NEW EURO ENGINE

[ham]

I Got into a conversation last in our campsite in Spain, with a English gentleman. His comments he had a van that is less than a year old. He does not rate the new engine due to excessive oil consumption. He landed at Biboa, and had a engine warning light on so he rang fiat assist. They told him do not drive the van we will get a recovery truck to the docks. they lifted him to a garage where they just added a litre of oil and said ok now you can go own. He drove down to Benicasim and the light came back on. so he bought some oil. He spoke to Fiat nd they told him yes the new engine needs lots of oil and you need to check regular. Another brit added yes he had the same problem with his new van. this does not seem right why should these new engines be oil hungry. I am thinking of changing my van but if this is correct will not

[Charles]

Ours is euro 5 so not too bad. No way would i buy new now. They are sacrificing reliability for hell bent all out war on emissions :-|

[breakaleg]

had a car once that drank oil, had it tested at a AA test centre only to be told that it was within the manufactures (ford) tolerances, just to say it went bang shortly afterwards

My euro 5 Peugeot sunseeker is fine .

[aandncaravan]

It may not be an issue with the engine itself, but other factors?

 

I tend to run old cars and a few years ago obtained a 2002 Mitsubishi Space wagon that had just had a service. Because it had just been serviced, and the the Oil looked new, I didn't do my own usual Oil change.

300 miles (a tank of fuel) checked the Oil to find it had dropped below half way down the dipstick so topped it back up. It had again lost 1/2 litre by the next tank fill.

 

So guessing someone had used 'low emmision' 0/30 style ultra thin Oil that these old school engines are not designed for, I did an Oil change, going for Mobil 10/60 which doesn't thin out like a normal 10/30 at normal running temperatures.

Up until the next 6,000 mile oil change I did not have to top it up at all. The usual hydraulic tappet noise these engines are known for, also stopped.

 

 

I suspect the higher Oil consumption is not an issue with the Fiat engine design itself, but the Oil that burns off too easily, maybe because it's too thin, designed to reduce hydraulic drag or maybe because of it's blend?.)

Possibly also an issue with the way the engine was 'run in'.

 

With very, very thin oil I suspect the first 1,000 miles of engine use are more important than they ever were.

The slightest scuffing, glazing to the Cylinder Bores might come back to haunt those who don't treat it really gently during the first few hundred miles. This might be even more crucial on a Motorhome application of the engine which place greater loads on it when new because of the almost constant 'max' weight of a Motorhome compared to a White Van,

 

 

 

Classic Cars and Mobil 10/60

The Mobil 1 10/60 has turned out to be fantastic Oil (unlike the first gen 5/50 which I didn't like, it was just too thin) and although more expensive initially than a quality 10/40 just doesn't burn off. Resulting in zero topping up, so costs about the same overall. That is quite amazing on old high mileage engines that traditionally use about 3 litre in 6,000 miles (0.5 litre every 1,000 miles).

Some Classics easily drink 1 litre per 1,000 miles so the saving might be bigger again?

It's API spec is the highest SN rating and back compatible with lower spec SM and SL.

 

 

If you have a Classic car that would take the old 20/50, so 1950's on engines with an oil filter, it's use has a lot of other advantages for older engines that tended to have narrower than ideal Mains bearings, softer bores, etc. because the Oil film is massively superior to lesser oils.

Mobil quote :

 

"Mobil 1 Extended Life 10W-60 is engineered to help provide long lasting protection in higher mileage engines so you can get long life out of your vehicle.

Extra seal conditioners to help prevent oil leaks

Helps to reduce sludge build up to keep engines clean and prevent wear

Outstanding/Excellent oil film thickness for extra protection in older engines

Higher viscosity to help reduce oil burn off in older engines

More anti-wear additives to help protect worn engines

High performance basestocks for excellent all-round wear protection".

 

 

It won't be any good in a Euro 6 Fiat but does work really well in Ford Pintos and A and B - series engines but not tested it in anything else.

Allegedly the Ford Kent engines can have longer life in racing conditions, which must give benefit on the road?

Because less oil burns, you get less Carbon build up as well. Pinto engines that had the head lifted 20k later were so clean, yet had been used in old 1940's Citroen H Coffee vans that spend all their time at town speeds. Oilway cleanliness? You wouldn't believe it if you saw it even on the 'dirty' Pinto.

 

Be an absolute Peach of an Oil in a Lancia/Fiat twin cam or Lotus.

 

My guess is that it would also reduce the Cam Lobe wear and scuffing on VW aircooled Lifters, the Oil film strength is just so amazing.

 

[pagey]

My 2017 euro6 has used half a litre of oil in 10200 miles

[Derek Uzzell]

Or the vehicle’s 'oil-condition’ datum is not being correctly set.

 

While it might (perhaps) be anticipated that a radical change of powerplant design (eg. the 2.0litre Euro 6 motor used in the latest Ford Transit and the 2.0 litre Euro 6 motor used in Citroen Relays/ Peugeot Boxers, that have replaced the earlier 2.2litre Ford-derived unit) MIGHT use more oil than their predeccessors, the 2.3litre Euro 6 motors fitted to Fiat Ducatos are just revamped versions of the Ducato’s 2.3litre Euro 5 engines. OK, the oil used in the Ducato Euro 6 motors is 0W-30, rather than the Euro 5s’ 5W-30 oil, but one would not expect that to make a major difference.

[aandncaravan]

I would expect the switch to a thinner oil to make a difference, especially so on a heavily loaded engine.

Lets not forget these are doing a whole lot more work than the average car 2.0 litre.

 

I seem to remember Nick saying that at one point on his fleet, was it the switch from euro 4 to 5?, he tried a heavier oil to reduce oil consumption and it worked.

 

Maybe confusing that with something else, but sure Nick reported something on oil consumption rising when the oil viscosity went lighter.

 

 

[Derek Uzzell]

That was to do with oil leakage, not oil consumption.

 

http://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Ducato-2-8JTD-oil-leaks/23026/

[Geeco]

In adding to Derek's comments my understanding is that the difference between a "0W-30" & a "5W-30" is that the lower number is the viscosity that the oil will be at a specific low temp. The higher number ie 30 is the viscosity the oil will thin out to at a specific elevated temp as defined by the SAE spec. Generally this variation is achieved by a chemical added to the oil ( along with others) to achieve the different lower reading. In my time at Castrol it was called a viscosity improver. I also understand that the other option is to change the base oil to achieve the difference. Either way I suspect the variation should not increase oil consumption. There are many reasons for oil consumption in engines - cylinder bore glazing caused by light throttle use, piston ring condition, piston ring lan wear in older engines etc. A heavy viscosity oil used in older engines will in most cases assist with oil consumption but should not make too much difference in a new engine to oil consumption.cheers,

[aandncaravan]

Derek, yes I was mixing it up with something else, but in that thread you post Nick does point out adopting a change from 5/40 to 10/40 made a major reduction in lost oil due to a 'thicker' viscosity. It is accepted that a 'thicker' oil tends to 'disappear' less.

The reduction in leaked oil lost was much greater than might be expected from 'such a small change' in the viscosity of the oil, especially of the 'cold' index. One might have expected a greater improvement to be achieved at the 'Hot' index by changing this to a 50 or even 60 when the oil is at it's thinnest.

 

 

 

 

Geeco, I accept the theory of what you say but Nick's experience/thread does prove a seemingly small change of just a '5' rating difference can have a big impact.

There are 'new' engines that have been 'run in' well and those that haven't that may have significant potential bore scoring, etc.

They may have 'oil use' characteristics similar to an older engine, hence my stressing the importance of looking after the engine during the first few hundred miles than ever it has been in the past.

As you point out the composition of the oil may be another factor.

 

It is accepted that a more 'runny' oil at the 'lower viscosity rating will generally result in oil leaving those areas where it is most wanted at a cold start at a later time. In a Motorhome that can be a long time idle for the oil to dissipate before the next start. That might also result in an engine showing 'older' engine characteristics.

To me, the fact that Motorhomes stay idle so long, not unusual for 6 month idle periods over winter, indicates a drop in oil visosity is a poor move.

It may be that someone who uses their motorhome a lot, like Pegey above, and covers 11k in a year, might also be someone who uses it regularly resulting in less 'Cold Start' wear.

 

I have not suggested that the oil on it's own may raise oil consumption, but a combination of that Oil, usage and running in.

That would explain why some are experiencing higher oil consumption than others.

 

 

[pagey]

alan the main reason for the 0/30 seems to be even less ash to clog up in the cat etc

[ham]

Spoke to another new van owner 3k on clock. He is having the same problem with the need to top up oil regularly Fiat told him its not a problem

[colin]

I seem to recall VW going throu a similar phase a few years back on their car engines, unfortunatly the manufacturers specs on what is aceptable oil usage is much higher than most people would expect.

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

It is up to you to keep the dipstick between max and min. So carry our regulary, and have always a top up on the road of the right oil. Not salad oil as done in the US. The oil is determined by the engine architecture and test bench runs, Some design parameters: Have a oil- mist less sump in design as BMW has. All pistons are now low friction ans have more blow- by, hence a good crankcase vent system. i did a pop-up on this on this site but no reaction: it is very important to reduce oil consumption. Then we have the injectors in the state of the art and pressure, who can produce blue smoke. Viscosity of oil discussion is from woodstock and only relevant in case it is very cold. In that case you also need a heated CCV system. To prevent popping out your sump oil. Their is always a warning in your sump by a contact trigger and your dash. In that case see a garage and change your oil. And the filter if he his on overtime.

[aandncaravan]

pagey - 2018-06-24 2:45 PM

 

Allan the main reason for the 0/30 seems to be even less ash to clog up in the cat etc

 

 

Pegey, the ash content, the amount of 'solid matter' left when the Oil burns, is only relevant if the oil combusts. If you use a thicker oil that doesn't burn, the ash content becomes irrelevant.

 

In any case introducing an oil with a 10% Ash saving and then burning 5 times as much oil won't lead to a better outcome for the Cat and DPF.

 

 

[flicka]

It must be an italian trait

Ferrari current F1 engines burn oil at an alarming rate on start up.

Clouds of billowing smoke exiting their pit garage (lol) :-> *-)

[pagey]

hi perhaps i am lucky that mine uses no oil now when its 2years old it will be out of warranty so i may use 5/30 instead

[monique.hubrechtsgm]

pagey, every combustion engine, takes some oil out of your sump. The new fiat euro 6 engine was downsized in volume. Burning of oil can take place in your turbo and produce ash, And fiat uses two types. Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.