Push Fit Connector - 12mm piping - temp repair?

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

Keith as far as i understand JG PF should be released by hand and your fingers to release the the theets out of the pipe, And not by collars. At least in my former beloved Chausson. We should clear this on present users who have not these collars. In which case are they their?

[Derek Uzzell]

I get the impression that it’s believed that all push-fit connectors are “John Guest” fittings - this is not the case.

 

There is a number of manufacturers producing 'push-fit’ products and, even when genuine "John Guest” fittings are involved, the design of the fitting is not completely standardised. For example, although it’s possible to release some “John Guest” connectors merely by manually pushing against the connector’s plastic collet, other John Guest connectors incorporate a twist-lock mechanism that, if locked, must be untwisted before the collet is pushed in.

 

To guard against the collet being pushed in acciidentally, some push-fit fittings can have a protective cover that clips over the collet (and in my Herald motohome made removing the water-filter a real hassle) or there is a removable push-in clip that goes behind the collet

 

http://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/product/general-accessories/collet-cover-2/

 

Pushing against the collet to release a fitting is not always easy and various tools are marketed to aid that procedure (example here)

 

http://www.johnguest.com/speedfit/product/general-accessories/release-aid/

 

A motorhome converter will decide what type of water system to install and which water outlets to use, and the converter will then select suitable connectors. As I suggested earlier, I don’t think the braided ‘pigtails’ attached to Arthur49’s shower tap are genuine “John Guest” products - they are just braided tails that allow the shower-tap chosen by Auto-Trail to be connected to the type of semi-rigid plastic water pipework Auto-Trail has decided to use.

 

The attached photo is of the ends of a product advertised on-line as a "300mm M10 Flexi Tap Hose Tail to John Guest/Whale 12mm Push Fit” with a price of £8.95. The push-fit end looks identical to the one in Arthur49’s earlier photo (though the pigtails in Arthur’s photo evidently carry ‘hot/cold’ markings) and I’m guessng that the white part on the fittings in Arthur’s photo is to protect the collet from being pushed in accidentally.

[arthur49]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-04-25 8:24 AM

 

.... and I’m guessng that the white part on the fittings in Arthur’s photo is to protect the collet from being pushed in accidentally.

 

Correct Derek. There is a white circlip with a protruding 'square' to enable extraction of the circlip. Thereafter the collet is pushed in and pipe pulled away.

As far as I can see all push fit connectors are John Guest - marked JG - except the tails, one of which failed.

[arthur49]

UPDATE:

After just over 4 weeks touring in Germany, Denmark etc, the shower hot water connection behaved perfectly. No more leaks so that particular problem is fixed.

 

There's always a 'but'!

 

My wife was cleaning the toilet. She pressed the rinse button briefly, the rinse water ran .... and ran .... and ran. Panic. It would not stop. I was not immediately about and my wife was unsure how to stop the rinse. I heard her shouts, ran in and switched off the pump at control panel. By this time rinse water was over the bowl rim and onto the shower tray. Fortunately the plug was out and it was clean water. I shudder to think about the mess if a 'deposit' was in the bowl 8-) 8-) 8-) 8-)

 

The flush switch is faulty. Stays on. Temp solution was to disconnect the flush pump - easily done by disconnecting two spade terminals in the cassette compartment.

 

There are other issues with this van which I'll not bore you with but any enthusiasm for this van have gone, so much so, that at 4 months old, 2500 miles, we're looking to trade in.

[mgnbuk]

"By this time rinse water was over the bowl rim and onto the shower tray"

 

Wouldn't opening the shutter & allowing the water in the bowl into the cassette have prevented the overflow & given a bit more time to shut off the pump ?

 

"There are other issues with this van which I'll not bore you with but any enthusiasm for this van have gone, so much so, that at 4 months old, 2500 miles, we're looking to trade in."

 

I was in a simliar situation last year - it was 6 months & 4000 miles for me with a Euro 6 Ford & is not a great position to be in. When you loose faith (or confidence) in a vehicle, moving on is probably the best (if not the cheapest) way forward.

 

Nigel B

[arthur49]

"By this time rinse water was over the bowl rim and onto the shower tray

 

Wouldn't opening the shutter & allowing the water in the bowl into the cassette have prevented the overflow & given a bit more time to shut off the pump ?"

 

Correct. But my dear wife in her panic never thought of that. I came in the entrance door and the nearest quickest solution was to turn off pump

 

"There are other issues with this van which I'll not bore you with but any enthusiasm for this van have gone, so much so, that at 4 months old, 2500 miles, we're looking to trade in.

 

I was in a simliar situation last year - it was 6 months & 4000 miles for me with a Euro 6 Ford & is not a great position to be in. When you loose faith (or confidence) in a vehicle, moving on is probably the best (if not the cheapest) way forward."

 

Interesting. One van we are considering is a 2017 Chausson 610 you have but the one we've seen is on a Ford Transit base. Can I ask what your issues were with the Ford base vehicle?

[mgnbuk]

"One van we are considering is a 2017 Chausson 610 you have but the one we've seen is on a Ford Transit base. Can I ask what your issues were with the Ford base vehicle?"

 

Briefly - unreliable, uneconomical, uncomfortable while driving & not "user friendly" when parked.

 

In more depth - mine was (past tense - I no longer have it) one of the first Euro 6, 2 litre 170hp models. It went into "limp mode" 4 miles after picking it up from the MH dealer & was in the Ford dealer with 32 miles on the clock. The Ford dealer insisted on carrying out a cam drive gear recal before investigating the loss of power & limp mode issue - eventually diagnosed as "corroded injectors" - which were on back order. I eventually got a working van 6 weeks after picking it up - 5 of which were parked - undrivable - at the Ford dealer. Ford's genereous "compensation" was a time-limited £100 service voucher.

 

In use, I found the van to be grossly overgeared - it was not happy to pull 6th gear up even moderate inclines at less than 65mph - not a lot of use as I tow a motorcycle trailer a lot of the time. When it started to slow down, if a very swift change to 5th wasn't made it wouldn't pull in 5th either - it got to the point where I just changed from 6th to 4th to save time. Performance really dropped off with altitude - I had taken the same trailer & bikes over the Brenner the year before with a 130hp Ducato & held 60 without problems & it would accelerate back to 60 after restrictions. The Ford wouldn't go faster than 50 in 4th.

 

Fuel encomy was worse than the Ducato, at between 23 & 26 mpg. Adblue use was higher than expected, at around 160-170 miles per litre. Fuelling was more awkward than the Fiat, as the Ford has a small "capless" filler neck that requires the filler spout to be jammed in hard to open an inner flap - don't jam it in far enough & fuelling is very slow. Getting to the filler neck requires the passenger door ro be opened to open the flap & diesel fumes get into the cab as a result. Mrs B accused me of having paddled in spilt fuel the first time, as the van stank. Subsequent refuels were all the same, though.

 

I found the cab seats uncomfortable. The lumbar was too low & pressed against my pelvis. The seat cushions were lacking side support & thinly unholstered. As I still work, I have to do a couple of long days to get down to Austria/ / Italy within a fixed holiday break. First long trip in the Ford had me sat on the seat frame after 6 hours & subsequently a "numb bum" - 11 hours in the Fiat wasn't a problem.

 

The ride is very soft compared to the Fiat, but this caused chassis pitching when towing. Ride quality deteriorated noticably during the 5400 miles I did - enough that Mrs B commented on the uncomfortable lurches that came as a result of catching a pothole with a front wheel.

 

On site, the lack of a flat floor caused problems moving between cab & hab, a problem compounded by the storage cubby holes along the top of the windscreen - banged heads normally resulted. The seat swivels were on top of the front to back adjuster, so it wasn't possible to move the seats away from the cab side when swivelled & the seat back rubbed on the cab. Fully turning the driver's seat required the steering wheel to be repositioned. When swivelled, the cab seats were at a substantially different height to the hab seats & didn't allow easy use of the table.

 

On the plus side, compared to the Fiat the Ford dash was easier to read & the cruise control both held speed btter (if it was going fast enough ...) & was easier to use. Under bonnet access was easier, with the bonnet being released from outside the van at the front. Engine, road & wind noise was well controlled & the heating and air con worked well.

 

I breathed a deep sigh of relief when it went - while it didn't muff at all after the injectors were replaced, I just didn't trust it and, more particularly, I didn't trust Ford to sort it in a timely manner if it did have issues in the future.

 

I replaced it with a Ducato 150 version of the Welcome 610 this March. The Fiat is, for me, a better vehicle to drive - more comfortable, more flexible, just as quiet and, with the flat floor, easier to transition between driving & living areas. No Adblue & last tank consumption was 26mpg which, if this is like my last 130 Ducato, will improve over the next 10-15,000 miles (the Ford didn't improve in 5400).

 

Be aware that, after the problems with the corroded injectors (my supplying MH dealer suggested that nearly half the Transits he had supplied last year had been affected), Trigano Group Euro 6 Transits had the warranty increased to 5 years / 50,000 miles from July last year - I got a letter to say that this had been back-dated to offer the same cover to my 1st March registered van & there should be something similar for the van you are interested in if that is a Euro6 version.

 

Be aware also that the level of support offered by Ford is way short of that offered by Fiat for their motorhome customers - Ford's ideal of quick response to a "new vehicle off the road" situation was to take 3 weeks to get replacement injectors from Cologne to Huddersfield.

 

On the Chausson side, the 610 layout works well for us & payload, while tight at 3500kg, is "doable". A 2018 spec van is about 75kg better than a 2017 in this regard & the Fiat base is about 50kg lighter than the Ford for either year. Build quality could be better, but isn't "bad". It has a well insulated hab area (no comfort problems at -5 C last December) and the drop-down bed is roomy & comfortable. I can't say I am a big fan of the Webasto heating, as it is a bit noisy (inside the van - outside it is near silent) & heat distribution isn't great. It heats up the main living area quickly, but heat output into the bathroom is poor - on hook-up we use a fan heater here.

 

HTH

 

Nigel B

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

That is a big cake of comments. It is up to you to find out if you are happy whit fiat-ford-iveco-sprinter etc. All convertors use the same equipment on the market. But the house is branded design. So your comment is irrevalent to a certain brand named, Apart from strict quality control on the Push Fit connector. :-)

[arthur49]

mgnbuk - 2018-06-02 5:06 PM

 

"One van we are considering is a 2017 Chausson 610 you have but the one we've seen is on a Ford Transit base. Can I ask what your issues were with the Ford base vehicle?"

 

Briefly - unreliable, uneconomical, uncomfortable while driving & not "user friendly" when parked.

 

In more depth - mine was (past tense - I no longer have it) one of the first Euro 6, 2 litre 170hp models. It went into "limp mode" 4 miles after picking it up from the MH dealer & was in the Ford dealer with 32 miles on the clock. The Ford dealer insisted on carrying out a cam drive gear recal before investigating the loss of power & limp mode issue - eventually diagnosed as "corroded injectors" - which were on back order. I eventually got a working van 6 weeks after picking it up - 5 of which were parked - undrivable - at the Ford dealer. Ford's genereous "compensation" was a time-limited £100 service voucher.

 

In use, I found the van to be grossly overgeared - it was not happy to pull 6th gear up even moderate inclines at less than 65mph - not a lot of use as I tow a motorcycle trailer a lot of the time. When it started to slow down, if a very swift change to 5th wasn't made it wouldn't pull in 5th either - it got to the point where I just changed from 6th to 4th to save time. Performance really dropped off with altitude - I had taken the same trailer & bikes over the Brenner the year before with a 130hp Ducato & held 60 without problems & it would accelerate back to 60 after restrictions. The Ford wouldn't go faster than 50 in 4th.

 

Fuel encomy was worse than the Ducato, at between 23 & 26 mpg. Adblue use was higher than expected, at around 160-170 miles per litre. Fuelling was more awkward than the Fiat, as the Ford has a small "capless" filler neck that requires the filler spout to be jammed in hard to open an inner flap - don't jam it in far enough & fuelling is very slow. Getting to the filler neck requires the passenger door ro be opened to open the flap & diesel fumes get into the cab as a result. Mrs B accused me of having paddled in spilt fuel the first time, as the van stank. Subsequent refuels were all the same, though.

 

I found the cab seats uncomfortable. The lumbar was too low & pressed against my pelvis. The seat cushions were lacking side support & thinly unholstered. As I still work, I have to do a couple of long days to get down to Austria/ / Italy within a fixed holiday break. First long trip in the Ford had me sat on the seat frame after 6 hours & subsequently a "numb bum" - 11 hours in the Fiat wasn't a problem.

 

The ride is very soft compared to the Fiat, but this caused chassis pitching when towing. Ride quality deteriorated noticably during the 5400 miles I did - enough that Mrs B commented on the uncomfortable lurches that came as a result of catching a pothole with a front wheel.

 

On site, the lack of a flat floor caused problems moving between cab & hab, a problem compounded by the storage cubby holes along the top of the windscreen - banged heads normally resulted. The seat swivels were on top of the front to back adjuster, so it wasn't possible to move the seats away from the cab side when swivelled & the seat back rubbed on the cab. Fully turning the driver's seat required the steering wheel to be repositioned. When swivelled, the cab seats were at a substantially different height to the hab seats & didn't allow easy use of the table.

 

On the plus side, compared to the Fiat the Ford dash was easier to read & the cruise control both held speed btter (if it was going fast enough ...) & was easier to use. Under bonnet access was easier, with the bonnet being released from outside the van at the front. Engine, road & wind noise was well controlled & the heating and air con worked well.

 

I breathed a deep sigh of relief when it went - while it didn't muff at all after the injectors were replaced, I just didn't trust it and, more particularly, I didn't trust Ford to sort it in a timely manner if it did have issues in the future.

 

I replaced it with a Ducato 150 version of the Welcome 610 this March. The Fiat is, for me, a better vehicle to drive - more comfortable, more flexible, just as quiet and, with the flat floor, easier to transition between driving & living areas. No Adblue & last tank consumption was 26mpg which, if this is like my last 130 Ducato, will improve over the next 10-15,000 miles (the Ford didn't improve in 5400).

 

Be aware that, after the problems with the corroded injectors (my supplying MH dealer suggested that nearly half the Transits he had supplied last year had been affected), Trigano Group Euro 6 Transits had the warranty increased to 5 years / 50,000 miles from July last year - I got a letter to say that this had been back-dated to offer the same cover to my 1st March registered van & there should be something similar for the van you are interested in if that is a Euro6 version.

 

Be aware also that the level of support offered by Ford is way short of that offered by Fiat for their motorhome customers - Ford's ideal of quick response to a "new vehicle off the road" situation was to take 3 weeks to get replacement injectors from Cologne to Huddersfield.

 

On the Chausson side, the 610 layout works well for us & payload, while tight at 3500kg, is "doable". A 2018 spec van is about 75kg better than a 2017 in this regard & the Fiat base is about 50kg lighter than the Ford for either year. Build quality could be better, but isn't "bad". It has a well insulated hab area (no comfort problems at -5 C last December) and the drop-down bed is roomy & comfortable. I can't say I am a big fan of the Webasto heating, as it is a bit noisy (inside the van - outside it is near silent) & heat distribution isn't great. It heats up the main living area quickly, but heat output into the bathroom is poor - on hook-up we use a fan heater here.

 

HTH

 

Nigel B

 

Many thanks Nigel. Its useful to have input from someone who's had a Transit

[Marcol]

I understand your anti Ford stance Nigel after all the problems you had with the first of the new Transit chassis’. I would probably have felt the same if I had all the problems you had. But it’s a funny old world as I disagree with 90% of what you say. I have the Transit 170 Auto and its an absolute gem. It’s the most comfortable, most powerful, most economical motorhome I’ve had. I do agree that Ford’s customer service is a joke. But after the EGR valve fiasco so, it appears, is Fiat’s. It’s a shame when we get a lemon and you obviously did , when all we want is to enjoy our motorhomes.