Gas problem (Gaslow and Calor)

[Barryd999]

Our 11kg gaslow bottle is nearing empty and I am unable to refill it so I have switched to 6KG Calor. For days though before I switched There has been an acrid smell I think from the Flu exhausts blowing back through the vents into the motorhome (its not sealed very well our kitchen as we do get drafts). I do know that the gas can get a bit smelly as it nears empty but Im not convinced its that.

 

I could not get the regulator off the Gaslow bottle when I came to swap to the Calor as I clearly over tightened it so in order to be able to use the 6KG Calor I went and bought a new 37m Butane regulator and just fitted that to the calor and swapped the hose over. There is no smell now. The Fridge flame is blue but with flecks of orange which I Think means it maybe needs cleaning.

 

We have had the Gaslow nearly 9 years and the regulator thats on it is ancient. Came with the van pre 2008. So my questions are, Is the smell just the result of the Gaslow bottle running very low? Is it somehow bunged up and not performing very well? (I think I read about a Gaslow system having to be "Purged" the other day). Or, do these regulators wear out and has fitting the new regulator made a difference? I suppose I will find out the answer to that last question if I can ever get the original regulator off the Gaslow bottle and replace it with the new one.

 

Does any of this make sense to anyone?

[starvin marvin]

Take the van to an expert, Dave Newell would sort it. Don’t muck about.

[Barryd999]

Thanks but Im not really mucking about. Everything is working ok. We have been switching the fridge off overnight mainly because of the smell, it happened once before and shortly after the fridge stopped working and needed servicing on our our return and a new burner but it had all that done again last year. Seems fine though since we switched to Calor. I agree though, it probably does need looking at by a proper Gaslow type engineer, I just wondered if others had experienced similar and what the outcome was.

[Tracker]

Barry, I get the impression that you are using the older type of regulator that fixes to the gas bottle and feeds via low pressure hose rather than the later bulkhead mounted regulator fed by a high presssure hose?

 

If so, these low pressure hoses do go porous and can leak and they are also prone to splitting. They have, if I recall right, a two year optimum life from the date of manufacture which should be printed on them after which they should be replaced, ensuring that jubilee clips are fitted each end.

 

I would also always check for leaks with dilute washing up liquid, in fact I used to do that whenever I changed anything gas bottle related.

 

I've never noticed a gas smell when a bottle is nearly empty although with some older vans you can get a gas smell if the flame goes out and the remnants of gas seep through if the van does not have low pressure sensitive cut offs for each appliance.

 

[Keithl]

Tracker - 2018-08-06 4:56 PM

 

They have, if I recall right, a two year optimum life from the date of manufacture which should be printed on them after which they should be replaced, ensuring that jubilee clips are fitted each end.

 

 

I've never noticed a gas smell when a bottle is nearly empty

 

Tracker, Barry,

 

I believe the life of low pressure orange gas hose is actually five years from date of manufacture, not two.

 

I recently finished a 13 kg Calor Propane and there was a very significant odour prior to it actually running out which disappeared immediately I switched to the new cylinder. I believe the 'Stenching agent' settles out of the liquified gas and hence smells stronger just before the cylinder runs out.

 

Barry, if you where very low on LPG in your refillable this may have well been the reason.

 

Keith.

 

Edit to add Quote from Calor:

 

"We have no specific recommendation for the exchange interval for vapour hoses, but it is considered

that the normal useful service life of such hoses is 5 years"

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/PDF/using-hoses-and-tubing-250913.pdf

[Barryd999]

Thanks. It's the red flying saucer shaped regulator that attaches to te gas Bottle Rich. 37 millibar. £7.

 

 

I just pulled the hose out of the old one that's on the gaslow bottle and shoved it on the new regulator attached to the calor

 

My theory is that the gas from the gaslow isn't burning as well in the fridge and that could be because it's nearly empty or maybe there is something up with the old regulator. It's using the same hoses though which were replaced a couple of years back and look fine.

 

I guess I won't know until I fill the gas low again but can't for now.

[emmerson]

Keithl - 2018-08-06 5:03 PM

 

Tracker - 2018-08-06 4:56 PM

 

They have, if I recall right, a two year optimum life from the date of manufacture which should be printed on them after which they should be replaced, ensuring that jubilee clips are fitted each end.

 

 

I've never noticed a gas smell when a bottle is nearly empty

 

Tracker, Barry,

 

I believe the life of low pressure orange gas hose is actually five years from date of manufacture, not two.

 

I recently finished a 13 kg Calor Propane and there was a very significant odour prior to it actually running out which disappeared immediately I switched to the new cylinder. I believe the 'Stenching agent' settles out of the liquified gas and hence smells stronger just before the cylinder runs out.

 

Barry, if you where very low on LPG in your refillable this may have well been the reason.

 

Keith.

 

Edit to add Quote from Calor:

 

"We have no specific recommendation for the exchange interval for vapour hoses, but it is considered

that the normal useful service life of such hoses is 5 years"

 

https://www.calor.co.uk/media/wysiwyg/PDF/using-hoses-and-tubing-250913.pdf

 

I agree with the above. I can always tell in advance when a bottle is about to run out by the strong smell.

[Tracker]

I can't recall exactly but I seem to remember the old black low pressure gas hose had to be replaced more frequently than every five years - or perhaps I was just fussy and changed it before the gas locker smelt of gas, which was also sometimes a lot less than five years?

Anyway it was so cheap it was daft not to change it when in doubt!

[witzend]

Tracker - 2018-08-06 4:56 PM

I've never noticed a gas smell when a bottle is nearly empty

 

We always wait for the smell which for us is 3 days before bottle goes empty before getting a replacement. Never failed yet was told years ago that when the fire starts to smell gas hasn't long left to run

 

UK French Spanish Portuguese bottles all the same

[wints]

Similar probs over the last 18 months...sooting at fridge exhaust despite regular cleaning and jet changes, subsequent smell entering van through poorly sealed fridge, slight blackening to underside of the kettle. Didn't matter what state of fill the gasit bottles where at, or from where the gas came from.

Last thing to change was the bulkhead regulator...original was date stamped 2005, and I think the recommendation is to change them at 12 years, so installed a new one...all now working as it should.

In my instance I think the regulator had started to fail, and exhibited that by over pressurising.

 

regards

allen

[Derek Uzzell]

A few comments...

 

1: Barry mentions fitting “a new 37m Butane regulator”, but It’s to be expected that a common-or-garden 6kg Calor bottle will hold propane gas and, if a UK-norm ‘on-bottle’ regulator is attached to the bottle, that regulator will be a 37mbar type with a male POL connector. (example in attached photo). A butane regulator suitable for directly attaching to a Calor bottle will have a 28mbar regulated pressure and have either a ’clip-on’ or female ’screw-on’ connector.

 

2: The orange-coloured hose that is often used between a regulator and a leisure-vehicle’s metal gas pipework is ‘high pressure’ type even though it will be on the low-pressure side of the regulator. As Keith has said, Calor suggests a normal useful service life of 5 years.

 

The black ‘low pressure’ hose that was historically used between a regulator and a leisure-vehicle’s metal gas pipework was usually changed annually when the vehicle had a habitation service: DIY-servicers tended to do likewise.

 

3: If there is a recommendation that a gas regulator (on-bottle or bulkhead-mounted) be replaced after a set time period, I’ve never come across it. Bulkhead-mounted regulators tend to be 2-stage so that, if one regulation stage fails, the other stage will prevent the leisure-vehicle’s gas system being subjected to full gas-bottle pressure. The usual symptom suggesting that a bulkhead-mounted regulator may be on the way out is a significant reduction in gas-flow at the gas appliances - essentially vaporised gas is leaving the regulator at the correct pressure, but the quantity of gas able to pass through the regulator is being restricted.

 

4: A potential snag with a user-refillable gas bottle is that (unlike the ‘exchange’ bottle-type) the bottle may never be fully emptied and cleaned internally. So any contaminants in the LPG that’s put into a user-refillable gas bottle are likely to stay within the bottle indefinitely and build up over time (and exactly the same for under-chassis LPG tanks). There have been plenty of warnings from the manufacturers of leisure-vehicle gas appliances (fridges, heaters, etc.) regarding the unpredictability of the ‘cleanliness’ of the systems used to deliver autogas fuel. Regarding ‘purging’ a user-refillable gas bottle, realistically the best a user can do is occasionally run the bottle empty, remove it from the leisure vehicle, invert it, open its outlet valve and let whatever is inside the bottle drain out.

[Barryd999]

wints - 2018-08-06 11:18 PM

 

Similar probs over the last 18 months...sooting at fridge exhaust despite regular cleaning and jet changes, subsequent smell entering van through poorly sealed fridge, slight blackening to underside of the kettle. Didn't matter what state of fill the gasit bottles where at, or from where the gas came from.

Last thing to change was the bulkhead regulator...original was date stamped 2005, and I think the recommendation is to change them at 12 years, so installed a new one...all now working as it should.

In my instance I think the regulator had started to fail, and exhibited that by over pressurising.

 

regards

allen

 

I did wonder if it was the regulator but I don't know what they do and ours is the one attached to the bottle. However since swapping to the calor and a new regulator there is no smell.

[Paul-]

We order a new propane for our house cooker when it starts smelling, with the caravan we just get ready to change when it smells.

As for the low pressure gas pipe, years ago black was changed at each service as the LPG leached the plasticises from the pipe and made it prone to split/crack.

 

With newer type low pressure pipe its now recommended that it should be changed (both black and orange) at around 5 years or earlier if it looks iffy. Its also a recommendation that bottle mounted regulators should be changed at around 5 years.

 

I think the OPs problem was from a failing regulator, but it wouldn't hurt to get the fridge serviced and properly room sealed as a precaution. I would also recommend that a new carbon monoxide detector is fitted as they also have a limited lifespan.

 

 

[Barryd999]

Derek Uzzell - 2018-08-07 8:06 AM

 

A few comments...

 

1: Barry mentions fitting “a new 37m Butane regulator”, but It’s to be expected that a common-or-garden 6kg Calor bottle will hold propane gas and, if a UK-norm ‘on-bottle’ regulator is attached to the bottle, that regulator will be a 37mbar type with a male POL connector. (example in attached photo). A butane regulator suitable for directly attaching to a Calor bottle will have a 28mbar regulated pressure and have either a ’clip-on’ or female ’screw-on’ connector.

 

2: The orange-coloured hose that is often used between a regulator and a leisure-vehicle’s metal gas pipework is ‘high pressure’ type even though it will be on the low-pressure side of the regulator. As Keith has said, Calor suggests a normal useful service life of 5 years.

 

The black ‘low pressure’ hose that was historically used between a regulator and a leisure-vehicle’s metal gas pipework was usually changed annually when the vehicle had a habitation service: DIY-servicers tended to do likewise.

 

3: If there is a recommendation that a gas regulator (on-bottle or bulkhead-mounted) be replaced after a set time period, I’ve never come across it. Bulkhead-mounted regulators tend to be 2-stage so that, if one regulation stage fails, the other stage will prevent the leisure-vehicle’s gas system being subjected to full gas-bottle pressure. The usual symptom suggesting that a bulkhead-mounted regulator may be on the way out is a significant reduction in gas-flow at the gas appliances - essentially vaporised gas is leaving the regulator at the correct pressure, but the quantity of gas able to pass through the regulator is being restricted.

 

4: A potential snag with a user-refillable gas bottle is that (unlike the ‘exchange’ bottle-type) the bottle may never be fully emptied and cleaned internally. So any contaminants in the LPG that’s put into a user-refillable gas bottle are likely to stay within the bottle indefinitely and build up over time (and exactly the same for under-chassis LPG tanks). There have been plenty of warnings from the manufacturers of leisure-vehicle gas appliances (fridges, heaters, etc.) regarding the unpredictability of the ‘cleanliness’ of the systems used to deliver autogas fuel. Regarding ‘purging’ a user-refillable gas bottle, realistically the best a user can do is occasionally run the bottle empty, remove it from the leisure vehicle, invert it, open its outlet valve and let whatever is inside the bottle drain out.

 

Thanks Derek. Our posts crossed. That's the regulator I have in your picture and the calor bottle is red. I thought that was butane but I always get them mixed up. I know it's the blue ones to avoid in winter

 

No doubt this calor will run out soon so when it does I'll swap back to the gaslow, finish off whatever is left it it then try and empty it. Assuming I can get the fittings off.