Bulletguy Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-02 8:42 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-02 6:47 PM You cant stop an EU citizen travelling from Brussels to Paris thats for sure but can sure as hell share information from the vast array of European security databases all of which are in jeopardy in a no deal Brexit scenario. Another remoaner fallacy. This may come as a nasty shock to the brainwashed but inter governmental cooperation is not dependant on the EU. It took place between allies long before the EU and will continue long after the EU has curled up it's toes and expired - just ask the USA. Just as any other form of inter governmental cooperation does not need us to be members of the EU to happen It's just a nasty excuse by Barmy Barnier and Herr Junkshop to put pressure on us to carry on subsidising their cosy lttle jobs and pensions. You don't seem to realise the EU is protecting the interests of 27 countries......not just one little country which wants to run away. Effectively it's 27 countries to 1 and what with 'attacks' from invisible drones and paying out millions to a "ferry company" with no ferries and no experience in business, we haven't been doing very well have we? Indeed we are very dependent on the EU as the cards are stacked well in their favour and it's sheer arrogance to believe any other or that the EU will simply 'curl up it's toes and expire'. Days of the British Empire are long gone and Britannia no longer rules the waves yet some folk think we still rule half the world - but we don't. Not only have we continually cut our nose to spite our face, we've even managed to divide and split up our own country! Far from a "nasty excuse" you'd best take a read of this Parliamentary report an long term future security relationships, in particular about SIS 2, ECRIS and EIS. https://publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm201719/cmselect/cmhaff/1356/135605.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 The only reason we think we are dependant on the EU is because the EU try to make everyone think they are dependant on the EU. It's one of the ways the EU projects the image that they are working for our benefit and if you believe all you read about that then it is obviously working on you. Some of us are far less gullible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 2, 2019 Share Posted January 2, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-02 10:31 PM The only reason we think we are dependant on the EU is because the EU try to make everyone think they are dependant on the EU. It's one of the ways the EU projects the image that they are working for our benefit and if you believe all you read about that then it is obviously working on you. Some of us are far less gullible. Its what the chief commissioners of the police and our security services have said Rich not some opinion in the Guardian. In addition to what Bullet posted we stand to lose 40 different crime fighting tools as well as membership of agencies and systems such as Europol, the EAW and Schengen II. https://www.ft.com/content/4f833bae-bb39-11e8-8274-55b72926558f Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-02 10:51 PM Tracker - 2019-01-02 10:31 PM The only reason we think we are dependant on the EU is because the EU try to make everyone think they are dependant on the EU. It's one of the ways the EU projects the image that they are working for our benefit and if you believe all you read about that then it is obviously working on you. Some of us are far less gullible. Its what the chief commissioners of the police and our security services have said Rich not some opinion in the Guardian. In addition to what Bullet posted we stand to lose 40 different crime fighting tools as well as membership of agencies and systems such as Europol, the EAW and Schengen II. https://www.ft.com/content/4f833bae-bb39-11e8-8274-55b72926558f The chief commissioners of police are part of the Remoaner establishment *-) ......... So it's hardly a surprise that they peddle the establishments propaganda >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 So basically any expert or top security officer who has any concerns over our post Brexit safety is clearly just a remoaner rather than someone who has inside knowledge, expertise and knows all the facts? Jeez :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-03 9:24 AM So basically any expert or top security officer who has any concerns over our post Brexit safety is clearly just a remoaner rather than someone who has inside knowledge, expertise and knows all the facts? Jeez :( I take the views of all Establishment Remoaner stooges with a large pinch of salt ;-) ......... Especially as it appears we no longer have terrorists........just folk with a mental problems *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 As I have repeatedly stated - nobody needs to be in the EU to share information, security or any other, or to coperate with other governments on any matter. Security is not an EU issue, it is a world wide issue not confined to the EU member states - or do we assume that no coperation exists between the EU and any other non member state? No wonder it is a mess? If the EU choose to make it difficult that is purely down to the intransigence of the EU and their wish to make life as difficult as possible to discourage other leavers. Simples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-03 10:47 AM As I have repeatedly stated - nobody needs to be in the EU to share information, security or any other, or to coperate with other governments on any matter. Security is not an EU issue, it is a world wide issue not confined to the EU member states - or do we assume that no coperation exists between the EU and any other non member state? No wonder it is a mess? If the EU choose to make it difficult that is purely down to the intransigence of the EU and their wish to make life as difficult as possible to discourage other leavers. Simples. Exactly Rich........do we not share intelligence with the USA ? :D .......... Remoaner desperation gets more pathetic everyday *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-03 9:24 AM So basically any expert or top security officer who has any concerns over our post Brexit safety is clearly just a remoaner rather than someone who has inside knowledge, expertise and knows all the facts? Jeez :( Us Brexiteers are already in your view going to be responsible for all hate crimes and murders towards foreigners ... We might as well go full on and now be responsible for any terrorism carried out here after Brexit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-01-03 11:09 AM Exactly Rich........do we not share intelligence with the USA ? :D .......... Remoaner desperation gets more pathetic everyday *-) ........ Indeed, as far as I can tell our relationship with the USA regarding security matters will not change on 30th March, neither will the USA's relationship with any member state of the EU, or with the EU itself? So why should our relationship with the EU change when state security is largely an individual state issue and not an overall EU matter - unless the EU decide to be obstructive? I used to be undecided, but having seen the way the EU appears to want to see itself as an omnipotent control freak empire in control of all aspects of everyone's life, I am starting to think the sooner we are out of it the better. The EEC was maybe a good idea in 1973 but it seems to have outlived it's original purpose and outgrown it's original role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-03 10:47 AM As I have repeatedly stated - nobody needs to be in the EU to share information, security or any other, or to coperate with other governments on any matter. Security is not an EU issue, it is a world wide issue not confined to the EU member states - or do we assume that no coperation exists between the EU and any other non member state? No wonder it is a mess? If the EU choose to make it difficult that is purely down to the intransigence of the EU and their wish to make life as difficult as possible to discourage other leavers. Simples. They do when all the data is governed by the ECJ. Take for example The Schengen II database (one of many). It is used by police right across Europe to search for terrorist suspects and missing people and to check vehicle registrations and passport details. It contains information on 36,000 criminal suspects, 103,000 missing people and half a million non-EU citizens denied entry to Europe. Thats just one tool of 40 we stand to lose. We could keep them if we agreed to a soft Brexit with SM and CU with ECJ rule but the Brexiteers dont want to do that. Its not the EU being difficult. Its a well oiled machine developed over decades and the ECJ, Single market, Digital single market and customs union are all interlinked and out of the club you lose them all. Isnt that what you wanted? It does however come at a price dropping all that and one of them without doubt will be security. You Brexiteers can call it remoaner propaganda as much as you like but the facts are we will lose access to all that info. We wont be able to check for example if someone trying to enter the UK is a known criminal or a suspected terrorist if that data is only held on the databases we will lose. How can that make us and our borders safer? Its just one more aspect of how the entire ideology Brexit dream was simply not thought through and now the facts of exactly what we stand to lose are becoming ever more apparent with each passing day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-03 11:27 AM Tracker - 2019-01-03 10:47 AM As I have repeatedly stated - nobody needs to be in the EU to share information, security or any other, or to coperate with other governments on any matter. Security is not an EU issue, it is a world wide issue not confined to the EU member states - or do we assume that no coperation exists between the EU and any other non member state? No wonder it is a mess? If the EU choose to make it difficult that is purely down to the intransigence of the EU and their wish to make life as difficult as possible to discourage other leavers. Simples. They do when all the data is governed by the ECJ. Take for example The Schengen II database (one of many). It is used by police right across Europe to search for terrorist suspects and missing people and to check vehicle registrations and passport details. It contains information on 36,000 criminal suspects, 103,000 missing people and half a million non-EU citizens denied entry to Europe. Well its pretty cr*p system then, seeing as we apparently have 25,000 potential terrorists just in the UK *-) ........ https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/islamist-extremists-uk-highest-number-europe-25000-terror-threat-eu-official-isis-islam-britain-a7923966.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-03 11:27 AM They do when all the data is governed by the ECJ. That is not a security issue, that is an ECJ issue. Governance of the release and use of data by the ECJ is solely an EU/ECJ issue, which many people on both sides seem to conveniently want to hide behind and blame the UK for. Or does that also mean the USA and other non EU allies are also met with the same reluctance to share 'data' and intel? But getting EU remoaners to see that seems unlikely when in your eyes the EU can do no wrong and the UK can do no right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 3, 2019 Author Share Posted January 3, 2019 The US , Canada , New Zealand , Australia and soon to be UK aren't in the EU so how come they manage to cooperate without the need of the dying club ??? ... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Five_Eyes ... From the link " The Five eyes relationship remains one of the most comprehensive known espionage alliances in history" ... Shut up Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Oh ok then, I see. The head honchos at MI5/6 and the rozzers are just making it all up as they are all remoaners. We dont need the 40 shared EU tools and shared security databases then. The good ole USA will tell us everything thats going on in Europe instead. Thats that sorted then. Bloody UK intelligence experts huh! Clearly dont know what they are talking about. The USA is where its at clearly. They really know whats what. *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-03 11:18 AM pelmetman - 2019-01-03 11:09 AM Exactly Rich........do we not share intelligence with the USA ? :D .......... Remoaner desperation gets more pathetic everyday *-) ........ Indeed, as far as I can tell our relationship with the USA regarding security matters will not change on 30th March, neither will the USA's relationship with any member state of the EU, or with the EU itself? So why should our relationship with the EU change when state security is largely an individual state issue and not an overall EU matter - unless the EU decide to be obstructive? I used to be undecided, but having seen the way the EU appears to want to see itself as an omnipotent control freak empire in control of all aspects of everyone's life, I am starting to think the sooner we are out of it the better. The EEC was maybe a good idea in 1973 but it seems to have outlived it's original purpose and outgrown it's original role. US and Europe have differing laws on data protection and EU law is more stringent than US....former CIA man Snowden and his 'wikileaks' being a good example of that. https://www.pensar.co.uk/blog/data-protection-in-the-us-vs-europe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-03 5:39 PM US and Europe have differing laws on data protection and EU law is more stringent than US....former CIA man Snowden and his 'wikileaks' being a good example of that. What a load of old borrox and obfuscation that does nothing to explain why the EU is so bloody minded towards the UK - unless it really is just petulance and sour grapes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Is everybody overlooking Interpol it's been in existence much longer than Europol and is global as opposed to Europol who seem to be parochial. If you look up Interpol you will see that they were involved in a French criminal roundup and using there global data were able to identify criminals from outside the EU. Don't take my word for it look it up for yourselves. I know which organisation I would prefer if it was a choice between them but as others have said cooperation will continue unless the EU play stupid. (^) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-03 6:09 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-03 5:39 PM US and Europe have differing laws on data protection and EU law is more stringent than US....former CIA man Snowden and his 'wikileaks' being a good example of that. What a load of old borrox and obfuscation that does nothing to explain why the EU is so bloody minded towards the UK - unless it really is just petulance and sour grapes? Whats the point of having a club membership if you let any tom dick and harry in it without being a member? The UK have decided to go rogue and for reasons that are beyond most people (and countries for that matter) think we can be the only country in the world to forge ahead on WTO rules without being part of a trading bloc. Its not sour grapes, its maintaining standards. We are about to become Europe's Tramp, sitting in the corner drinking White lightning (Can you still get that?) out of a bottle in a bag while shouting over at the clean and tidy club members over the road in the shiny club house "Give us some food ya Bastas! Belch!). I think they are quite right to tell us to sod off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Barryd999 - 2019-01-03 6:35 PM Whats the point of having a club membership if you let any tom dick and harry in it without being a member? The UK have decided to go rogue and for reasons that are beyond most people (and countries for that matter) think we can be the only country in the world to forge ahead on WTO rules without being part of a trading bloc. Its not sour grapes, its maintaining standards. We are about to become Europe's Tramp, sitting in the corner drinking White lightning (Can you still get that?) out of a bottle in a bag while shouting over at the clean and tidy club members over the road in the shiny club house "Give us some food ya Bastas! Belch!). I think they are quite right to tell us to sod off. Whatever Bulletbrain is on you must be having some too now Barry as now you too are talking a load of old borrox! Club membership has nothing to do with international security cooperation. I don't expect some numpties to understand that but I do expect better from you. The UK is not going rogue, merely ceasing to contribute to a club that has outlived it's usefullness to us and were it not for the petulance of said club leaders the transition would have been smooth and seamless and it is the UK who should be telling the EU to Sodde off and pay for their own folllies not expect us to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted January 3, 2019 Share Posted January 3, 2019 Tracker - 2019-01-03 6:09 PM Bulletguy - 2019-01-03 5:39 PM US and Europe have differing laws on data protection and EU law is more stringent than US....former CIA man Snowden and his 'wikileaks' being a good example of that. What a load of old borrox and obfuscation that does nothing to explain why the EU is so bloody minded towards the UK - unless it really is just petulance and sour grapes? Eh?? Tracker - 2019-01-03 7:19 PM Barryd999 - 2019-01-03 6:35 PM Whats the point of having a club membership if you let any tom dick and harry in it without being a member? The UK have decided to go rogue and for reasons that are beyond most people (and countries for that matter) think we can be the only country in the world to forge ahead on WTO rules without being part of a trading bloc. Its not sour grapes, its maintaining standards. We are about to become Europe's Tramp, sitting in the corner drinking White lightning (Can you still get that?) out of a bottle in a bag while shouting over at the clean and tidy club members over the road in the shiny club house "Give us some food ya Bastas! Belch!). I think they are quite right to tell us to sod off. Whatever Bulletbrain is on you must be having some too now Barry as now you too are talking a load of old borrox! Club membership has nothing to do with international security cooperation. I don't expect some numpties to understand that but I do expect better from you. Eh again? Are you disputing what the parliament link i posted last night said on that? The UK is not going rogue, merely ceasing to contribute to a club that has outlived it's usefullness to us and were it not for the petulance of said club leaders the transition would have been smooth and seamless and it is the UK who should be telling the EU to Sodde off and pay for their own folllies not expect us to. If as you believe it's "outlived it's usefulness to us"........then why is government so anxious to take whatever it can get from it? Why have businesses continually warned of the foolishness of 'no deal' and the catastrophic damage you will do to the country and economy? The fact you've been burying your heads in the sand is the reason many have simply given up and moved their operations out of the UK......and then you talk about the EU should pay for their follies!! Couldn't make that last one up if i tried...that's hilarious....you were having a laugh weren't you? Even that arch flag waving "patriot" Brexiter (flag of convenience) Dyson sealed the deal to build his electric cars in Singapore just days after Singapore negotiated FTA's with the EU. I wonder why? It certainly wasn't for cheap labour as Singapore has one of the highest labour rates along with the most expensive land costs for industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted January 4, 2019 Share Posted January 4, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-01-03 5:39 PM US and Europe have differing laws on data protection and EU law is more stringent than US....former CIA man Snowden and his 'wikileaks' being a good example of that. https://www.pensar.co.uk/blog/data-protection-in-the-us-vs-europe "The files also make clear that GCHQ played a leading role in advising its European counterparts how to work around national laws intended to restrict the surveillance power of intelligence agencies." https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2013/nov/01/gchq-europe-spy-agencies-mass-surveillance-snowden (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) (lol) ............. Seems to me GCHQ will benefit from being outside of the EU wet laws >:-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 4, 2019 Author Share Posted January 4, 2019 They don't come to improve their English or the weather ... https://www.gov.uk/asylum-support/what-youll-get ... Thats without all the help from local councils and charities of which we have many in my area ... Lordy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 Public safety video of what to do if you stumble across a young male migrant type in Dover ... https://twitter.com/Dontshutusupp/status/1082250427176050689 ... Or ya could drop em off at Barrys gaffe ... Bye bye Ireland ... https://twitter.com/lorraineSW1/status/1082265975490269185 ... Wonderful cultural enrichment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
antony1969 Posted January 7, 2019 Author Share Posted January 7, 2019 More young French fellas fleeing the war that ravages Europe ... https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6564707/Police-launch-hunt-migrants-abandoned-inflatable-boat-Kent-coast.html ... Here to help we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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