malc d Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-10 5:09 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 4:56 PMBulletguy - 2018-11-10 4:18 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 9:42 AMStuartO - 2018-11-10 9:21 AMPresident Macron's public urging of his EU colleagues to form an EU Army so the EU can resist among other nations the USA has, unsurprisingly, attracted contemptuous disapproval from President Trump in the run up to the latter's visit to France in connection with the centenary of the end of WW1 - which of course was brought to a close with the considerable assistance of the USA. Same again with WW2 of course.Little man syndrome?Well, in view of Trumps plans to " punish " countries ( including Europeans ) who don't fall in line with HIS policies on Iran - it's not really surprising that Macron would say something like that.That's just politics. :-|Geography has never been one of Trumps strong points (not that he has any other than a big gob) so it's questionable if he even knows where Iran is!! He's so unhinged he's even been claiming the "caravan" of Central Americans about to "invade", are people from the Middle East! *-)I saw a clip of Fox news where one of their "experts " said that some of the immigrants from South America were bringing smallpox.As Trump relies on Fox for his " facts " you can quite see why he is panicking.( Note : experts on " real world " channels quickly pointed out that smallpox was eradicated from the world in 1978 ).So was Rickets apparently in the UK *-) ........https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/23/poorer-children-disproportionately-need-hospital-treatmentSmallpox is caused by infectious virus - very contagious I believe - which was very difficult to eliminate, but that was achieved world wide by medical science. Rickets is not contagious - is due mainly to a lack of vitamins - quite easy to eliminate, but that is unlikely and has been said to be caused by politicians. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 malc d - 2018-11-10 7:54 PMpelmetman - 2018-11-10 5:09 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 4:56 PMBulletguy - 2018-11-10 4:18 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 9:42 AMStuartO - 2018-11-10 9:21 AMPresident Macron's public urging of his EU colleagues to form an EU Army so the EU can resist among other nations the USA has, unsurprisingly, attracted contemptuous disapproval from President Trump in the run up to the latter's visit to France in connection with the centenary of the end of WW1 - which of course was brought to a close with the considerable assistance of the USA. Same again with WW2 of course.Little man syndrome?Well, in view of Trumps plans to " punish " countries ( including Europeans ) who don't fall in line with HIS policies on Iran - it's not really surprising that Macron would say something like that.That's just politics. :-|Geography has never been one of Trumps strong points (not that he has any other than a big gob) so it's questionable if he even knows where Iran is!! He's so unhinged he's even been claiming the "caravan" of Central Americans about to "invade", are people from the Middle East! *-)I saw a clip of Fox news where one of their "experts " said that some of the immigrants from South America were bringing smallpox.As Trump relies on Fox for his " facts " you can quite see why he is panicking.( Note : experts on " real world " channels quickly pointed out that smallpox was eradicated from the world in 1978 ).So was Rickets apparently in the UK *-) ........https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/23/poorer-children-disproportionately-need-hospital-treatmentSmallpox is caused by infectious virus - very contagious I believe - which was very difficult to eliminate, but that was achieved world wide by medical science. Rickets is not contagious - is due mainly to a lack of vitamins - quite easy to eliminate, but that is unlikely and has been said to be caused by politicians. ;-)So we should have open doors? ;-) .........You seem to have all the proper questions Malc :-| ........But I've yet to see you come up with a proper answer :-| ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-10 5:09 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 4:56 PMBulletguy - 2018-11-10 4:18 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 9:42 AMStuartO - 2018-11-10 9:21 AMPresident Macron's public urging of his EU colleagues to form an EU Army so the EU can resist among other nations the USA has, unsurprisingly, attracted contemptuous disapproval from President Trump in the run up to the latter's visit to France in connection with the centenary of the end of WW1 - which of course was brought to a close with the considerable assistance of the USA. Same again with WW2 of course.Little man syndrome?Well, in view of Trumps plans to " punish " countries ( including Europeans ) who don't fall in line with HIS policies on Iran - it's not really surprising that Macron would say something like that.That's just politics. :-|Geography has never been one of Trumps strong points (not that he has any other than a big gob) so it's questionable if he even knows where Iran is!! He's so unhinged he's even been claiming the "caravan" of Central Americans about to "invade", are people from the Middle East! *-)I saw a clip of Fox news where one of their "experts " said that some of the immigrants from South America were bringing smallpox.As Trump relies on Fox for his " facts " you can quite see why he is panicking.( Note : experts on " real world " channels quickly pointed out that smallpox was eradicated from the world in 1978 ).So was Rickets apparently in the UK *-) ........https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/dec/23/poorer-children-disproportionately-need-hospital-treatmentYou really should read your own links before posting as you inevitably end up scoring an own goal."It comes as no surprise to senior doctors such as Roland that deprivation is playing a part in poor children appearing at hospital more often than their richer counterparts. A housing crisis and state spending squeezed, things will get worse before they get better – while stagnant wages are heaping pressure on families less able to cope. The poorest young people are now well over twice as likely to be admitted for the condition as the rich. Medical experts say that environment, and above all poor housing, is a prime cause.“What we see on a weekly basis is that poorer families who come in often take their children into hospital a bit later than they otherwise would. Maybe that’s partly down to health literacy, but – and I’ve spoke to parents about this – it is a struggle for them to bring children in. If your ability to make a living is on the line, your threshold for taking time off work to check a child’s health is going to be higher.”The pressures of that poverty on families, Dr Cheung says, are becoming tragically clear. “A few months ago we had discussions with social services about whether a child was being cared for properly,” he recalls. “But it just turned out that the mother was working two jobs, she had two other children and was simply under pressure not to take more time off to go to an asthma appointment.It’s about the fact that a quarter of the children in this country live in material poverty.Common denominator? Shameful inexcusable poverty caused by a government that takes from the poor to benefit the rich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-10 5:14 PMBulletguy - 2018-11-10 5:01 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 4:56 PMBulletguy - 2018-11-10 4:18 PMmalc d - 2018-11-10 9:42 AMStuartO - 2018-11-10 9:21 AMPresident Macron's public urging of his EU colleagues to form an EU Army so the EU can resist among other nations the USA has, unsurprisingly, attracted contemptuous disapproval from President Trump in the run up to the latter's visit to France in connection with the centenary of the end of WW1 - which of course was brought to a close with the considerable assistance of the USA. Same again with WW2 of course.Little man syndrome?Well, in view of Trumps plans to " punish " countries ( including Europeans ) who don't fall in line with HIS policies on Iran - it's not really surprising that Macron would say something like that.That's just politics. :-|Geography has never been one of Trumps strong points (not that he has any other than a big gob) so it's questionable if he even knows where Iran is!! He's so unhinged he's even been claiming the "caravan" of Central Americans about to "invade", are people from the Middle East! *-)I saw a clip of Fox news where one of their "experts " said that some of the immigrants from South America were bringing smallpox.As Trump relies on Fox for his " facts " you can quite see why he is panicking.( Note : experts on " real world " channels quickly pointed out that smallpox was eradicated from the world in 1978 ).He needs sectioning.Oh how you Socialists hate us realists >:-) .........But carry on defending the indefensible Bullet :D ......I'm more than happy to p*ss on your parade ;-) ........Who on earth is the "indefensible" you're babbling on about that i've supposedly been "defending"? :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 10, 2018 Share Posted November 10, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-11-10 8:46 PM Common denominator? Shameful inexcusable poverty caused by a government that takes from the poor to benefit the rich. You mean like Putin? ;-) .......Comrade :D ....... "Levels of poverty may be significantly lower than before, but Russia is still above the average for many of the world's biggest economies." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43210257 Just p*ssin on your parade.......again >:-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-10 8:54 PM Bulletguy - 2018-11-10 8:46 PM Common denominator? Shameful inexcusable poverty caused by a government that takes from the poor to benefit the rich. You mean like Putin? ;-) .......Comrade :D ....... "Levels of poverty may be significantly lower than before, but Russia is still above the average for many of the world's biggest economies." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43210257 WTF???? You post a link in a frantic attempt to counter Malcs post, but only read the headline which you think "ah that sounds good", so post without comprehending the content.....because you never read it!! *-) *-) I read it, quote it, bold the parts you should take note of......but you don't like that so dig out something about bloody Russia!!! *-) *-) May as well post up a weather report or recipe as that has about as much relevance as your nonsensical veering off topic when you can't debate a point properly. *-) *-) Just p*ssin on your parade.......again >:-) ......... As i pointed out on another thread, the only 'parade' you've been piss*n is your own......undoubtedly because you've been back on the bottle all day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:53 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-10 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:11 PM...………………...That's your fabulous EU your slagging off Brian :D ....... Not fabulous, flawed, but better to be a part of than not. This idea is just that, an idea, and I think it is nuts for the reason given. Who would be authorised to give the order to attack? All 27? I mean! :-D The trouble with EU flaws.......they become laws *-) .......... OK gimme an example. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-10 8:54 PM "Levels of poverty may be significantly lower than before, but Russia is still above the average for many of the world's biggest economies." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43210257 I see that the United Nations are sending someone to investigate poverty in the U.K. That's a unique development I should think as we are supposed to be such a " rich country " :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 StuartO - 2018-11-10 6:26 PM.....................The EUkeenies, which include Macron, are aiming for a Federal Europe are they not (ever closer union?) so that would include an EU Army etc and the President of the EU (currently Tusk rather than Junkers) would have to be Commander in Chief? .............. Apologies for changed title. Bit late responding on this, but the idea seems to worry many. I've come across this from Full Fact, and thought it gave quite a good explanation. http://tinyurl.com/yd9fsrsv Obviously it is a phrase that is open to interpretation, but it seems helpful to arrive at that interpretation with the historical context in mind. Beyond that, as in the case of European armed forces, how could this come about? Where does this fear of becoming federalised arise? How could this arise? What coercion could be deployed to force a country that rejected being federalised, into becoming so? Join us... or what, exactly? Leave? But we can already leave. Be expelled? Which treaty grants the power to do that? As the Full Fact piece points out, we have in any case already signed up to closer integration several times through various of the treaties, starting with the Treaty of Rome. Was this, in reality, ever any more than a phantom fear, through which dedicated Brexiters sought to coerce the electorate into voting leave? In short, a federal bogey man, aimed at buoying-up the willing, while rattling the mildly paranoid? To quote my mate Dave, just askin'. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 malc d - 2018-11-11 11:44 AM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 8:54 PM "Levels of poverty may be significantly lower than before, but Russia is still above the average for many of the world's biggest economies." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-43210257 I see that the United Nations are sending someone to investigate poverty in the U.K. That's a unique development I should think as we are supposed to be such a " rich country " :-| It doesn't surprise me Malc. The disparity between rich and poor is a vast ever widening chasm. Pelmet inadvertently linked to this when trying his usual whataboutery with Rickets....only he didn't read the article which explained one of the main causations...poverty. An ONS report found Britain wealthiest 1% own as much as the poorest 55%....and that was taken four years ago so the gap will be even wider now. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2014/may/15/britains-richest-1-percent-own-same-as-bottom-55-population Hammond widened this gap by handing out tax breaks which the wealthy will benefit from far in excess to that of the less well off, not to mention slashing welfare. So it's taking from the poor to 'feed' the rich which has long been standard Tory policy. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/oct/30/budget-income-tax-cuts-to-overwhelmingly-benefit-the-rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StuartO Posted November 11, 2018 Author Share Posted November 11, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-11 12:13 PMStuartO - 2018-11-10 6:26 PM.....................The EUkeenies, which include Macron, are aiming for a Federal Europe are they not (ever closer union?) so that would include an EU Army etc and the President of the EU (currently Tusk rather than Junkers) would have to be Commander in Chief? ..............Apologies for changed title. Bit late responding on this, but the idea seems to worry many. I've come across this from Full Fact, and thought it gave quite a good explanation. http://tinyurl.com/yd9fsrsvObviously it is a phrase that is open to interpretation, but it seems helpful to arrive at that interpretation with the historical context in mind.Beyond that, as in the case of European armed forces, how could this come about? Where does this fear of becoming federalised arise? How could this arise? What coercion could be deployed to force a country that rejected being federalised, into becoming so? Join us... or what, exactly? Leave? But we can already leave. Be expelled? Which treaty grants the power to do that? As the Full Fact piece points out, we have in any case already signed up to closer integration several times through various of the treaties, starting with the Treaty of Rome. Was this, in reality, ever any more than a phantom fear, through which dedicated Brexiters sought to coerce the electorate into voting leave? In short, a federal bogey man, aimed at buoying-up the willing, while rattling the mildly paranoid?To quote my mate Dave, just askin'. :-D Spoken like a true Remoaner Brian! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Interesting observations from a non participant - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-36637554 https://briefingsforbrexit.com/looking-beyond-brexit-a-view-from-australia-by-the-hon-john-howard/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 StuartO - 2018-11-11 3:56 PM.................Spoken like a true Remoaner Brian! And replied to like a true Brexiter, Stuart! :-) I was hoping you'd explain how the EU could coerce the UK into a European federation if we don't want to join. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-11 4:53 PM StuartO - 2018-11-11 3:56 PM.................Spoken like a true Remoaner Brian! And replied to like a true Brexiter, Stuart! :-) I was hoping you'd explain how the EU could coerce the UK into a European federation if we don't want to join. Join an EU Federation or not Brian, as long as we contribute into the EU budget we would be paying towards the overall cost of whatever the EU decides is in it's own interests. I can see a lot of advantages of being in an EEC but very few in being in an EU given the way it seems to be heading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Not sure I understand you, Rich. You say "we would be paying towards the overall cost of whatever the EU decides is in it's own interests". What are "its interests", as distinct from those of the 28 current member states? Its members are all sovereign states, its staff are drawn from those states, its decisions are made by MEPs elected from those states, and/or by the ministers or prime ministers of those states. I don't see where the EU as an institution has an interest that is, or is likely to be, in conflict with the interests of its member states. If it came to a clash between the Commission and the member states, the Commission has to do as it is told. Were it a clash between one state and all (or a clear majority of) the others, that state can request a "derogation" from whatever, or accept that it is outvoted and decide whether to go along with the majority, or pull out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-11 5:45 PM Not sure I understand you, Rich. You say "we would be paying towards the overall cost of whatever the EU decides is in it's own interests". What are "its interests", as distinct from those of the 28 current member states? Its members are all sovereign states, its staff are drawn from those states, its decisions are made by MEPs elected from those states, and/or by the ministers or prime ministers of those states. I don't see where the EU as an institution has an interest that is, or is likely to be, in conflict with the interests of its member states. If it came to a clash between the Commission and the member states, the Commission has to do as it is told. Were it a clash between one state and all (or a clear majority of) the others, that state can request a "derogation" from whatever, or accept that it is outvoted and decide whether to go along with the majority, or pull out. I am no expert Brian but it seems to me that whatever the EU budget is, all of the member states contribute into it? In which case whatever the EU Commission or Parliament decides it wants to do, be it bigger pensions for it's staff, it's own army, creation of a United States of Europe or whatever as long as it is within the budget everyone pays for it whether they wish to participate or not. Whether anything that the EU decides for itself is also best for the EU is also best for each individual member state may well be open to each member state to decide, but whatever they decide if the scheme is in the budget then they contribute to the cost whther they want it or not. Am I wrong? I appreciate it was started in jest, but I do not agree with any form of retribution, these countries are our friends and our neighbours and having met a good cross section of people from many EU countries over the years they are usually kind and helpful and generally good company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Tracker - 2018-11-11 4:04 PM Interesting observations from a non participant - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-36637554 https://briefingsforbrexit.com/looking-beyond-brexit-a-view-from-australia-by-the-hon-john-howard/ I’ve read the articles Rich. I don’t think there is anything we can learn from the Aussies on how to manage our migration or our relationships with other countries. Our situation is so completely different from that in Australia. I respect their democratic choices over how they manage their borders and their economy but we are not comparing like for like here. One example springs to mind. Mrs Thatcher made a terrible mistake when she decided to take child maintenance away from the courts and supplant it with the Child Support Agency based on the Australian model. The resultant disaster left some single parents in abject poverty by introducing a toothless minefield of red tape that was never going to be fit for purpose. As for a points based immigration system, we have one already in the UK and the net migration figures have shown that it is no panacea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-10 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:11 PM...………………...That's your fabulous EU your slagging off Brian :D ....... Not fabulous, flawed, but better to be a part of than not. This idea is just that, an idea, and I think it is nuts for the reason given. Who would be authorised to give the order to attack? All 27? I mean! :-D For information on who would be able to authorize action just type eums into google another worrying organisation can be found looking at eurocorps.org just 8 of the 27 countries also Turkey as a military group just finished exercising in Mali why? it's in central Africa not in the EU. Not a criticism Brian just a pointer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 Violet1956 - 2018-11-11 6:43 PM Tracker - 2018-11-11 4:04 PM Interesting observations from a non participant - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-australia-36637554 https://briefingsforbrexit.com/looking-beyond-brexit-a-view-from-australia-by-the-hon-john-howard/ I’ve read the articles Rich. I don’t think there is anything we can learn from the Aussies on how to manage our migration or our relationships with other countries. Our situation is so completely different from that in Australia. I respect their democratic choices over how they manage their borders and their economy but we are not comparing like for like here. Australia's human rights record on migrants is appalling where they're banished to a detention prison on an island where many abuses have taken place. It's not something i could applaud and hold up as 'a model' example of how to manage migration and we all know what May's creation of her evil "hostile environment" resulted in too. https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2016/oct/17/australian-immigration-regime-on-nauru-an-open-air-prison-and-akin-to-torture-says-amnesty https://edition.cnn.com/2018/06/19/opinions/australia-manus-refugee-opinion-intl/index.html Our own detention centres don't fare much better and as far as i'm aware are the few places people can be detained and held without any trial. Something which harks back to the dark ages and i never thought possible in 'modern' day UK. The number of suicides in detention centres are kept 'state secret' which a former prison Ombudsman found “odd and frankly self-defeating” that the department did not make the numbers of detainee deaths public. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/immigration-detention-centres-uk-suicides-prison-deaths-home-office-a8533366.html One example springs to mind. Mrs Thatcher made a terrible mistake when she decided to take child maintenance away from the courts and supplant it with the Child Support Agency based on the Australian model. The resultant disaster left some single parents in abject poverty by introducing a toothless minefield of red tape that was never going to be fit for purpose. As for a points based immigration system, we have one already in the UK and the net migration figures have shown that it is no panacea. Not to mention the many it drove to taking their own life. Government has blood on it's hands from this evil concept, prior to which the Family Court worked perfectly, fairly and above all, with plain common sense. The CSA is a prime example of target driven lunacy. Thatcher wanted errant non-paying fathers chased up and made to pay. Admirable.....but the CSA were given 'targets' to reach because the bottom line was it's a government money machine and government want results as well as money. The CSA struggled to chase up the non-payers so seized all court records and went for the 'soft option'....those that were documented as regular payers and whacked them with impossible demands. FOI requests to the CSA over suicide numbers pretty much get stonewalled as unbelievably they are not required to record deaths. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/jun/04/father-suicide-demands-child-support-agency-inquest They even have an annual gala fest where they hand out awards. :-( http://www.chesterbugle.co.uk/2018/01/08/csa-employee-commended-causing-father-suicides/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 11, 2018 Share Posted November 11, 2018 teflon2 - 2018-11-11 6:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-10 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:11 PM...………………...That's your fabulous EU your slagging off Brian :D ....... Not fabulous, flawed, but better to be a part of than not. This idea is just that, an idea, and I think it is nuts for the reason given. Who would be authorised to give the order to attack? All 27? I mean! :-D For information on who would be able to authorize action just type eums into google another worrying organisation can be found looking at eurocorps.org just 8 of the 27 countries also Turkey as a military group just finished exercising in Mali why? it's in central Africa not in the EU. Not a criticism Brian just a pointer. Not sure what you find 'worrying' about https://www.eurocorps.org/ :-S My sons first deployment on passing out in forces training was to Canada for further exercises. UK troops have exercised there for years and we have a massive base there.....but Canada isn't an EU country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 teflon2 - 2018-11-11 6:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-10 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:11 PM...………………...That's your fabulous EU your slagging off Brian :D ....... Not fabulous, flawed, but better to be a part of than not. This idea is just that, an idea, and I think it is nuts for the reason given. Who would be authorised to give the order to attack? All 27? I mean! :-D For information on who would be able to authorize action just type eums into google another worrying organisation can be found looking at eurocorps.org just 8 of the 27 countries also Turkey as a military group just finished exercising in Mali why? it's in central Africa not in the EU. Not a criticism Brian just a pointer. Interesting, as I hadn't head of them at all. Oddly, I couldn't see where they actually get their authorisations. It is a NATO type organisation, with forces contributed from a number of EU countries. In democracies, the military usually marches to the tune of the government of the day. In this case, I haven't been able to find out who exercises that final power to order it troops to commit. This is what renders NATO forces largely impotent: an international committee has to agree what instruction should be given, and the individual member states decide what forces they are prepared to commit. Fine if you're playing at International Rescue (i.e. Thunderbirds), but not, I think, much use as a defence force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 Bulletguy - 2018-11-11 9:12 PM teflon2 - 2018-11-11 6:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-10 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:11 PM...………………...That's your fabulous EU your slagging off Brian :D ....... Not fabulous, flawed, but better to be a part of than not. This idea is just that, an idea, and I think it is nuts for the reason given. Who would be authorised to give the order to attack? All 27? I mean! :-D For information on who would be able to authorize action just type eums into google another worrying organisation can be found looking at eurocorps.org just 8 of the 27 countries also Turkey as a military group just finished exercising in Mali why? it's in central Africa not in the EU. Not a criticism Brian just a pointer. Not sure what you find 'worrying' about https://www.eurocorps.org/ :-S My sons first deployment on passing out in forces training was to Canada for further exercises. UK troops have exercised there for years and we have a massive base there.....but Canada isn't an EU country. The point that slightly over 25% of the EU countries have created a military force to protect the EU borders and "internal!" security and they also have Turkey as a member a country not only outside the EU but with a dreadful human rights record. I think the facts speak volumes. But maybe that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted November 12, 2018 Share Posted November 12, 2018 teflon2 - 2018-11-12 5:59 PM Bulletguy - 2018-11-11 9:12 PM teflon2 - 2018-11-11 6:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-10 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:11 PM...………………...That's your fabulous EU your slagging off Brian :D ....... Not fabulous, flawed, but better to be a part of than not. This idea is just that, an idea, and I think it is nuts for the reason given. Who would be authorised to give the order to attack? All 27? I mean! :-D For information on who would be able to authorize action just type eums into google another worrying organisation can be found looking at eurocorps.org just 8 of the 27 countries also Turkey as a military group just finished exercising in Mali why? it's in central Africa not in the EU. Not a criticism Brian just a pointer. Not sure what you find 'worrying' about https://www.eurocorps.org/ :-S My sons first deployment on passing out in forces training was to Canada for further exercises. UK troops have exercised there for years and we have a massive base there.....but Canada isn't an EU country. The point that slightly over 25% of the EU countries have created a military force to protect the EU borders and "internal!" security and they also have Turkey as a member a country not only outside the EU but with a dreadful human rights record. I think the facts speak volumes. But maybe that's just me. Yes not an EU member though they are NATO and as US (or more specifically, Trump) wants out of NATO and continually whines about cost etc, it's good to see an "EU military force". If Trump wants to cut US NATO spending the EU can easily help him along with that by telling little rocket man to dismantle and take back all those US rocket bases they parked up in Poland. Set up on the pretext of intercepting Iranian missiles (what missiles you would be right to ask?), when in reality they are there because it's virtually on Russias front doorstep.....a bit like Cuba is to America. Yes Turkeys human rights record isn't exactly brilliant, neither is the US if you take a look and has been internationally criticised but most in the west prefer to turn a blind eye to what is quite a long list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 Brian Kirby - 2018-11-12 3:40 PM teflon2 - 2018-11-11 6:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2018-11-10 6:36 PM pelmetman - 2018-11-10 6:11 PM...………………...That's your fabulous EU your slagging off Brian :D ....... Not fabulous, flawed, but better to be a part of than not. This idea is just that, an idea, and I think it is nuts for the reason given. Who would be authorised to give the order to attack? All 27? I mean! :-D For information on who would be able to authorize action just type eums into google another worrying organisation can be found looking at eurocorps.org just 8 of the 27 countries also Turkey as a military group just finished exercising in Mali why? it's in central Africa not in the EU. Not a criticism Brian just a pointer. Interesting, as I hadn't head of them at all. Oddly, I couldn't see where they actually get their authorisations. It is a NATO type organisation, with forces contributed from a number of EU countries. In democracies, the military usually marches to the tune of the government of the day. In this case, I haven't been able to find out who exercises that final power to order it troops to commit. This is what renders NATO forces largely impotent: an international committee has to agree what instruction should be given, and the individual member states decide what forces they are prepared to commit. Fine if you're playing at International Rescue (i.e. Thunderbirds), but not, I think, much use as a defence force. Prolly useful for invading the next country that has the audacity to Vote Leave >:-) ........ BTW..........Who would be in charge of the EU army?......... The same country Who is in charge of the EU......... Germany 8-) .......... Deja Vu Eh? :-| ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted November 13, 2018 Share Posted November 13, 2018 pelmetman - 2018-11-13 8:36 AM...………………………..BTW..........Who would be in charge of the EU army?......... The same country Who is in charge of the EU......... Germany 8-) .......... Deja Vu Eh? :-| ....... Er, schon gesehen, surely, Dave. :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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