Safety measures camping on French aires

[Gerry McG]

i'm struggling to see you are labouring your positions on Alarms.

No one has ever suggested they are a panacea... a replacement for good judgement and common sense, and can't be used in conjunction with other security approaches such as deadlocks etc... they all add up to a layered security approach...

 

in the case you were so keen to draw attention to, you forgot to also note that the presence of deadlocks did not stop a determined intruder - as they ended up breaking in through a window.....

 

notwithstanding that, the sounding alarm may have meant the burglar had to operate more quickly than they would have wanted to, therefore only taking things easily found. but

 

the OP was in particular asking about alarms as a result of being robbed whilst asleep in a van at a service station - it is clear that

*first of all, not stopping at a high risk location to sleep may have avoided the robbery,

*next, an active alarm may have discouraged a burglar from actually targeting the van, and choosing a softer target;

* enhanced security measures such as deadlocks or door lock protection may have stopped the burglar gaining access, and finally

*finally, an active alarm would have sounded on door opening if the burglar gained entry by opening a door, which would hopefully have scared them off and woken the OP up.

 

to me it is clear there is a role for an alarm, but there is also a responsibility to minimise the risk by stopping at "smart" locations, and also to consider enhancing the van security....

 

You are not going to stop a determined burglar, but you are able to take steps to minimise the risk, make it difficult and put off the opportunist by making the chance of discovery more likely.

 

its the same as home security....

you can choose to do nothing and make it easy for a burglar to gain easy entry by leaving doors and windows unlocked, having cheap door locks, leaving ladders outside, having "private gardens that let them work unobserved, having no alarm, no security lights etc or you can take simple steps to make your property less attractive to the opportunist. it is likely they will target your neighbour who has taken no steps to protect themselves instead.

 

but no security will discourage a determined burglar - they will smash doors and windows, climb fences and operate brazenly - ignore alarms etc - but you have done what you can do...

 

that's my 2p

 

[Solomongrundy]

The Motorhome designated Aires system isn't perfect but it's as safe as you'd get anywhere parking up your expensive pride and joy.

 

We've seen a few Aires that you wouldn't touch with a barge pole (dirty, mess everywhere, rats around the overflowing waste bins) and we just move a few miles down the road and find a better location.

 

We've been on Aires overnight by ourselves and we've been among 250 other Motorhomes and I can honestly say we've only felt threatened once (and that was not as bad as we initially thought) in many years of overseas Motorhome travel

 

We are booking a crossing to France next week for at least a months stay and we'll use Aires for every nights stopovers.

 

But they won't be on Motorway Aires.

 

:-D :-D :-D :-D

[aandncaravan]

Gerry, you write, "i'm struggling to see (why) you are labouring your positions on Alarms".

 

 

Well, as we said in our replies, our attitude to alarms comes from our experience as electronics repair and fitting specialists. We have repaired several alarms in the distant past before we came to our senses. So we know a little bit more about them than most.

 

Being the type of kit we might install, you will be aware that Alarms are very high profit items for the installers, so something you might expect us to endorse and encourage and fit? But that isn't how we operate.

 

 

If alarms were low cost items, I might be inclined to think the value they added was at least something. But when some cost over £600 all in to install, when all they do is annoy the neighbours, IMO, they give very little that other solutions don't do better.

 

You are right they do have a flashing Red light that might act as a deterrent, but a £5 flashing light behind the mirror (that will show through a Silver screen cover where used) and a few stickers is just as effective.

 

One Motorhome owner who came to us that had a very expensive alarm that kept randomly sounding off, removed the alarm and hung a simple, portable low cost movement alarm from a chain that fitted between the two front cab doors.

Effective, reliable and didn't cost £600.

 

 

I think the marketing over states the value of an alarm by a major margin, so maybe I am just trying to balance that?

 

The type of comments we hear in their favour are remarkably like the phrases from an Alarm Sales brochure?

 

 

I have not said that it is possible, or even desirable, to turn a Motorhome into an impregnable fortress, but if most people had £600 to spend on securing a Motorhome, they could make it much safer and reliable using physical security devices, without the huge cost of a habitation area alarm.

 

 

Forget the Sales Brochure hype, an Alarm is just a noise that is sometimes controlled, but more often than not, isn't.

 

But seeing as you seem to want to know more about the background to our thoughts, my biggest bugbear is the damage they cause to Motorhome electrics/electronics.

They are constantly drawing power that isn't always adequately provided for by the Motorhome builder. As a result we all read of lots of people with flat/destroyed batteries. The various remedies used to either charge up the battery or 'Jump Start' it then often leads to very expensive issues in the Motorhome Power controller/charger.

 

Jump starting some vehicles or asking the on board mains charger to charge up the damaged battery can all leave damage behind that often comes to us to resolve.

 

 

In addition to this, almost all quality Motorhome Power distribution manufacturers provide a power takeoff point for Alarms, Trackers, etc. But never, EVER seen one used by an Alarm installer. Isn't it strange that the Power Distribution/Controller handles everything from the Gas Alarm, Smoke Alarm and the 'low 12v power' alarm, etc. yet a 'Noise' Alarm installer bypasses it and wires it up like it is a Car?

Make up your own conclusion from that.

 

 

The indirect damage caused from Alarm induced flat batteries, apart from the cost of the shortened life of the battery itself, is probably a bigger issue than you think.

 

 

So, IMO, alarms have few advantages but major disadvantages.

But whatever your approach the location you stay at is key.

To repeat what we say above,

... that starting with a safe area to stop should be the first part of your security strategy".

 

 

 

In case you are wondering, we don't fit physical security items either, so these ramblings aren't marketing biased in any way.

Except that by advocating physical security over 'Noise' solutions we are doing ourselves out of Electronics repair work..................

 

 

 

[Muswell]

I went out to buy sandwiches on a busy Camden High Street one Friday lunchtime. I walked past a parked car with two rather upset girls, someone had broken into their car in spite of all the passers-by. I suppose they thought it best not to risk taking on the little group of villains....as the police themselves recommend.

 

On a similar theme, our van was broken into while parked in a busy car park one Sunday in the centre of Verona. Speed and the threat of violence is all you need.

[Eswyn]

Hi

I have used 'camping car aires for a number of years without a problem. Forgive me if I am stating the obvious, but if you have a Fiat Ducato, the simplest way to deter intruders at night is to use the seat belts & a simple 'rape alarm'. Once the belts are passed through the armrest/door pull then into the anchor point it is almost impossible to open the door from outside, fix an alarm to a cheap chain suspended from door to door, job done!

 

[Tracker]

We too never had any faith in alarms, having watched and heard so many go off and seen no reaction at all from people nearby did little to improve our faith in an alarm.

 

I prefer to have visible means of security to deter intruders from even trying rather than an alarm that only sounds after damage is done and there have been a number of good ideas posted all of which cost a lot less and are probably at least as effective as an expensive fitted alarm.

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

I think there are two kinds of theft. Theft of the vehicle, and break-in to steal from the vehicle.

 

It seems to me that theft of the vehicle will be more likely to be the objective of a determined thief, who will be after a return of several thousands, perhaps several tens of thousands, of pounds. A little damage getting in will be an annoyance, but no more than that, as the relative cost of repair will only pin back his return by a small amount. Of the two, he is liable to be the best organised and equipped for the task, and the most difficult to deter. If he suspects or detects the presence of an alarm, he may simply arrive as a breakdown service and "uplift" the van, whether that alarm triggers or not. He may pose as an owner, who has inadvertently triggered his alarm, or whose alarm has malfunctioned on entry.

 

Theft from the vehicle seems to me more likely to be the work of the opportunist, who will merely "leg-it" if an alarm goes off, and is less liable to be organised. If he can get what he wants without actually entering, so much the better. Hence all those warnings about not leaving items on view. He is not interested in the van itself, so damage entering is of no concern. Prising windows open, or breaking cab window glass, gives easy entry to most vans, is quick and relatively soundless. He will break what is necessary to get to what he wants, and then leave. He will spend minimal time inside.

 

The only common factor is that both have to gain entry to achieve their end. Alarms do not make gaining entry more difficult, they merely make it obvious that an alarm has been triggered. Supplementary locks, on the other hand, are visible, and represent another impediment to gaining entry. That means more time, prolonging the process of breaking in, with the thief conspicuous outside the van. That, I think, is their main deterrent value.

 

Alarm if you wish but, IMO, alarming a van without OEM deadlocks, or without good "morticed" supplementary locks (not those lockable external grab bars etc.), is a bit of a misplaced act of faith. In the final analysis, if your van has a high enough value, and someone wants to steal it, the probability is that they will eventually succeed, alarm or no alarm. It's the same with your house: a big flashy external alarm case and flimsy doors and locks gives far less protection than the same alarm system on a house with good quality doors, locks, and locked windows. After all, those houses that have externally visible alarms also advertise that their owners think the contents valuable, which is a) a bit of a challenge and b) an invitation to take them at face value! :-)

[John52]

Tracker - 2018-04-10 7:27 PM

I always slept with my wallet under my pillow

8-) I can't sleep being parted that far away from my wallet. I keep it in a button down shirt pocket close to my heart :-D

[John52]

first thing I do when I get a new van is fir microswitches to the door handles, so the alarm is triggered by pulling on a door handle - BEFORE the thief has forced the door open. The alarm has been triggered a couple of times, so thats probably what stopped my van getting broken in to.

[Barryd999]

I Dont have an alarm or any fancy security, I also tend to be away right over mid summer and in southern Europe you will probably find me in some far flung part of Provence with every window open through the night. What are you going to do in the height of summer? Lock everything up and roast to death? (lol)

 

What I do do though is plan my stops carefully as I'm a bit of a fuss pot where I Stay in the van and prefer village / rural locations.

 

I would say a rural French aire with maybe a few vans on it is as safe as houses generally.

[Wirehaired]

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caravan-Security-Milenco-Sleep-Safe-Window-Door-Alarm-Pack-Of-6/162621389754?hash=item25dcfd7bba:g:eNwAAOSwEupZiGNA Anyone had experience with these?

[laimeduck]

Wirehaired - 2018-04-15 5:28 PMhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caravan-Security-Milenco-Sleep-Safe-Window-Door-Alarm-Pack-Of-6/162621389754?hash=item25dcfd7bba:g:eNwAAOSwEupZiGNA Anyone had experience with these?

Yes I bought a pack a few years ago. We fitted them, then kept forgetting about them & opening the windows - Made a fearful racket!

We now leave them turned off - but they can still be seen from the outside so may act as a deterrent?

[Wirehaired]

Thanks for the info,saw them a time ago but didn't buy any,sounds like the sound they make would do the job.

cheers

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2018-04-13 9:29 PM

 

Tracker - 2018-04-10 7:27 PM

I always slept with my wallet under my pillow

8-) I can't sleep being parted that far away from my wallet. I keep it in a button down shirt pocket close to my heart :-D

 

Blimey Peter 8-) ......

 

You really are a closet Tory (lol) (lol) (lol) ......

 

 

 

 

[aandncaravan]

laimeduck - 2018-04-15 7:04 PM

Wirehaired - 2018-04-15 5:28 PMhttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Caravan-Security-Milenco-Sleep-Safe-Window-Door-Alarm-Pack-Of-6/162621389754?hash=item25dcfd7bba:g:eNwAAOSwEupZiGNA Anyone had experience with these?

Yes I bought a pack a few years ago. We fitted them, then kept forgetting about them & opening the windows - Made a fearful racket!

We now leave them turned off - but they can still be seen from the outside so may act as a deterrent?

Now that is the sort of gizmo we like. £32 for 6 portable, AA battery operated Door/Window Alarms that sound off when the Door or window is opened.Each one has a flashing LED to show that area is protected.Along with really good physical security these should add that extra level of low cost protection, just £5.30 each door/window, without great expense or risking damage to the Motorhome electrics/electronics through poor installation or added power drain, as talked of above.I had an email yesterday from someone who'd read this post that was no longer a fan of a professional fit alarms.He had agreed to spend a lot of money on a 'professional fit' Alarm but was then told that it would run down their Starter battery so he needed to charge the Starter battery every two weeks. However, the alarm company could fit Solar Panels to mitigate the damaging impact of the Alarm. An eye watering Bill followed.In February this year he went to the van in storage to find the battery flat, the alarm obviously inactive as well and no longer performing it's function. On contacting the company they said they had 'forgotten' to mention how Solar doesn't really work in mid Winter and he needed to charge the battery every 2 weeks.He wasn't happy with the Alarm company. Especially as they wouldn't contribute to the Dealers cost of fixing the electronics damage during the vehicle recovery work. He wanted to know from us how to re-wire the alarm to run from the habitation batteries (via the power controller) so that the two habitation batteries could not only provide twice the 'alarm running time' as the single Starter battery, but when they did run flat, at least it didn't stop the vehicle engine being started. We suggested he also investigated whether his Alarm would work with a 'battery protector' in situ. Some Alarms will, some won't, but a battery protector disconnects the alarm to prevent it discharging the battery beyond 50% Depth Of Discharge(DOD) so the engine can still be started and also prevent battery damage.This example costs £3 on eBay : https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/12V-Battery-Low-Voltage-Cut-off-Switch-Controler-Excessive-Protection-Module-IS-/172813508284?_trksid=p2349526.m4383.l4275.c10Note we do not endorse this unit, just an example. If the alarm is going to stop working anyway when the battery runs flat, you might as well invoke some kind of control.

[Wirehaired]

Wow!! sounds like its best to use common sense where you stop and keep things simple,think I may buy a pack of those window alarm,the flashing light and sticker on the window might be enough to deter,friend of mine had his motorhome broken into he has a expensive alarm fitted,don't know the details but it never activated,they didn't get much but they made a mess inside they had forced a small window where the shower room is,its small so probably a kid that got inside.