gauges/valves directly in the holes in the seat-box’s plastic side and glue the mounting-panel to the inside of the seat-box’s side to act as a strengthener. As leisure-batteries are sometimes installed in a Ducato’s cab seat-box and a battery vent-tube is then (sometimes) led within the seat-box from the battery through the vehicle’s floor to the outside air, it should be practicable to bring the air-lines up through the floor inside the seat-box. (The above sounds OK to me in principle, but I’m just winging it.) Do you HAVE to have the gauge/valves in the cab area - could you not mount the gauge/valves in the rear garage? This might not be so convenient but, as long as you aren’t using an on-board compressor to regularly alter the pressure in the air-bellows units, it should certainly simplify installation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 If there is no obvious(and easy to access) "void" in the cab that is suitable to take the gauge that came with the kit, why not just obtain a flush mounting gauge (as per Derek's photo)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 The gauge in my 1st photo would cost over £70 and there’s no certainty that the air-lines provided with a Drive-Rite ‘kit’ would connect to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 That connector is a white block and called option 081 on fiat And afuse block 7.5- 35 amp to run a compressor. I think it it sits at the same place LHD or RHD. In the A pillar. Your bump stop on alko airtop in inside the bellows. On some french it placed as a mandatory option to get away whit their wheel arch.Not read on any site what the benefit is of all that hussle Tell me the benifits of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-03-05 3:14 PM The gauge in my 1st photo would cost over £70 and there’s no certainty that the air-lines provided with a Drive-Rite ‘kit’ would connect to it. I hadn't realised that gauges were that expensive, I'll be honest (as I didn't bother with gauges on the Dunlop air assistors we had). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 Monique Fitting a ‘semi-air’ kit to a motorhome’s rear suspension should improve straight-line stability on motorways, in strong cross winds and when being overtaken by heavy vehicles. Inflating the kit’s air-bellows allows the rear suspension’s spring-rate to be increased, addressing any rear-end ‘sagging’ due to incorrect loading or over-loading and permitting the vehicle's ride height to be kept level. Body roll on roundabouts and when cornering will be decreased and the ride generally should be improved. Most people fit a semi-air kit to restore the rear ride height of their motorhome. Unlike commercial vans, motorhomes tend to be fully laden most of the time, especially if additional rear racks are fitted to carry bikes etc. and the rear springs will degrade eventually. Air-bellows units will restore the ride height, and people who have had kits retrofitted to their motorhomes normally say they recognise the ‘benefits’ mentioned above (ie. improved ride quality, improved handling and being less prone to side winds and buffeting from large HGVs). Motorhomes with a long rear overhang can have serious ‘grounding’ problems in situations where the road-gradient changes sharply (eg. going on or off a ferry) and having an on-board 12V compressor as part of a semi-air system will allow a motorhome’s driver to quickly and conveniently raise the vehicle’s rear end to temporarily increase rear ground clearance. (I’m sure you know all this, so I’m not certain what ‘benefits’ you are asking about...) There’s useful stuff here: https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/articles/practical-advice/motorhome-levelling-and-sir-suspension-systems-explained Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 5, 2018 Share Posted March 5, 2018 pepe63 - 2018-03-05 4:44 PM Derek Uzzell - 2018-03-05 3:14 PM The gauge in my 1st photo would cost over £70 and there’s no certainty that the air-lines provided with a Drive-Rite ‘kit’ would connect to it. I hadn't realised that gauges were that expensive, I'll be honest (as I didn't bother with gauges on the Dunlop air assistors we had). I think opting for the Drive-Rite kit without a gauge unit (ie. with just the inflation valves) saves about £45, but gauge units bought separately from a kit seem to cost at least £50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted March 6, 2018 Share Posted March 6, 2018 Again nice stipulated Dekek what it can on the rear axle of a fiat ducato. But is does not include all you have said, that is more related to full air suspension front and rear. But if users claim this i will back off and believe them. So any amplitude road test will be irrevelant. To have full air on fiat ducato F/R is amasing. To have it on a alko axle even more. Together whit alko hydraulic feets and underlaying wooden stempel foundation plates as i have have whit hand connection to take away you are standing like a king. and drive on air. Not in any way comparable to a range rover air, that is optima forma and much more tech off-road. I own both. And have had a toyota land cruiser the most stolen jeep in the world. I am now in discussion whit adria and alko why they have only option for air on the rear. First to basic for the alko chassis owners if they are interested in their chassis: It is up to 200 kg less in weight. and flexible to builders to put their things in, like a tech or .double floor. It has a torsion bar axle independent suspension whit two bushes which need grease. On air not. I still not not understand why that axlle made in france is not common since you pay already a price premium of about 7000 euro for a alko chassis, because of one needle bearing. On the ALC alko you get the same but it not retrofitted to air unless a complete axle removal. In case you buy an alko chassis whit full air on a A class motor this is the flowchart of manufacture by a fiat chassis cowl. Made at a seperate line in sevel italy being the only one. A alko interface is welded to it being flat to the cab floor or lower. The famous drop height you see in vans for example.. Then it moves to allko where they bolt on their chassis. in case of full air the front struts are taking out in new condition, not sure what they do whit it. And they complete the air suspesion on their chhassis. all is in their type approval. But now the retrofit. Still having base approval by alko you have to pass cop, conformity of product installers to be in line whit suspension. In that case the following material will be removed from your underbody: front struts,swing arms. torsion bars, shock absorbers,handbrake cable. You can left it at the installer which in case of alko it only alko on put it on ebay or scrap. what a waste. So i advice Buy new a air susp But i liked as a hobby ension. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-03-06 6:32 PM ...But if users claim this i will back off and believe them. In my posting of 5 March 2018 5:37 PM above I said "Fitting a 'semi-air' kit to a motorhome’s rear suspension should improve straight-line stability on motorways, in strong cross winds and when being overtaken by heavy vehicles. Inflating the kit’s air-bellows allows the rear suspension’s spring-rate to be increased, addressing any rear-end ‘sagging’ due to incorrect loading or over-loading and permitting the vehicle's ride height to be kept level. Body roll on roundabouts and when cornering will be decreased and the ride generally should be improved. Most people fit a semi-air kit to restore the rear ride height of their motorhome. Unlike commercial vans, motorhomes tend to be fully laden most of the time, especially if additional rear racks are fitted to carry bikes etc. and the rear springs will degrade eventually. Air-bellows units will restore the ride height, and people who have had kits retrofitted to their motorhomes normally say they recognise the ‘benefits’ mentioned above (ie. improved ride quality, improved handling and being less prone to side winds and buffeting from large HGVs).” I’ve never fitted a semi-air system to any of my three motorhomes because I’ve never been confident it would be worthwhile. I discussed this with a VB-Airsuspension representative at the recent NEC Show, saying that I had wondered about fitting semi-air as a ’tuning’ modification, rather than to address a problem (eg. poor straight-line stability, sagging rear suspension, lack of rear ground clearance, etc.) but had been reluctant to spend a minimum of £300 on a vehicle that displayed none of those characteristics when the effect was unpredictable. There must be forum members that own (or have owned) motorhomes with a retro-fitted rear air-bellows system. Would you like to tell Monique whether fitting a semi-air kit produced the generally claimed benefits (improved ride quality, improved handling, being less prone to side winds and buffeting from large HGVs, etc.) or not. I’d also be interested if anyone has fitted semi-air to their motorhome just because they thought the exercise worth doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-03-07 8:17 AM monique.hubrechts@gm - 2018-03-06 6:32 PM ...But if users claim this i will back off and believe them. In my posting of 5 March 2018 5:37 PM above I said "Fitting a 'semi-air' kit to a motorhome’s rear suspension should improve straight-line stability on motorways, in strong cross winds and when being overtaken by heavy vehicles. Inflating the kit’s air-bellows allows the rear suspension’s spring-rate to be increased, addressing any rear-end ‘sagging’ due to incorrect loading or over-loading and permitting the vehicle's ride height to be kept level. Body roll on roundabouts and when cornering will be decreased and the ride generally should be improved. Most people fit a semi-air kit to restore the rear ride height of their motorhome. Unlike commercial vans, motorhomes tend to be fully laden most of the time, especially if additional rear racks are fitted to carry bikes etc. and the rear springs will degrade eventually. Air-bellows units will restore the ride height, and people who have had kits retrofitted to their motorhomes normally say they recognise the ‘benefits’ mentioned above (ie. improved ride quality, improved handling and being less prone to side winds and buffeting from large HGVs).” I’ve never fitted a semi-air system to any of my three motorhomes because I’ve never been confident it would be worthwhile. I discussed this with a VB-Airsuspension representative at the recent NEC Show, saying that I had wondered about fitting semi-air as a ’tuning’ modification, rather than to address a problem (eg. poor straight-line stability, sagging rear suspension, lack of rear ground clearance, etc.) but had been reluctant to spend a minimum of £300 on a vehicle that displayed none of those characteristics when the effect was unpredictable. There must be forum members that own (or have owned) motorhomes with a retro-fitted rear air-bellows system. Would you like to tell Monique whether fitting a semi-air kit produced the generally claimed benefits (improved ride quality, improved handling, being less prone to side winds and buffeting from large HGVs, etc.) or not. I’d also be interested if anyone has fitted semi-air to their motorhome just because they thought the exercise worth doing. I fitted a Dunlop system from Marcle Leisure to my Murvi X244 two years ago myself. It has transformed the handling of the van making it much more driveable specifically on bends and poor surfaces. The comfort is increased and noise level from the rear suspension is reduced. Also a greater range of gauge options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeJJ Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Last Oct I fitted a semi-air suspension system to AutoSleeper Burford which is on a Mercedes Sprinter chassis. The system was purchased from TL Tech website: http://www.air-suspension.co.uk/ The primary reason for choosing them is that they immediately understood the spring configuration for a post-2014 Sprinter and the location of gauges and routing of airlines. The kits they supply are of very heavy construction and made in Poland, but not sure where the bags themselves originate from. Prior to fitting everyone told me how soft and wallowy the Sprinter chassis is. However, that hearsay now seems to relate to Sprinters prior to the 2014 facelift when there was a significant change to the spring/chassis configuration. The primary reason for fitting was to give about 2-4cm additional clearance under the very long rear overhang which would make me more confident entering a descent into our drive. AutoSleeper seem to deliver their motorhomes with the floor genuinely horizontal which makes them look, from the outside, as if they are tail-down. The upshot is that the original smooth comfortable ride is now more like the hard ride of a Fiat/Alko combination but there is much less roll on corners than originally experienced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Derek Uzzell - 2018-03-07 8:17 AM There must be forum members that own (or have owned) motorhomes with a retro-fitted rear air-bellows system. Would you like to tell Monique whether fitting a semi-air kit produced the generally claimed benefits (improved ride quality, improved handling, being less prone to side winds and buffeting from large HGVs, etc.) or not. I fitted the Dunlop system from Marcle to our Sprinter based MH shortly after purchasing it ten years ago and it has met all my expectations for improving handling, roll and buffeting. I would have no qualms in recommending the system to any other MH'er in a similar situation. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMac46 Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 I fitted one on my 1999 X230. The sway is much reduced. Most obvious thing was that previously the rear springs were almost flat, now they have a curve in them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Yes. 2007 Hobby Van on Ford Transit FWD. MAM 3,500kg. Firestone Drive Right semi air DIY fitted primarily to cure grounding at rear due to longish rear overhang (see pic). Simplest version fitted with no installed pump, each side inflated separately with ordinary bicycle pump. Result: rear ride height restored and grounding eliminated. Unexpected secondary advantages: much improved directional stability, esp on "tramlines", less roll on bends, roundabouts etc., reduced impact from slipstreams of trucks, coaches, etc., more compliant rear suspension due to transfer of part load to the (softer) bellows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 7, 2018 Share Posted March 7, 2018 Likewise to some above: Our (basic Dunlop) kit was fitted primarily to eliminate rear grounding..but with the added(and slightly unexpected) vastly improved "handling"... (photo is of it pulling up our steep drive' before the air-assistors were fitted) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonMac46 Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Following my comment above, I had the system installed by a mechanic in Spain, who was reputed to be a specialist. He plumbed both sides together with only one point to pressurise the system. Seemed odd to me at the time. Any opinions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 JonMac46 - 2018-03-08 11:43 AM Following my comment above, I had the system installed by a mechanic in Spain, who was reputed to be a specialist. He plumbed both sides together with only one point to pressurise the system. Seemed odd to me at the time. Any opinions? I would've thought that each side should remain "independent" of each other(either by being a separate line or by check-valves and taps etc) Otherwise any leaning/swaying forces that are put on to one side, will just "squish" the pressure over to the side that had the forces relieved from it...? ....wouldn't it? :-S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 Having the ability to pressurise each air-bellows individually provides more versatility http://www.aandeleisure.co.uk/vb-semi-air-suspension/ and is (almost certainly) the more common approach. Having a single inflation-valve simplifies the system and, if the objective is just to raise and lower the vehicle’s rear end, should be OK. But, as you say, cornering forces must cause a lateral pressure-change effect. (I’d take a lot of convincing to accept the installation of a single-valve system over a two-valve one.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted March 8, 2018 Share Posted March 8, 2018 This link may be of interest as it describes several inflation options. http://www.marcleleisure.co.uk/store/inflators.php It’s worth noting that, although Optional Upgrade 1 involves a single gauge and a single inflation valve, there is a ‘tap’ at each of the two inlets and the taps allow the air-bellows to be inflated together or individually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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