Big garage, big payload recommendations

[coaltong]

I'd appreciate makes and models with big garages and big payloads.

 

Other requirements are: coach built; overcab bed; double dinette and fixed rear bed.

 

I've seen some Kentuck and Rimor models like this. I can drive over 3.5t on my licence.

 

I want to avoid twin axle vans but I have seen some with a single rear axle with four tyres. Does this this equal a better payload?

[Wasnt Me]

Hi yes double wheels can mean more payload possibilities but you will need to check the paperwork and chassis plates. As they could be rated to only 3500kg (which equals poor payload) or up to 3850kg or there abouts.

 

These are quite often Transits, that are designed for carrying weight.

 

You can also get some motorhomes uprated to have higher payloads. There is a company called SV tech who can advise.

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/

 

You could also look at Chausson and Rollerteam too.

 

Good luck with finding your van.

 

:-D

[colin]

Big garage and big payloads usually means a lot of weight on rear axle, as a minimum you need it on a Fiat Maxi chassis, which means gross of over 4t, avoid 3850 as this will be a light chassis.

[laimeduck]

coaltong - 2018-07-21 11:12 AMI'd appreciate makes and models with big garages and big payloads.Other requirements are: coach built; overcab bed; double dinette and fixed rear bed. I've seen some Kentuck and Rimor models like this. I can drive over 3.5t on my licence. I want to avoid twin axle vans but I have seen some with a single rear axle with four tyres. Does this this equal a better payload?

My 2004 Benimar Perseo 710CCX would seemingly fit the bill to a certain extent?

-Large Garage which will take 125cc Motorbike, Foldup Electric Bikes, Tables & Chairs. Fixed double over the garage. A dinette of sorts, (using swivel cab seats plus fixed bench seat) but no overcab bed.

Rated at 3850Kg.

With all our clobber in it, and no water or waste water, we have ample payload - BUT only for the two of us.

I'm guessing that you want to travel with and sleep 4? I really don't see you are going to fill all your wishlist and you will have to compromise I think?

 

[coaltong]

I was wondering about Rollerteam. We has an Autotrail Apache 700 on a Max chassis which offered all we wanted but not the rear bed and garage.

 

Basically we are after the Apache 700 with a fixed bed and large garage.

 

The closes we found so far is the Rimor NG5 and Kentucky Camp Corral

[flicka]

Hi coaltong

Both Rimor & Kentucky were notorious in the early/mid noughties for offering multi-berth models with huge garages & long overhangs at the rear BUT not stating any payload figures. This appeared to them relying on their appearance with twin rear wheels to entice buyers. Many buyers had to get the suspension upgraded & some having to take a big loss because they did not have the necessary licence to exceed 3500kg MAM. This may have changed, as I have not looked at any of the current models.

So it would be prudent to insist on a weighbridge check before purchase, remembering that any load behind the rear axle creates a fulcrum effect where the weight exerted is greater than the actual weight of equipment.

There is a calculator on the SV Tech website that shows the resulting impact of the fulcrum effect.

[StuartO]

In order to allow them to maximise the "payload" which they can claim their products have, some manufacturershave in recent years been making unrealistic assumptions about loading practice - for example that very little fresh water is carried when travelling and that motorhomers only fill their tanks on arrival at a campsite and drain them down before leaving.  This is nonesense because most motorhomers want to have plenty of water as they travel, in case they cannot easily fill up when they stop.

So choosing a motorhome when you are a novoice motorhomer is more difficult these days - and you can easily underestimate the importance of establish the genuine payload which each motorhome you inspect actually offers.  Getting a motorhome weighed before you commit to buying it, so you know what is actually weighs, is a very good idea.

[coaltong]

Looking at the Ducato brochure the long wheel base Maxi has a max gross weight of 4250kg. Not sure how that splits between two axles?

 

Thus, at least I know the tyres, hubs, brakes and suspension on that base chassis is good for 4250kg I guess. Then it just depends on deducting the weight of the base vehicle and habitation.

 

Does anyone know if an Alko chassis conversion would add to the 4250kg or maybe move more of the capacity to the rear axle? Or is 4250kg the end of the story?

 

The panel van version shows a max payload of 2190kg.

 

I also note some garages are limited to 150kg while others go above 300kg. I assume this relates to the strength of the floor and the chassis extension.

[Brock]

Coaltong doesn't mention how the motorhome will be used or the budget although there is a reference to an Apache. Depending on what is meant by 'big' [i'd say c8m and on a 4.25 ton+ chassis], I would ignore the Fiats and go for a Merc or Iveco but that will limit the choice by a sizeable margin. Looking at vans from Germany, such as the Concorde Cruiser Daily might mean going to Germany for one although Concorde does have an English dealer. You could be looking at an UK built RS motorhome such as the Endeavour based on an Iveco body.

[Derek Uzzell]

Technical details of current Fiat Ducato chassis can be found here

 

http://www.plattsvancentre.com/fiat-professional-new-ducato-conversion-vans.php?id=318&TechnicalDataLoadCapacity

 

Apparently a Ducato “Maxi” chassis’s maximum permitted axle loadings are

- Front axle: 2100 kg

- Rear axle: up to 2500 kg

 

For a Ducato-based design with a ‘single-wheel’ rear axle it’s the specification of the rear tyres that will limit the maximum rear axle loading, and this will be so whether the motorhome has a Fiat or an Al-Ko chassis. Obviously using an Al-Ko chassis with tandem rear axles will increase the motorome’s weight-carrying capability at the back end.

 

Motorhomes based on Mercedes Sprinter or Iveco Daily chassis with a twinned-wheel rear axle normally have a considerable rear axle load-carrying capacity (and a consequential large payload). But such designs are expensive new (and 2ndhand unless old) so - as Brock says - coaltong will need to set a price ’window’.

[Brian Kirby]

coaltong - 2018-07-21 11:12 AM

 

I'd appreciate makes and models with big garages and big payloads.

 

Other requirements are: coach built; overcab bed; double dinette and fixed rear bed.

 

I've seen some Kentuck and Rimor models like this. I can drive over 3.5t on my licence.

 

I want to avoid twin axle vans but I have seen some with a single rear axle with four tyres. Does this this equal a better payload?

It depends on what you mean by "big". But, assuming you do mean big, I think you're out of Fiat Ducato territory, and into IVECO, Mercedes, or even MAN, territory. You say an overcab bed plus fixed rear bad, so I think you're into A Class territory.

 

So, if I'm right on the above, I think you need to look a Rapido, Fleurette, Hymer, Niesmann + Bischoff, Carthago, Concorde, Laika, Burstner, Dethleffs, Le Voyageur, Frankia, Pilote, Bavaria, and RMB, which I believe are all represented in UK - though there may be only one dealer in some cases. That should be enough to get you going. There may be one or two I've forgotten! :-)

[Derek Uzzell]

Coaltong mentions seeking an Auto-Trail Apache 700 design of motorhome, but with fixed bed and rear garage - so that implies a length of around 7.5 metres.

[coaltong]

In terms of budge I'm look up to £50k used, 2 to 3 years old.

 

Size wise the I was hoping for something Apache sized.

 

The garage and payload relates to what we want to carry.

 

Four adults, usual personal belongings. Then comes the problem: large awning, canoe, four bikes, small motorcycle, tools, BBQ etc, etc.

 

I'd also want to add an aircon unit to the roof.

 

On the weighbridge the Apache could, in theory, have handled all that OK. However, without the garage I would have had to add a motor cycle carrier. This would have pushed the weight even further back and exceeded the towbar load due to the fact the chassis extension is just bolted on. I assume the Alko chassis is one piece.

 

Looking at the above Maxi specs I'm sure that chassis would be OK provided I could find a model on a Maxi chassis with a garage tall and wide enough to get a small motorcycle through.

 

The double dinette is so we can feed four adults. One then sleeps over cab, two sleep on fixed bed and one sleeps on dinette bed.

 

 

[Wasnt Me]

 

Is this any good.

 

http://motorhomesltd.com/product/rimor-koala-elite-722-2017/

 

 

Have you considered a trailer?

 

 

Or is that not an option for you?

[Brian Kirby]

coaltong - 2018-07-22 5:14 PM

 

In terms of budge I'm look up to £50k used, 2 to 3 years old.

 

Size wise the I was hoping for something Apache sized.

 

The garage and payload relates to what we want to carry.

 

Four adults, usual personal belongings. Then comes the problem: large awning, canoe, four bikes, small motorcycle, tools, BBQ etc, etc.

 

I'd also want to add an aircon unit to the roof.

 

On the weighbridge the Apache could, in theory, have handled all that OK. However, without the garage I would have had to add a motor cycle carrier. This would have pushed the weight even further back and exceeded the towbar load due to the fact the chassis extension is just bolted on. I assume the Alko chassis is one piece.

 

Looking at the above Maxi specs I'm sure that chassis would be OK provided I could find a model on a Maxi chassis with a garage tall and wide enough to get a small motorcycle through.

 

The double dinette is so we can feed four adults. One then sleeps over cab, two sleep on fixed bed and one sleeps on dinette bed.

My mistake, I thought you were referring to drop down over cab beds, not Luton type.

 

Having said that, I'm not sure you would be able to carry what you are hoping to carry even on the Ducato maxi chassis. Again, if I'm understanding correctly, to pack what you want to carry into a "garage" it will need to be large, and that implies a substantial overhang behind the rear axle.

 

Therein lies the rub. Any load behind the rear axle places more than its self-weight onto the rear axle, deducting the difference from front axle load. Apart from quickly loading up the rear axle this can result in uncomfortable handling as the (relatively) lightly loaded front tries to control the (relatively) heavily loaded rear.

 

As you know what you want to put into that rear garage, do you know how much it all weighs? The effects of leverage on axle loads are relatively easy to calculate, so if you could find the actual axle loads in "Running Order" state, you could use the wheelbase and the rear overhang to work out how it would distribute onto each axle.

 

Apart from the rear axle loading itself, I believe all garage models have a separate structural garage load limit. That may eliminate some possible contenders before you waste time calculating how the garage load might distribute.

 

Forgot to say, I think you may find the "tag axle" vans will give the loading it seems you will need, and will to some extent overcome the stability issues as well.

[tonyishuk]

Does all the load have to be in the mhome ?

 

Most 3.5 ton mhomes may be able to tow a box trailer. My Rapido can tow to two tons , not that I tow that much.

 

That said , do check the obvious, such as train weight, nose weight, can a tow bar actually be fitted, for some obscure reason some plates give a train weight but are unable to tow because of position of tanks or long overhang.

 

And you don't have store everything in the Motorhome

 

Rgds

 

 

[Brock]

I'm guessing that twin wheels at the rear will rule out a Fiat Ducato because I have never seen such a chassis. That means possibly a Renault or Ford base, with Merc and Iveco for the higher weights - all RWD. You've already identified Rimor and Kentucky.

 

You might have more luck in the A-class category such as the Hymer Starlight, Carthago Highliner or predecessor.

 

Or you are back to the Fiat/Alko offerings with 'twin axles'. And they come with pros and cons. At least they will meet most of your needs. The Burstner Argos is quite a beast.

 

I hope somebody with more up to date knowledge than me can come to your rescue. I'm stumped for now.

 

 

[Alanf1]

The twin rear wheel models are generally on the Transit chassis.

Others to look at are Dethleffs, Burstner, Chausson, Roller Team.

 

This is similar to what we wanted and we have now got a Chausson Welcome 28G, plated at 3850kg with twin rear wheels, fixed bed, overcab bed and dinette.

They do not come available very often so you need to keep looking for vans being sold.

[coaltong]

I've kept on searching an it looks like Chausson, Roller Team, Kentucky and Rimor are the winners so far. If I can find an appropriate model with either the heavy duty chassis upgrade or spare axle capacity which I can up rate then I'm done.

 

An Argos would be great. I get very envious when I see one but I don't have room to store it.

 

I've come across some ex-rental Roller Teams which seem to offer a good price. We tried a Roller Team in the past and liked the layout but the habitation was a bit rattly and squeaky on the move. Not sure if it was a bad example but I guess we could fix that if it is a known problem.

 

Thanks for all your help

[Keithl]

coaltong - 2018-07-24 9:14 AM

 

I've come across some ex-rental Roller Teams which seem to offer a good price. We tried a Roller Team in the past and liked the layout but the habitation was a bit rattly and squeaky on the move. Not sure if it was a bad example but I guess we could fix that if it is a known problem.

 

Thanks for all your help

 

There's an article on OAL about the hire company 'Just Go' and their fleet of RollerTeams for next years season...

 

https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/news/win-a-motorhome-trip-to-italy-worth-over-1000

 

Keith.

[Derek Uzzell]

coaltong - 2018-07-24 9:14 AM

 

I've kept on searching an it looks like Chausson, Roller Team, Kentucky and Rimor are the winners so far. If I can find an appropriate model with either the heavy duty chassis upgrade or spare axle capacity which I can up rate then I'm done...

 

 

As far as I’m aware there was no “heavy duty chassis upgrade” on motorhomes that were built on the Ford Transit twinned-wheel rear-axle chassis (Chausson, Rimor, etc.) That chassis left the Ford factory with the capability of being marketed with a 3850kg maximum authorised mass (MAM) and the converter chose to offer the resultant motorhome with a MAM of 3850kg ‘downplated’ to 3500kg. But in both cases the chassis was exactly the same.

 

Also all motorhomes built on that Transit 3850kg chassis will have some age by now, as (again as far as I’m aware) no motorhome manufacturer has chosen to build on a Transit Mk 8 (introduced in 2014) chassis with twinned-wheel rear-axle.

 

If you want lots of payload, a large rear garage, a twinned-wheel rear axle, and for the motorhome to be less than 3 years old, you’ll probably need to look at vehicles on an Iveco or Mercedes base.

[pepe63xnotuse]

If "Big garage, big payload" were my key requirements, I would definitely be looking twin rear wheel DRIVE..(as you now seem to be doing?)

 

As it was, we were "embarrassed" enough times with our front wheel drive van (3850kg, 7m low profile)getting stuck on "damp" grass, without factoring in a scooter and a garage full of clobber. :-S

 

Axle capacities aside, also keep an eye on their rear overhangs. Some of the twin rear wheeled Transit based MHs we looked at over the years, had quite long,and low overhangs...

 

 

[coaltong]

Just been to see a Roller Team Zefiro 690. Seems to tick all the boxes. Huge garage. It's plated at 3500kg by Roller Team but the VIN plate shows 1850kg front axle and 2250kg rear axle so I assume it could be up plated to 4100kg.

 

I'm going to send the VIN plates to SV Tech to see what they say.

[pepe63xnotuse]

Sorry, I hadn't realised you were looking at brand spanking new ones... :$

 

Assuming it's the same model, this blurb says "3650kg maximum gross vehicle weight....Not X available"

https://www.rollerteammotorhomes.co.uk/range/zefiro/690/technical-data

 

If it was easily and cheaply "doable", why wouldn't the manufacturer already offer it?

 

It would be worth having a forum search, as some owners of new-ish Transits have posted about having repeated troubles with *injectors (*I think it was?)

 

[coaltong]

I got a reply on up rating the weight limit. Essentially it can go to 4,000kg without vehicle modifications and 4,100 with air assist on the suspension and uprated tires. This would take the rear axle to 2,430kg.

 

Re price, ebay is showing ex hire, 15,000 miles for £38,000.