747 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 John52 - 2019-10-28 6:27 AM 747 - 2019-10-27 3:56 PM John52 - 2019-10-27 3:13 PM 747 - 2019-10-27 11:40 AM Their Pension Scheme was changed a while back and it is no longer as good as it once was. How does it compare to private sector job security / pensions *-) (Last time I looked you needed to save north of £1million to buy the equivalent of a public sector pension. ) Well go and look again and come back when you have got it right. Ah Since you were presenting yourself as an authority on public sector pensions I thought you might know something about it and be able to tell us *-) I am not an authority on Pensions of any kind. I just happen to have a Son who is a Firefighter and he has discussed it with me. He pays around 14% of his wages into his Pension as opposed to 5% or 6% in other Company Pension schemes. You might even remember a while back there was talk of a Strike by Firefighters about the changes the Government wanted to make to their Pension Scheme. Firefighters are different to you, they don't have the means to invest large sums in Offshore Tax Free Accounts like you and depend on a Pension to have a decent standard of living when retired. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 747 - 2019-10-28 9:04 AM John52 - 2019-10-28 6:27 AM 747 - 2019-10-27 3:56 PM John52 - 2019-10-27 3:13 PM 747 - 2019-10-27 11:40 AM Their Pension Scheme was changed a while back and it is no longer as good as it once was. How does it compare to private sector job security / pensions *-) (Last time I looked you needed to save north of £1million to buy the equivalent of a public sector pension. ) Well go and look again and come back when you have got it right. Ah Since you were presenting yourself as an authority on public sector pensions I thought you might know something about it and be able to tell us *-) I am not an authority on Pensions of any kind. I just happen to have a Son who is a Firefighter and he has discussed it with me. He pays around 14% of his wages into his Pension as opposed to 5% or 6% in other Company Pension schemes. You might even remember a while back there was talk of a Strike by Firefighters about the changes the Government wanted to make to their Pension Scheme. Firefighters are different to you, they don't have the means to invest large sums in Offshore Tax Free Accounts like you and depend on a Pension to have a decent standard of living when retired. I don't have any tax free accounts, all the investments I have could be made by a public sector employee as easy for them as it was for me. Seriously the thing about public sector pensions is they are index linked - which is now virtually unheard of in the private sector. With the National Debt piling up, BoJo saying 'F*ck business', Brexit whatever the cost, and throwing around pre-election spending promises like confetti, Actuaries daren't guess what inflation will be. Many pension companies won't offer index linking at all and those who do are hideously expensive. I saw the public sector unions pension demonstrations. I was staggered to see the public sector unions posters trying to associate themselves with the Tolpuddle Martyrs 8-) yes really 8-) And Teachers chanting down anyone who tried to talk with "No Ifs No Buts No pensions cuts". What an example of reasoned argument to set to children. Let them go on strike - I wouldn't want them teaching my kids. They seemed to think they were employed by some Grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the General Public!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 John52 - 2019-10-28 9:28 AM 747 - 2019-10-28 9:04 AM John52 - 2019-10-28 6:27 AM 747 - 2019-10-27 3:56 PM John52 - 2019-10-27 3:13 PM 747 - 2019-10-27 11:40 AM Their Pension Scheme was changed a while back and it is no longer as good as it once was. How does it compare to private sector job security / pensions *-) (Last time I looked you needed to save north of £1million to buy the equivalent of a public sector pension. ) Well go and look again and come back when you have got it right. Ah Since you were presenting yourself as an authority on public sector pensions I thought you might know something about it and be able to tell us *-) I am not an authority on Pensions of any kind. I just happen to have a Son who is a Firefighter and he has discussed it with me. He pays around 14% of his wages into his Pension as opposed to 5% or 6% in other Company Pension schemes. You might even remember a while back there was talk of a Strike by Firefighters about the changes the Government wanted to make to their Pension Scheme. Firefighters are different to you, they don't have the means to invest large sums in Offshore Tax Free Accounts like you and depend on a Pension to have a decent standard of living when retired. I don't have any tax free accounts, all the investments I have could be made by a public sector employee as easy for them as it was for me. Seriously the thing about public sector pensions is they are index linked - which is now virtually unheard of in the private sector. With the National Debt piling up, BoJo saying 'F*ck business', Brexit whatever the cost, and throwing around pre-election spending promises like confetti, Actuaries daren't guess what inflation will be. Many pension companies won't offer index linking at all and those who do are hideously expensive. I saw the public sector unions pension demonstrations. I was staggered to see the public sector unions posters trying to associate themselves with the Tolpuddle Martyrs 8-) yes really 8-) And Teachers chanting down anyone who tried to talk with "No Ifs No Buts No pensions cuts". What an example of reasoned argument to set to children. Let them go on strike - I wouldn't want them teaching my kids. They seemed to think they were employed by some Grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the General Public!! Don’t disagree, perhaps that was also why austerity was so necessary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-10-26 7:03 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-26 6:48 PM jumpstart - 2019-10-26 3:04 PM...……………...I too wondered why pay 30,000 to get smuggled in a container. Then listen to, or watch, the news, or read a newspaper, and you'll find out. Or maybe live in an area that has already an abundance of Chinese/Vietnamese working under the radar with the riches of money they are prolly earning compared to back home ... Not in leafy East Sussex though Irrelevant, as usual. Doesn't address Jumpstarts question. Why do they pay so much? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Let’s not forget the trafficked are unlikely to have spent any money. They and their families are usually in hock to the traffickers for the huge amounts payable for their journey. It is about time that the people of the UK stopped giving their custom to businesses so obviously run by slave masters. Clean your own car, paint your own nails and don’t buy skunk. Quite. From what I have read and seen, most of the Vietnamese illegals are from a particularly impoverished part of that country, which has become heavily dependent on "remittances" from abroad. The families raise the cash by borrowing, or by mortgaging their land, dealing with local fixers who, through their external contacts, arrange transit. It is unlikely that the families know, or understand the full risks involved, and it is implied that at least some of the fixers don't know the full facts either. The most likely source of smugglers for the final leg to UK is France, as it has long-standing associations with Vietnam, and has many Vietnamese, or ex Vietnamese, residents. The initial stages appear to rely on air flights to Russia and elsewhere, apparently on forged Chinese passports. The children/relatives thus sent carry the burden of knowing that their family is relying on them to send back sufficient money to a) repay the debt, b) enhance their living standards and c) that if they fail ruin or worse awaits their family. These are generally not well educated people, and from the numbers of Vietnamese illegally already in UK, it seems to be a well worn trail, so they are ripe to be duped on reports of previous success. It is an example of how the ill-educated innocent and gullible can be conned by the ambitious and ruthless. It is pointless blaming the victims (which include the families). The villains are elsewhere along that long supply chain, and in UK providing cheap but illegal black market employment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 12:03 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Clean your own car. Quite. I take it that, unlike millions of others, you have a private space near your house to clean your car Brian ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
747 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 John52 - 2019-10-28 9:28 AM 747 - 2019-10-28 9:04 AM John52 - 2019-10-28 6:27 AM 747 - 2019-10-27 3:56 PM John52 - 2019-10-27 3:13 PM 747 - 2019-10-27 11:40 AM Their Pension Scheme was changed a while back and it is no longer as good as it once was. How does it compare to private sector job security / pensions *-) (Last time I looked you needed to save north of £1million to buy the equivalent of a public sector pension. ) Well go and look again and come back when you have got it right. Ah Since you were presenting yourself as an authority on public sector pensions I thought you might know something about it and be able to tell us *-) I am not an authority on Pensions of any kind. I just happen to have a Son who is a Firefighter and he has discussed it with me. He pays around 14% of his wages into his Pension as opposed to 5% or 6% in other Company Pension schemes. You might even remember a while back there was talk of a Strike by Firefighters about the changes the Government wanted to make to their Pension Scheme. Firefighters are different to you, they don't have the means to invest large sums in Offshore Tax Free Accounts like you and depend on a Pension to have a decent standard of living when retired. I don't have any tax free accounts, all the investments I have could be made by a public sector employee as easy for them as it was for me. Seriously the thing about public sector pensions is they are index linked - which is now virtually unheard of in the private sector. With the National Debt piling up, BoJo saying 'F*ck business', Brexit whatever the cost, and throwing around pre-election spending promises like confetti, Actuaries daren't guess what inflation will be. Many pension companies won't offer index linking at all and those who do are hideously expensive. I saw the public sector unions pension demonstrations. I was staggered to see the public sector unions posters trying to associate themselves with the Tolpuddle Martyrs 8-) yes really 8-) And Teachers chanting down anyone who tried to talk with "No Ifs No Buts No pensions cuts". What an example of reasoned argument to set to children. Let them go on strike - I wouldn't want them teaching my kids. They seemed to think they were employed by some Grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the General Public!! Did you work in a sewage works? Because you spew out lots of sh*te. A quick google proves that your above post is complete nonsense ... as usual. https://fullfact.org/news/how-generous-are-firefighters-pensions/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 John52 - 2019-10-28 12:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 12:03 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Clean your own car. Quite. I take it that, unlike millions of others, you have a private space near your house to clean your car Brian ;-) You're taking my post too literally John. My fault perhaps as it may have been an excess of poetic licence. All I was trying to say was that we all need to be vigilant regarding services or goods that are ridiculously cheap. If we reduce demand for these things then the "pull factor" for the impoverished and gullible will diminish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 11:37 AM Birdbrain - 2019-10-26 7:03 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-26 6:48 PM jumpstart - 2019-10-26 3:04 PM...……………...I too wondered why pay 30,000 to get smuggled in a container. Then listen to, or watch, the news, or read a newspaper, and you'll find out. Or maybe live in an area that has already an abundance of Chinese/Vietnamese working under the radar with the riches of money they are prolly earning compared to back home ... Not in leafy East Sussex though Irrelevant, as usual. Doesn't address Jumpstarts question. Why do they pay so much? Ask them ... You might need to take a journey out of leafy East Sussex though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 12:03 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Let’s not forget the trafficked are unlikely to have spent any money. They and their families are usually in hock to the traffickers for the huge amounts payable for their journey. It is about time that the people of the UK stopped giving their custom to businesses so obviously run by slave masters. Clean your own car, paint your own nails and don’t buy skunk. Quite. From what I have read and seen, most of the Vietnamese illegals are from a particularly impoverished part of that country, which has become heavily dependent on "remittances" from abroad. The families raise the cash by borrowing, or by mortgaging their land, dealing with local fixers who, through their external contacts, arrange transit. It is unlikely that the families know, or understand the full risks involved, and it is implied that at least some of the fixers don't know the full facts either. The most likely source of smugglers for the final leg to UK is France, as it has long-standing associations with Vietnam, and has many Vietnamese, or ex Vietnamese, residents. The initial stages appear to rely on air flights to Russia and elsewhere, apparently on forged Chinese passports. The children/relatives thus sent carry the burden of knowing that their family is relying on them to send back sufficient money to a) repay the debt, b) enhance their living standards and c) that if they fail ruin or worse awaits their family. These are generally not well educated people, and from the numbers of Vietnamese illegally already in UK, it seems to be a well worn trail, so they are ripe to be duped on reports of previous success. It is an example of how the ill-educated innocent and gullible can be conned by the ambitious and ruthless. It is pointless blaming the victims (which include the families). The villains are elsewhere along that long supply chain, and in UK providing cheap but illegal black market employment. This report from Ch4 news shows the routes used; https://www.channel4.com/news/essex-lorry-driver-charged-with-39-counts-of-manslaughter-and-conspiracy-to-traffic-people As Veronica said it's unlikely any of those trafficked paid their way, certainly not in full, so they would be in debt to the smugglers. It's been reported each paid up to £30k. Ch4 news spoke to an anti-trafficking advocate based in Vietnam who told how £30k is equivalent to 30 years pay for the average Vietnamese. Whilst i accept some may need fake passports, not every Vietnamese would. A return airfare (you wouldn't buy a single) from Vietnam to Heathrow can be bought for as little as £720. As a determined economic migrant in hope of a better life, i'd sooner take the chance of entering as a tourist and disappear under the radar than risk my life in a metal box with no way out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 1:07 PM John52 - 2019-10-28 12:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 12:03 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Clean your own car. Quite. I take it that, unlike millions of others, you have a private space near your house to clean your car Brian ;-) You're taking my post too literally John. My fault perhaps as it may have been an excess of poetic licence. All I was trying to say was that we all need to be vigilant regarding services or goods that are ridiculously cheap. If we reduce demand for these things then the "pull factor" for the impoverished and gullible will diminish. I'd say "it's our Liberal judicial bourgeois" that needs to look at itself Veronica *-) ......... A few months or years in one of Her Madges Pleasure parks with cheap drugs on tap 8-) .......Is hardly likely to curb criminal activity ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 1:07 PM . All I was trying to say was that we all need to be vigilant regarding services or goods that are ridiculously cheap. The fact that everyone wants everything to be as cheap as possible is why all our industries have gone to the far east / India, and Eastern Europe. That's what globalisation is about. :-| Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. You're making it sound like Communist Vietnam being poor is our fault? 8-) ........ They won the war against the Americans years ago ;-) ......... Kinda looks like the Communist utopia some on here crave, has proved YET AGAIN not to be so great in the reality >:-) ........ But then again Happy Clappy Liberal/Lefties have never liked reality (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 malc d - 2019-10-28 3:26 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 1:07 PM . All I was trying to say was that we all need to be vigilant regarding services or goods that are ridiculously cheap. The fact that everyone wants everything to be as cheap as possible is why all our industries have gone to the far east / India, and Eastern Europe. That's what globalisation is about. :-| Agreed ;-) ........ Which is why the UK is well placed to prosper B-) ............ If we ignore the mass market and concentrate on the niche markets :D ........ It worked for me decades ago :-D ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-28 3:24 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 1:07 PM John52 - 2019-10-28 12:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 12:03 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Clean your own car. Quite. I think we are in agreement on this Dave, surprise, suprise eh? I take it that, unlike millions of others, you have a private space near your house to clean your car Brian ;-) You're taking my post too literally John. My fault perhaps as it may have been an excess of poetic licence. All I was trying to say was that we all need to be vigilant regarding services or goods that are ridiculously cheap. If we reduce demand for these things then the "pull factor" for the impoverished and gullible will diminish. I'd say "it's our Liberal judicial bourgeois" that needs to look at itself Veronica *-) ......... A few months or years in one of Her Madges Pleasure parks with cheap drugs on tap 8-) .......Is hardly likely to curb criminal activity ;-) ........ I think you and I may have reached agreement on this subject Dave. Allelujia. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet1956 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-28 3:32 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. You're making it sound like Communist Vietnam being poor is our fault? 8-) ........ They won the war against the Americans years ago ;-) ......... Kinda looks like the Communist utopia some on here crave, has proved YET AGAIN not to be so great in the reality >:-) ........ But then again Happy Clappy Liberal/Lefties have never liked reality (lol) (lol) (lol) .......... That's not what I intended Dave. I do not hold the UK responsible for the poverty in Vietnam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Up to 6 months on a standard visitor visa. Money could be raised via the many finance companies there. Like UK they seem to have plenty of them. Yanking up the drawbridge to fortress UK won't stop this from happening. https://www.migrationexpert.co.uk/visitor_visa/tourist_visitor_visa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:37 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-28 3:24 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 1:07 PM John52 - 2019-10-28 12:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 12:03 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Clean your own car. Quite. I think we are in agreement on this Dave, surprise, suprise eh? I take it that, unlike millions of others, you have a private space near your house to clean your car Brian ;-) You're taking my post too literally John. My fault perhaps as it may have been an excess of poetic licence. All I was trying to say was that we all need to be vigilant regarding services or goods that are ridiculously cheap. If we reduce demand for these things then the "pull factor" for the impoverished and gullible will diminish. I'd say "it's our Liberal judicial bourgeois" that needs to look at itself Veronica *-) ......... A few months or years in one of Her Madges Pleasure parks with cheap drugs on tap 8-) .......Is hardly likely to curb criminal activity ;-) ........ I think you and I may have reached agreement on this subject Dave. Allelujia. Does the Judiciary know they have a Right Whinger in their midst? 8-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-10-28 3:49 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Up to 6 months on a standard visitor visa. Money could be raised via the many finance companies there. Like UK they seem to have plenty of them. Yanking up the drawbridge to fortress UK won't stop this from happening. https://www.migrationexpert.co.uk/visitor_visa/tourist_visitor_visa So why are your Communist chums choosing to spend 10's of 1000's risking death in the back of a freezer truck? ;-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Strange that whilst UK police charged the truck driver who picked the container up in Essex, the Belgian authorities have neither arrested or charged the truck driver who took the container to Zeebrugge. They said they are "looking for those responsible"......well that particular driver is in custody in Ireland after being in court for assault and criminal damage. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/man-23-in-court-following-arrest-at-dublin-port-1.4064018 https://tinyurl.com/y2a8fbu9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-10-28 4:19 PM Strange that whilst UK police charged the truck driver who picked the container up in Essex, the Belgian authorities have neither arrested or charged the truck driver who took the container to Zeebrugge. They said they are "looking for those responsible"......well that particular driver is in custody in Ireland after being in court for assault and criminal damage. https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/courts/district-court/man-23-in-court-following-arrest-at-dublin-port-1.4064018 https://tinyurl.com/y2a8fbu9 That's it Bullet ;-) ....... Bury your head in the knitty gritty *-) .........and "IGNORE" the fact that the victims are fleeing from the same system you and your fellow forum Corbynites espouse >:-) ....... Damn you folk are Dumdum's (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Well some managed to fly to Paris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-28 3:56 PM Bulletguy - 2019-10-28 3:49 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Up to 6 months on a standard visitor visa. Money could be raised via the many finance companies there. Like UK they seem to have plenty of them. Yanking up the drawbridge to fortress UK won't stop this from happening. https://www.migrationexpert.co.uk/visitor_visa/tourist_visitor_visa So why are your Communist chums choosing to spend 10's of 1000's risking death in the back of a freezer truck? ;-) ........ The same question I asked more than a day ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-10-28 5:08 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-28 3:56 PM Bulletguy - 2019-10-28 3:49 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Up to 6 months on a standard visitor visa. Money could be raised via the many finance companies there. Like UK they seem to have plenty of them. Yanking up the drawbridge to fortress UK won't stop this from happening. https://www.migrationexpert.co.uk/visitor_visa/tourist_visitor_visa So why are your Communist chums choosing to spend 10's of 1000's risking death in the back of a freezer truck? ;-) ........ The same question I asked more than a day ago. You are supping at a dry well if you think you'll get a sensible response from Bullet or his fellow Corbynites (lol) (lol) (lol) ......... Thick as sh*te the lot of them *-) ........... They even think they can still win an election 8-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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