Boxer/Ducato/Relay - Speedometer difficult to read in daylight

[Tracker]

I like the idea of a HUD as I too find it hard in the car to look down to focus on the speedo and back to the road and I had no idea you could get OBD plug ins via Amazon or Ebay.

 

Does anyone have any specific info on makes as like all gizmos I have no doubt that whilst some are great other may be disappointing, and spending more does not always buy you more.

 

This looks good to me as it does not reflect onto the window?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Display-Intelligent-Digital-Driving-Distance/dp/B07G5VH51N/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8&qid=1544110055&sr=8-8&keywords=heads+up+display+car

 

Thanks

[ColinM50]

good to see Lockwood are joining in the chat and hope their business flourishes - always good to see an expert get involved.

 

I have a query. I really like the white dials, but think keeping the fuel and temp gauges as original, i.e. in black, looks a bit crap. So can you supply a kit comprising speedo, rev counter and fuel and temp gauges dials and if so a price would be helpful.

 

If it makes a difference I have a 2017 Eldiss 196 based on Peugeot Boxer. I can take a pic if you need it.

[Tracker]

Lockwood's email and website are on their profile Colin, might be easier to talk direct with them?

[ColinM50]

Appreciate that Tracker but thought giving them the opportunity of widening the info base might be helpful to them. Happy to call them and post their reply?

 

Phoned them but no reply. Will try tomorrow

[Derek Uzzell]

Tracker

 

The link you’ve provided in your posting of 6 December 2018 3:36 PM above refers to a device that uses GPS rather than data from an OBD port. However, there are plenty of HUD devices that plug into the OBD port and some where it's possible to select whether the data used comes from GPS or the OBD port.

 

For the OBD type, you’d need to be sure that the device is compatible with your car and (if buying from Amazon/ebay) it’s certainly worth reading the pros-and-cons reviews.

 

This March 2018 thread discussed such devices and also mentioned displaying OBD-provided information on a phone.

 

There was a ‘DIY' article describing the OBD/phone approach on Pages 183/184 of the October 2018 issue of MMM Magazine, and a GOOGLe-search on “hud speedometer review” will retrieve plenty more stuff. (USA example here)

 

https://10carbest.com/best-hud-for-car#guide

[Tracker]

Thanks Derek, my apologies I got confused.

A GPS HUD does not appeal to me!!

[Derek Uzzell]

ColinM50 - 2018-12-06 5:25 PM

 

Appreciate that Tracker but thought giving them the opportunity of widening the info base might be helpful to them. Happy to call them and post their reply?

 

Phoned them but no reply. Will try tomorrow

 

I did mention to Lockwood your comment "you'd have thought they'd have changed the fuel and temperature gauge dials for white too” but (as I said above) the decision to leave that display’s background black was based on the same reasoning as leaving the lower section of the speedometer and tachometer dial-face black - it allows the warning symbols/lights to be show up better.

 

Exactly the same dial kits are provided for Boxers as for Ducatos

 

https://www.lockwoodinternational.co.uk/dials/mph/peugeot/a-z/boxer.html

 

and the black-on-white dial-face kit (Part No. 8329) just replaces the original speedometer and tachometer faces.

 

You could, of course, commission Lockwood to produce a black-on-white fuel/temperature display to complement the black-on-white speedometer/tachometer dials (though I suspect Lockwood might advise against it) or you could commission a kit with a black-on-white scale for the speedometer and tachometer with the lower section of both (and the fuel/temperature display) in a tasteful grey colour that would allow the warning symbols/lights to show up reasonably well.

 

As (to the best of my knowledge) Lockwood haven’t created a colour-changed fuel/temperature display, you’d need to anticipate that a one-off bespoke display would not be cheap (Ken Hall paid much more than £55 for Lockwood to provide the black-on-white dial-faces that they now advertise generally).

 

And don’t forget that, although you like the idea of a non-black fuel/temperature display, other people might not. I’ve attached a photo showing the white dial-faces and, personally, I prefer the fuel/temperature display having been left unchanged so that it complements the black lower section of the speedometer and tachometer dials.

[Derek Uzzell]

Regarding the cost of a ‘bespoke’ dial-face for a Boxer/Ducato/Relay, I notice (on the Practical Motorhome forum) that Lockwood has given a guide-price and also commented on why there is currently no ‘white dial’ kit for X290 Ducatos with ComfortMatic transmission

 

https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/forum/tech/2397-boxer-ducato-relay-speedometer-difficult-to-see#9091

[Lockwood]

Hi Everybody,

we are going to start to produce the white dials for the Automatic model in the next few days.

Also you will be pleased to hear that we are going to include the Fuel and Temp' gauge in the set.

Lockwood Int.

[Deneb]

On the face of it (no pun intended!) these dials look to be an improvement in clarity over the standard dials, although I can't say the original dials have troubled me greatly, unlike some.

 

I wonder how they fare with the dashboard illumination though. My X290 has backlit instrument lighting which has an orange colouration visible through the white figures on the dials. I understand that the black ink used on the white dials is a special translucent ink to allow the backlit illumination to show through similar to the original dials. I just wonder how much more visible this actually makes the dials in practice. Probably not much different at night unless the white dial faces are somehow also illuminated by or reflecting an external light source, and in the daytime without any backlit illumination I can also envisage the visibility being much improved.

 

But as many (most?) X290s will either have had the software update to enable instrument illumination at all times or are now supplied with that as the default setting in the case of newer vehicles, I wonder what effect the backlighting shining through the figures on the instruments will have when contrasted against the white background in daylight?

[Lockwood]

Hi,

the backlight is still amber at night. The white tends to silhouette so looks like the standard dial.

[ronecc]

Just a thought. Whist owners are pondering which way to go with their speedo's, if you have a Tom Tom or some other satnav system, just attach it, as it should have a true mph readout. Maybe Tom Tom/Garmin could just produce one of their satnavs but just have a big speed readout in place of the maps, or an option to switch between speed and navigation.

[colin]

ronecc - 2019-01-02 3:39 PM

 

Just a thought. Whist owners are pondering which way to go with their speedo's, if you have a Tom Tom or some other satnav system, just attach it, as it should have a true mph readout. Maybe Tom Tom/Garmin could just produce one of their satnavs but just have a big speed readout in place of the maps, or an option to switch between speed and navigation.

 

As I posted on another thread, you can get a speedo app for smart phones, from the screen shots they can have a large display, but I think most would like a standard speedo which they can read.

[Derek Uzzell]

 

A wish to resize the 'speed-readout’ element of a sat-nav’s display was discussed here last week.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Which-sat-nav/50950/

 

 

[Brian Kirby]

Yes, this is an old string, but it's a peg to hang a hat on! :-)

 

Following my experience in the spring, when I was fined twice on the same day for speeding while relying on a defective sat nav for road speed indication (because the Fiat speedometer is so difficult to read), I concentrated more closely on the speedometer during our autumn trip. This exposed further deficiencies in reading the current (X290) speedometer in our van, that had not previously been apparent while I concentrated on the sat nav,

 

These fall into three categories.

 

First, the speedometer dial sits behind a transparent plastic screen. This is highly polished and, when driving toward the light, merely fills with reflections to the extent that, in sunlight, the dial itself is virtually invisible behind the reflections.

 

Second, when strong light comes through the (LHD) driver's side window, the curved shroud above the speedometer casts a shadow across it such that the left hand segment of the dial is in shade while the remainder is brightly lit, making the shaded portion virtually impossible to read. This is, of course, that portion of the dial that carries the values from 0 to 60 MPH, which is, of course, exactly the portion one most often needs to refer to!

 

Third, the KPH scale is only half the diameter (at approx. 40mm) of the MPH scale (approx. 85 mm dia.), and the numerals are also about half the size of those for MPH. This is exacerbated by the pointer which, on the MPH scale reaches to the edge of the printed scale, whereas it sits directly over the KPH scale and, due to its width, obscures approximately 5 KPH of the scale. It therefore becomes impossible to judge road speed to within 5kph - even assuming one can actually see the scales.

 

I have to confess I hadn't realised just what an appalling instrument this was until I tried relying on it to drive!

 

I returned puzzled as to whether there was an actual legal requirement to include a KPH scale on a MPH speedometer, or whether these scales were merely included as a conventional gesture for vehicles registered in countries that use imperial units of measurement.

 

What I found was that the UK Construction & Use Regulations 1986, part 4, call for a vehicle speedometer to be “Capable of indicating speed in miles per hour and kilometres per hour either simultaneously or separately”. “Capable of”, however, is not further defined! :-)

 

The regulation also cites EC Directive 75/443 and regulation ECE39, both of which impose make similar statements where the vehicle is registered in a country that uses imperial units of measurement.

 

Further, that the standard of accuracy required by both 75/443 and ECE39 is that the speedometer shall be accurate to +/- 0.5%, but shall not (subject to clearly stated provisos) indicate a speed lower than actual velocity, and that all the above must have graduations in 1, 2, 5 , or 10 kph or mph, with values to be in multiples of 20 KPH/MPH.

 

This implies a high degree of accuracy in the instrument, in measuring both MPH and KPH, that I assume is intended allow a driver to know his speed with similar accuracy. Otherwise, what on earth is the point?

 

So does the current Fiat Ducato speedometer meet the requirement of the C&U etc. regulations? I don't see how it can, given its various shortcomings. I appreciate that Fiat have modified the scale illumination to be permanently on, but this illumination is only helpful in poor light, and is completely useless when the dial itself in strong light and unreadable due to shadows or reflections.

 

As an aside, it seems this problem is not unique to Ducatos and their Peugeot/Citroen clones, but spreads far wider, and that a number of cars also have difficult to read KPH speedometer scales. Recent reports of the large number of owners of UK registered vehicles being fined for speeding in France, leads me to wonder whether this is due to a general disregard for "foreign" speed limits among UK drivers, or to their difficulty in reading their speed in KPH.

 

One cannot drive safely while incessantly peering at a speedometer that will not reveal one's speed: one must pay some attention to road conditions as well as speed. I think this defect is a dangerous distraction, as well as one that places one at unreasonable risk of exceeding local speed limits.

 

So, I've written to the DfT to ask them their opinion, and asked whether a non-compliant speedometer is a ground for a recall to correct the fault. I think it should be. What to others think?