Interesting Petition

[Brock]

I've read the comments on the other forum. It is, unfortunately, an example of the sort of response an ill-informed petition can get and an example why these petitions damage the reputation of motorhomers.

 

 

 

[colin]

From what I've seen caravaners are enthusiastic embracers of new technology cars, or at least lots of them have Mitsu PHEV's, and considering the C&MC policy on EHU why wouldn't they.

[yeti]

Why not draw a petition for the National Trusts and other large venues such as theme parks to permit limited overnighting at their sites.

[Don636]

I was wondering where this idea came from that there is going to be a lack of suitable tow cars in the future as it seems nonsense to me. I don't see cars getting any smaller or lighter any time soon, in fact the opposite seems to be the case, especially with the rise and rise of the dreaded SUVs. Diesel is taking a bit of a battering at the moment but I very much doubt it is going away in my lifetime. If diesel were to disappear what is wrong with petrol or, heaven forbid, hybrids as they have plenty of power surely. Fuel consumption might not be as good with petrol but it would not be worse that a motorhome. This just sounds like a scare story to back up someone's desire to have more cheap Aires provided for their benefit - what is wrong with the existing campsite facilities?

[dicksob]

As users of stellplatz, Aires, camperstops etc abroad it seems more are becoming “full facilities” and charging between £10/15 per night, we think quite reasonably. Valencia camperstop being a good example. In the uk the mix of cl/cs sites and Britstops etc seems to fill roughly the same market.

Think the prospect of either club ( we are members of both) changing substantially I think is slim, most have high occupancy rates and are clearly meeting members needs.

[malc d]

Don636 - 2018-08-06 7:42 PM

 

………..- what is wrong with the existing campsite facilities?

 

 

 

Far too much space on them for some people.

 

 

;-)

 

( p.s. Someone will now post a photo of a nice rural aire with one van on it )

 

[colin]

malc d - 2018-08-06 7:47 PM

 

Don636 - 2018-08-06 7:42 PM

 

………..- what is wrong with the existing campsite facilities?

 

 

 

Far too much space on them for some people.

 

 

;-)

 

( p.s. Someone will now post a photo of a nice rural aire with one van on it )

 

My preference is for small campsites, but a few aires in the right places which allow late night arrivals could get a lot of trade. Go to a motorway services at bottom end of M5 esp. on a Friday night and it will be packed with vans and caravans. The Scottish borders is another area which could do good trade.

[arthur49]

malc d - 2018-08-06 7:47 PM

 

Don636 - 2018-08-06 7:42 PM

 

………..- what is wrong with the existing campsite facilities?

 

 

Far too much space on them for some people.

 

 

 

We are in that camp.

Pitches at Edinburgh C&MC site for example are approx 10m x 10m. About the size of a small African state!:-S

Our van is 6.35m long and about 2m wide. Plenty of scope to reduce the size of some pitches, increasing site capacity, and still maintaining the 6m rule :-D

And I don't need EHU.

[arthur49]

Could I widen this topic a little. I'm not really interested in the CAMC providing Aires because I think there's more chance of me winning the lottery than the CAMC being interested in the issue ...... and I don't do the lottery!

But, I would like the CAMC (and CCC) to adapt and better meet the needs of some (lots of?) motorhome owners. An example:-

We spent just over 4 weeks touring Denmark and north Germany in May. This is one 'camperstop' we stayed at:

https://www.stade-tourismus.de/en/travelling-by-mobile-home

If you scroll down you will see that the basic charge is 13 Euro/night. We stayed 3 nights. We did a clothes/towel wash and used the dryer. We each had a shower every morning. I took on some water, emptied waste, and overall, for 3 nights I averaged 17 Euro/night. And that is the charge in the high season. I haven't checked today but I suspect CAMC sites at present are at least £28. Why?

I would suggest part of the reason is staffing (and units/square metre?). Most CAMC staff are very pleasant in our experience but Stade above is fully automated. Just log in on arrival, collect your 'Tallycard' and log out and pay on departure. Oh I hear some cry, who maintains the grounds and cleans the toilets? Contract gardener/cleaner?

And this link gives an impression of the extremely pleasant town of Stade which is about 10 minute walk from the 'Camperstop'

https://www.stade-tourismus.de/en/home

And heaven forfend I hear some cry "there's not 6m spacing between units!!!". Thats true and motorhomers all over continental Europe are dying in the infernos, not to mention the huge damage to motorhomes for those who escaped the inferno but unable to drive away.

So, in summary CAMC, adapt to current needs of ALL members? I don't expect you to halve your overnight charges but get a grip and nudge towards those who don't need a pitch the size of a small African state, who don't want overheated toilet blocks, and don't need EHU.

We are currently members of both UK Clubs ...... I say currently for a reason

[Derek Uzzell]

In France some 400 campsites offer the “Stop Accueil Camping-Car” formula that recognises that motorhome usage can differ significantly from caravanning.

 

https://www.ffcc.fr/boutique/3w/upload/produits/ab79e139d53d3ce8da91def4a5f6ff78.pdf

 

More extreme is the smallish privately-operated “Camping-Car Park” network where redundant campsites or aires (and some brand new installations) are dedicated to motorhomes, with 365/24/7 fully automated entry and exit and no WCs or showers. An example of one site we stayed at recently is here

 

https://www.campercontact.com/en/france/pays-de-la-loire-44-49-53-72-85/bazougen-sur-le-loir/61442/aire-camping-car-park-bazouges-sur-le-loir

 

The Camping-Car Park formula meets the requirements stated in the petition (and a space can be booked in advance if you really want to) but there are not (and no convincing argument that there will be) redundant campsites/aires in the UK and I really can’t see the CMC or anybody else investing in 'new build’ installations just for motorhomes.

[arthur49]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-08-07 8:42 AM

 

..... and I really can’t see the CMC or anybody else investing in 'new build’ installations just for motorhomes.

 

I totally agree Derek.

 

What I'm proposing in my post above is adapting some pitches on Club sites and nudging towards value for money for 'light touch' motorhomers like me. Maybe even some progress towards automation to reduce costs and thereby fees ...... as the example in my post above.

 

As a member of C&MC for many years I wrote to them a few years back suggesting ways to reduce costs and proposing a way forward. The reply was PR bovine effluent. "Club fees are competitive with Commercial sites blah blah ....".

 

The CCC have nudged a little towards my needs. They offer stopovers at £7 ish where you can use all facilities for up to 3 hours I think it is, then move on.

[breakaleg]

I often make suggestions to the camc.

I feel that there could be better use of cl's stick with the five van limit and on the larger cl's 1 acre + allow overnight stops for motorhomes so, five units +up to five Motorhome's per night just to add some extra income to the cl owners and flexibility for motorhomes on tour, probably find some flouting of rules but how many people using a cl is a club member, my membership has only ever been checked about four times in forty years and I think that they were new cl owners.

I have pushed for club sites to have better motorhome service points as the original ones didn't actually work that well and even the new ones have flaws, why is it that a service point dosen't have the ability to be able to empty the cassette toilet, all the other filling points do on some they don't even have dustbins.

There is usually just one motorhome service point but you can't fully service the motorhome?

Pete

[arthur49]

breakaleg - 2018-08-07 10:21 AM

 

There is usually just one motorhome service point but you can't fully service the motorhome?

Pete

 

Edinburgh C&MC site is a classic example of how not to upgrade a MSP. In very recent years the one at the toilet block (there are 2) was 'improved'. Basically unless your waste vents at the rear of the van its hassle. My waste tap is on offside just in front of rear wheel. The roadway is one way and to respect that I have to reverse 30m up the road and position myself with tap over drain. There isn't room to manoeuvre over drain by going forwards up the road as the drain is too close to a pavement. Then get out of van, onto all fours and lift the solid cover off the drain. Its not that easy because the cover is not lightweight and its awkward. Empty waste and reverse the process. Ridiculous.

 

Solution is simple. Put drain about another metre into the road and replace the cover with a grate or a handle operated vent. But they've already wasted money on the existing improvement!!

 

On a different tack, over the past 15 years we've been regular visitors to a CL near our daughter and grandchildren. The owner was quite happy with what he was charging and told me the C&MC were urging him to increase his price. He eventually relented as his family agreed with the Club. So a 33% increase occurred in one go. We have no intention of stopping going to the CL but could it be that a Club Site was located 10 miles away and the CL was 'competition'. Thats what the CL owner thought and I tend to agree.

 

As I said earlier over the years I've found the vast majority of C&MC wardens to be good people so my criticism is not of them. My critcism is of a bloated Club at high level. marketing led, with no idea of how to innovate or change eg why are they headquartered in the most expensive area of the UK. Move out and reduce overheads (not India)

 

Sorry for diverting from the OP's topic but the issues are intertwined I think

 

 

[breakaleg]

I have mobility problems (I use two walking sticks) so pulling up man hole covers to empty waste dosen't work for me and having to get back into the van because the water filler is on the other side and then move the van because the toilet emptying point is a long way off etc.

All they need do is; have a wide area available leaving a meter and a half either side of the van, a slight trench near the front wheel with a grid to capture waste water, dustbins close by and a toilet emptying point.

How difficult would it be?

Pete

[malc d]

breakaleg - 2018-08-07 10:21 AM

 

 

There is usually just one motorhome service point but you can't fully service the motorhome?

 

Pete

 

 

We carry a length of hose ( about 8 ft ) which we occasionally use if we can't easily get near enough to the grey water drain.

This just has a rubber push fit connection on one end which pushes on to our drain tap.

 

Has saved us quite a bit of maneuvering over time.

 

 

:-|

[breakaleg]

Hi Malc,

Thanks for that but using two walking sticks and being unable to get down that low makes it extremely difficult for me.

I have had wardens say, just come and find me and we will lift the manhole but going for long walks looking for wardens is difficult and if they are busy, you would have to move the van for others to use the service point.

It would be a lot easier if you could drive over a slight slope and let it drain.

Pete

[Bulletguy]

EJB - 2018-08-04 5:08 PM

 

That's a good idea!...Like aires or Stellplatze….wonder what happened to the thousands of petitions before it?

Still it keeps someone occupied for a few seconds (lol)

Binned i expect. Brits like RULES......tons of 'em. They have a masochistic desire to be told what to do and how......then sit watching for anyone who dares not obey!!

 

And that's pretty much why neither Aires or Stellplatz type parking would work in UK, not to mention they'd want to make crazily excessive overnight fees.

 

 

 

Don636 - 2018-08-04 8:29 PM

 

Not for me as I don't really like aires, or glorified car parks as I see them. Much prefer to stay in a nice campsite with lots of rules to keep out the riff raff.

You'd have been 'at home' on a site i stayed recently in Romania owned by a Dutch couple. An A4 sheet listed The Rules. Smoking only allowed by or inside your van despite there being outdoor shelters and ALL vehicles had to face forward (don't ask me why!). *-)

 

When i asked why they weren't listed on ACSI (particularly being Dutch), the owners wife curtly replied, "because we had a disagreement with them".....why was i not surprised to hear that?!! Oh and on leaving i idled the engine over whilst setting my gps and within seconds Frau CampingFuehrer came strutting down and stood in front of my van glaring. Boy was i glad to see the back of those two!! *-)

[pottypam]

The CMC’s Burrs Country Park used to have two lidded manholes for grey waste, positioned so that one or other could be accessed depending on which side the van’s drain was. Those have been replaced by a single drive over grid, much better. The MHS is next to an ordinary SP, with cassette emptying point and dustbins so everything can be done at the same place.

[colin]

Bulletguy - 2018-08-07 1:45 PM

 

You'd have been 'at home' on a site i stayed recently in Romania owned by a Dutch couple.

 

The Dutch love their rules, parking (of any vehicle) and 'wild' camping being favourite targets.

[Don636]

Site in Romania sounds like my type of place but I would ban smoking anywhere.

[arthur49]

Don636 - 2018-08-07 4:10 PM

 

Site in Romania sounds like my type of place but I would ban smoking anywhere.

 

I'm assuming you're joking. If not you're going to be a barrel of laughs to be pitched alongside ...... and I don't smoke!! ;-) ;-) ;-)

[Don636]

No, I'm not joking and I don't expect to have to be a barrel of laughs for my neighbours either. I keep to myself and prefer if they do the same so no loud talking, no music and especially no yapping dogs. I go camping to enjoy the fresh air and the countryside, not to interact with people. One of the reasons I don't like aires is that the vehicles tend to be crammed in and I really don't like being that close to my neighbours so the 6m rule is OK with me.

 

I can smell cigarette smoke a mile away and find it offensive. I appreciate that there is no chance of banning smoking completely but I live in hope.

[Bulletguy]

colin - 2018-08-07 2:47 PM

 

Bulletguy - 2018-08-07 1:45 PM

 

You'd have been 'at home' on a site i stayed recently in Romania owned by a Dutch couple.

 

The Dutch love their rules, parking (of any vehicle) and 'wild' camping being favourite targets.

True Colin they are known for 'being organised' but as for 'wild' camping, many co-ordinates i've used this year have come from an excellent travel blog by a Dutch/Australian couple i met a few years back in Albania and the majority of their 'stops' are 'wild'. They were more chilled out than most....a really great couple. Click on Maps to see their tour routes then kangaroo icons for place and co-ords. http://www.travelbunyip.com/

 

 

Don636 - 2018-08-07 4:10 PM

 

Site in Romania sounds like my type of place but I would ban smoking anywhere.

Yeah somehow i knew it would appeal! ;-)

 

I find it odd someone would 'ban smoking anywhere' whilst driving around in a diesel powered mh which produce way more carcinogens than tobacco (data source WHO)......or have you gone over to solar or wind power? ;-)

 

Don636 - 2018-08-07 6:01 PM

 

I go camping to enjoy the fresh air and the countryside, not to interact with people.

Each to their own Don but i'm curious as to whether you tour outside UK or stick only within the Motherland? I've lost count of the number of different nationalities i've mixed with during this tour...and always interested in other folks travels...where they've been or going to etc.

[malc d]

Bulletguy - 2018-08-08 11:05 AM

 

 

I find it odd someone would 'ban smoking anywhere' whilst driving around in a diesel powered mh which produce way more carcinogens than tobacco (data source WHO)......or have you gone over to solar or wind power? ;-)

 

 

 

Travelling around in vehicles which emit carcinogens and other pollutants - whether it's your own or someone elses - is unavoidable ( currently ).

 

Smoking cigarettes is optional.

 

:-|

[Don636]

As to the bit about why I would ban smoking when our vans emit emissions the concern is that I don't like the smell of cigarette smoke whereas I don't normally smell diesel emissions. As for the environmental effects this is not something I can do anything about apart from not buying a diesel or indeed any fossil fuelled vehicle and that is not going to happen as I am not that bothered.

As to where I visit it is both the UK and Europe at the moment although in the past I have toured in rented motorhomes in Australia and New Zealand and toured the US for a year in an RV I bought there.

I am just not that interested in talking to other people or in what they are doing. If someone comes up to me to chat I will engage as I am not rude but I do not need the company of anyone other than my lovely wife.