Clive_Adams Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 It isn’t “always British vans” - there has been similar discussions on French forums (example here) https://www.routard.com/forum_message/4226627/vol_de_nuit_et_gaze_en_camping_car.htm Apologies for not being able to speak fluent French, but I guess there was a few French incidents, any mention of the Germans, Dutch, Danish, Belgiums, Swiss, and of course the Swedes and the Norwegians, not forgetting the Italians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 6, 2019 Author Share Posted August 6, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-06 4:58 PM How did my mechanic manage to work when my alarm was going off indicating a raised level of CO? ;-) ....... Probably because the alarm was faulty and there was no raised level. CO is a poison it is not any form of anaesthetic gas (when was the last time a hospital used it for operations?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 "How did my mechanic manage to work when my alarm was going off indicating a raised level of CO?" I would have thought that is patently obvious. These alarms are very sensitive and designed to trigger at concentrations far below anything that would cause harm. If they stayed silent until you began to feel the effects there would be little point in having them. You said earlier that the NHS had reported 4,000 cases of CO poisoning with only 100 deaths. That is meaningless in the context of this discussion unless we know how many of those 4,000 were so severe as to render the victim unconscious. One other point to consider is that there have been claims of this happening to family groups, sometimes including children. Even if an assailant were able to calculate and deliver the correct anaesthetic dose of whatever is supposed to be used, how would he account for the differences in the weights of the occupants? Unless they were all of the same weight and state of health, then either the lightest would be rendered unconscious while the largest remained awake or the largest would fall unconscious and the smallest would die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 6, 2019 Share Posted August 6, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-06 5:55 PM Nicepix - 2019-08-06 4:52 PM As for the questions about people sleeping through these events; I have been part of teams that have forcibly put doors in, gone in with three or four colleagues and found the person we were looking for and others in the house still asleep. I have kicked a door in and gone upstairs and been unable to waken all the occupants to tell them their house was on fire. I had to carry one of them downstairs still asleep. Kinda proves how effective Carbon Monoxide is at knocking people out don't you think? ;-) ........... After all Carbon Monoxide is a by product of a fire is it not? :-| .......... No. There was no smoke in that part of the house. I ought to have realised that you would grasp at that straw and cleared that point up. You really are: a) Desperate to convince others of your belief for some unknown reason. b) Clueless in the things that you quote and claim to know about. Unless you actually have some proof of this I have no intention of continuing this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-08-06 10:13 PM pelmetman - 2019-08-06 5:55 PM Nicepix - 2019-08-06 4:52 PM As for the questions about people sleeping through these events; I have been part of teams that have forcibly put doors in, gone in with three or four colleagues and found the person we were looking for and others in the house still asleep. I have kicked a door in and gone upstairs and been unable to waken all the occupants to tell them their house was on fire. I had to carry one of them downstairs still asleep. Kinda proves how effective Carbon Monoxide is at knocking people out don't you think? ;-) ........... After all Carbon Monoxide is a by product of a fire is it not? :-| .......... No. There was no smoke in that part of the house. I ought to have realised that you would grasp at that straw and cleared that point up. Smoke is not Carbon Monoxide ;-) .......... Carbon monoxide (CO) is a colorless, odorless, tasteless, deadly gas. You can’t see, smell or taste it. Carbon monoxide is slightly lighter than air and quickly spreads throughout an entire house. https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extension-and-outreach/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-downdrafting-aen-165/ If you were a fireman it appears your training was somewhat lacking :-| .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 It’s amusing that there has been argument about this for so many years as it really doesn’t matter whether ‘gassing’ actually happens or not. Presumably nobody is going to argue that theft from caravans/motorhomes parked overnight abroad at motorway service-stations or in lay-bys does not occur? In such scenarios, if the occupants of the vehicle remain asleep naturally while the theft is in progress or the theives employ some means to prevent the occupants from waking up, the end result is the same - a theft takes place. Credulity can be valuable and if travellers believe that overnighting abroad at motorway service-stations or in lay-bys risks a gas-attack and theft, that seems to me to be a good thing. Gas-attack reports are more sensational than simple theft reports, and as far as I’m concerned the more widely and sensationally the theft risk is ‘advertised’ the better. A further couple of links https://www.lifesure.co.uk/articles/gas-attacks-on-caravans-and-motorhomes-fact-or-fiction https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/ams/motorhome-gas-attacks.5/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 7, 2019 Author Share Posted August 7, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-06 9:08 AM There are on average 4000 cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning every year compared to a 100 deaths according to the NHS ;-) .......... So I'd say that death is unlikely to result from short term exposure :-| ......... The Germans used CO equipped vans for killing Jews, Gypsies and other undesirables as a lead-up to the more efficient use of Zyklon B (cyanide gas) in purpose made gas chambers. The people herded into the vans only had, "short term exposure". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 spospe - 2019-08-07 9:14 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-06 9:08 AM There are on average 4000 cases of Carbon Monoxide poisoning every year compared to a 100 deaths according to the NHS ;-) .......... So I'd say that death is unlikely to result from short term exposure :-| ......... The Germans used CO equipped vans for killing Jews, Gypsies and other undesirables as a lead-up to the more efficient use of Zyklon B (cyanide gas) in purpose made gas chambers. The people herded into the vans only had, "short term exposure". It began at Hartheim in Austria and their early experiments used disabled children packed into vans they drove around until the screaming stopped. Pretty sick and gross but you're right, it was the forerunner to Zyklon B. Thieves aren't going to spend time mucking around with cans of gas or whatever.....their method is gain entry, snatch and go. I've been robbed some years ago in Spain. I know much more about the methods used than i did then. Mine was the distraction method and they were gone after two or three minutes. Some clips on YT if anyone wants to see what they do. Some friends of mine, their mh was broken into during the night when he and his wife were asleep. His wife is a light sleeper and she woke to see a hooded figure inside. Her husband jumped out of bed by which time the thieves had scarpered, switched all lights on including headlights, and blasted the horn. They were on a c/site too so others on site came to see what was going on and called the police who told them there had been three mh break ins that same night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-07 9:44 AM It’s amusing that there has been argument about this for so many years as it really doesn’t matter whether ‘gassing’ actually happens or not. Presumably nobody is going to argue that theft from caravans/motorhomes parked overnight abroad at motorway service-stations or in lay-bys does not occur? In such scenarios, if the occupants of the vehicle remain asleep naturally while the theft is in progress or the theives employ some means to prevent the occupants from waking up, the end result is the same - a theft takes place. Credulity can be valuable and if travellers believe that overnighting abroad at motorway service-stations or in lay-bys risks a gas-attack and theft, that seems to me to be a good thing. Gas-attack reports are more sensational than simple theft reports, and as far as I’m concerned the more widely and sensationally the theft risk is ‘advertised’ the better. A further couple of links https://www.lifesure.co.uk/articles/gas-attacks-on-caravans-and-motorhomes-fact-or-fiction https://www.motorhomefun.co.uk/forum/ams/motorhome-gas-attacks.5/ The downside of this though is that some people might be put off going to France in their motor homes because of the fear of being gassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 I'm going to ask this question again, does anyone actually know somebody who has been gassed or better still is there anyone who has been gassed? If, as some are saying it might be CO poisoning then wouldn't the CO alarm go off? If it is CO poisoning then there would be traces in the blood. To produce CO don't you need a car running and a hose running from the exhaust pipe into the van? Sorry but CO poisoning really is unlikely. I still need convincing but I'll err on the side of caution and ensure doors are locked and alarmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted August 7, 2019 Share Posted August 7, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-08-07 8:37 PM I'm going to ask this question again, does anyone actually know somebody who has been gassed or better still is there anyone who has been gassed? That's firm NO from me on both counts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 stevec176 - 2019-08-07 8:37 PM I'm going to ask this question again, does anyone actually know somebody who has been gassed or better still is there anyone who has been gassed? If, as some are saying it might be CO poisoning then wouldn't the CO alarm go off? If it is CO poisoning then there would be traces in the blood. To produce CO don't you need a car running and a hose running from the exhaust pipe into the van? Sorry but CO poisoning really is unlikely. I still need convincing but I'll err on the side of caution and ensure doors are locked and alarmed. "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan But according to the Forums skeptics they're either liars, fantasists or Insurance scammers.........Just like all the other victims no doubt? *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-08-08 8:36 AM stevec176 - 2019-08-07 8:37 PM I'm going to ask this question again, does anyone actually know somebody who has been gassed or better still is there anyone who has been gassed? If, as some are saying it might be CO poisoning then wouldn't the CO alarm go off? If it is CO poisoning then there would be traces in the blood. To produce CO don't you need a car running and a hose running from the exhaust pipe into the van? Sorry but CO poisoning really is unlikely. I still need convincing but I'll err on the side of caution and ensure doors are locked and alarmed. "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan But according to the Forums skeptics they're either liars, fantasists or Insurance scammers.........Just like all the other victims no doubt? *-) .......... So your answer to Steve's question is no, you've just read a uncorroborated press article where somebody claimed to have been told they had been gassed. Going back to Derek's point, publicising the possibility of being robbed and highlighting the need for caution is certainly beneficial. Adding an element that has never been substantiated, is highly implausible, and serves no purpose but to sell copy by scaring people probably isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I think there is great trouble believing these stories. So apparently a tube is placed up to a vent on the underside of the vehicle to pump in exhaust fumes. So likely in to a cupboard, we assume no co2 alarm. The noise at the end of the pipe would surely be noticeable, they all wake up together at 6.30 am. No ,I don’t believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spospe Posted August 8, 2019 Author Share Posted August 8, 2019 So no one has heard of a case of a van's occupants being gassed at the same time as their dog? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicepix Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 aandy - 2019-08-08 10:51 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-08 8:36 AM stevec176 - 2019-08-07 8:37 PM I'm going to ask this question again, does anyone actually know somebody who has been gassed or better still is there anyone who has been gassed? If, as some are saying it might be CO poisoning then wouldn't the CO alarm go off? If it is CO poisoning then there would be traces in the blood. To produce CO don't you need a car running and a hose running from the exhaust pipe into the van? Sorry but CO poisoning really is unlikely. I still need convincing but I'll err on the side of caution and ensure doors are locked and alarmed. "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan But according to the Forums skeptics they're either liars, fantasists or Insurance scammers.........Just like all the other victims no doubt? *-) .......... So your answer to Steve's question is no, you've just read a uncorroborated press article where somebody claimed to have been told they had been gassed. Going back to Derek's point, publicising the possibility of being robbed and highlighting the need for caution is certainly beneficial. Adding an element that has never been substantiated, is highly implausible, and serves no purpose but to sell copy by scaring people probably isn't. It isn't even as good as that. The French report says: "according to reports in the British press." so they haven't spoken to the Chadwiicks themselves, but just parroted a report published elsewhere. In another life I was a police dog handler and spent some time working in the Dog Training Department. At that time a young police dog was retired early due to inefficiency. They dog should never have been taken on, but that is another story. The dog's handler passed the dog onto a neighbour who was a reporter for the Rotherham local paper. He wrote a short story about taking the dog on and the dog's lack of motivation and reluctance to track criminals. Two days after publication we were inundated initially by local and national press and latterly by newspapers based as far away as Canada and Australia. As the story 'developed' there were accounts of the dog falling asleep during a track and all sorts of nonsense. They were just making it up to sell copy. On another occasion I released my dog to pursue a car thief. The thief and dog collided with a reporter from the same local paper who had heard the crash and come running to see what had happened. So the dog, thief, reporter and his mate all ended up in a muddle with the thief becoming attached to the dog (lol) and the reporter a matter of inches away from the action. His report the next day was headed: 'Police Dogs loose in Maltby'. Dogs plural. There was only one of them. He also got the road name wrong and the time despite him being there at the time on the next road to where he lived. So when a newspaper carries a story that is purely an account of one person with no corroboration, no questions asked and no alternative view I take it with a pinch of salt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevec176 Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 So thats that then, no more to be said unless of course you are the one and only person to have been gassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 Nicepix - 2019-08-08 10:59 AM aandy - 2019-08-08 10:51 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-08 8:36 AM stevec176 - 2019-08-07 8:37 PM I'm going to ask this question again, does anyone actually know somebody who has been gassed or better still is there anyone who has been gassed? If, as some are saying it might be CO poisoning then wouldn't the CO alarm go off? If it is CO poisoning then there would be traces in the blood. To produce CO don't you need a car running and a hose running from the exhaust pipe into the van? Sorry but CO poisoning really is unlikely. I still need convincing but I'll err on the side of caution and ensure doors are locked and alarmed. "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan But according to the Forums skeptics they're either liars, fantasists or Insurance scammers.........Just like all the other victims no doubt? *-) .......... So your answer to Steve's question is no, you've just read a uncorroborated press article where somebody claimed to have been told they had been gassed. Going back to Derek's point, publicising the possibility of being robbed and highlighting the need for caution is certainly beneficial. Adding an element that has never been substantiated, is highly implausible, and serves no purpose but to sell copy by scaring people probably isn't. It isn't even as good as that. The French report says: "according to reports in the British press." so they haven't spoken to the Chadwiicks themselves, but just parroted a report published elsewhere. In another life I was a police dog handler and spent some time working in the Dog Training Department. So you weren't a fireman ;-) .......... When you were a member of the plod kicking in doors :D ......... Was every occupant unconscious? :-S ......... Seems like an easy life if they were >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 aandy - 2019-08-08 9:51 AM pelmetman - 2019-08-08 8:36 AM stevec176 - 2019-08-07 8:37 PM I'm going to ask this question again, does anyone actually know somebody who has been gassed or better still is there anyone who has been gassed? If, as some are saying it might be CO poisoning then wouldn't the CO alarm go off? If it is CO poisoning then there would be traces in the blood. To produce CO don't you need a car running and a hose running from the exhaust pipe into the van? Sorry but CO poisoning really is unlikely. I still need convincing but I'll err on the side of caution and ensure doors are locked and alarmed. "French police were called out and sent the family to hospital for tests, whey they were informed they had been poisoned by gas. They had all suffered carbon monoxide poisoning and were told they could have died." https://www.thelocal.fr/20140812/thieves-gas-british-family-in-their-campervan But according to the Forums skeptics they're either liars, fantasists or Insurance scammers.........Just like all the other victims no doubt? *-) .......... So your answer to Steve's question is no, you've just read a uncorroborated press article where somebody claimed to have been told they had been gassed. Nope ;-) ....... My view is based on common sense and 15 years of reports of similar incidents :-| ......... ie......they started before the tinternet could make them fashionable ;-) ........ Plus in my youth glue sniffing was fashionable amongst those on the wrong tracks, so I doubt experimenting with a bit of CO would faze them :-| ........... ie the kinda stuff some "EXPERT" from the RCoA wouldn't have a fecking clue about >:-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aandy Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 "My view is based on … 15 years of reports of similar incidents" But not one shred of tangible evidence. People have been reporting sightings of the Loch Ness Monster for far longer, also without a shred of evidence, so can we assume you believe that too? "ie......they started before the tinternet could make them fashionable" There were all sorts of weird and wonderful myths flying around long before the internet. "Plus in my youth glue sniffing was fashionable amongst those on the wrong tracks" I've no idea why you think this is relevant, unless you are now saying that they are pumping glue into motorhomes. "ie the kinda stuff some "EXPERT" from the RCoA wouldn't have a fecking clue about" So if you need surgery you will presumably be asking some third rate hack to administer the anaesthetic, since they obviously know so much more than the RCA. To be fair, however, I suspect the kind of journalist who writes this sort of stuff probably knows quite a lot about glue sniffing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 aandy - 2019-08-08 5:58 PM "My view is based on … 15 years of reports of similar incidents" But not one shred of tangible evidence. People have been reporting sightings of the Loch Ness Monster for far longer, also without a shred of evidence, so can we assume you believe that too? I would call umpteen victims "Tangible" Evidence *-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 aandy - 2019-08-08 5:58 PM "My view is based on … 15 years of reports of similar incidents" But not one shred of tangible evidence. People have been reporting sightings of the Loch Ness Monster for far longer, also without a shred of evidence, so can we assume you believe that too? "ie......they started before the tinternet could make them fashionable" There were all sorts of weird and wonderful myths flying around long before the internet. "Plus in my youth glue sniffing was fashionable amongst those on the wrong tracks" I've no idea why you think this is relevant, unless you are now saying that they are pumping glue into motorhomes. It's relevant because the forum intelligentsia seem to think only educated folk can do clever stuff with chemicals ;-) ......... Which begs the question why folk can make bombs out of stuff bought from B&Q? *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keithl Posted August 8, 2019 Share Posted August 8, 2019 I feel this thread has run its course and posters will never agree on the certainty or not of the alleged gassing attacks. I am now freezing this thread before it resorts to a slanging match. Keith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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