Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandy - 2018-05-17 9:12 AM How many of these supposed gassing victims report the flu like symptoms referred to in the report? I suspect hangover like symptoms might be more common. With the volume of the interior of even a modest sized motorhome being in the region of 1000 cubic feet, how many cans of Easy Start would be needed to create sufficient concentration to anaesthetize the occupants? The investment in Easy Start would probably be more than the haul. So everyone who claims to be gassed has a drink problem? ;-) ........... Your van must be a whopper if you've got a 1000 cubic feet of space 8-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 pepe63 - 2018-05-17 10:11 AM Although we are all guilty of throwing them crumbs at some stage or other, it is also worth remembering- Do not feed the trolls ;-) (Just look what constantly feeding them has done to Troll-box(sorry "Chatterbox") *-) ) One persons Troll is another persons open mind Pepe ;-) ......... At least you should be safe seeing as you don't go across the ditch :D ........ Ooops perhaps not 8-) ........... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5540007/Lorry-driver-gassed-cab-thieves-steal-70k-worth-goods.html "According to hauliers and drivers, gas attacks are becoming more and more common with crooks are targeting overnight rest stops used by long-distance drivers up and down the country for the crime. According to reports, the thieves wait until the driver is asleep before spraying commonly available motoring products into the cab through vents or slightly open windows. Police say this can act like an anaesthetic and throw the sleeping driver into a much deeper slumber, incapacitating him for several hours. When the driver does eventually wake up he will feel groggy and suffer a severe headache but have little or no recollection of the attack. Drivers have fallen victim to attacks in South Yorkshire, Northampton and the Midlands. Mr Singleton said he will meet with the Road Haulage Association (RHA) on Monday. A spokesperson from RHA said there had been a number of similar incidents and added: 'The RHA urges hauliers to remain vigilant.' West Midlands Police are investigating and urging witnesses to call 101, quoting 20WS/58590T/18." But of course the Skeptics on here all know it cant happen so perhaps you better give the West Midlands plod a call Pepe? >:-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-17 10:36 AM aandy - 2018-05-17 9:12 AM How many of these supposed gassing victims report the flu like symptoms referred to in the report? I suspect hangover like symptoms might be more common. With the volume of the interior of even a modest sized motorhome being in the region of 1000 cubic feet, how many cans of Easy Start would be needed to create sufficient concentration to anaesthetize the occupants? The investment in Easy Start would probably be more than the haul. So everyone who claims to be gassed has a drink problem? ;-) ........... Your van must be a whopper if you've got a 1000 cubic feet of space 8-) ............ You don't need to have a 'drink problem' to have a hangover, but people do often drink more when on holiday and tend to sleep more heavily when they've had a few. I've not read many reports of supposed gassings, but none of those I have seen reported the symptoms cited in the report you referenced earlier. 1000 cubic feet is probably at the lower end. 20x7x6.5=910. In view of the advice from the RCA about ether's anaesthetic properties, I'd guess it would take an awful lot of Easy Start to bring that volume up to the required concentration. The idea that they use a car exhaust is an absolute non starter. As someone pointed out earlier, the smell lingers for ages. Just yesterday I spent the afternoon fiddling with carburation on a car, and despite having the garage door open my overalls still smell of exhaust fumes. I've yet to see any persuasive argument or evidence that such attacks occur, and the fact that reports generally appear in the Mail does nothing for their credibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmorris Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandy - 2018-05-17 12:13 PM I've yet to see any persuasive argument or evidence that such attacks occur, and the fact that reports generally appear in the Mail does nothing for their credibility. Whilst the Mail is undoubtedly one of the worst offenders for less than accurate reporting, my experience is that they are by no means alone, the local newspapers being some of the worst offenders. Just remember, the press/media are ultimately interested in 'stories', preferably the juicier or more dramatic the better. Why let the evidence (or lack of it) get in the way of a good story? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandy - 2018-05-17 12:13 PM I've yet to see any persuasive argument or evidence that such attacks occur, and the fact that reports generally appear in the Mail does nothing for their credibility. West Midlands Police are investigating and urging witnesses to call 101, quoting 20WS/58590T/18." I guess the police are wasting their time then? ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandy - 2018-05-17 12:13 PM 1000 cubic feet is probably at the lower end. 20x7x6.5=910. In view of the advice from the RCA about ether's anaesthetic properties, I'd guess it would take an awful lot of Easy Start to bring that volume up to the required concentration. . http://www.dontpanicyoureonlymoving.com/moving-into-storage/calculating-cubic-values-of-furniture Blimey you can get 10 Grand pianos in your camper? 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 You have only got to do a couple of slices of toast under the grill to raise the CO inside a motorhome. Three people sleeping in an enclosed space will also raise the CO2 levels to far higher than normal, especially on a cold night where the windows might be kept closed. While raised CO2 levels are not a major issue, the lower levels of oxygen could make someone more sleepy than usual. So a bit of CO from cooking a big meal, which will show on a blood test, close the windows to contain the CO2 from breathing then add in a glass of wine and the three things together might even give an insomniac a sound nights sleep. As for adding gas into a motorhome through a vent, like the vents in the cab for heating/aircon just don't work for me. The inlet tracts are quite long and the air in the tracts quite static. The amount of CO that flows into the van through a rubber pipe held just against the outside of the vent below the wipers would take forever to saturate the vehicle habitation area. You would need a hefty pumped system to get any quantities into those vents. One of those air compressors used for breaking up the road surface might do it? Wait a minute, if you routed the exhaust gas into the compressor inlet and then held it against the front air vents for about 2 hours it might work. Then open all the windows and wait for 30 minutes so it's safe to enter. Rob the occupants. Roll up the hose. Pack up the compressor. Hook it back onto the van then scarper. No one will hear or see anything suspicious at all. Brilliant I have cracked it, I now know how they do it!! Just need to work out how they get the CO to air ratio right, calculating the flow rate in cubic metres. Maybe by creating a spreadsheet that takes the height, length and width of the motorhome to calculate it's cubic capacity? They probably get rid of the awful after smell by hanging up a Fuffy Dice air freshener before they leave. Ah, yes close all the windows. Maybe they Sign write the van with 'Mike's Custom Valet Service', those businesses always make a terrible din when they are cleaning a car. If disturbed, they can say, "I am just doing an ultra clean Motorhome Valet". No one will suspect a thing. If you pull onto a stop and there is a 'Valet Service' van towing a 3 ton road surface compressor, then don't stop, continue your journey till the next rest area. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 You've missed your vocation Allen, you could have been a comedy writer for TV as what you have composed above has created more laughs and smiles than they ever do with modern alleged comedy! If you pull onto a stop and there is a 'Valet Service' van towing a 3 ton road surface compressor, then don't stop continue your journey till the next rest area. Sound advice Allen, the next compressor might be quieter so you can sleep through it all better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Tracker, Sorry? Why's that funny? This is serious stuff. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandy - 2018-05-17 12:13 PM You don't need to have a 'drink problem' to have a hangover, but people do often drink more when on holiday and tend to sleep more heavily when they've had a few. I've not read many reports of supposed gassings, but none of those I have seen reported the symptoms cited in the report you referenced earlier. The Chadwicks were a family of 6 ;-) ............ What are the chances of a criminal finding a van where all 6 were drunk enough to sleep through someone rifling through their van? :-| ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-05-17 1:06 PM So a bit of CO from cooking a big meal, which will show on a blood test, close the windows to contain the CO2 from breathing then add in a glass of wine and the three things together might even give an insomniac a sound nights sleep. Dam those criminals are lucky to happen across a camper where everyone is zonked out on toast fumes and a glass of vino ;-) ........... If I had that kinda luck I wouldn't be out robbing.......I'd be playing the lottery :D ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-05-17 1:14 PM Tracker, Sorry? Why's that funny? This is serious stuff. :-D My sincere apologies Allan, I hadn't realised that you had a humour by pass and I do hope that it was not painful on your wallet! My own humour buds, although severely warped by the passge of time and events, still seem to function after a fashion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I've read of these attacks before but the method doesn't seem particularly efficient. Van m/h attacks tend to be fast....a couple of minutes would be slow so why waste time faffing around trying to gas occupants before entering? It doesn't stack up. A couple of friends of mine were subject to quite a nasty attack on an French Aire in the middle of the night when both were asleep. His wife is a light sleeper and she woke to find one of the two youth standing by their bed, screamed like hell which finally woke her husband who like me is a heavy sleeper, and he chased the lads out.....by which time the alarm had gone off with horn and lights blazing away. They called the police who told them there had been two other attacks in that area on m/homes. Unfortunately what it means is when parking up, particularly on a car park or 'wild camping', no matter how warm the weather may be, you need make sure all windows and roof lights are closed and locked. Fuel theft is also another though more common with HGV's than m/h's. A Dutch trucker told me how organised they are. Pull up alongside truck fuel tank in a panel van....drill through the cap lock which takes seconds, then feed a pipe in and use an electric pump to suck however much fuel they can get away with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-17 12:57 PM aandy - 2018-05-17 12:13 PM 1000 cubic feet is probably at the lower end. 20x7x6.5=910. In view of the advice from the RCA about ether's anaesthetic properties, I'd guess it would take an awful lot of Easy Start to bring that volume up to the required concentration. . http://www.dontpanicyoureonlymoving.com/moving-into-storage/calculating-cubic-values-of-furniture Blimey you can get 10 Grand pianos in your camper? 8-) .......... What is it that you are disputing? That 20'x7'x6.5' is not an excessive size for the interior of a motorhome, or that those dimensions equate to a volume of 910 cubic feet? As to the police wasting their time, in this instance I'm sure they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted May 17, 2018 Author Share Posted May 17, 2018 Here is something to think about, quite a number of years ago, we were oversleeping at the Catalan village,just north of Barcelona, of the main motorway. I was disturbed by a light which appeared in the cab area, I immediately shouted out, switched on the alarm system with lights /siren all going full belt. I looked around inside the van and everything looked O.K. I looked across the open park area to see a motorway service van start up,and speed away very fast. In the morning on checking everything, I discovered my wallet on the ground in front of our van, the contents still contained my credit cards, but the small amount of cash,aprox 20 euros was gone. I conclude that motorway service vans can be driven by thieves, and would be very wary if seeing one parked up for no apparent reason. We were parked in a row of lorry drivers all overnighting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 aandy - 2018-05-17 2:50 PM What is it that you are disputing? That 20'x7'x6.5' is not an excessive size for the interior of a motorhome, or that those dimensions equate to a volume of 910 cubic feet? As to the police wasting their time, in this instance I'm sure they are. So you have a box?.......with nothing in it? 8-) ........... Personally I prefer a few essentials in my camper like furniture, toilet compartment, beds etc :D ....... I'm sure the police and victims will be relieved to know that according to the O&L skeptics they're wasting their time :-| ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 The fittings will take up very little of the volume. Even if they account for 20% of the total, it would still take an awful lot of easy start to saturate 800 cubic feet. However, I now see the error of my ways and accept that people are being gassed all the time; that Europe is rife with gangs carrying van loads of easy start, driving vehicles with engines that run silently and produce odourless carbon dioxide; that the RCA know nothing about the properties of ether or the complexities of anaesthetising people from a distance without any medical supervision or monitoring, yet never once harming anyone; and that the paper that you cited was mistaken in its reporting of the symptoms of carbon monoxide poisoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Easy start is amazing stuff - guaranteed to get even the biggest sleepyhead firing on all cylinders even if it does make you knock a bit, well a lot actually, when you first fire up!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaven Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 A mixture of air and ether is highly explosive. You’d only need a tiny spark from your van electrics to blow your roof off. I once had the bright idea of asking a pharmacist mate of mine for a small quantity in a bottle to soak on cotton wool in order to remove a tick from our cat. He was happy to oblige, and presented it to me as a small package in a paper bag. As the day progressed a powerful smell of ether seemed to be following me around everywhere I went. Turned out he’d put it in a small plastic pill bottle which promptly melted leaving a soggy mess. The paper bag contained the mess so mercifully my suit wasn’t ruined. The smell prevailed for some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 blaven - 2018-05-17 5:33 PM A mixture of air and ether is highly explosive. You’d only need a tiny spark from your van electrics to blow your roof off. At least your worries aout being robbed as well as suitable punishment for the gassers would be swifttly, if a little loudly solved! But there are no reports of that having happened ether, sorry either so I guess some other non volatile gas must be used after all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laimeduck Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 blaven - 2018-05-17 5:33 PMA mixture of air and ether is highly explosive. You’d only need a tiny spark from your van electrics to blow your roof off.I once had the bright idea of asking a pharmacist mate of mine for a small quantity in a bottle to soak on cotton wool in order to remove a tick from our cat. He was happy to oblige, and presented it to me as a small package in a paper bag. As the day progressed a powerful smell of ether seemed to be following me around everywhere I went. Turned out he’d put it in a small plastic pill bottle which promptly melted leaving a soggy mess. The paper bag contained the mess so mercifully my suit wasn’t ruined. The smell prevailed for some time. Crikey! - If your mate was a pharmacist and didn't know that ether dissolves plastic then I wouldn't want any drugs from him! I imagine the cat was very grateful though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 blaven - 2018-05-17 5:33 PM A mixture of air and ether is highly explosive. I guess that's why they use it to start engines ;-) ........... But the cab of a lorry is a bit bigger than a cylinder head :D ........... Perhaps its something else they use?......... https://www.rha.uk.net/news/press-releases/2018-03-march/rha-concerned-about-reports-thieves-%E2%80%98gassing%E2%80%99-drivers Unless all these lorry drivers are getting p*ssed every time they park up 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 plwsm2000 - 2018-05-17 9:13 AM Most domestic CO alarms will trigger on low levels of CO for long periods OR at high levels in short duration. The low level trigger can be about 50ppm for several hours. 50 ppm is not desirable but not a big problem unless you are continously exposed to it. I would guess that your alarm triggered due to the long term exposure at low levels while in the garage, I have a Kidde ;-) ......... An alarm's response time will vary depending on the level of carbon monoxide in the air. For example, an alarm will sound after three and a half hours of continuous exposure at a level of 50 PPM, yet will sound after eight minutes of continuous exposure at a level of 400 PPM.27 Oct 2011 Carbon monoxide Levels that Sound the Alarm | Kidde www.kidde.com/.../what_are_the_carbon_monoxide_levels_that_will_sound_the_alarm... As my mechanic said he removed the batteries because it "kept" going off, I'm assuming it reached the 400 PPM in very short order :-| ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 I have got a new theory that fits all the examples we have heard of - they were abducted by Aliens!! While the Aliens were examining the specimens, another beamed down to rob the van. No, don't laugh, it happened to me. I was in the pub on a stag night and had drunk quite a lot, and then it all went black. I couldn't remember a thing when I woke up. I don't know what they used to drug me, but it must have been horrible stuff because when I awoke my head was pounding, I had a terrible thirst, my mouth felt like the inside of a Bears cave and loud noises were really upsetting. But here is the really scary part - they knew where I lived because I woke up under a hedge three quarters of the way between the pub and my house. Obviously didn't beam me all the way back to my house as they might have been seen. When I told my wife the next day that I had been abducted by Aliens and they had put me under some nasty anaesthetic to examine me and read my mind, she said, that she was surprised they didn't take the opportunity to remove my brain for a transplant as it's never been used. I didn't understand what she meant, but she also said, "You are banned from going to the pub ever again". Isn't that sweet? She is obviously worried about me being abducted again. But anyway, doesn't abduction by Aliens fit the circumstance of these people being robbed without knowing what happened? I know there will sceptics out there but I have spoken to other people abducted by Aliens. One minute they were in the pub and next minute they wake up in their bed. They have no memory of anything that happened, don't even know how they got home. They had the same thumping head I had, so it is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 18, 2018 Share Posted May 18, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-05-18 12:38 PM But anyway, doesn't abduction by Aliens fit the circumstance of these people being robbed without knowing what happened? Alien farts!!....... that's the unknown gas 8-) ........... Someone give the West Midlands Fuzz a ring, OAL has solved their crime :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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