chas Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Just read a Grandfather and 2 Grandsons gased on lorry stop over on returning home from Monoco, they seem genuine people to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 It's impossible according to the Skeptics :D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelmorris Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I'm one of the sceptics. See this article from the Royal College of Anaesthetists https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles Many people have read about these attacks, heard about them and some have met someone, who met someone else, who claims they were the victim of a gas attack. There is lots of anecdotal evidence, but to date, seemingly no hard facts. I suspect a more likely explanation is that many people are just much deeper sleepers than they think they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Presumably the ‘gassing’ incident is the one reported here https://www.gloucestershirelive.co.uk/news/gloucester-news/grandfather-grandsons-gloucester-gassed-robbed-1571524 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 I too am very skeptical, but there does seem to be something unexplained going on as all those who reckon they were gassed seem to tell a similar story? However the lack of medical evidence, blood tests etc does little to convince me although I don't know how we would ever get to hear of such evidence, and as we are not privvy to police reports I guess we will never have enough information to judge for ourselves? I do know that when very tired many of us can sleep through violent and close thunderstorms, minor earthquakes, next door's alarm and just about any noise and after a long day on the road we do get very tired. There does also seem to be a fairly common theme for these robberies of motorway type stop overs on fast and busy roads so that alone should be a good enough reason never to use such locations to sleep at no matter how tired we are or convenient they may seem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 After my bowel Cancer operation last year I was groggy for days and the same after a minor op where I was only out for only minutes. How come these people suffer no after effects at all? I think our Health Service should be finding out what is used and adopt it!!! I notice the trip was a celebration......................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Having had to wake people in the middle of the night for various reasons on a number of occasions, it might surprise most people how difficult a task that can be, and the extreme amount of noise that they can sleep through apparently undisturbed. I suspect most of the victims think that they must have been gassed because they cannot comprehend how they could have slept through the noise of someone breaking into and rifling through their van whilst they were in it. If gassing was genuinely a common phenomenon, I would have expected to have seen numerous reports of people having died as a result, which hasn't happened. There's definitely someone going round stealing an "S" from gassing though (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 michaelmorris - 2018-05-16 1:09 PM I'm one of the sceptics. See this article from the Royal College of Anaesthetists https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles Many people have read about these attacks, heard about them and some have met someone, who met someone else, who claims they were the victim of a gas attack. There is lots of anecdotal evidence, but to date, seemingly no hard facts. I suspect a more likely explanation is that many people are just much deeper sleepers than they think they are. Not given my thesis an airing for a while ........ Back by popular demand ................. Taking the skeptics view one at a time........... 1. The RCoA state it would be impossible and in their opinion prohibitively expensive, to use any of the gases currently used in anesthesia............. With the exception of hippy crack AKA laughing gas I would agree, besides CO appears to be the current method of choice, and as the RCoA email states CO is not a anesthetic so is outside their remit So the constant waving of the original RCoA opinion, in articles where CO is suspected is nothing more than a red herring. The following is the reply from RCoA..... "Thank you for your recent email concerning The Daily Mirror article. However, it appears to have given rise to some misunderstanding. Although the article identifies in the headline that it refers to exhaust fumes, it then goes on to quote from a statement on the Royal College of Anaesthetists' (RCoA) website (http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles). Exhaust fumes contain carbon monoxide, which is a poison, and is never used in anaesthetic practice. The RCoA statement refers specifically to actual or potential anaesthetic agents as follows: 'It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use'. I hope this clarifies the situation and the RCoA will be asking The Daily Mirror for a correction. Kind regards, Mrs Mandie Kelly Website and Publications Officer Communications Department Clinical Quality Directorate The Royal College of Anaesthetists | 35 Red Lion Square | London WC1R 4SG ANAESTHESIA CLINICAL SERVICES ACCREDITATION (ACSA)" 2. Impossible to fill a camper with gas?........... Air is a gas ..................and CO will expand to fill a given space **equally**, naturally at point of entry concentrations will be higher. Empirical evidence to support my theory as follows........ OBJECTIVES: It was the goal of this study to demonstrate the behavior of CO in air and to help provide a data-based recommendation for CO alarm placement. METHODS: CO was calculated to be slightly lighter than air. An 8-foot-tall airtight Plexiglas chamber was constructed and CO monitors placed within at the top, middle, and bottom. CO test gas (15 L, 3000 parts per million) was infused at each of the three heights in different trials and CO levels measured over time. RESULTS: ***********Contrary to a significant amount of public opinion, CO did not layer on the floor, float at the middle of the chamber, or rise to the top. In each case, the levels of CO equalized throughout the test chamber.************* It took longer to equalize when CO was infused at the top of the chamber than the bottom, but levels always became identical with time. CONCLUSIONS: As would have been predicted by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, CO infused anywhere within the chamber diffused until it was of equal concentration throughout. Mixing would be even faster in the home environment, with drafts due to motion or temperature. It would be reasonable to place a residential CO alarm at any height within the room. Copyright © 2012 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. 3. Lack of dead bodies?............. Given that the victims exposure to any incapacitate would be limited to minutes, and the source of gas/fumes would be removed prior to entry, plus the immediate reduction in toxic atmosphere as soon as the thieves gain access. Its not surprising that no one has yet died, although that said I would also suggest so far they have been lucky by not targeting anyone with a medical condition .............. 4. Too much of a risk for the thieves?............. The argument that the thieves wouldn't risk a murder charge, is like saying people wont commit crimes as they risk going to prison? .............Looking at it from a tea leafs point of view, his greatest unknown and "risk" is when he breaks into a camper...... unless he/she has been following them they're unlikely to know whether there's a couple of old codgers on board, or a family of 6 as in the Chadwick's robbery. Hence the use of some means to incapacitate the occupants would make total sense, and in the balance of probabilities they know their chances of getting caught at the scene is remote, and if they were........ then the EU soft justice system, would at worse case scenario see them getting done for the much lesser charge of manslaughter........ 5. Lack of medical evidence?......... Up until recently there was only the anecdotal evidence of the symptoms suffered by the victims, which are the same for those who have suffered a CO overdose ...............The Chadwick's incident has shown that CO was used..........because they were given "blood tests that proved positive for CO poisoning", and subsequently given oxygen by the French medical staff.......... 6. How do they do it?............. This is the interesting bit................. I know from my own experience with the CO alarm going off, whilst just being parked next to a vehicle undergoing diagnostics, that pumping a bit of CO through an open window or vent would be a simple matter...... Engine noise?..............on a service area is not unusual ........... Exhaust smell?............a filter would again be simple enough to add to a bit of hose .............. Alternatively there are other simple methods of generating CO, as Teflon2 pointed one out to me the other day. 7. Insurance scam?............ Its frequently said by the skeptics that claiming to be gassed is a method to ensure payout .......... Seeing as insurance companies payout regardless of whether gas was used seems a pointless exercise to me, especially when they can expect nothing but abuse from their fellow moho owners ........ 8. Alternative theory's?.......... The skeptics have tried various alternative reasons why people would sleep through their camper being robbed..............from tiredness..... too much drink.......fridge failure prior to robbery..........heavy smokers ...............unfortunately none more plausible than the use of a incapacitate in my view...........especially as we now have 4 reported incidents in 2 months ........ So newbies you have a choice between my reasoned arguments, backed up by empirical evidence, the French Police, medical evidence and 16 victims .............. Let battle commence >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 And how come the thieves don't gas themselves? Or do they wear breathing apparatus to stay awake? Afraid I'm with the sceptics on this one! Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandncaravan Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 Ok so the robber has forced a window and put the rubber pipe in the window, the end of which is connected to his car exhaust. How long does it take for the gas to fill the van and won't the burbling exhaust noise coming out of the rubber hose, now close to the occupants face, be a risky disturbance? A burbling exhaust note outside the van might not be so noisy, but inside the van at night? An idling car engine exhaust won't pump out much gas, you would need to rev it to get a decent output, which would not be at all quiet. But never mind that, he carries on pumping CO into the van which has equalised at each level and 'knocked' out the occupants. He is now ready to go in. How does he now change all the air in the van so it is safe for him to enter? Even opening 3 or 4 windows would take quite a while to change the air. I spoke to someone who claimed it happened to him and family. I truly believe that he believed it had occurred, yet he had no headache or any after effect which might be expected. No after effects at all. But they had shared a bottle of wine between three adults, not enough for a hangover, but enough for a sound sleep. The habitation lock was forced, but no windows opened. They had an alarm but never used it because of false triggering. I understand the theories but struggle with the actual mechanics of achieving them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-05-16 7:16 PM Ok so the robber has forced a window and put the rubber pipe in the window, the end of which is connected to his car exhaust. How long does it take for the gas to fill the van and won't the burbling exhaust noise coming out of the rubber hose, now close to the occupants face, be a risky disturbance? A burbling exhaust note outside the van might not be so noisy, but inside the van at night? An idling car engine exhaust won't pump out much gas, you would need to rev it to get a decent output, which would not be at all quiet. No need to force a window........ The front vent is ideal, unless you close it? ;-) ................. Engine noise on a motorway services is pretty constant in my experience........ How much CO do you need to "keep" someone asleep who is already asleep?....... Is prolly a lot less than what's needed to put someone asleep who is wide awake :-| ......... As I've said before my mechanic removed the batteries from my CO alarm when it was in his garage for a service, because the alarm kept going off .......... That shows how much CO can get into a van unintentionally 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 aandncaravan - 2018-05-16 7:16 PM Ok so the robber has forced a window and put the rubber pipe in the window, the end of which is connected to his car exhaust. Allan, Believe me if that had been the case then the MH would stink of exhaust fumes for days if not weeks afterwards! Many years ago I had the unfortunate task of removing personal items from a car where the exhaust had been routed into the car and, even several weeks later, the smell in the car made me feel positively sick. If you have ever experienced this smell you will never forget it! Having ruled out exhaust fumes this only leaves medical anaesthetic which would be required in such large volumes it would be totally impractical for the thieves to administer. And then there is still the issue of how the thieves then enter the MH with gassing themselves? Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starvin marvin Posted May 16, 2018 Share Posted May 16, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-16 5:14 PM michaelmorris - 2018-05-16 1:09 PM I'm one of the sceptics. See this article from the Royal College of Anaesthetists https://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles Many people have read about these attacks, heard about them and some have met someone, who met someone else, who claims they were the victim of a gas attack. There is lots of anecdotal evidence, but to date, seemingly no hard facts. I suspect a more likely explanation is that many people are just much deeper sleepers than they think they are. Not given my thesis an airing for a while ........ Back by popular demand ................. Taking the skeptics view one at a time........... 1. The RCoA state it would be impossible and in their opinion prohibitively expensive, to use any of the gases currently used in anesthesia............. With the exception of hippy crack AKA laughing gas I would agree, besides CO appears to be the current method of choice, and as the RCoA email states CO is not a anesthetic so is outside their remit So the constant waving of the original RCoA opinion, in articles where CO is suspected is nothing more than a red herring. The following is the reply from RCoA..... "Thank you for your recent email concerning The Daily Mirror article. However, it appears to have given rise to some misunderstanding. Although the article identifies in the headline that it refers to exhaust fumes, it then goes on to quote from a statement on the Royal College of Anaesthetists' (RCoA) website (http://www.rcoa.ac.uk/news-and-bulletin/rcoa-news-and-statements/statement-alleged-gassing-motor-vehicles). Exhaust fumes contain carbon monoxide, which is a poison, and is never used in anaesthetic practice. The RCoA statement refers specifically to actual or potential anaesthetic agents as follows: 'It is the view of the College that it would not be possible to render someone unconscious by blowing ether, chloroform or any of the currently used volatile anaesthetic agents, through the window of a motor-home without their knowledge, even if they were sleeping at the time. Ether is an extremely pungent agent and a relatively weak anaesthetic by modern standards and has a very irritant affect on the air passages, causing coughing and sometimes vomiting. It takes some time to reach unconsciousness, even if given by direct application to the face on a cloth, and the concentration needed by some sort of spray administered directly into a room would be enormous. The smell hangs around for days and would be obvious to anyone the next day. Even the more powerful modern volatile agents would need to be delivered in tankerloads of carrier gas by a large compressor. Potential agents, such as the one used by the Russians in the Moscow siege are few in number and difficult to obtain. Moreover, these drugs would be too expensive for the average thief to use'. I hope this clarifies the situation and the RCoA will be asking The Daily Mirror for a correction. Kind regards, Mrs Mandie Kelly Website and Publications Officer Communications Department Clinical Quality Directorate The Royal College of Anaesthetists | 35 Red Lion Square | London WC1R 4SG ANAESTHESIA CLINICAL SERVICES ACCREDITATION (ACSA)" 2. Impossible to fill a camper with gas?........... Air is a gas ..................and CO will expand to fill a given space **equally**, naturally at point of entry concentrations will be higher. Empirical evidence to support my theory as follows........ OBJECTIVES: It was the goal of this study to demonstrate the behavior of CO in air and to help provide a data-based recommendation for CO alarm placement. METHODS: CO was calculated to be slightly lighter than air. An 8-foot-tall airtight Plexiglas chamber was constructed and CO monitors placed within at the top, middle, and bottom. CO test gas (15 L, 3000 parts per million) was infused at each of the three heights in different trials and CO levels measured over time. RESULTS: ***********Contrary to a significant amount of public opinion, CO did not layer on the floor, float at the middle of the chamber, or rise to the top. In each case, the levels of CO equalized throughout the test chamber.************* It took longer to equalize when CO was infused at the top of the chamber than the bottom, but levels always became identical with time. CONCLUSIONS: As would have been predicted by the Second Law of Thermodynamics, CO infused anywhere within the chamber diffused until it was of equal concentration throughout. Mixing would be even faster in the home environment, with drafts due to motion or temperature. It would be reasonable to place a residential CO alarm at any height within the room. Copyright © 2012 Elsevier Inc. All rights reserved. 3. Lack of dead bodies?............. Given that the victims exposure to any incapacitate would be limited to minutes, and the source of gas/fumes would be removed prior to entry, plus the immediate reduction in toxic atmosphere as soon as the thieves gain access. Its not surprising that no one has yet died, although that said I would also suggest so far they have been lucky by not targeting anyone with a medical condition .............. 4. Too much of a risk for the thieves?............. The argument that the thieves wouldn't risk a murder charge, is like saying people wont commit crimes as they risk going to prison? .............Looking at it from a tea leafs point of view, his greatest unknown and "risk" is when he breaks into a camper...... unless he/she has been following them they're unlikely to know whether there's a couple of old codgers on board, or a family of 6 as in the Chadwick's robbery. Hence the use of some means to incapacitate the occupants would make total sense, and in the balance of probabilities they know their chances of getting caught at the scene is remote, and if they were........ then the EU soft justice system, would at worse case scenario see them getting done for the much lesser charge of manslaughter........ 5. Lack of medical evidence?......... Up until recently there was only the anecdotal evidence of the symptoms suffered by the victims, which are the same for those who have suffered a CO overdose ...............The Chadwick's incident has shown that CO was used..........because they were given "blood tests that proved positive for CO poisoning", and subsequently given oxygen by the French medical staff.......... 6. How do they do it?............. This is the interesting bit................. I know from my own experience with the CO alarm going off, whilst just being parked next to a vehicle undergoing diagnostics, that pumping a bit of CO through an open window or vent would be a simple matter...... Engine noise?..............on a service area is not unusual ........... Exhaust smell?............a filter would again be simple enough to add to a bit of hose .............. Alternatively there are other simple methods of generating CO, as Teflon2 pointed one out to me the other day. 7. Insurance scam?............ Its frequently said by the skeptics that claiming to be gassed is a method to ensure payout .......... Seeing as insurance companies payout regardless of whether gas was used seems a pointless exercise to me, especially when they can expect nothing but abuse from their fellow moho owners ........ 8. Alternative theory's?.......... The skeptics have tried various alternative reasons why people would sleep through their camper being robbed..............from tiredness..... too much drink.......fridge failure prior to robbery..........heavy smokers ...............unfortunately none more plausible than the use of a incapacitate in my view...........especially as we now have 4 reported incidents in 2 months ........ So newbies you have a choice between my reasoned arguments, backed up by empirical evidence, the French Police, medical evidence and 16 victims .............. Let battle commence >:-) ........ I think you need to get out more, you clearly have too much time on your hands. 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Keithl Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 All, I have moderated this thread and removed a few posts so as not to offend anyone further. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 I thought we were being gassed last night. It turned out that someone had left the toilet flap open :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Carbon monoxide will take a relatively long time to cause unconsciousness (1-2 hours) unless the concentration is very high (>3,000 parts per million). Even at theses levels, it will take several minutes to knock someone out and there is a very small margin before death occurs. I cannot see a thief waiting around too long to before breaking in using low levels of CO, so they would have to use high levels (and uncontrolled), in which case, there would be many deaths reported. I also think this "gassing" is just a myth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Keithl - 2018-05-16 8:30 PM aandncaravan - 2018-05-16 7:16 PM Ok so the robber has forced a window and put the rubber pipe in the window, the end of which is connected to his car exhaust. Allan, Believe me if that had been the case then the MH would stink of exhaust fumes for days if not weeks afterwards! Many years ago I had the unfortunate task of removing personal items from a car where the exhaust had been routed into the car and, even several weeks later, the smell in the car made me feel positively sick. If you have ever experienced this smell you will never forget it! Having ruled out exhaust fumes this only leaves medical anaesthetic which would be required in such large volumes it would be totally impractical for the thieves to administer. And then there is still the issue of how the thieves then enter the MH with gassing themselves? Keith. If you recall the Chadwick case they had medical tests after being gassed that proved they all had high levels of CO in their system.......... The amount of CO required to "keep" someone asleep is likely to be a lot less than, the amount to render them unconscious....... There was no smell in my camper after it came back from the garage, yet clearly the CO level must of been sufficiently dangerous to keep setting of the alarm.......... BTW CO is probably not the only method that's used.......Easy Start contains Ether ;-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 plwsm2000 - 2018-05-17 8:28 AM Carbon monoxide will take a relatively long time to cause unconsciousness (1-2 hours) unless the concentration is very high (>3,000 parts per million). Even at theses levels, it will take several minutes to knock someone out and there is a very small margin before death occurs. I cannot see a thief waiting around too long to before breaking in using low levels of CO, so they would have to use high levels (and uncontrolled), in which case, there would be many deaths reported. I also think this "gassing" is just a myth. That margin is wider than you think......Mild CO poisoning "Myth" is a regular problem in the winter in the UK.......... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-sends-4-000-people-to-a-e-each-year Besides as soon as the criminals make entry the CO level will immediately drop......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 starvin marvin - 2018-05-16 8:32 PM I think you need to get out more, you clearly have too much time on your hands. I'm retired now so have even more time on my hands >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 How many of these supposed gassing victims report the flu like symptoms referred to in the report? I suspect hangover like symptoms might be more common. With the volume of the interior of even a modest sized motorhome being in the region of 1000 cubic feet, how many cans of Easy Start would be needed to create sufficient concentration to anaesthetize the occupants? The investment in Easy Start would probably be more than the haul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-17 8:54 AM Keithl - 2018-05-16 8:30 PM aandncaravan - 2018-05-16 7:16 PM Ok so the robber has forced a window and put the rubber pipe in the window, the end of which is connected to his car exhaust. Allan, Believe me if that had been the case then the MH would stink of exhaust fumes for days if not weeks afterwards! Many years ago I had the unfortunate task of removing personal items from a car where the exhaust had been routed into the car and, even several weeks later, the smell in the car made me feel positively sick. If you have ever experienced this smell you will never forget it! Having ruled out exhaust fumes this only leaves medical anaesthetic which would be required in such large volumes it would be totally impractical for the thieves to administer. And then there is still the issue of how the thieves then enter the MH with gassing themselves? Keith. If you recall the Chadwick case they had medical tests after being gassed that proved they all had high levels of CO in their system.......... The amount of CO required to "keep" someone asleep is likely to be a lot less than, the amount to render them unconscious....... There was no smell in my camper after it came back from the garage, yet clearly the CO level must of been sufficiently dangerous to keep setting of the alarm.......... BTW CO is probably not the only method that's used.......Easy Start contains Ether ;-) ........... Most domestic CO alarms will trigger on low levels of CO for long periods OR at high levels in short duration. The low level trigger can be about 50ppm for several hours. 50 ppm is not desirable but not a big problem unless you are continously exposed to it. I would guess that your alarm triggered due to the long term exposure at low levels while in the garage, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-05-17 9:01 AM plwsm2000 - 2018-05-17 8:28 AM Carbon monoxide will take a relatively long time to cause unconsciousness (1-2 hours) unless the concentration is very high (>3,000 parts per million). Even at theses levels, it will take several minutes to knock someone out and there is a very small margin before death occurs. I cannot see a thief waiting around too long to before breaking in using low levels of CO, so they would have to use high levels (and uncontrolled), in which case, there would be many deaths reported. I also think this "gassing" is just a myth. That margin is wider than you think......Mild CO poisoning "Myth" is a regular problem in the winter in the UK.......... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-sends-4-000-people-to-a-e-each-year Besides as soon as the criminals make entry the CO level will immediately drop......... Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that CO isn't a problem generally, only in the context of "gassing" Hopefully if I ever get gassed with CO, the thief will open the doors and windows when they leave :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 plwsm2000 - 2018-05-17 9:19 AM pelmetman - 2018-05-17 9:01 AM plwsm2000 - 2018-05-17 8:28 AM Carbon monoxide will take a relatively long time to cause unconsciousness (1-2 hours) unless the concentration is very high (>3,000 parts per million). Even at theses levels, it will take several minutes to knock someone out and there is a very small margin before death occurs. I cannot see a thief waiting around too long to before breaking in using low levels of CO, so they would have to use high levels (and uncontrolled), in which case, there would be many deaths reported. I also think this "gassing" is just a myth. That margin is wider than you think......Mild CO poisoning "Myth" is a regular problem in the winter in the UK.......... https://www.gov.uk/government/news/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-sends-4-000-people-to-a-e-each-year Besides as soon as the criminals make entry the CO level will immediately drop......... Sorry, I wasn't suggesting that CO isn't a problem generally, only in the context of "gassing" Hopefully if I ever get gassed with CO, the thief will open the doors and windows when they leave :-) Don't worry ;-) ......... They will have stopped topping your van up with CO before they enter.........and then the CO levels will drop once they gain entry :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 Before any relative newcomers risk getting drawn in by one of the forum's resident time sponges, maybe they should take a quick browse through previous threads on the topic.. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Maybe-its-not-a-myth-/35425/ http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Possible-gas-attacks-/35844/ ..and although I can understand why Keithl (as a forum Mod') deleted them, it is a bit of a shame that he had to delete the, at best, ill judged "showers" comment, as such remarks do help illustrate the thought process of the poster(s) concerned.. Although we are all guilty of throwing them crumbs at some stage or other, it is also worth remembering- Do not feed the trolls ;-) (Just look what constantly feeding them has done to Troll-box(sorry "Chatterbox") *-) ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted May 17, 2018 Share Posted May 17, 2018 pepe63 - 2018-05-17 10:11 AM Before any relative newcomers risk getting drawn in by one of the forum's resident time sponges, maybe they should take a quick browse through previous threads on the topic.. http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Maybe-its-not-a-myth-/35425/ http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Possible-gas-attacks-/35844/ ..and although I can understand why Keithl (as a forum Mod') deleted them, it is a bit of a shame that he had to delete the, at best, ill judged "showers" comment, as such remarks do help illustrate the thought process of the poster(s) concerned.. Although we are all guilty of throwing them crumbs at some stage or other, it is also worth remembering- Do not feed the trolls ;-) (Just look what constantly feeding them has done to Troll-box(sorry "Chatterbox") *-) ) I'd not looked at Chatterbox before. Just spent five minutes browsing some of the more recent posts, and won't make that mistake again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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