Brian Kirby Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-22 9:26 AM............................................. So just how much more paperwork is involved in sending something to the USA or the EU?...... https://www.gov.uk/guidance/rules-of-origin Not a lot by the look of it ;-) ........ Plus you only need to do it the once? :D ....... But, that wasn't their concern, as I read the CBI report, Dave. Their concern was that those firms at present only export to the EU: nowhere else. They do so from the UK, which is a member of the EU, so their imports ire internal: within the Customs Union, and within the Single Market. Post Brexit, they will be exporting to the EU from outside both the Single market and the Customs Union. It is the added administration connected with that which the CBI are saying will add cost and time (which itself adds further cost). Someone has to meet those added costs. That will reduce the profitability to the firm of its export business. How that loss of profitability is to be made up is the concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-22 4:41 PM Someone has to meet those added costs. That will reduce the profitability to the firm of its export business. How that loss of profitability is to be made up is the concern. Tariffs B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Yes, and as Trump is now beginning to discover, counter-tariffs. Result, higher costs and lower trade, eventually leading to recession. We know this, because we've been there before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-23 11:00 AM Yes, and as Trump is now beginning to discover, counter-tariffs. Result, higher costs and lower trade, eventually leading to recession. In China ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 25, 2018 Share Posted March 25, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... You live in a 60's time warp. Just how many British made parts do you think Ford used to manufacture that Transit of yours you call 'home'? And next time you have to order a new oem part, ask the dealer which country it's come from. Naturally when you hear it's Germany you will refuse to buy it.........won't you? *-) Brian Kirby - 2018-03-26 4:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) Spuds from a Lincolnshire veg shop? :-S How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. An interesting clip concerning tariffs from Channel 4 news on the Ford plant at Cologne where they were shown round by Fords Vice President, Steven Armstrong. Note all the different countries they rely on for essential parts.....even nuts and bolts! https://www.channel4.com/news/hard-brexit-threat-to-british-motor-industry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-26 4:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. Something wrong your doom & gloom predictions Brian ;-) ...........It's called reality :D ........ Have you not noticed how easy it is to import stuff from non EU countries?......Sat Nav's, phones, clothes etc etc etc.........and all dirt cheap B-) ...... BTW all the spares I need are already in the UK.......they're called scrapyards :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-03-26 5:39 PM An interesting clip concerning tariffs from Channel 4 news on the Ford plant at Cologne where they were shown round by Fords Vice President, Steven Armstrong. Note all the different countries they rely on for essential parts.....even ***nuts*** and bolts! https://www.channel4.com/news/hard-brexit-threat-to-british-motor-industry Well if they ever run short...... there's a few on here we can let them have :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-27 8:39 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-26 4:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. Something wrong your doom & gloom predictions Brian ;-) ...........It's called reality :D ........ Have you not noticed how easy it is to import stuff from non EU countries?......Sat Nav's, phones, clothes etc etc etc.........and all dirt cheap B-) ...... BTW all the spares I need are already in the UK.......they're called scrapyards :D ......... So you accept that the country (and not just Dave Pelmet), will be worse off outside the EU? I'd thought you were arguing the opposite. Just puzzled, that's all. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 27, 2018 Share Posted March 27, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-27 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2018-03-27 8:39 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-26 4:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. Something wrong your doom & gloom predictions Brian ;-) ...........It's called reality :D ........ Have you not noticed how easy it is to import stuff from non EU countries?......Sat Nav's, phones, clothes etc etc etc.........and all dirt cheap B-) ...... BTW all the spares I need are already in the UK.......they're called scrapyards :D ......... So you accept that the country (and not just Dave Pelmet), will be worse off outside the EU? I'd thought you were arguing the opposite. Just puzzled, that's all. :-D Eh? :-S .......How did you come to that conclusion? *-) ........... Just even more puzzled 8-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-27 1:53 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-27 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2018-03-27 8:39 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-26 4:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. Something wrong your doom & gloom predictions Brian ;-) ...........It's called reality :D ........ Have you not noticed how easy it is to import stuff from non EU countries?......Sat Nav's, phones, clothes etc etc etc.........and all dirt cheap B-) ...... BTW all the spares I need are already in the UK.......they're called scrapyards :D ......... So you accept that the country (and not just Dave Pelmet), will be worse off outside the EU? I'd thought you were arguing the opposite. Just puzzled, that's all. :-D Eh? :-S .......How did you come to that conclusion? *-) ........... Just even more puzzled 8-) ........ Just what you wrote, Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 28, 2018 Share Posted March 28, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-28 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2018-03-27 1:53 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-27 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2018-03-27 8:39 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-26 4:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. Something wrong your doom & gloom predictions Brian ;-) ...........It's called reality :D ........ Have you not noticed how easy it is to import stuff from non EU countries?......Sat Nav's, phones, clothes etc etc etc.........and all dirt cheap B-) ...... BTW all the spares I need are already in the UK.......they're called scrapyards :D ......... So you accept that the country (and not just Dave Pelmet), will be worse off outside the EU? I'd thought you were arguing the opposite. Just puzzled, that's all. :-D Eh? :-S .......How did you come to that conclusion? *-) ........... Just even more puzzled 8-) ........ Just what you wrote, Dave. Wrote what?........that we wont get the same terms as we do now from the other 165 countries that we can trade with?........Or just the other 27 that need our "custom"? ......... Just askin ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W3526602 Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 Hi, The EU sends more stuff to the UK than we send them. So if we both hit each other with tariffs, their goods will pay more than our goods. Two interesting outcomes. UK manufacturers will have an advantage when selling stuff in the UK, as there will be no internal tariffs for them. Why did Peugeot want to buy Vauxhall? The UK Government could save all the tariffs they collect, and use the kitty to subsidise UK producers who export to the EU. Yes, the EU could do the same, but we will collect more in tariffs than they do, so we win, due to their "own goal". I resent being told why I voted for Brexit. I voted for Brexit because I wanted OUT. As simple as that. I cast my one vote. Others had a different agendas, and they cast their one vote. 52 is nearly 10% more than 42, not 4%.. I regard 10% as more than a "slight" advantage. The Scots also had one vote each ... but they tried to claim that Scotland was entitled to extra votes. Seens fair, provided the other three countries got extra votes too. Elephant in the room ... AKA the Irish Border. Three options? What about the 4th option? .... that nobody has mentioned .... Southern Ireland could secede from the EU. Would that make economic sense? Asking, coz I don't know. Of course, we would need to think of a name for the "North East Atlantic Islands", that was acceptable to all FIVE chapters. Then we could build a bridge between Scotland and Ireland .... it's only about 30 miles. Better still, build a dam with road and rail on top, use the head of tidal water to generate electricity (I think I'm joking) 602 (Citizen of the Treasure Islands) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 29, 2018 Share Posted March 29, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-28 9:53 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-28 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2018-03-27 1:53 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-27 11:39 AM pelmetman - 2018-03-27 8:39 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-26 4:59 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-25 9:28 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-24 4:19 PM That may be true for the US, but we hardly sell China enough for tariffs to be a concern for us. However, wherever we stick a tariff, it reasonable a counter tariff will be applied to our exports. No-one wins, all lose to varying extents. Tit for tat is how the world is. Incorrect......It's folk like you who feel the need to buy German campers, that will be paying the tariff's who will lose :D ........ Wont make a blind bit of difference to me......except the country will be better of B-) .......... Really? So what do you buy that has no imported elements - when you're actually here, of course? :-) How will the country be better off? Are you assuming we'll not impose tariffs on imports under WTO terms, even if those countries apply WTO tariffs to our exports? What would we do then? Send a gunboat? Tariffs, and non tariff barriers to trade, all impose costs on import/export business, and those costs get passed on to the buyer. Higher costs = lower sales = higher unemployment = higher government spending = more borrowing or higher taxes. Something wrong your doom & gloom predictions Brian ;-) ...........It's called reality :D ........ Have you not noticed how easy it is to import stuff from non EU countries?......Sat Nav's, phones, clothes etc etc etc.........and all dirt cheap B-) ...... BTW all the spares I need are already in the UK.......they're called scrapyards :D ......... So you accept that the country (and not just Dave Pelmet), will be worse off outside the EU? I'd thought you were arguing the opposite. Just puzzled, that's all. :-D Eh? :-S .......How did you come to that conclusion? *-) ........... Just even more puzzled 8-) ........ Just what you wrote, Dave. Wrote what?........that we wont get the same terms as we do now from the other 165 countries that we can trade with?........Or just the other 27 that need our "custom"? ......... Just askin ;-) ........ No again, Dave. I think you're now losing your own point. You were claiming that the businesses in question would be compensated for the additional cost of administration due leaving the EU, by the imposition of tariffs on imports from the EU. (Which is clearly not the case, because the tariffs on imports go to the treasury, and not to the manufacturers of our exports.) You then wrote above "Have you not noticed how easy it is to import stuff from non EU countries?......Sat Nav's, phones, clothes etc etc etc.........and all dirt cheap B-)" But those imports from outside the EU are already subject to tariffs, so their UK price is unlikely to change on that score. OTOH, were we to impose tariffs on goods imported from within the EU, which presently carry no tariffs, the EU would impose similar tariffs on our exports to them, which would merely further increase the cost of our EU exports and reduce their volume. What you seem to be saying is that by hitting our exporters with increased administration costs, and again with retaliatory tariffs, and by increasing our imports from outside the EU, we shall all be better off. That to me seems the reverse of what is likely: that our exports will reduce, and with it our turnover, increasing our unemployment and, as a consequence, we shall not be able to afford all those imports as we presently can. I think that points to (unrecognised) acceptance that we shall be worse off. That is what I said above. That is the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-29 4:49 PM No again, Dave. I think you're now losing your own point. You were claiming that the businesses in question would be compensated for the additional cost of administration due leaving the EU, by the imposition of tariffs on imports from the EU. (Which is clearly not the case, because the tariffs on imports go to the treasury, and not to the manufacturers of our exports.) . Which is exactly my point ;-) ..........The treasury could then pass on any negative impact of paperwork back to those businesses in the form of tax breaks of some kind ;-) ....... BTW hasn't the Sainted Theresa already given a similar reinsurance to the motor industry (?) ...... Just askin? :-> .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 30, 2018 Author Share Posted March 30, 2018 The motor industry is already fooked Dave. Taking a dive right now and expected to carry on doing so even before Brexit while the motor industry in Europe is booming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-30 8:19 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-29 4:49 PM No again, Dave. I think you're now losing your own point. You were claiming that the businesses in question would be compensated for the additional cost of administration due leaving the EU, by the imposition of tariffs on imports from the EU. (Which is clearly not the case, because the tariffs on imports go to the treasury, and not to the manufacturers of our exports.) . Which is exactly my point ;-) ..........The treasury could then pass on any negative impact of paperwork back to those businesses in the form of tax breaks of some kind ;-) ....... BTW hasn't the Sainted Theresa already given a similar reinsurance to the motor industry (?) ...... Just askin? :-> .......... The Sainted Theresa has said many things since the Brexit vote, most of which don't make any sense, and many of which have not been realised. Were we to do as you/she suggest, the EU would say we were unfairly subsidising our exports, and would apply tariffs to them. Where's your advantage then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-30 1:05 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-30 8:19 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-29 4:49 PM No again, Dave. I think you're now losing your own point. You were claiming that the businesses in question would be compensated for the additional cost of administration due leaving the EU, by the imposition of tariffs on imports from the EU. (Which is clearly not the case, because the tariffs on imports go to the treasury, and not to the manufacturers of our exports.) . Which is exactly my point ;-) ..........The treasury could then pass on any negative impact of paperwork back to those businesses in the form of tax breaks of some kind ;-) ....... BTW hasn't the Sainted Theresa already given a similar reinsurance to the motor industry (?) ...... Just askin? :-> .......... The Sainted Theresa has said many things since the Brexit vote, most of which don't make any sense, and many of which have not been realised. Were we to do as you/she suggest, the EU would say we were unfairly subsidising our exports, and would apply tariffs to them. Where's your advantage then? So you are saying Germany didn't give energy subsidies to its steel industry? ;-) ........ What about the French government giving EDF a nice bung eh? *-) ....... https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-edf-britain-subsidies/greenpeace-files-state-aid-complaint-with-eu-over-edf-recapitalization-idUKKCN18D0MV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-30 2:47 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-30 1:05 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-30 8:19 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-29 4:49 PM No again, Dave. I think you're now losing your own point. You were claiming that the businesses in question would be compensated for the additional cost of administration due leaving the EU, by the imposition of tariffs on imports from the EU. (Which is clearly not the case, because the tariffs on imports go to the treasury, and not to the manufacturers of our exports.) . Which is exactly my point ;-) ..........The treasury could then pass on any negative impact of paperwork back to those businesses in the form of tax breaks of some kind ;-) ....... BTW hasn't the Sainted Theresa already given a similar reinsurance to the motor industry (?) ...... Just askin? :-> .......... The Sainted Theresa has said many things since the Brexit vote, most of which don't make any sense, and many of which have not been realised. Were we to do as you/she suggest, the EU would say we were unfairly subsidising our exports, and would apply tariffs to them. Where's your advantage then? So you are saying Germany didn't give energy subsidies to its steel industry? ;-) ........ What about the French government giving EDF a nice bung eh? *-) ....... https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-edf-britain-subsidies/greenpeace-files-state-aid-complaint-with-eu-over-edf-recapitalization-idUKKCN18D0MV You forget that all important phrase, Dave: "that was then, this is now". The past is no guide to the future. If the EU were satisfied with what France and Germany did, and no-one challenged it (not even the UK), it was presumably deemed within the rules (even by the UK) for a member of the EU to do whatever was done. In future we will not be a member, but will presumably have undertaken to adhere to the EU rules to maintain access to the market. So, who would adjudicate on whether a subsidy such as you suggest, for British exports, breaks EU rules. The ECJ? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-30 3:09 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-30 2:47 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-30 1:05 PM pelmetman - 2018-03-30 8:19 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-03-29 4:49 PM No again, Dave. I think you're now losing your own point. You were claiming that the businesses in question would be compensated for the additional cost of administration due leaving the EU, by the imposition of tariffs on imports from the EU. (Which is clearly not the case, because the tariffs on imports go to the treasury, and not to the manufacturers of our exports.) . Which is exactly my point ;-) ..........The treasury could then pass on any negative impact of paperwork back to those businesses in the form of tax breaks of some kind ;-) ....... BTW hasn't the Sainted Theresa already given a similar reinsurance to the motor industry (?) ...... Just askin? :-> .......... The Sainted Theresa has said many things since the Brexit vote, most of which don't make any sense, and many of which have not been realised. Were we to do as you/she suggest, the EU would say we were unfairly subsidising our exports, and would apply tariffs to them. Where's your advantage then? So you are saying Germany didn't give energy subsidies to its steel industry? ;-) ........ What about the French government giving EDF a nice bung eh? *-) ....... https://uk.reuters.com/article/us-edf-britain-subsidies/greenpeace-files-state-aid-complaint-with-eu-over-edf-recapitalization-idUKKCN18D0MV You forget that all important phrase, Dave: "that was then, this is now". The past is no guide to the future. If the EU were satisfied with what France and Germany did, and no-one challenged it (not even the UK), it was presumably deemed within the rules (even by the UK) for a member of the EU to do whatever was done. In future we will not be a member, but will presumably have undertaken to adhere to the EU rules to maintain access to the market. So, who would adjudicate on whether a subsidy such as you suggest, for British exports, breaks EU rules. The ECJ? :-D So it'll be back to tit for tat ;-) ........ Looks like it'll be folk who like German tat who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ Suits me :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-03-30 3:16 PM................................So it'll be back to tit for tat ;-) ........ Looks like it'll be folk who like German tat who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ Suits me :D .......... So when was it tit for tat? How would that be better? You think the tariffs will be applied to German goods only? I'd have thought they would apply to all imports in compliance with WTO rules. But, add tariffs to imports and what happens? Prices rise. What happens when prices rise? People can't afford the goods, or they don't buy from choice. What happens when people can't afford the goods, or don't buy from choice? Sales, fall. What happens when sales fall? Retail businesses shrink, or fail. What happens when businesses shrink, of fail? Unemployment rises. What happens when unemployment rises? People have less to spend, so can't afford the goods. And so on. It's a spiral. Add to that that if country A finds that country B has begun adding tariffs to their goods, it will add retaliatory tariffs to imports from country B. So, clever country B now finds its exports are overpriced in country A's market, and its sales drop. Then see above for the results of falling sales in the producer country's market. Another spiral. Result? Recession. So yes, imposing tariffs on imports is likely to be a brilliant idea......................................................if you like recessions. :-D That may suit Dave P, but it's unlikely to appeal to anyone else, don't you think? Little Jack Horner? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 W3526602 - 2018-03-29 9:26 AM I resent being told why I voted for Brexit. I voted for Brexit because I wanted OUT. As simple as that. I cast my one vote. Others had a different agendas, and they cast their one vote. 52 is nearly 10% more than 42, not 4%.. I regard 10% as more than a "slight" advantage. I think you made a serious 'typo' there as those figures don't stack up! Leave vote was 51.89% and Remain 48.11% making a differential between the two of just 3.78% which is miniscule. So your figure of 10% is wildly out i'm afraid. I'm sure you must also be aware of the statement Farage came out with during the run up before the vote, that if the result went 52-48 in favour of Remain he would see it as "unfinished business" and call for a second vote as that wouldn't be a decisive enough margin. Oh the irony!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 30, 2018 Share Posted March 30, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-03-30 4:30 PM But, add tariffs to imports and what happens? Prices rise. What happens when prices rise? People can't afford the goods, or they don't buy from choice. What happens when people can't afford the goods, or don't buy from choice? Sales, fall. What happens when sales fall? Retail businesses shrink, or fail. What happens when businesses shrink, of fail? Unemployment rises. What happens when unemployment rises? People have less to spend, so can't afford the goods. And so on. It's a spiral. Which is precisely why despite all the bluster from the EU ;-) ........ They need us to prosper so that we can buy their Tat :D ....... So that THEIR economy's don't spiral down the toilet >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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