fesspark Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 I have had a zenec ze 3715 multi media fitted in my m,home, it does not switch on/off except if the ignition is on, so no good in my 2018,ixeo 680G, any one any idea,s as to help me out of this predicament ? it was fitted to replace my pioneer equally unsuitable? Fesspark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EJB Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 It is connected to an ignition switched feed. Needs reconnecting to a constant live feed....should be a simple exercise. Get the 'fitter' to reconnect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 The Zenec Z-E3715 head-unit is a "CAR SPECIFIC NAVICEIVER FOR FIAT VEHICLES” and is described here http://www.acr.ch/uploads/media/Z-E3715_UserManual_Web_EN.pdf https://www.caraudiocentre.co.uk/product_m-zenec-z-e3715_p-32936.htm and this video indicates that it ought to be compatible with a Ducato/Boxer/Relay The video seems to suggest that - if the vehicle is already fitted with a Fiat radio-unit - installing a Z-E3715 may just involve disconnecting the cabling from the Fiat radio and connecting the cabling to the Zenec replacement, but Robert’s motorhome had a Pioneer unit originally. Pioneer double-DIN head-units have tended to be aimed at cars that have an ignition-switch with an ‘AUX’ position, and the ignition-switch of recentish Ducato/Boxer/Relays does not have this. The Pioneer AVH-X2700BT head-unit that Rapido were factory-fitting to motorhomes when I bought mine has no ON/OFF switch. It’s intended to be operable when a vehicle’s ignition-switch is in its ‘motor running’ position or, when the motor is stopped, in the switch’s AUX position - except my Ducato-based Rapido’s ignition-switch has no AUX position and, if the Pioneer head-unit were simply connected to a constant ‘live’ 12V feed, the Pioneer unit could not be switched off. Because of this Rapido puts a separate dashboard-mounted switch in a constant live 12V feed to the Pioneer head-unit so that the head-unit can be turned on and off when the motorhome’s motor is not running. Other motorhome manufacturers who have factory-fitted similar Pioneer units have chosen to switch them on and off via the motorhome’s main control-panel - a method that carries other issues. The User Manual for the Zenec Z-E3715 indicates that the unit’s VOLUME control-knob is also used to switch the unit on and off (Hurrah!) but if Dethleffs chose to provide ‘motor off’ 12V power to the Pioneer unit through the motorhome’s control-panel and the fitter has not altered that arrangement, a switch on the Dethleffs control-panel may need to be operated to get the Zenec unit to function when the motorhome’s motor is stopped. The Zenec User Manual also says POWER ON/OFF Correctly installed, your device will power on together with the ignition of the vehicle. Ignition off: It's not possible to turn on the device. When the ignition is activated, you may switch the device on and off anytime, using the front panel POWER/VOL button. However - as EJB says - there’s no overriding-all-else reason preventing the Zenec head-unit being provided with a constant live 12V feed that would permit it to operate with the vehicle’s ignition switched off. The potential downside would be that - if the Zenec unit were left switched on - it would eventually run down the battery powering it as I don’t think the unit has any ‘cut off’ feature to switch it off after (say) 60 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deneb Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-17 9:33 AM The Zenec User Manual also says POWER ON/OFF Correctly installed, your device will power on together with the ignition of the vehicle. Ignition off: It's not possible to turn on the device. When the ignition is activated, you may switch the device on and off anytime, using the front panel POWER/VOL button. And on page 3 it also says "Be careful not to drain the car battery while using the unit when the car engine is turned off." Somewhat contradictory. Perhaps they need a new proof reader! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 As has been stated, you need a permanent live feed, not an ignition switched one, to achieve on-site use. This can be done by rearranging the current wiring slightly, but, that does leave some risk of depleting the vehicle battery. Since it would appear that some re-wiring will be necessary if you wish to use the unit without the engine running (or at least, ignition on), I'd suggest you explore the option of having it wired to the habitation battery(ies) rather than the existing vehicle wiring. If, as I suspect is the case, you have a Schaudt Electrobloc, then subject to being able to run twin-core (live and earth) wiring from the Elektrobloc to the back of the dash this is a simple job for a auto electrician, and also a simple DIY job if you have confidence and a little knowledge, I did exactly this in my last 'van (and many others have also). It can and does give you an "always-on" facility, and also ultimately protection against draining the vehicle battery (since that is no longer powering the unit). I prefer to run to the Electrobloc rather than direct to the leisure battery(ies) (though if routing a wire is difficult, the latter is also acceptable with appropriate fusing) since one can usually (always) find an appropriate, unused, output on the Schaudt electrics that provides for connection, fusing etc. Depending on the output chosen and used, you need a couple of Mate n'Lock pins, possibly a Mate n'Lock plug if the slot you wish to use is currently without a plug, a fuse, an appropriate length of (say 16 amp) thinwall automotive twin-core, and some (probably bullet) connectors to jump the wiring at the back of the radio. All these items are easily and cheaply obtained. The appropriate connection points on the Electrobloc are easily determined by block diagram (but differ by Electrobloc model) and using the pins (crimped to the twin core) an existing connector block in the appropriate place on the Electrobloc can have the pins inserted, or, if the whole connector block is unpopulated, an appropriate new connector can be populated and added. The twin core is then run to the rear of the radio, (particularly easy if the Electrobloc happens to be under a front seat) where the earth is attached to the earth input, and the live to both the permanent live input (the one that maintains the radio memory, etc) and to the (formerly) ignition switched input. That is just about all (though the Electrobloc will need a fuse inserting in a pre-defined slot appropriate to the extra circuit now used. A couple of further points - some of the circuits on the Electrobloc are switched by the control panel, some are not, and this applies to the spare, unused positions as well. You may choose either - patently if you choose one that is switched by the control panel, then this will have to be switched on to use the radio. I chose to use an unswitched outlet, meaning the radio was permanently powered, and only interrupted by the radio on/off. However, it would appear that some radios, even when switched off, consume more current than that required by the permanent memory feed. Accordingly, to avoid problems of continuous drain, I added a dash-mounted automotive rocker switch in the (previously ignition-switched) main feed to ensure that I could isolate everything other than the "memory" power when completely out of use. I've seen them mounted into all sorts of positions in the dash - to avoid any irreversible damage, I mounted mine in the removable blanking plate in the lower dash which is used for USB/aux sockets for the factory fit radio, easy to drill, easy and cheap to replace. It may sound complex, I can assure you it isn't (and could probably give more detailed advice if I knew the Electrobloc model). ==== As I say, I did this on my last 'van. The current one came with a somewhat more sophisticated arrangement. The radio wiring incorporates a separate Schaudt RAD 01 relay/control box. In normal use, this ensures the radio is supplied via the vehicle battery, turning on and off with the ignition. An override switch on the dash, however, connects the radio instead to the leisure battery(ies), with no ignition interruption. (The description is only in German, and this isn't what it says it does, but perusal of the circuit diagram, and checking the current flows, confirms that is exactly how it works). I can't find the RAD 01 as an aftermarket item anywhere, and it looks a bit like Teutonic over-engineering to me anyway. The more simple method outlined above should be quite enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
monique.hubrechtsgm Posted August 17, 2019 Share Posted August 17, 2019 I had that called head unit once. It has also on top a Cd player. And My favor CD- was blocked inside. The dealer said we have to pull it out and send it to Zenec germany. Including all other benefits lost for a month. Since than i hate head units in the dash of a fiat ducato. Also fiat ducato it selves and motorhomes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Some background to Robert’s request for help may be in order. In the following April 2019 forum thread Robert mentioned warranty work relating to his Burstner motorhome https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/warranty-work-legality-/51745/ Subsequently, in recompense for problems with the under-warranty work, Robert’s motorhome dealer agreed (amongst other things) to replace the Burstner’s Pioneer head-unit with a Zenec Z-E3715. Consequently, if the Zenec unit is not functioning as Robert anticipates it should do (and there’s no doubt that, for a motorhome application, any head-unit should be usable when the vehicle’s ignition-switch is Off) it’s 100% the dealer’s responsibility to ensure that this happens. Installation instructions for the Zenec Z-E3715 are on this link http://www.acr.ch/uploads/media/Z-E3715_MountingInstructions_DE-EN.pdf My understanding is that it’s a ‘Plug-and-Play’ unit designed to be easily connectable to a Ducato’s OE radio cabling. The E-3715 has been superseded, but there was discussion about it in January 2019 here https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-ducatto-2015-Burstner-Nexxo-soverign-Zenec-e3715/51154/ from which it’s plain that some current forum members should be in a position to comment on the Zenec unit’s use with the the motorhome’s ignition switched off (and perhaps whether the unit might be incompatible with Robert’s 2018 Ducato Euro 6). As I see it there are three possible scenarios: 1: The Zenec unit in Robert’s motorhome can be operated with the vehicle’s ignition off, but Robert has not been made aware of how this can be done. If that’s so, the motorhome dealer should be able to advise. 2: The Zenec unit in Robert’s motorhome cannot be operated with the iginition off, and that’s the way the unit is designed to operate if the unit is just ‘plug-to-plug’ connected to a Ducato’s pre-installed radio cabling. 3: The Zenec unit in Robert’s motorhome cannot be operated with the iginition off because it has not been installed correctly. In all three cases it seems that there is no realistic alternative to Robert getting the motorhome dealer involved with the ignition-related issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 ....Derek, I've installed both Zenec and Xzent (their second brand) radios in motorhomes. The wiring as supplied provides connection to the vehicle standard permanent "memory retaining" supply, and an ignition switched main supply. As such, with an unmodified loom, the unit will only work with the ignition on. Interpreting the OP's comments, this was also the case with the Pioneer it replaced, suggesting that both were connected plug and play to such an unmodified loom. As suggested by EJB in the first reply, the normal remedy for this is to source a permanently live (not ignition switched) supply and replace the single (previously ignition switched) connection. This can be done in a number of ways, and at the most basic, it is very simple. As you pointed out, however, such connection increases the danger of draining the vehicle battery whilst on site. This can be ameliorated/removed by providing the power connections to the radio from the leisure battery instead. In many cases, this is not a significant amount of extra work, and is well worthwhile if the radio is to be used regularly whilst on-site. So, fundamentally (subject to additional circuitry not being found) I would suspect: - working as designed (but not as desired) - fixable very simply (as EJB's suggestion - quite often simply by using the permanent live feed to connect to both inputs, and forgetting the ignition switched feed.) - more functional and elegant to fix by augmenting the above to connect to the leisure battery(ies) instead and include a switch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 I agree, though if the Pioneer head-unit was like my Rapido’s, it would not have been specifically intended for a Ducato and to have Plug & Play installation, but aimed at any vehicle with an AUX position on the ignition-switch. My reason for providing some background to this warranty-problem business (which Robert has discussed with me via PM between April and now) is that - whatever is causing the Zenec unit to not operate as Robert wishes - it is the dealer’s responsibility to sort this out and, if wiring modifications need to be made, Robert will not be performing that task. If, as seems probable, the Zenec unit currently gets its 12V power from the vehicle’s starter battery, it’s anybody’s guess if the dealer would be prepared to change that feed to the leisure battery, despite this being preferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-18 11:10 AM If, as seems probable, the Zebecc unit currently gets its 12V power from the vehicle’s starter battery, it’s anybody’s guess if the dealer would be prepared to change that feed to the leisure battery, despite this being preferable. ...it certainly is; but if you don't ask, you don't get. ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robinhood Posted August 18, 2019 Share Posted August 18, 2019 BTW, just noticed this: Derek Uzzell - 2019-08-17 9:33 AM and this video indicates that it ought to be compatible with a Ducato/Boxer/Relay The video seems to suggest that - if the vehicle is already fitted with a Fiat radio-unit - installing a Z-E3715 may just involve disconnecting the cabling from the Fiat radio and connecting the cabling to the Zenec replacement, but Robert’s motorhome had a Pioneer unit originally. ....these Zenec (Ducato compatible) units are designed to fit the Ducato which left the factory with "radio prep", but not those that had a factory (Fiat) radio fitted. (replacing the latter with a non-Fiat radio generally has Canbus issues that have proven "interesting" to overcome. The Youtube video shows the replacement of an aftermarket (Alpine) radio with the Zenec unit, and the Caraudiocentre link from your recent post carries the following compatibility information. Vehicle Compatibility: FIAT Ducato III 2006 - 2011 FIAT Ducato III EURO 5 2011 - 2014 FIAT Ducato III EURO 5 from 2014 CITROEN Jumper II from 2006 PEUGEOT Boxer II from 2006 Please note: The vehicle needs to feature OE radio provision for the installation of the device. The Z-E3715 is not compatible with vehicles that are factory fitted with an OE radio (Delphi). Many motor manufacturers are nowadays supplying vehicles without an "Acc" position, or at least one that is in conjunction with radio timer protection to avoid leaving the radio active for long periods without the engine running. The issue under discussion here largely arises as a result of Fiat's design decisions in this space (though, in addressing the motorhome market, one might have thought that Zenec might give some hint about the ease of overcoming the issue in their installation procedures). === BTW, I am living proof that draining the battery is a real threat. My 'van was recently left with a dealer (who shall remain nameless) for a (warranty required) damp-check and a very small amount of warranty work. They are remote from me, and it was left Mon-Fri (they supplied a courtesy car). When it was finally parked up awaiting collection, the mechanic had switched on the override switch (presumably to use the rear-view camera for parking, though it didn't need it, since the radio power comes on with the ignition anyway) and had left the 'van parked, with the camera on and displaying, but the radio muted, for, I suspect, a couple of days. The leisure batteries were at around 50% (though that was still under load) when I picked it up. My displeasure was registered, with a potential claim for £400 of new batteries if the existing ones showed any negative signs (luckily, they haven't so far - performance off grid is as expected, but if I hadn't doubled the capacity after purchase, a single battery wouldn't have hacked it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.