StuartO Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I don't think it's the faux pas of the century and I think the idea of expelling Boris from the Tory Party for his choice of words (and/or for sticking to them) but if he wanted to influence serious discussion of the idea of banning burkas, his choice of words was clearly not very clever - and does suggest that he was choosing them for an effect unrelated to the topic.There is nothing objectionable in my eyes, about people wearing religious badges or dressing in a way which broadcasts their religious affiliation if they wish - unless it conflicts with any other law. And it has been part of British law for a long long time that you may not wear a disguise in public (i.e. you may not obscure your identity) and that if a policeman tells you to remove your disguise you must do so. This law was passed to prevent the use of disguise in pursuit of criminal behaviour and there is obvious public interest in maintaining it. A burka hides identity, so there is a conflict with this ancient law about wearing a disguise. I don't think that a religious motivation for wearing a disguise should make it legal to do so and a police officer should still have the authority to tell someone to remove the disguise, even if it is a burka. There have been cases of burkas being used as disguises in the course of crimes so why not?Problems arise for police officers because lots of religious getups might amount to an effective disguise, whether or not they involve a veil or mask on the face. A false beard, false curly sideburns and the right sort of black hat and clothes and in some parts of London you become invisible in the crowd. Likewise wearing clerical gear, especially a fancy outfit like a cardinal's gear, would distract from noticing what your face looks like. But discretion lies with the police officer to tell the individual to identify him or herself and take off any confusing items of apparel or makeup.And Boris introducing irrelevancies like what he thinks burkas look like isn't a useful contribution at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 There is no better lesson than a good example. So maybe the British Establishment could start by getting HM Judges to dress normally? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Load of fuss over a load of nothing and the ones making the fuss wouldn't be doing so if it was anyone other than Boris who'd said it ... It's been very funny watching the usual butt hurt brigade screaming all kinds of stuff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Good ol’ Boris has spoiled what is a legitimate challenge to the practice of covering up women until they are consigned to anonymity and one which reinforces their secondary status as human beings. By all means criticize the male dominant culture that underpins this form of subjugation but do not ridicule the women who are subjected to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Boris just said what lots of people think and say and it's more that the media tripe hounds jumped on it because it was Boris that said it rather than it was the wrong thing to say. When in Rome, as the saying goes, and if people want to wear a disguise there are plenty of countries that they will feel at home in if they are unwilling to become a full UK citizen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 He's not said anything that we haven't heard lots of times before - so I can only think it's Johnsons ' enemies ' that are making the most fuss. Bit of a storm in a teacup as I see it. Probably best if our politicians don't say things like that though. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 4:38 PM Good ol’ Boris has spoiled what is a legitimate challenge to the practice of covering up women until they are consigned to anonymity and one which reinforces their secondary status as human beings. By all means criticize the male dominant culture that underpins this form of subjugation but do not ridicule the women who are subjected to it. On the other hand it seems that there is no way that men will change their ways so anything that irritates enough to empower women to fight for their own rights to dress freely in a free country could be seen as a good move. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Tracker - 2018-08-08 4:57 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 4:38 PM Good ol’ Boris has spoiled what is a legitimate challenge to the practice of covering up women until they are consigned to anonymity and one which reinforces their secondary status as human beings. By all means criticize the male dominant culture that underpins this form of subjugation but do not ridicule the women who are subjected to it. On the other hand it seems that there is no way that men will change their ways so anything that irritates enough to empower women to fight for their own rights to dress freely in a free country could be seen as a good move. If only those women enjoyed the same power that the men enjoy Rich. By ridiculing them he has done nothing to empower them at all in my view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 If you hear what he actually said and not the media selected precis I thought he was ridiculing their costume and constraints in a free society not the women themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 5:17 PM Tracker - 2018-08-08 4:57 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 4:38 PM Good ol’ Boris has spoiled what is a legitimate challenge to the practice of covering up women until they are consigned to anonymity and one which reinforces their secondary status as human beings. By all means criticize the male dominant culture that underpins this form of subjugation but do not ridicule the women who are subjected to it. On the other hand it seems that there is no way that men will change their ways so anything that irritates enough to empower women to fight for their own rights to dress freely in a free country could be seen as a good move. If only those women enjoyed the same power that the men enjoy Rich. By ridiculing them he has done nothing to empower them at all in my view. As I understand it, many of the women choose to cover their faces, so it's not all down to dominant men. (?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Tracker - 2018-08-08 5:29 PM If you hear what he actually said and not the media selected precis I thought he was ridiculing their costume and constraints in a free society not the women themselves. I think you have a point. Of course, there is a tendency in the media to take things out of context in order to sensationalise the episode. Boris should know this well as a media pundit. He should take more care over every phrase he utters. He knows well that the most sensational will reach the headlines. Just put yourself in the place of a woman who wears a burka by choice or by compunction. Would you feel confident that you could walk out of your house without fear of someone shouting that you look like a letterbox? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 5:44 PM Would you feel confident that you could walk out of your house without fear of someone shouting that you look like a letterbox? Probably not, but then again in a free country where other women do not wear a burqa would they not feel a lack of confidence anyway. Boris knows that any publicity is good publicity and keeps him in the public eye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Ive not heard a word against the males that force these women in most cases to wear the burka ... Strange that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 malc d - 2018-08-08 5:41 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 5:17 PM Tracker - 2018-08-08 4:57 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 4:38 PM Good ol’ Boris has spoiled what is a legitimate challenge to the practice of covering up women until they are consigned to anonymity and one which reinforces their secondary status as human beings. By all means criticize the male dominant culture that underpins this form of subjugation but do not ridicule the women who are subjected to it. On the other hand it seems that there is no way that men will change their ways so anything that irritates enough to empower women to fight for their own rights to dress freely in a free country could be seen as a good move. If only those women enjoyed the same power that the men enjoy Rich. By ridiculing them he has done nothing to empower them at all in my view. As I understand it, many of the women choose to cover their faces, so it's not all down to dominant men. (?) Is that "choice" free of the restraints that are imposed by men who have been able to impose their will on the physically weaker sex for centuries? There is a reason why the backward cultures seek to impose restrictions on the education of women and girls. It is because intellectual strength has become far more important in the modern world than physical dominance and the men in those communities stand to lose their power over women. Would that we could all give up those power games and achieve equality between the sexes whilst retaining our unique and most desirable differences. The survival of the species depends on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 antony1969 - 2018-08-08 6:03 PM Ive not heard a word against the males that force these women in most cases to wear the burka ... Strange that Well said Antony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 malc d - 2018-08-08 5:41 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 5:17 PM Tracker - 2018-08-08 4:57 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 4:38 PM Good ol’ Boris has spoiled what is a legitimate challenge to the practice of covering up women until they are consigned to anonymity and one which reinforces their secondary status as human beings. By all means criticize the male dominant culture that underpins this form of subjugation but do not ridicule the women who are subjected to it. On the other hand it seems that there is no way that men will change their ways so anything that irritates enough to empower women to fight for their own rights to dress freely in a free country could be seen as a good move. If only those women enjoyed the same power that the men enjoy Rich. By ridiculing them he has done nothing to empower them at all in my view. As I understand it, many of the women choose to cover their faces, so it's not all down to dominant men. (?) I'm not sure about the older 'traditional' type of women but with the younger ones, particularly teenage, i get the impression they do it as a form of rebellion against 'the norm'. Bit like teenage youth in my day grew long hair......because we wanted to be 'different' plus we also knew it annoyed the heck out of the older generation and society who we saw as boring old farts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 malc d - 2018-08-08 5:41 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 5:17 PM Tracker - 2018-08-08 4:57 PM Violet1956 - 2018-08-08 4:38 PM Good ol’ Boris has spoiled what is a legitimate challenge to the practice of covering up women until they are consigned to anonymity and one which reinforces their secondary status as human beings. By all means criticize the male dominant culture that underpins this form of subjugation but do not ridicule the women who are subjected to it. On the other hand it seems that there is no way that men will change their ways so anything that irritates enough to empower women to fight for their own rights to dress freely in a free country could be seen as a good move. If only those women enjoyed the same power that the men enjoy Rich. By ridiculing them he has done nothing to empower them at all in my view. As I understand it, many of the women choose to cover their faces, so it's not all down to dominant men. (?) That's the power of brain washing ;-) ............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 I have been led to believe that face covering is not an Islam demand, and if you visit Mecca you have to have your face uncovered . Is that true ? and did men insist that women cover up.? I suspect that a lot of women that choose to cover their faces do so to annoy us. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Its a shame those whingeing about the comments dont whinge about for the probable millions of Muslim women forced to wear the burka and Hijab either by law or males ... Its not an item of clothing its a form of imprisonment ... Disgraceful Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 thebishbus - 2018-08-08 7:00 PM I have been led to believe that face covering is not an Islam demand, and if you visit Mecca you have you have to have your face uncovered . Is that true ? and did men insist that women cover up.? I suspect that a lot of women that choose to cover their faces do so to annoy us. Brian B. Not a demand by Islam ... The burka has little to do with Islam but it is a way Muslim males control/dominate Muslim women ... Young pre-pubescent females are forced to cover up which sexualises the girls from a young age ... Disgraceful ... I cant imagine why any female would want to wear that pathetic outfit to "annoy us" maybe you can explain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 This Islamic discussion about letting their sister work late is interesting ... ... We ought to be helping these women , helping brave Muslim women in Iran and Iraq protesting the hijab ... Where are the women rights lot ??? Where are the screaming pussy brigade ??? ... I think I know why they dont step in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Boris is just trying to become the UK Trump. Get all the purple people onside first by becoming outrageous and a bit racist then make a leadership bid. I happen to agree with him and most of whats been said on here but he is a self serving career polly and knows exactly what he is doing. How long before he suggests rebuilding Hadrians wall? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
candapack Posted August 8, 2018 Share Posted August 8, 2018 Stolen from Twitter; Suits.jpg_large Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 Barryd999 - 2018-08-08 8:06 PM Boris is just trying to become the UK Trump. Get all the purple people onside first by becoming outrageous and a bit racist then make a leadership bid. I happen to agree with him and most of whats been said on here but he is a self serving career polly and knows exactly what he is doing. How long before he suggests rebuilding Hadrians wall? What did he say that was racist ??? ... Racist towards a religion ??? Daft white women wear the hijab and burka so cant be anything to do with colour ??? He never mentioned any nationality so what d'ya mean and actually a point your forgetting conveniently to mention is that he was defending the right to wear the silly things ... Was your Brexit hero "career polly" Ken Clarke racist when he described the burka like wearing a kind of bag ??? Was he saying it because he wanted to make a "leadership bid" ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted August 9, 2018 Share Posted August 9, 2018 F1 grid girls are offensive ... Darts walk on girls are offensive etc but mention the burka and youve had it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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