FunsterJohn Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-17 10:37 AM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-16 2:42 PM Are you ignorant or lying again? The order to charge on the protesters was given by an over zealous magistrate and was nothing to do with the monarchy. I thought you'd have known that. Apparently not. The Prince Regent clearly supported it. So who is 'ignorant or lying again' *-) You're ignorant and lying. Please show me where the monarch or the government ordered the Yeomanry to charge on the protesters? When are you lot going to put your money where your big mouths are and form a republican political party? Instead of endlessly boring people with your bile why not try to change things? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 10:49 AM You're ignorant and lying. Please show me where the monarch or the government ordered the Yeomanry to charge on the protesters? Please show me where I said they did *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 10:49 AM When are you lot going to put your money where your big mouths are and form a republican political party? Instead of endlessly boring people with your bile why not try to change things? This thread is about remembering those who were murdered at Peterloo. Have you no respect for them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-17 6:24 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 10:49 AM You're ignorant and lying. Please show me where the monarch or the government ordered the Yeomanry to charge on the protesters? Please show me where I said they did *-) Supporting an order is as good as giving the order ... Show something , anything to back up your claim ... Even just a teensie weensie bit of sumat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 17, 2019 Author Share Posted August 17, 2019 Already been done Fast Pat - 2019-08-17 8:45 AM The government declared its support for the actions taken by the magistrates and the army. The Manchester magistrates held a supposedly public meeting on 19 August, so that resolutions supporting the action they had taken three days before could be published. Cotton merchants Archibald Prentice (later editor of The Manchester Times) and Absalom Watkin (a later corn-law reformer), both members of the Little Circle, organised a petition of protest against the violence at St Peter's Field and the validity of the magistrate's meeting. Within a few days it had collected 4,800 signatures.[93] Nevertheless, the Home Secretary, Lord Sidmouth, on 27 August conveyed to the magistrates the thanks of the Prince Regent for their action in the "preservation of the public peace."[6] That public exoneration was met with fierce anger and criticism. During a debate at Hopkins Street Robert Wedderburn declared "The Prince is a fool with his Wonderful letters of thanks ... What is the Prince Regent or King to us, we want no King – he is no use to us."[94] In an open letter, Richard Carlile said: Unless the Prince calls his ministers to account and relieved his people, he would surely be deposed and make them all REPUBLICANS, despite all adherence to ancient and established institutions.[ For a few months following Peterloo it seemed to the authorities that the country was heading towards an armed rebellion. Encouraging them in that belief were two abortive uprisings, in Huddersfield and Burnley, the Yorkshire West Riding Revolt, during the autumn of 1820, and the discovery and foiling of the Cato Street conspiracy to blow up the cabinet that winter.[95] By the end of the year, the government had introduced legislation, later known as the Six Acts, to suppress radical meetings and publications, and by the end of 1820 every significant working-class radical reformer was in jail; civil liberties had declined to an even lower level than they were before Peterloo. Historian Robert Reid has written that "it is not fanciful to compare the restricted freedoms of the British worker in the post-Peterloo period in the early nineteenth century with those of the black South African in the post-Sharpeville period of the late twentieth century."" From Wikipedia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-17 6:40 PM Already been done Fast Pat - 2019-08-17 8:45 AM The government declared its support for the actions taken by the magistrates and the army. The Manchester magistrates held a supposedly public meeting on 19 August, so that resolutions supporting the action they had taken three days before could be published. Cotton merchants Archibald Prentice (later editor of The Manchester Times) and Absalom Watkin (a later corn-law reformer), both members of the Little Circle, organised a petition of protest against the violence at St Peter's Field and the validity of the magistrate's meeting. Within a few days it had collected 4,800 signatures.[93] Nevertheless, the Home Secretary, Lord Sidmouth, on 27 August conveyed to the magistrates the thanks of the Prince Regent for their action in the "preservation of the public peace."[6] That public exoneration was met with fierce anger and criticism. During a debate at Hopkins Street Robert Wedderburn declared "The Prince is a fool with his Wonderful letters of thanks ... What is the Prince Regent or King to us, we want no King – he is no use to us."[94] In an open letter, Richard Carlile said: Unless the Prince calls his ministers to account and relieved his people, he would surely be deposed and make them all REPUBLICANS, despite all adherence to ancient and established institutions.[ For a few months following Peterloo it seemed to the authorities that the country was heading towards an armed rebellion. Encouraging them in that belief were two abortive uprisings, in Huddersfield and Burnley, the Yorkshire West Riding Revolt, during the autumn of 1820, and the discovery and foiling of the Cato Street conspiracy to blow up the cabinet that winter.[95] By the end of the year, the government had introduced legislation, later known as the Six Acts, to suppress radical meetings and publications, and by the end of 1820 every significant working-class radical reformer was in jail; civil liberties had declined to an even lower level than they were before Peterloo. Historian Robert Reid has written that "it is not fanciful to compare the restricted freedoms of the British worker in the post-Peterloo period in the early nineteenth century with those of the black South African in the post-Sharpeville period of the late twentieth century."" From Wikipedia Lets get bang up to date ... The Prince Regent thanked those in keeping "preservation of the public peace" ... https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/pc-andrew-harper-latest-father-says-family-are-absolutely-devastated-after-newlyweds-death-a4215536.html ... Your God Corbyn has done the same pretty much today over the death of one of our fine Policemen ... You guna condemn him ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-17 7:24 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 10:49 AM You're ignorant and lying. Please show me where the monarch or the government ordered the Yeomanry to charge on the protesters? Please show me where I said they did *-) Higher up this thread you stated that the monarchy allowed the Peterloo Massacre. If they allowed it, it necessarily means that they were consulted and gave permission. Where is your evidence? But it's just another lie isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-17 7:27 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 10:49 AM When are you lot going to put your money where your big mouths are and form a republican political party? Instead of endlessly boring people with your bile why not try to change things? This thread is about remembering those who were murdered at Peterloo. Have you no respect for them? Good diversion. Have you no respect for the truth in your obsessive attacks on the monarchy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-08-17 6:58 PM John52 - 2019-08-17 6:40 PM Already been done Fast Pat - 2019-08-17 8:45 AM The government declared its support for the actions taken by the magistrates and the army. The Manchester magistrates held a supposedly public meeting on 19 August, so that resolutions supporting the action they had taken three days before could be published. Cotton merchants Archibald Prentice (later editor of The Manchester Times) and Absalom Watkin (a later corn-law reformer), both members of the Little Circle, organised a petition of protest against the violence at St Peter's Field and the validity of the magistrate's meeting. Within a few days it had collected 4,800 signatures.[93] Nevertheless, the Home Secretary, Lord Sidmouth, on 27 August conveyed to the magistrates the thanks of the Prince Regent for their action in the "preservation of the public peace."[6] That public exoneration was met with fierce anger and criticism. During a debate at Hopkins Street Robert Wedderburn declared "The Prince is a fool with his Wonderful letters of thanks ... What is the Prince Regent or King to us, we want no King – he is no use to us."[94] In an open letter, Richard Carlile said: Unless the Prince calls his ministers to account and relieved his people, he would surely be deposed and make them all REPUBLICANS, despite all adherence to ancient and established institutions.[ For a few months following Peterloo it seemed to the authorities that the country was heading towards an armed rebellion. Encouraging them in that belief were two abortive uprisings, in Huddersfield and Burnley, the Yorkshire West Riding Revolt, during the autumn of 1820, and the discovery and foiling of the Cato Street conspiracy to blow up the cabinet that winter.[95] By the end of the year, the government had introduced legislation, later known as the Six Acts, to suppress radical meetings and publications, and by the end of 1820 every significant working-class radical reformer was in jail; civil liberties had declined to an even lower level than they were before Peterloo. Historian Robert Reid has written that "it is not fanciful to compare the restricted freedoms of the British worker in the post-Peterloo period in the early nineteenth century with those of the black South African in the post-Sharpeville period of the late twentieth century."" From Wikipedia Lets get bang up to date ... The Prince Regent thanked those in keeping "preservation of the public peace" ... https://www.standard.co.uk/news/crime/pc-andrew-harper-latest-father-says-family-are-absolutely-devastated-after-newlyweds-death-a4215536.html ... Your God Corbyn has done the same pretty much today over the death of one of our fine Policemen ... You guna condemn him ??? Corbyn is not my God - I just think Johnson is worse. Other than that I haven't a clue what you are on about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted August 18, 2019 Author Share Posted August 18, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 7:05 PM Good diversion. Reminding you of the thread topic is not a diversion. I ask again, Have you any respect for the people murdered by His Majesty's Forces at Peterloo? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-16 5:33 PM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-16 2:50 PM the people mainly responsible are actually liberal minded parliamentarians. only because the political activists got us the right to vote them in. The most oppressed countries have strong armies and monarchs, like Britain had when it was most oppressed. Yet by your mad hatter logic it was them who won our freedoms *-) I was amused by your comment above. Over the last few decades which peoples do you think enjoyed the greatest freedoms? The British, Swedish, Dutch, Danish, Japanese to name a few monarchies, or the citizens of republics such as the USSR, DDR, China, North Korea, Cuba and Cambodia? At least the subjects in our regularly-elected constitutional monarchy didn't starve to death in their millions. You do write some utter twaddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-18 9:17 AM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 7:05 PM Good diversion. Reminding you of the thread topic is not a diversion. I ask again, Have you any respect for the people murdered by His Majesty's Forces at Peterloo? Of course it's another pathetic diversion by a man who's in a corner again. What has my respect for the victims got to do with the discussion about who is responsible for our freedoms, which is the question you asked? You've been found out again by claiming that the monarch and government 'allowed' the massacre. Now you're doing your usual underhand trick of diverting from the real topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fast Pat Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 FunsterJohn - 2019-08-18 8:29 AM John52 - 2019-08-18 9:17 AM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 7:05 PM Good diversion. Reminding you of the thread topic is not a diversion. I ask again, Have you any respect for the people murdered by His Majesty's Forces at Peterloo? Of course it's another pathetic diversion by a man who's in a corner again. What has my respect for the victims got to do with the discussion about who is responsible for our freedoms, which is the question you asked? You've been found out again by claiming that the monarch and government 'allowed' the massacre. Now you're doing your usual underhand trick of diverting from the real topic. Not only did they allow the massacre, as evidenced by the British Library "From government came an official sanction of the magistrates’ and yeomanry’s actions, and the passing of the Six Acts, a paranoid legal crackdown on the freedoms of the public and press. Among this new legislation was the requirement for any public meeting on church or state matters of more than 50 people to obtain the permission of a sheriff or magistrate, and the toughening of the laws that punished authors of blasphemous or seditious material." https://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victorians/articles/the-peterloo-massacre The government and monarchy continued to utilise the Six Acts against protesters asking for a vote with deaths across the country from Peterloo right through to the Chartists and beyond. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 When all you have left is trying to make some point out of an incident 200 years ago and turning it on The Royals you really need to look how bitter youve become ... Dear oh dear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Fast Pat - 2019-08-18 10:14 AM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-18 8:29 AM John52 - 2019-08-18 9:17 AM FunsterJohn - 2019-08-17 7:05 PM Good diversion. Reminding you of the thread topic is not a diversion. I ask again, Have you any respect for the people murdered by His Majesty's Forces at Peterloo? Of course it's another pathetic diversion by a man who's in a corner again. What has my respect for the victims got to do with the discussion about who is responsible for our freedoms, which is the question you asked? You've been found out again by claiming that the monarch and government 'allowed' the massacre. Now you're doing your usual underhand trick of diverting from the real topic. Not only did they allow the massacre, as evidenced by the British Library "From government came an official sanction of the magistrates’ and yeomanry’s actions, and the passing of the Six Acts, a paranoid legal crackdown on the freedoms of the public and press. Among this new legislation was the requirement for any public meeting on church or state matters of more than 50 people to obtain the permission of a sheriff or magistrate, and the toughening of the laws that punished authors of blasphemous or seditious material." https://www.bl.uk/romantics-and-victorians/articles/the-peterloo-massacre The government and monarchy continued to utilise the Six Acts against protesters asking for a vote with deaths across the country from Peterloo right through to the Chartists and beyond. But you still haven't shown me where anyone, except Hulton, was responsible for the order to send in the Yeomanry. He was a stupid hard line magistrate with the mores and attitudes of two centuries ago, but he and only he was responsible for what happened. I look forward to some real proof that a higher authority was responsible for this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunsterJohn Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-08-18 10:18 AM When all you have left is trying to make some point out of an incident 200 years ago and turning it on The Royals you really need to look how bitter youve become ... Dear oh dear Because the man is hateful and obsessed with the monarchy. But like all republicans he hasn't got the courage to form a party and put it to the people. Instead the poor dear is reduced to bleating on a motorhome forum. It's so sad really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teflon2 Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 John52 - 2019-08-16 11:27 AM or at least what freedoms we have. It wasn't the Establishment Royalty, their Military or Politicians. It was these guys. https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/aug/16/manchester-gets-ready-for-noisy-tribute-to-the-dead-of-peterloo Don't let the Establishment tell you they won our freedom. *-) But compare the monuments we have to the guys who really won our Freedom, with the monuments we have to Royalty etc - who never lifted a finger to help us. The start of our freedoms were inadvertently made by the Barons who initiated the Magna Carta which made law that they should be judged only by their peers not realising that eventually the serfs would become freemen and be able to own property. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted August 19, 2019 Share Posted August 19, 2019 Not one of you have mentioned the fear caused by the recent French Revolution and the Establishment panicking about the same happening in the UK. There had already been riots and various incidents by the Luddites a few years earlier. The Monarchy and Government were in crisis. Only 18 dead? I think we got off lightly compared to the mob rule in France of the time and the rise (and fall) of Napoleon Bonaparte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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