Guest pelmetman Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-05-04 5:21 PM Im not sure Dave thinking having the UKIPPERS on board is a good thing either. The last thing that party needs is more extreme right wingers, thats bound to turn even more people off them. It has me for one thing and I always voted Tory. Au contraire Barry ;-) ......... Mrs May is now under no illusions what the bulk of us new Tory voters want >:-) ......... Even better those Remoaner Tories also know that if they force another election over Brexit, they're at greater risk of collecting their P45's :D ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 4, 2018 Share Posted May 4, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-04 6:01 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-04 5:21 PM Im not sure Dave thinking having the UKIPPERS on board is a good thing either. The last thing that party needs is more extreme right wingers, thats bound to turn even more people off them. It has me for one thing and I always voted Tory. Au contraire Barry ;-) ......... Mrs May is now under no illusions what the bulk of us new Tory voters want >:-) ......... Even better those Remoaner Tories also know that if they force another election over Brexit, they're at greater risk of collecting their P45's :D ............. I Wouldnt be so sure about that. On the forums we just seem to have entrenched hard line remainers and Brexiteers still debating Brexit but there is no mandate for a hard Brexit, 20% of leave voters now want to stay in the single market it turns out and the idea of a public vote on the final deal is growing in popularity also with a majority now in favour of it. Mrs May will be aware of that also and dont forget she is a remainer as are most of the the cabinet. I would put the odds now at Brexit not happening at all at about 30% but the odds at it being a fudged half in half out no mans land Brexit at about 75%. No crystal ball, just my opinion based on being constantly engaged with what is going on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-05-04 6:27 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-04 6:01 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-04 5:21 PM Im not sure Dave thinking having the UKIPPERS on board is a good thing either. The last thing that party needs is more extreme right wingers, thats bound to turn even more people off them. It has me for one thing and I always voted Tory. Au contraire Barry ;-) ......... Mrs May is now under no illusions what the bulk of us new Tory voters want >:-) ......... Even better those Remoaner Tories also know that if they force another election over Brexit, they're at greater risk of collecting their P45's :D ............. I Wouldnt be so sure about that. On the forums we just seem to have entrenched hard line remainers and Brexiteers still debating Brexit but there is no mandate for a hard Brexit, 20% of leave voters now want to stay in the single market it turns out and the idea of a public vote on the final deal is growing in popularity also with a majority now in favour of it. Mrs May will be aware of that also and dont forget she is a remainer as are most of the the cabinet. I would put the odds now at Brexit not happening at all at about 30% but the odds at it being a fudged half in half out no mans land Brexit at about 75%. No crystal ball, just my opinion based on being constantly engaged with what is going on. You really shouldn't believe everything you read in the Guardian Barry :D .......... They reckon'd Corbyn was going to wipe out the Tories a couple of days ago (lol) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 5, 2018 Share Posted May 5, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-05 8:08 AM Barryd999 - 2018-05-04 6:27 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-04 6:01 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-04 5:21 PM Im not sure Dave thinking having the UKIPPERS on board is a good thing either. The last thing that party needs is more extreme right wingers, thats bound to turn even more people off them. It has me for one thing and I always voted Tory. Au contraire Barry ;-) ......... Mrs May is now under no illusions what the bulk of us new Tory voters want >:-) ......... Even better those Remoaner Tories also know that if they force another election over Brexit, they're at greater risk of collecting their P45's :D ............. I Wouldnt be so sure about that. On the forums we just seem to have entrenched hard line remainers and Brexiteers still debating Brexit but there is no mandate for a hard Brexit, 20% of leave voters now want to stay in the single market it turns out and the idea of a public vote on the final deal is growing in popularity also with a majority now in favour of it. Mrs May will be aware of that also and dont forget she is a remainer as are most of the the cabinet. I would put the odds now at Brexit not happening at all at about 30% but the odds at it being a fudged half in half out no mans land Brexit at about 75%. No crystal ball, just my opinion based on being constantly engaged with what is going on. You really shouldn't believe everything you read in the Guardian Barry :D .......... They reckon'd Corbyn was going to wipe out the Tories a couple of days ago (lol) ........ I Dont need to read it in the Guardian. Just do the sums. There simply isnt enough MP's in favour of a hard brexit to vote one through now. Doesnt matter if the swivel eyes vote her out either, the maths is still the same. The success of the Greens and Lib dems as well as the huge recent survey shows there is no desire within the public for a hard Brexit at all. To me though a soft Brexit is pointless which is why I think any Brexit is a bad idea. A hard Brexit will finish the UK but really its what people voted for as you keep telling us so if we havent got the balls to go for it then we should just remain. It should be one or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-05-04 5:41 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-04 5:20 PM antony1969 - 2018-05-04 4:38 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-04 1:12 PM I'd like a hung parliament where a centre party injects sense into the stupefying left/right dogma by rejecting the failing extremes, in the interests of the country. Not a coalition, just support for whoever has the best ideas on an issue by issue basis. That way parliament can do what it is supposed to do - which is to tell the executive to go forth and execute parliament's will. Won't happen, though, will it? :-( Ye thank Christ that piffle ain't guna happen ... ................... Not a crystal ball, surely, Antony? :-D Nope ... Just the opinion of a man in the know ... You Then I'll be one of the first (except perhaps Dave P - he's always good for a bit of unorthodox punctuation :-)) to have expressed an opinion followed by a question mark? This? If unsure, it means I asked a question. If it'd been an opinion, it wouldn't have a question mark - so that you could accuse me of arrogance for having the audacity to hold an opinion. Just like wot you did above, see? (Question) Bloody hell! It ain't arf 'ard! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Sounds like the Tories rather than Labour are starting to see sense over Brexit (Well the rebel Tories of course :D ) This is how messed up politics is right now. "Rebel Tory MPs believe they now have sufficient support to force Theresa May into effectively keeping the UK in the single market. Conservatives have told The Independent there would be enough of their party’s MPs to lock in full single market access after Brexit, as long as Labour also backs it." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-rebel-tories-single-market-vote-theresa-may-labour-backing-a8336971.html So either Chairman Maybe is secretly playing a long game and deliberately weakened her party at the last election or she is regretting holding it. Who knows? I dunno why Labour dont get off the fence and back it. Get shot of Corbyn and put Keir in charge and while your at it he can take Abbot with him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-04 6:01 PM..........................Au contraire Barry ;-) ......... Mrs May is now under no illusions what the bulk of us new Tory voters want >:-) ......... Well, if she does know, she's strangely silent! :-) As to "bulk", I assume you're doing your sums by adding up how much they weigh, rather than by counting how many of them there are? Since weight doesn't count, I'm afraid you're wrong, as a majority of conservative MP are in favour of remain and, as an alternative to that, actually want an Andrex soft Brexit. FWIW, much the same is true for Labour, definitely so for the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and just so for Ulster MPs (all 8 DUP MPs notwithstanding). Now, what they'll actually do if given the choice of doing the job we all pay them to do, and using their own opinions (guided by the privileged information that MPs can obtain) in the long term economic interests of their country, or just caving in to their party whips, we shall have to wait and see. In the meantime, it might be worth giving some thought to what was meant by "taking back control". I thought "take back control" meant that parliament should have the final say on matters that affect the UK. For that to happen, the MPs have to vote, and for them to vote they have to use their judgement as MPs in the best interests of their constituents (of all parties and none) and their country. Once in parliament they act as individuals and not as constituency delegates. That means they are constitutionally obliged to take account of the opinions of their constituents, but are not bound by them, and must always vote according to their own judgement (which is supposed to mean unconstrained by party influence - where they deem that in conflict with their own judgement). That is what is supposed to happen, so should represent the only constitutionally correct outcome of a parliamentary vote. That is want "taking back control" actually means. However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in ming when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 6, 2018 Share Posted May 6, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 11:39 AM antony1969 - 2018-05-04 5:41 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-04 5:20 PM antony1969 - 2018-05-04 4:38 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-04 1:12 PM I'd like a hung parliament where a centre party injects sense into the stupefying left/right dogma by rejecting the failing extremes, in the interests of the country. Not a coalition, just support for whoever has the best ideas on an issue by issue basis. That way parliament can do what it is supposed to do - which is to tell the executive to go forth and execute parliament's will. Won't happen, though, will it? :-( Ye thank Christ that piffle ain't guna happen ... ................... Not a crystal ball, surely, Antony? :-D Nope ... Just the opinion of a man in the know ... You Then I'll be one of the first (except perhaps Dave P - he's always good for a bit of unorthodox punctuation :-)) to have expressed an opinion followed by a question mark? This? If unsure, it means I asked a question. If it'd been an opinion, it wouldn't have a question mark - so that you could accuse me of arrogance for having the audacity to hold an opinion. Just like wot you did above, see? (Question) Bloody hell! It ain't arf 'ard! :-D You should know by now comprehension of even basic grammar has never been his strong point and nouns, pronouns. verbs all end up in the same pot! Before long you will be met with howls of, 'i never said that', 'prove it', 'still nothing', 'waiting', or 'Zzzzz' when he's on the ropes and unable to contribute anything logical. Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-04 6:01 PM..........................Au contraire Barry ;-) ......... Mrs May is now under no illusions what the bulk of us new Tory voters want >:-) ......... Well, if she does know, she's strangely silent! :-) Unlike the Windrush files she can't hide her intentions on this. Best she can do is huff, puff and bluster her way through it. ;-) As to "bulk", I assume you're doing your sums by adding up how much they weigh, rather than by counting how many of them there are? Since weight doesn't count, I'm afraid you're wrong, as a majority of conservative MP are in favour of remain and, as an alternative to that, actually want an Andrex soft Brexit. FWIW, much the same is true for Labour, definitely so for the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and just so for Ulster MPs (all 8 DUP MPs notwithstanding). Now, what they'll actually do if given the choice of doing the job we all pay them to do, and using their own opinions (guided by the privileged information that MPs can obtain) in the long term economic interests of their country, or just caving in to their party whips, we shall have to wait and see. In the meantime, it might be worth giving some thought to what was meant by "taking back control". I thought "take back control" meant that parliament should have the final say on matters that affect the UK. For that to happen, the MPs have to vote, and for them to vote they have to use their judgement as MPs in the best interests of their constituents (of all parties and none) and their country. Once in parliament they act as individuals and not as constituency delegates. That means they are constitutionally obliged to take account of the opinions of their constituents, but are not bound by them, and must always vote according to their own judgement (which is supposed to mean unconstrained by party influence - where they deem that in conflict with their own judgement). That is what is supposed to happen, so should represent the only constitutionally correct outcome of a parliamentary vote. That is want "taking back control" actually means. However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in mind when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D Err....the 'new' immigration deal is said to be 'very similar' to freedom of movement meaning any European citizens coming into the UK after Brexit would benefit from visa-free travel. They would then be able to gain the right to work in the UK under a new status that would be distinct for people arriving from the EU. That's freedom of movement in all but name! (lol) And how many billions is bonkers Brexit costing us to get back something we already had which they didn't want, and now going to end up paying more for? :-S https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-talks-latest-eu-immigration-free-movement-offer-a8326101.html And Treeza the appeaser had another bad day last week. Britain will be unable to leave the customs union before 2023, ministers have been told, leading to fears that the delay will be exploited by Remainers to thwart Brexit. So more her fantasy 'solutions' have been yet more bluff and bluster. (lol) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/03/britain-will-not-able-leave-customs-union-2023-ministers-told/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 7, 2018 Author Share Posted May 7, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-05-06 2:39 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 11:39 AM antony1969 - 2018-05-04 5:41 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-04 5:20 PM antony1969 - 2018-05-04 4:38 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-04 1:12 PM I'd like a hung parliament where a centre party injects sense into the stupefying left/right dogma by rejecting the failing extremes, in the interests of the country. Not a coalition, just support for whoever has the best ideas on an issue by issue basis. That way parliament can do what it is supposed to do - which is to tell the executive to go forth and execute parliament's will. Won't happen, though, will it? :-( Ye thank Christ that piffle ain't guna happen ... ................... Not a crystal ball, surely, Antony? :-D Nope ... Just the opinion of a man in the know ... You Then I'll be one of the first (except perhaps Dave P - he's always good for a bit of unorthodox punctuation :-)) to have expressed an opinion followed by a question mark? This? If unsure, it means I asked a question. If it'd been an opinion, it wouldn't have a question mark - so that you could accuse me of arrogance for having the audacity to hold an opinion. Just like wot you did above, see? (Question) Bloody hell! It ain't arf 'ard! :-D You should know by now comprehension of even basic grammar has never been his strong point and nouns, pronouns. verbs all end up in the same pot! Before long you will be met with howls of, 'i never said that', 'prove it', 'still nothing', 'waiting', or 'Zzzzz' when he's on the ropes and unable to contribute anything logical. Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-04 6:01 PM..........................Au contraire Barry ;-) ......... Mrs May is now under no illusions what the bulk of us new Tory voters want >:-) ......... Well, if she does know, she's strangely silent! :-) Unlike the Windrush files she can't hide her intentions on this. Best she can do is huff, puff and bluster her way through it. ;-) As to "bulk", I assume you're doing your sums by adding up how much they weigh, rather than by counting how many of them there are? Since weight doesn't count, I'm afraid you're wrong, as a majority of conservative MP are in favour of remain and, as an alternative to that, actually want an Andrex soft Brexit. FWIW, much the same is true for Labour, definitely so for the SNP, Plaid Cymru, and just so for Ulster MPs (all 8 DUP MPs notwithstanding). Now, what they'll actually do if given the choice of doing the job we all pay them to do, and using their own opinions (guided by the privileged information that MPs can obtain) in the long term economic interests of their country, or just caving in to their party whips, we shall have to wait and see. In the meantime, it might be worth giving some thought to what was meant by "taking back control". I thought "take back control" meant that parliament should have the final say on matters that affect the UK. For that to happen, the MPs have to vote, and for them to vote they have to use their judgement as MPs in the best interests of their constituents (of all parties and none) and their country. Once in parliament they act as individuals and not as constituency delegates. That means they are constitutionally obliged to take account of the opinions of their constituents, but are not bound by them, and must always vote according to their own judgement (which is supposed to mean unconstrained by party influence - where they deem that in conflict with their own judgement). That is what is supposed to happen, so should represent the only constitutionally correct outcome of a parliamentary vote. That is want "taking back control" actually means. However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in mind when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D Err....the 'new' immigration deal is said to be 'very similar' to freedom of movement meaning any European citizens coming into the UK after Brexit would benefit from visa-free travel. They would then be able to gain the right to work in the UK under a new status that would be distinct for people arriving from the EU. That's freedom of movement in all but name! (lol) And how many billions is bonkers Brexit costing us to get back something we already had which they didn't want, and now going to end up paying more for? :-S https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-deal-talks-latest-eu-immigration-free-movement-offer-a8326101.html And Treeza the appeaser had another bad day last week. Britain will be unable to leave the customs union before 2023, ministers have been told, leading to fears that the delay will be exploited by Remainers to thwart Brexit. So more her fantasy 'solutions' have been yet more bluff and bluster. (lol) https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2018/05/03/britain-will-not-able-leave-customs-union-2023-ministers-told/?li_source=LI&li_medium=li-recommendation-widget Your right Bullet grammar never my strong point ... Never stopped me having an opinion though or making money or having a loving family ... If you backed up your outrageous name calling now and again I wouldn't have to ask the questions you refuse to answer would I ??? ... Sleep well Princess x Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in ming when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D You maybe right Brian, I suspect neither of us will get what we want ;-) ............ because of the antics of you Remoaners we will leave the EU... but have open borders under a different name *-) .........and a ongoing bill to boot 8-) ........ Fortunately it'll be your Remoaner kids who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ So I reckon in a few years time when the dust is settled, you can repent at leisure at the opportunity you helped squander :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-07 9:25 AM You maybe right Brian, I suspect neither of us will get what we want ;-) ........... That's democracy for you - no one group ever gets everything they want. :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-07 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in ming when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D You maybe right Brian, I suspect neither of us will get what we want ;-) ............ because of the antics of you Remoaners we will leave the EU... but have open borders under a different name *-) .........and a ongoing bill to boot 8-) ........ Fortunately it'll be your Remoaner kids who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ So I reckon in a few years time when the dust is settled, you can repent at leisure at the opportunity you helped squander :D ........... And there it is! We will cop the blame if Brexit is a failure. Thats odd though as we have been told over and over again for two years that we may as well shut up about Brexit as there is nothing we can do about it and we wont change anything so we should just wait and see so how is it our fault if Brexit doesnt turn out how you thought it would? Parliament are the ones that will put the brakes on Brexit because its unworkable. We know that now (Well some of us always knew it). If your looking for someone to blame I Would consider blaming the likes of Farage, UKIP and the Brexit Press who simply fed you a complete pack of lies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 9:48 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in ming when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D You maybe right Brian, I suspect neither of us will get what we want ;-) ............ because of the antics of you Remoaners we will leave the EU... but have open borders under a different name *-) .........and a ongoing bill to boot 8-) ........ Fortunately it'll be your Remoaner kids who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ So I reckon in a few years time when the dust is settled, you can repent at leisure at the opportunity you helped squander :D ........... And there it is! We will cop the blame if Brexit is a failure. Thats odd though as we have been told over and over again for two years that we may as well shut up about Brexit as there is nothing we can do about it and we wont change anything so we should just wait and see so how is it our fault if Brexit doesnt turn out how you thought it would? Parliament are the ones that will put the brakes on Brexit because its unworkable. We know that now (Well some of us always knew it). If your looking for someone to blame I Would consider blaming the likes of Farage, UKIP and the Brexit Press who simply fed you a complete pack of lies. Nope........If we end up with a duff deal it will be the fault of you Remoaners >:-) ........... Besides what are you moaning about if we leave and you get to keep paying in? ;-) ......... That's called a win win init? (lol) ....... Or is it Karma? :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-07 10:31 AM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 9:48 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in ming when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D You maybe right Brian, I suspect neither of us will get what we want ;-) ............ because of the antics of you Remoaners we will leave the EU... but have open borders under a different name *-) .........and a ongoing bill to boot 8-) ........ Fortunately it'll be your Remoaner kids who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ So I reckon in a few years time when the dust is settled, you can repent at leisure at the opportunity you helped squander :D ........... And there it is! We will cop the blame if Brexit is a failure. Thats odd though as we have been told over and over again for two years that we may as well shut up about Brexit as there is nothing we can do about it and we wont change anything so we should just wait and see so how is it our fault if Brexit doesnt turn out how you thought it would? Parliament are the ones that will put the brakes on Brexit because its unworkable. We know that now (Well some of us always knew it). If your looking for someone to blame I Would consider blaming the likes of Farage, UKIP and the Brexit Press who simply fed you a complete pack of lies. Nope........If we end up with a duff deal it will be the fault of you Remoaners >:-) ........... Besides what are you moaning about if we leave and you get to keep paying in? ;-) ......... That's called a win win init? (lol) ....... Or is it Karma? :D ......... I am assuming this is a wind up of course but will play along. How will it be our fault? We told you before the Referendum that it was unworkable and the EU actually didnt need us more than we need them and they would not cave in but you weren't having any of that. Im no more satisfied with leaving in name only or keeping bits and paying for the privilege than you will be. I Want to go one step further than that. If we cannot leave fully and properly like you all thought you were voting out to do then we shouldnt be leaving at all. Whats the point? Thats why I am supporting and campaigning for a vote on the final deal with a remain option, call it a second referendum if you like Im not bothered because if the options are a half in half out job with no vote at the table or staying in why would anyone vote for the former? Only you and a few other hard Brexiteers want to pull the plug so your in a minority which is why Brexit needs binning. Its just not workable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 10:56 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 10:31 AM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 9:48 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in ming when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D You maybe right Brian, I suspect neither of us will get what we want ;-) ............ because of the antics of you Remoaners we will leave the EU... but have open borders under a different name *-) .........and a ongoing bill to boot 8-) ........ Fortunately it'll be your Remoaner kids who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ So I reckon in a few years time when the dust is settled, you can repent at leisure at the opportunity you helped squander :D ........... And there it is! We will cop the blame if Brexit is a failure. Thats odd though as we have been told over and over again for two years that we may as well shut up about Brexit as there is nothing we can do about it and we wont change anything so we should just wait and see so how is it our fault if Brexit doesnt turn out how you thought it would? Parliament are the ones that will put the brakes on Brexit because its unworkable. We know that now (Well some of us always knew it). If your looking for someone to blame I Would consider blaming the likes of Farage, UKIP and the Brexit Press who simply fed you a complete pack of lies. Nope........If we end up with a duff deal it will be the fault of you Remoaners >:-) ........... Besides what are you moaning about if we leave and you get to keep paying in? ;-) ......... That's called a win win init? (lol) ....... Or is it Karma? :D ......... I am assuming this is a wind up of course but will play along. How will it be our fault? We told you before the Referendum that it was unworkable and the EU actually didnt need us more than we need them and they would not cave in but you weren't having any of that. Im no more satisfied with leaving in name only or keeping bits and paying for the privilege than you will be. I Want to go one step further than that. If we cannot leave fully and properly like you all thought you were voting out to do then we shouldnt be leaving at all. Whats the point? Thats why I am supporting and campaigning for a vote on the final deal with a remain option, call it a second referendum if you like Im not bothered because if the options are a half in half out job with no vote at the table or staying in why would anyone vote for the former? Only you and a few other hard Brexiteers want to pull the plug so your in a minority which is why Brexit needs binning. Its just not workable. How is it a wind up? ;-) ...........Is the likely final scenario not as I stated? (?) ......... As I said we both win.........I get to leave the EU .......and you get to pay the EU :D ........ Suits me B-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-07 11:51 AM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 10:56 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 10:31 AM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 9:48 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-06 12:22 PM However, I have a funny feeling that it may not quite be what Brexiters had in ming when they said "take back control", or uttered that appallingly wet bleat: "I want my country back". :-D You maybe right Brian, I suspect neither of us will get what we want ;-) ............ because of the antics of you Remoaners we will leave the EU... but have open borders under a different name *-) .........and a ongoing bill to boot 8-) ........ Fortunately it'll be your Remoaner kids who will be picking up the tab >:-) ........ So I reckon in a few years time when the dust is settled, you can repent at leisure at the opportunity you helped squander :D ........... And there it is! We will cop the blame if Brexit is a failure. Thats odd though as we have been told over and over again for two years that we may as well shut up about Brexit as there is nothing we can do about it and we wont change anything so we should just wait and see so how is it our fault if Brexit doesnt turn out how you thought it would? Parliament are the ones that will put the brakes on Brexit because its unworkable. We know that now (Well some of us always knew it). If your looking for someone to blame I Would consider blaming the likes of Farage, UKIP and the Brexit Press who simply fed you a complete pack of lies. Nope........If we end up with a duff deal it will be the fault of you Remoaners >:-) ........... Besides what are you moaning about if we leave and you get to keep paying in? ;-) ......... That's called a win win init? (lol) ....... Or is it Karma? :D ......... I am assuming this is a wind up of course but will play along. How will it be our fault? We told you before the Referendum that it was unworkable and the EU actually didnt need us more than we need them and they would not cave in but you weren't having any of that. Im no more satisfied with leaving in name only or keeping bits and paying for the privilege than you will be. I Want to go one step further than that. If we cannot leave fully and properly like you all thought you were voting out to do then we shouldnt be leaving at all. Whats the point? Thats why I am supporting and campaigning for a vote on the final deal with a remain option, call it a second referendum if you like Im not bothered because if the options are a half in half out job with no vote at the table or staying in why would anyone vote for the former? Only you and a few other hard Brexiteers want to pull the plug so your in a minority which is why Brexit needs binning. Its just not workable. How is it a wind up? ;-) ...........Is the likely final scenario not as I stated? (?) ......... As I said we both win.........I get to leave the EU .......and you get to pay the EU :D ........ Suits me B-) ......... Well we will all get to pay the EU but what for? Single Market, Customs Union? Free Trade deal? EEA? The Swivel chair to take home at weekends and Junkers wifes recipe for ratatouille? This is what we need to know isnt it? You cant tell me you will be seriously happy if we end up accepting all that and leaving in name only. Its possible which is why it would be better if the deal was returned to the public because we voted (So the Brexiteers tell us) on a simple in out option. The trouble is the end game is just not as simple as in out or at least thats what it seems like. I dont trust any of them Labour or the Tories to not cock it up. All of them are just trying to say whatever is best for them rather than what is best for the country as a whole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 1:11 PM Well we will all get to pay the EU but what for? Single Market, Customs Union? Free Trade deal? EEA? The Swivel chair to take home at weekends and Junkers wifes recipe for ratatouille? This is what we need to know isnt it? You cant tell me you will be seriously happy if we end up accepting all that and leaving in name only. Its possible which is why it would be better if the deal was returned to the public because we voted (So the Brexiteers tell us) on a simple in out option. The trouble is the end game is just not as simple as in out or at least thats what it seems like. I dont trust any of them Labour or the Tories to not cock it up. All of them are just trying to say whatever is best for them rather than what is best for the country as a whole. We all have to make compromises Barry ;-) .......... Us Brexiteers get to leave........You Remoaners get to pay B-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-07 1:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 1:11 PM Well we will all get to pay the EU but what for? Single Market, Customs Union? Free Trade deal? EEA? The Swivel chair to take home at weekends and Junkers wifes recipe for ratatouille? This is what we need to know isnt it? You cant tell me you will be seriously happy if we end up accepting all that and leaving in name only. Its possible which is why it would be better if the deal was returned to the public because we voted (So the Brexiteers tell us) on a simple in out option. The trouble is the end game is just not as simple as in out or at least thats what it seems like. I dont trust any of them Labour or the Tories to not cock it up. All of them are just trying to say whatever is best for them rather than what is best for the country as a whole. We all have to make compromises Barry ;-) .......... Us Brexiteers get to leave........You Remoaners get to pay B-) ....... Now this has to be a wind-up! If the scenario Barry has sketched is what happens: a) we won't have left the EU, and b) everyone, leavers and remainers alike, will all have to pay. It might be made to work, a la Norway, but it would be far worse that remaining full members. What would we, actually, have gained, and at what cost compared to the present cost? And yet, you, the chap who endlessly complained at the cost of membership (when we had a say on everything that happened) would be "happy" with an outcome when the cost was dictated along with all the compliance terms for continuing involvement in the single market, free trade area, EEA, etc, and we got no say. What on earth could be the advantage to anyone of that? If that is what Brexit really means, you Brexiters could have saved us all a huge amount of wasted time and effort by just saying so before the referendum, when we could all have had a good laugh and got on with life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 A former Conservative cabinet minister has said Brexiteers are acting like "toddlers" who "stamp their feet" (lol) "I think many of them [Tory Eurosceptics] are like toddlers who want their favourite toy, and stamp their feet with frustration. "Based on conversations shared with long-term Brexiteers outside Parliament over recent months, I think the reason for this is that they believe their Brexit will be taken away from them." https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-latest-tory-eu-uk-theresa-may-customs-nicky-morgan-a8339806.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 7, 2018 Share Posted May 7, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-05-07 2:06 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 1:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 1:11 PM Well we will all get to pay the EU but what for? Single Market, Customs Union? Free Trade deal? EEA? The Swivel chair to take home at weekends and Junkers wifes recipe for ratatouille? This is what we need to know isnt it? You cant tell me you will be seriously happy if we end up accepting all that and leaving in name only. Its possible which is why it would be better if the deal was returned to the public because we voted (So the Brexiteers tell us) on a simple in out option. The trouble is the end game is just not as simple as in out or at least thats what it seems like. I dont trust any of them Labour or the Tories to not cock it up. All of them are just trying to say whatever is best for them rather than what is best for the country as a whole. We all have to make compromises Barry ;-) .......... Us Brexiteers get to leave........You Remoaners get to pay B-) ....... Now this has to be a wind-up! If the scenario Barry has sketched is what happens: a) we won't have left the EU, and b) everyone, leavers and remainers alike, will all have to pay. It might be made to work, a la Norway, but it would be far worse that remaining full members. What would we, actually, have gained, and at what cost compared to the present cost? And yet, you, the chap who endlessly complained at the cost of membership (when we had a say on everything that happened) would be "happy" with an outcome when the cost was dictated along with all the compliance terms for continuing involvement in the single market, free trade area, EEA, etc, and we got no say. What on earth could be the advantage to anyone of that? If that is what Brexit really means, you Brexiters could have saved us all a huge amount of wasted time and effort by just saying so before the referendum, when we could all have had a good laugh and got on with life. As I said we all have to compromise ;-) ...... So what are you moaning about? :-S .... Don't you like democracy Brian? 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-07 6:28 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-07 2:06 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 1:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 1:11 PM Well we will all get to pay the EU but what for? Single Market, Customs Union? Free Trade deal? EEA? The Swivel chair to take home at weekends and Junkers wifes recipe for ratatouille? This is what we need to know isnt it? You cant tell me you will be seriously happy if we end up accepting all that and leaving in name only. Its possible which is why it would be better if the deal was returned to the public because we voted (So the Brexiteers tell us) on a simple in out option. The trouble is the end game is just not as simple as in out or at least thats what it seems like. I dont trust any of them Labour or the Tories to not cock it up. All of them are just trying to say whatever is best for them rather than what is best for the country as a whole. We all have to make compromises Barry ;-) .......... Us Brexiteers get to leave........You Remoaners get to pay B-) ....... Now this has to be a wind-up! If the scenario Barry has sketched is what happens: a) we won't have left the EU, and b) everyone, leavers and remainers alike, will all have to pay. It might be made to work, a la Norway, but it would be far worse that remaining full members. What would we, actually, have gained, and at what cost compared to the present cost? (Question 1) And yet, you, the chap who endlessly complained at the cost of membership (when we had a say on everything that happened) would be "happy" with an outcome when the cost was dictated along with all the compliance terms for continuing involvement in the single market, free trade area, EEA, etc, and we got no say. What on earth could be the advantage to anyone of that? (Question 2) If that is what Brexit really means, you Brexiters could have saved us all a huge amount of wasted time and effort by just saying so before the referendum, when we could all have had a good laugh and got on with life. 1 As I said we all have to compromise ;-) ...... 2 So what are you moaning about? :-S .... 3 Don't you like democracy Brian? 8-) .......... 1 Glad you've at last realised that, Dave. :-) 2 People who, when asked a direct question answer with a (irrelevant) question, when what they mean is "I don't know"! 3 I'm with Aristotle and Churchill on democracy. The former said it raised opinion above knowledge, the latter that it was a bad system, but remained better than all other systems. Besides, my arguments are just democracy working, so how could I dislike it? So, back to my two questions above (I've set them in bold, and numbered them, to help). As I've answered your, what are your answers to mine? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-05-07 2:06 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 1:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 1:11 PM Well we will all get to pay the EU but what for? Single Market, Customs Union? Free Trade deal? EEA? The Swivel chair to take home at weekends and Junkers wifes recipe for ratatouille? This is what we need to know isnt it? You cant tell me you will be seriously happy if we end up accepting all that and leaving in name only. Its possible which is why it would be better if the deal was returned to the public because we voted (So the Brexiteers tell us) on a simple in out option. The trouble is the end game is just not as simple as in out or at least thats what it seems like. I dont trust any of them Labour or the Tories to not cock it up. All of them are just trying to say whatever is best for them rather than what is best for the country as a whole. We all have to make compromises Barry ;-) .......... Us Brexiteers get to leave........You Remoaners get to pay B-) ....... Now this has to be a wind-up! If the scenario Barry has sketched is what happens: a) we won't have left the EU, and b) everyone, leavers and remainers alike, will all have to pay. It might be made to work, a la Norway, but it would be far worse that remaining full members. What would we, actually, have gained, and at what cost compared to the present cost? And yet, you, the chap who endlessly complained at the cost of membership (when we had a say on everything that happened) would be "happy" with an outcome when the cost was dictated along with all the compliance terms for continuing involvement in the single market, free trade area, EEA, etc, and we got no say. What on earth could be the advantage to anyone of that? If that is what Brexit really means, you Brexiters could have saved us all a huge amount of wasted time and effort by just saying so before the referendum, when we could all have had a good laugh and got on with life. Its just the victory that matters to a lot of Brexiteers Brian. Its like an emotional game of football. All we need to do is just have a quiet word with Barnier and say "Just pretend we have left on 29 March, we will have a load of street parties or something, run a few Independence day type headlines, kick a few funny foreigners and on the 30th March we will just go back to normal, we wont actually tell them we havent really left, nobody will notice". (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-05-08 11:12 AM Its just the victory that matters to a lot of Brexiteers Brian. Its like an emotional game of football. All we need to do is just have a quiet word with Barnier and say "Just pretend we have left on 29 March, we will have a load of street parties or something, run a few Independence day type headlines, kick a few funny foreigners and on the 30th March we will just go back to normal, we wont actually tell them we havent really left, nobody will notice". (lol) We can't do that. This is a democratic country and the will of the people must be respected. So we must leave on the date specified- and have street parties ( outside London) The following day we rejoin without telling anyone. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 8, 2018 Share Posted May 8, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-05-08 7:38 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 6:28 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-05-07 2:06 PM pelmetman - 2018-05-07 1:18 PM Barryd999 - 2018-05-07 1:11 PM Well we will all get to pay the EU but what for? Single Market, Customs Union? Free Trade deal? EEA? The Swivel chair to take home at weekends and Junkers wifes recipe for ratatouille? This is what we need to know isnt it? You cant tell me you will be seriously happy if we end up accepting all that and leaving in name only. Its possible which is why it would be better if the deal was returned to the public because we voted (So the Brexiteers tell us) on a simple in out option. The trouble is the end game is just not as simple as in out or at least thats what it seems like. I dont trust any of them Labour or the Tories to not cock it up. All of them are just trying to say whatever is best for them rather than what is best for the country as a whole. We all have to make compromises Barry ;-) .......... Us Brexiteers get to leave........You Remoaners get to pay B-) ....... Now this has to be a wind-up! If the scenario Barry has sketched is what happens: a) we won't have left the EU, and b) everyone, leavers and remainers alike, will all have to pay. It might be made to work, a la Norway, but it would be far worse that remaining full members. What would we, actually, have gained, and at what cost compared to the present cost? (Question 1) And yet, you, the chap who endlessly complained at the cost of membership (when we had a say on everything that happened) would be "happy" with an outcome when the cost was dictated along with all the compliance terms for continuing involvement in the single market, free trade area, EEA, etc, and we got no say. What on earth could be the advantage to anyone of that? (Question 2) If that is what Brexit really means, you Brexiters could have saved us all a huge amount of wasted time and effort by just saying so before the referendum, when we could all have had a good laugh and got on with life. 1 As I said we all have to compromise ;-) ...... 2 So what are you moaning about? :-S .... 3 Don't you like democracy Brian? 8-) .......... 1 Glad you've at last realised that, Dave. :-) 2 People who, when asked a direct question answer with a (irrelevant) question, when what they mean is "I don't know"! 3 I'm with Aristotle and Churchill on democracy. The former said it raised opinion above knowledge, the latter that it was a bad system, but remained better than all other systems. Besides, my arguments are just democracy working, so how could I dislike it? So, back to my two questions above (I've set them in bold, and numbered them, to help). As I've answered your, what are your answers to mine? 1.Yep I'm quite happy to compromise so long as we leave the EU........How much we have to keep paying will be down to you Remoaners ;-) .........Not that'll effect me I'm retired :D ........ 2. Yet I do know we will not get as good as deal as we would of done, had you Remoaners not spent so much time stabbing the UK in the back *-) ........ 3. Your superiority complex is showing again Brian ;-) .......As you're clearly one of those folk who only like democratic decisions that go your way >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted May 8, 2018 Author Share Posted May 8, 2018 Which will come first the death of the sun in 10 billion years time or Remoaners stopping whinging Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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