Bulletguy Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 8:30 AM pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:15 AM Fast Pat - 2019-03-06 10:04 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-06 9:57 PM Fast Pat - 2019-03-06 9:47 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-06 8:52 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-06 8:23 PM What's your beef against £130k per employee? Because its a load of boll*cks *-) ............ UK Annual production (2015): 1.5 million Est. annual salary: $37,000 (£39,800) GDP per head: $47,000 (£37,800) The average annual wage for a UK production worker on unionised sites is £30,250, although there’s no indication as to who – Honda, JLR, Nissan, Toyota or Vauxhall – pays the highest salaries. A JLR spokeswoman hinted it pays better than any other UK-based firm, and went further still by claiming its car workers are among the highest paid in Europe – but it flatly refused to go into details. Several ‘production operator’ jobs were recently up for grabs at JLR, ranging from £13,897 to £39,100. The SMMT also told us the average rate is 22.30 Euros (£19.07) per hour in the UK. Assuming a 40-hour week, this equates to around £39,800 annually. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/98986/the-global-car-manufacturing-wage-gap-what-do-car-factory-workers-earn The GDP you've quoted is per capita - divided by the whole population including oxygen thieves like yourself, not per active worker. See another thing you know nothing about. Did you not read this bit? ;-) ......... "Several ‘production operator’ jobs were recently up for grabs at JLR, ranging from £13,897 to £39,100. The SMMT also told us the average rate is 22.30 Euros (£19.07) per hour in the UK. Assuming a 40-hour week, this equates to around £39,800 annually. " See I know a bullsh*tter when I see one >:-) ........ For gods sake go and look up what GDP, GDP per capita and GDP per active employee. It's not the same as average pay. Which is what you, in your ignorance, are confusing it with. I know exactly what the difference is ;-) ............ I'm flagging up that your mate Dumb Dumb is trying to suggest that £130k is the average wage for UK car workers by making statements like this >:-) ...... "In 2016 the automotive industry turnover was £77.5 billion with 814,000 employees each generating more than £130k to the UK economy" When the truth is the average 2017 car workers wage is less than £40k ..........Which is less than I was earning as a "Curtain Muncher" in the 90's 8-) .......... You have just proved yourself even more stupid. "each generating more than £130k to the local economy", it does NOT say they earned £130k, now go and look up GDP. His lightbulb went out years ago....even a candle barely flickers now. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 7, 2019 Author Share Posted March 7, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 1:31 PM antony1969 - 2019-03-07 1:17 PM Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 1:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:52 AM I'll take it my analogy is correct? :D ........... "I don't understand how anything works, but I have very strong opinions about it!" The first honest thing youve said ... Well done ... At least you know your limits Another one who doesn't understand basic comprehension - is English a second language to you Anthhhhhhhhhhhhhony? He thinks inverted commas are morse code. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 7, 2019 Share Posted March 7, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-03-07 1:12 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:52 AM I'll take it my analogy is correct? :D ........... "I don't understand how anything works, but I have very strong opinions about it!" So are those 4000 EU citizens in our prisons not contributing to the local economy GDP by creating employment for prison officers?.....police officers?.......solicitors?........judges?.........court staff?......etc etc? ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-06 9:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-03-06 9:06 PM The average manufacturing worker generated more than £130,000 for the British economy, up 9.8% on 2015. The number of livelihoods dependent on the sector as a whole stood at 814,000 across manufacturing, retail, distribution and repair services. 130k......Generated for the economy?.......Really? *-) .......... Using that argument those 4000 EU criminals in our prisons are prolly generating more money for the UK economy >:-) ........ Dave, you've got this all round your neck! :-D GDP per capita does not represent what the employee is paid, it represents what, on average, the employee generates for their employer. GDP = Gross Domestic Product, it is not the pay bill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:48 PM...............….So are those 4000 EU citizens in our prisons not contributing to the local economy GDP by creating employment for prison officers?.....police officers?.......solicitors?........judges?.........court staff?......etc etc? ;-) ........ Now you're being really silly, Dave. :-S The only thing that can be said for the 4,000 (or whatever) EU citizens in jail who you're trying to hide behind, is that they contribute absolutely nothing to the GDP of the motor industry, or to the UK in general, because (please check the title of the string) they aren't in employment, so are irrelevant to losses of jobs. So, for the record, your analogy a) fails even to qualify as an analogy but in addition is, b) profoundly wrong and c) totally irrelevant. Do you actually believe the crud you write? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 2:03 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-06 9:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-03-06 9:06 PM The average manufacturing worker generated more than £130,000 for the British economy, up 9.8% on 2015. The number of livelihoods dependent on the sector as a whole stood at 814,000 across manufacturing, retail, distribution and repair services. 130k......Generated for the economy?.......Really? *-) .......... Using that argument those 4000 EU criminals in our prisons are prolly generating more money for the UK economy >:-) ........ Dave, you've got this all round your neck! :-D GDP per capita does not represent what the employee is paid, it represents what, on average, the employee generates for their employer. GDP = Gross Domestic Product, it is not the pay bill. So are those 4000 EU prisoners not generating GDP? ;-) ......... Where the police officers NOT being paid when they arrested them?.......Are prison officers NOT being paid to look after them?........are solicitors NOT getting money off the tax payer to defend them?.........Was the judge NOT paid to for their trial?..........Were the court officials NOT being paid?......... Is the income of all those above NOT included in UK GDP? :D .......... It seems to me EU criminals prolly generate more than a 130k a year GDP for the UK economy >:-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 2:03 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-06 9:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-03-06 9:06 PM The average manufacturing worker generated more than £130,000 for the British economy, up 9.8% on 2015. The number of livelihoods dependent on the sector as a whole stood at 814,000 across manufacturing, retail, distribution and repair services. 130k......Generated for the economy?.......Really? *-) .......... Using that argument those 4000 EU criminals in our prisons are prolly generating more money for the UK economy >:-) ........ Dave, you've got this all round your neck! :-D GDP per capita does not represent what the employee is paid, it represents what, on average, the employee generates for their employer. GDP = Gross Domestic Product, it is not the pay bill. So are those 4000 EU prisoners not generating GDP? ;-) ......... Where the police officers NOT being paid when they arrested them?.......Are prison officers NOT being paid to look after them?........are solicitors NOT getting money off the tax payer to defend them?.........Was the judge NOT paid to for their trial?..........Were the court officials NOT being paid?......... Is the income of all those above NOT included in UK GDP? :D .......... It seems to me EU criminals prolly generate more than a 130k a year GDP for the UK economy >:-) ....... So the richest country in the world would be the one with the highest proportion of its population in prison? Have you checked this compelling theory? 'Strewth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 2:30 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:16 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 2:03 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-06 9:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-03-06 9:06 PM The average manufacturing worker generated more than £130,000 for the British economy, up 9.8% on 2015. The number of livelihoods dependent on the sector as a whole stood at 814,000 across manufacturing, retail, distribution and repair services. 130k......Generated for the economy?.......Really? *-) .......... Using that argument those 4000 EU criminals in our prisons are prolly generating more money for the UK economy >:-) ........ Dave, you've got this all round your neck! :-D GDP per capita does not represent what the employee is paid, it represents what, on average, the employee generates for their employer. GDP = Gross Domestic Product, it is not the pay bill. So are those 4000 EU prisoners not generating GDP? ;-) ......... Where the police officers NOT being paid when they arrested them?.......Are prison officers NOT being paid to look after them?........are solicitors NOT getting money off the tax payer to defend them?.........Was the judge NOT paid to for their trial?..........Were the court officials NOT being paid?......... Is the income of all those above NOT included in UK GDP? :D .......... It seems to me EU criminals prolly generate more than a 130k a year GDP for the UK economy >:-) ....... So the richest country in the world would be the one with the highest proportion of its population in prison? Have you checked this compelling theory? 'Strewth! Nope ;-) ........... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 2:03 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-06 9:46 PM Bulletguy - 2019-03-06 9:06 PM The average manufacturing worker generated more than £130,000 for the British economy, up 9.8% on 2015. The number of livelihoods dependent on the sector as a whole stood at 814,000 across manufacturing, retail, distribution and repair services. 130k......Generated for the economy?.......Really? *-) .......... Using that argument those 4000 EU criminals in our prisons are prolly generating more money for the UK economy >:-) ........ Dave, you've got this all round your neck! :-D GDP per capita does not represent what the employee is paid, it represents what, on average, the employee generates for their employer. GDP = Gross Domestic Product, it is not the pay bill. I wish it would throttle him! (lol) Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 2:14 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-07 8:48 PM...............….So are those 4000 EU citizens in our prisons not contributing to the local economy GDP by creating employment for prison officers?.....police officers?.......solicitors?........judges?.........court staff?......etc etc? ;-) ........ Now you're being really silly, Dave. :-S The only thing that can be said for the 4,000 (or whatever) EU citizens in jail who you're trying to hide behind, is that they contribute absolutely nothing to the GDP of the motor industry, or to the UK in general, because (please check the title of the string) they aren't in employment, so are irrelevant to losses of jobs. So, for the record, your analogy a) fails even to qualify as an analogy but in addition is, b) profoundly wrong and c) totally irrelevant. Do you actually believe the crud you write? Yes he does as you can see from his last post not one word of what either you or FP has tried very hard to explain in simple basics, has sunk in. I gave up on him long back when he drew the wild conclusion i was referring to employee income levels! *-) Easy to see why that Pelmet "business" went down the pan. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barryd999 Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Have any of you ever stopped to think that Dangerous Dave might actually be a genius and he is just winding you up? I cant believe he is really that stupid. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. But back to Brexit, if you look at the per capita GDP of the UK, and compare that to the per capita GDP of other countries, you will see why, despite Britain being the fifth largest economy in the world, so many of its working population are dissatisfied with their quality of life. It comes out way down the list (24th, 25th or 29th - depending on who's counting), which means our labour is not used as efficiently as others, so we inevitably get paid less than others. (Germany - the fourth largest economy - for example, ranks 15th, 16th, or 19th, which is why they have a higher standard of living than us Brits). With Brexit, those unhappy people have been persuaded that if we leave the EU, the money we/they save will make them, and our public services, better off. Unfortunately, all economic forecasts show that the reverse will be true, and that the average Joe will be worse off and, with government revenues falling, so will our public services. Brexiters like to think that the threat of them becoming angry if Brexit is thwarted is a good enough reason to ensure it is Delivered. The threat of the angry mob. IMO, that anger is as nothing beside the anger that will be released as those who voted for Brexit in the expectation of a better quality of life and better public services, begin to find themselves getting worse off, and their public services still deteriorating, precisely because of Brexit. Then, when they discover that the option of being able to re-join the EU will leave them even worse off than they have become post-Brexit, there will be a truly angry mob. That is why people tend to say that those who voted to leave did not fully realise what they were voting for: it is the assumption that no normal person would vote to be worse off, or to have worse public services. The rich may well feel that they can afford being worse off if it gives them the intangible benefits they value, but the rest of us will feel the pinch in our pockets. That, IMO, is when the poo will really hit the fan! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. Which is why its irrelevant because it assumes none of Honda's employees get another job *-) ........... Given the current state of the UK jobs market I don't see that as a problem :D ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-08 6:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. Which is why its irrelevant because it assumes none of Honda's employees get another job *-) ........... Given the current state of the UK jobs market I don't see that as a problem :D ......... The relevance of that depends on whether they actually can get alternative jobs. It also depends on whether they can get equivalent jobs. Do you know where those equivalent, replacement, jobs will be found? Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda. Me, I think some folk will lose their homes, their kids' educations will be disrupted, they will have to move elsewhere, probably from houses that have lost value with the local fall in demand. Ask them if they think it'll all be alright on the night. I think you'd get rather different answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM The relevance of that depends on whether they actually can get alternative jobs. It also depends on whether they can get equivalent jobs. Do you know where those equivalent, replacement, jobs will be found? . https://smallbusinessprices.co.uk/uk-skills-shortage/ :D .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda. What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? *-) ......... If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ;-) .......... But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to >:-) ....... They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU (^) ............. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda. What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? *-) ......... If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ;-) .......... But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to >:-) ....... They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU (^) ............. See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open. When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:28 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda. What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? *-) ......... If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ;-) .......... But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to >:-) ....... They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU (^) ............. See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open. When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions. Where have they said "The production facility remains open"? ;-) .......... Perhaps you can supply a link? :D ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:33 PM Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:28 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda. What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? *-) ......... If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ;-) .......... But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to >:-) ....... They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU (^) ............. See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open. When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions. Where have they said "The production facility remains open"? ;-) .......... Perhaps you can supply a link? :D ........... Dementia got to you again? https://www.dailysabah.com/automotive/2019/02/19/honda-says-its-not-leaving-turkey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:46 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:33 PM Fast Pat - 2019-03-08 8:28 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 8:19 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda. What has Brexit got to do with Honda closing their factory? *-) ......... If it was about access to the EU surely they'd move production too Turkey ;-) .......... But they're not are they?.........They're stopping production there to >:-) ....... They've closed their factory because Japan now has a FTA with the EU, so they no longer need to have factories anywhere near the EU (^) ............. See now you're just getting silly. We have established beyond ANY doubt based on Hondas own statements that the production of their current model will stop in Turkey, BUT the production facility remains open. When you post crap like this it becomes apparent that all your interested in doing is playing "oh no its not" and not having meaningful discussions. Where have they said "The production facility remains open"? ;-) .......... Perhaps you can supply a link? :D ........... Dementia got to you again? https://www.dailysabah.com/automotive/2019/02/19/honda-says-its-not-leaving-turkey So where does it say "The production facility remains open?" >:-) ........... Best you make an appointment with the quack as your seeing things that aren't there 8-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment. :-| But back to Brexit, if you look at the per capita GDP of the UK, and compare that to the per capita GDP of other countries, you will see why, despite Britain being the fifth largest economy in the world, so many of its working population are dissatisfied with their quality of life. It comes out way down the list (24th, 25th or 29th - depending on who's counting), which means our labour is not used as efficiently as others, so we inevitably get paid less than others. (Germany - the fourth largest economy - for example, ranks 15th, 16th, or 19th, which is why they have a higher standard of living than us Brits). And it's noticeably higher too Brexiters like to think that the threat of them becoming angry if Brexit is thwarted is a good enough reason to ensure it is Delivered. The threat of the angry mob. IMO, that anger is as nothing beside the anger that will be released as those who voted for Brexit in the expectation of a better quality of life and better public services, begin to find themselves getting worse off, and their public services still deteriorating, precisely because of Brexit. Then, when they discover that the option of being able to re-join the EU will leave them even worse off than they have become post-Brexit, there will be a truly angry mob. Wonderfully summed up by this guy; That is why people tend to say that those who voted to leave did not fully realise what they were voting for: it is the assumption that no normal person would vote to be worse off, or to have worse public services. The rich may well feel that they can afford being worse off if it gives them the intangible benefits they value, but the rest of us will feel the pinch in our pockets. That, IMO, is when the poo will really hit the fan! And why disaster capitalists like Rees-Mogg are desperately anxious to get it pushed through. People like him will profit in the multi millions whilst Pelmet scours scrapyards for spares to keep his old tub running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment. :-| Tangent?...........You're the one who introduced the 130k figure ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 8, 2019 Share Posted March 8, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM And why disaster capitalists like Rees-Mogg are desperately anxious to get it pushed through. People like him will profit in the multi millions whilst Pelmet scours scrapyards for spares to keep his old tub running. You mean an old tub like yours? ;-) ........... Cant say I've had any trouble getting spares :-S ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 7:11 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 6:35 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £K130 figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. Which is why its irrelevant because it assumes none of Honda's employees get another job *-) ........... Given the current state of the UK jobs market I don't see that as a problem :D ......... The relevance of that depends on whether they actually can get alternative jobs. It also depends on whether they can get equivalent jobs. Do you know where those equivalent, replacement, jobs will be found? Seems just a bit glib to me to say they'll be OK, they'll all get alternative, well paid, jobs - on the basis that you want Brexit, and that is the only answer that suits your agenda. Me, I think some folk will lose their homes, their kids' educations will be disrupted, they will have to move elsewhere, probably from houses that have lost value with the local fall in demand. Ask them if they think it'll all be alright on the night. I think you'd get rather different answers. Many C4 news spoke to were long term service employees too having worked only in that industry, some from school leaving age so knew no other type of work. Many have their entire families employed there. Skilled and semi-skilled auto workers with mortgages to pay so loss of family homes is a certainty and disruption of their childrens education, inevitable. Not to mention the many thousands of employees in the supply chain to Honda whose jobs will also go. It's a disgrace brought upon a nation by irrational sheer bloody minded selfishness. I'd challenge any Brexiter to go and stand outside the factory and tell employees "you can get another job". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted March 8, 2019 Author Share Posted March 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-03-08 9:13 PM Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment. :-| Tangent?...........You're the one who introduced the 130k figure ;-) ......... For the umpteenth time......no i didn't. It's in the damn report if only you would read it FGS. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/06/uk-automotive-achieves-record-turnover-77-5-billion-marking-seventh-consecutive-year-growth/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted March 9, 2019 Share Posted March 9, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 9:23 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 9:13 PM Bulletguy - 2019-03-08 8:58 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-03-08 6:21 PM pelmetman - 2019-03-08 2:39 PM...……………......... I'm just demonstrating that using gdp to inflate car workers wages from £39k a year to 130k is a deceit *-) ....... Unless you care to explain how £39k can possibly become worth £130k in a year? 8-) .......... I'll try again. What a person earns is not directly proportionate to, and does not equate to, the value of work they do. What an employer pays reflects only what he has to pay, to get someone to do the work he wants done, to the standard he requires. However, what an employee produces will inevitably be worth more than his pay, because it has to cover all business overheads, and profit. That £130K figure is the value of what the average employee produces, not what s/he is paid. This is calculated by taking the total amount of money generated by the company that employs them, and dividing it by the number of people employed. That is the gross per capita product of the company, which gives a measure of how efficient it is in converting labour into cash. If the same calculation is done for a country it is usually called the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) of the country. Not sure he's "got that" even now as he's decided to go off on a tangent about Honda and unemployment. :-| Tangent?...........You're the one who introduced the 130k figure ;-) ......... For the umpteenth time......no i didn't. It's in the damn report if only you would read it FGS. https://www.smmt.co.uk/2017/06/uk-automotive-achieves-record-turnover-77-5-billion-marking-seventh-consecutive-year-growth/ That's interesting .........It appears the majority of those employed in the car industry are not actually involved in manufacturing ;-) .......... So the UK is in a much better position than Germany to weather the global downturn in car sales, and the inevitable disruption due to the change over to electric B-) ........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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