Violet1956 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 jumpstart - 2019-10-28 5:05 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Well some managed to fly to Paris. Not the same enterprise as entering a UK port of entry jumpstart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Wrong button syndrome strikes again 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 5:36 PM jumpstart - 2019-10-28 5:05 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Well some managed to fly to Paris. Not the same enterprise as entering a UK port of entry jumpstart. Hopefully this tragedy will do some good on the tinternet by showing to the world that "Illegal" access to the UK is not without cost :-| ........... Perhaps if OUR JUDICIARY allowed easier deportation of illegals then perhaps many would be deflected from risking their lives? ;-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 John52 - 2019-10-28 12:46 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 12:03 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-26 11:42 PM Clean your own car. Quite. I take it that, unlike millions of others, you have a private space near your house to clean your car Brian ;-) I don't see the relevance of my car cleaning arrangements (or your highly selective snip!) - unless you think being hard up excuses using businesses employing illegal immigrants for whatever purpose. If so, (to quote an ex work colleague) I couldn't disagree with you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 747 - 2019-10-28 9:04 AM John52 - 2019-10-28 6:27 AM 747 - 2019-10-27 3:56 PM John52 - 2019-10-27 3:13 PM 747 - 2019-10-27 11:40 AM Their Pension Scheme was changed a while back and it is no longer as good as it once was. How does it compare to private sector job security / pensions *-) (Last time I looked you needed to save north of £1million to buy the equivalent of a public sector pension. ) Well go and look again and come back when you have got it right. Ah Since you were presenting yourself as an authority on public sector pensions I thought you might know something about it and be able to tell us *-) I am not an authority on Pensions of any kind. I just happen to have a Son who is a Firefighter and he has discussed it with me. He pays around 14% of his wages into his Pension as opposed to 5% or 6% in other Company Pension schemes. You might even remember a while back there was talk of a Strike by Firefighters about the changes the Government wanted to make to their Pension Scheme...……………... Yes, but what is the normal retirement age for a firefighter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-28 4:29 PM the fact that the victims are fleeing from the same system you and your fellow forum Corbynites espouse ..... I must have missed that. Can you quote where anyone on here espoused the Vietnamise system *-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John52 Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 747 - 2019-10-28 12:48 PM John52 - 2019-10-28 9:28 AM 747 - 2019-10-28 9:04 AM John52 - 2019-10-28 6:27 AM 747 - 2019-10-27 3:56 PM John52 - 2019-10-27 3:13 PM 747 - 2019-10-27 11:40 AM Their Pension Scheme was changed a while back and it is no longer as good as it once was. How does it compare to private sector job security / pensions *-) (Last time I looked you needed to save north of £1million to buy the equivalent of a public sector pension. ) Well go and look again and come back when you have got it right. Ah Since you were presenting yourself as an authority on public sector pensions I thought you might know something about it and be able to tell us *-) I am not an authority on Pensions of any kind. I just happen to have a Son who is a Firefighter and he has discussed it with me. He pays around 14% of his wages into his Pension as opposed to 5% or 6% in other Company Pension schemes. You might even remember a while back there was talk of a Strike by Firefighters about the changes the Government wanted to make to their Pension Scheme. Firefighters are different to you, they don't have the means to invest large sums in Offshore Tax Free Accounts like you and depend on a Pension to have a decent standard of living when retired. I don't have any tax free accounts, all the investments I have could be made by a public sector employee as easy for them as it was for me. Seriously the thing about public sector pensions is they are index linked - which is now virtually unheard of in the private sector. With the National Debt piling up, BoJo saying 'F*ck business', Brexit whatever the cost, and throwing around pre-election spending promises like confetti, Actuaries daren't guess what inflation will be. Many pension companies won't offer index linking at all and those who do are hideously expensive. I saw the public sector unions pension demonstrations. I was staggered to see the public sector unions posters trying to associate themselves with the Tolpuddle Martyrs 8-) yes really 8-) And Teachers chanting down anyone who tried to talk with "No Ifs No Buts No pensions cuts". What an example of reasoned argument to set to children. Let them go on strike - I wouldn't want them teaching my kids. They seemed to think they were employed by some Grotesque Victorian Capitalist instead of the General Public!! Did you work in a sewage works? Because you spew out lots of sh*te. A quick google proves that your above post is complete nonsense ... as usual. https://fullfact.org/news/how-generous-are-firefighters-pensions/ ???? Nothing on that link contradicts anything I have said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-10-28 2:14 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 11:37 AM Birdbrain - 2019-10-26 7:03 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-26 6:48 PM jumpstart - 2019-10-26 3:04 PM...……………...I too wondered why pay 30,000 to get smuggled in a container. Then listen to, or watch, the news, or read a newspaper, and you'll find out. Or maybe live in an area that has already an abundance of Chinese/Vietnamese working under the radar with the riches of money they are prolly earning compared to back home ... Not in leafy East Sussex though Irrelevant, as usual. Doesn't address Jumpstarts question. Why do they pay so much? Ask them ... You might need to take a journey out of leafy East Sussex though God, some people are slow when it suits them!! I don't have to ask them, since a nice Vietnamese lady explained a couple of nights back on the news how they come to be conned into travelling to the UK in the belief it is Eldorado as my reply to Jumpstart explained. What on earth has illegal Vietnamese migration got to do with Sussex, or any other part of the UK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 John52 - 2019-10-28 6:23 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-28 4:29 PM the fact that the victims are fleeing from the same system you and your fellow forum Corbynites espouse ..... I must have missed that. Can you quote where anyone on here espoused the Vietnamise system *-) Are you not a Commie Corbyn supporter? >:-) .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-28 5:53 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 5:36 PM jumpstart - 2019-10-28 5:05 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Well some managed to fly to Paris. Not the same enterprise as entering a UK port of entry jumpstart. Hopefully this tragedy will do some good on the tinternet by showing to the world that "Illegal" access to the UK is not without cost :-| ........... Perhaps if OUR JUDICIARY allowed easier deportation of illegals then perhaps many would be deflected from risking their lives? ;-) ......... Trouble is though David that although these folk have lost their lives for a chance of the UKs milk and honey others will not be put off , they will still come as the rewards are too high to ignore ... The risk is worth it ... Ouistreham was a real eye opener for me this year with loads of young male Africans who were adding so much to the area willing to risk all to flee war torn France for Blighty ... Seems really strange to me why they risk all to flee war torn EU world for that nasty UK thats shortly guna sink without trace ... Strange Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-10-28 6:35 PM pelmetman - 2019-10-28 5:53 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 5:36 PM jumpstart - 2019-10-28 5:05 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Well some managed to fly to Paris. Not the same enterprise as entering a UK port of entry jumpstart. Hopefully this tragedy will do some good on the tinternet by showing to the world that "Illegal" access to the UK is not without cost :-| ........... Perhaps if OUR JUDICIARY allowed easier deportation of illegals then perhaps many would be deflected from risking their lives? ;-) ......... Trouble is though David that although these folk have lost their lives for a chance of the UKs milk and honey others will not be put off , they will still come as the rewards are too high to ignore ... The risk is worth it ... Ouistreham was a real eye opener for me this year with loads of young male Africans who were adding so much to the area willing to risk all to flee war torn France for Blighty ... Seems really strange to me why they risk all to flee war torn EU world for that nasty UK thats shortly guna sink without trace ... Strange Kinda shows how the Fourth Reich has been happy to take OUR MONEY and dump on us at the same time *-) ....... Once we are free of the ECJ then we can start to rectify our own incompetent "So Called" justice system B-) ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Again, quite. Which is why, given their present circumstances, they are so easily gulled into taking ridiculous risks to get here. Not in reply to Veronica, but most of this discussion has become an exercise in political willy-waving for the usual suspects, and has little to do with facts or gaining understanding. If people are convinced that the grass over the hill is greener, they will go over the hill. We've been doing so for the past 350,000 years or so, it is in our DNA (that is just Homo Sapiens, others, of course, went before). If they are driven by war, famine, disease, or persecution, they will take greater and greater risks to get over the hill. So, the traffickers/smugglers emphasise the disadvantages of their present circumstances, while dangling before them the advantages of the places they want to con them into travelling to. Then they explain how they will find unlimited riches and opportunities in their new land, and how easy it will be to repay the inflated cost of getting there. Poorly educated and/or desperate people want to believe they are being offered a route to a better life, so unwittingly take risks no rational being would contemplate. We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Again, quite. Which is why, given their present circumstances, they are so easily gulled into taking ridiculous risks to get here. Not in reply to Veronica, but most of this discussion has become an exercise in political willy-waving for the usual suspects, and has little to do with facts or gaining understanding. If people are convinced that the grass over the hill is greener, they will go over the hill. We've been doing so for the past 350,000 years or so, it is in our DNA (that is just Homo Sapiens, others, of course, went before). If they are driven by war, famine, disease, or persecution, they will take greater and greater risks to get over the hill. So, the traffickers/smugglers emphasise the disadvantages of their present circumstances, while dangling before them the advantages of the places they want to con them into travelling to. Then they explain how they will find unlimited riches and opportunities in their new land, and how easy it will be to repay the inflated cost of getting there. Poorly educated and/or desperate people want to believe they are being offered a route to a better life, so unwittingly take risks no rational being would contemplate. We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? I haven't seen on the news these folk were "poorly educated" Brian , maybe you can point out where thats been said as up to press we dont even know the identity of most of em ??? ... As for who is responsible then maybe you might want to look at the parents/grandparents of some of these folk who will through family pressure made them take the risk to come to team UK ... I dont see how pointing out what you choose uncomfortable to digest is in any way showing a lack of "empathy" either towards these unfortunate souls , maybe you can explain ??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM If people are convinced that the grass over the hill is greener, they will go over the hill. We've been doing so for the past 350,000 years or so, it is in our DNA (that is just Homo Sapiens, others, of course, went before). If they are driven by war, famine, disease, or persecution, they will take greater and greater risks to get over the hill. They have been convinced :-| ........... Because loony liberals with your mindset who work in our judiciary as judges, have continually allowed them to stay rather than be deported *-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-10-28 7:18 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Again, quite. Which is why, given their present circumstances, they are so easily gulled into taking ridiculous risks to get here. Not in reply to Veronica, but most of this discussion has become an exercise in political willy-waving for the usual suspects, and has little to do with facts or gaining understanding. If people are convinced that the grass over the hill is greener, they will go over the hill. We've been doing so for the past 350,000 years or so, it is in our DNA (that is just Homo Sapiens, others, of course, went before). If they are driven by war, famine, disease, or persecution, they will take greater and greater risks to get over the hill. So, the traffickers/smugglers emphasise the disadvantages of their present circumstances, while dangling before them the advantages of the places they want to con them into travelling to. Then they explain how they will find unlimited riches and opportunities in their new land, and how easy it will be to repay the inflated cost of getting there. Poorly educated and/or desperate people want to believe they are being offered a route to a better life, so unwittingly take risks no rational being would contemplate. We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? I haven't seen on the news these folk were "poorly educated" Brian , maybe you can point out where thats been said as up to press we dont even know the identity of most of em ??? ... As for who is responsible then maybe you might want to look at the parents/grandparents of some of these folk who will through family pressure made them take the risk to come to team UK ... I dont see how pointing out what you choose uncomfortable to digest is in any way showing a lack of "empathy" either towards these unfortunate souls , maybe you can explain ??? It's funny how those poorly educated victims managed to drum up 10's of 1000's of pounds "Per" head to head to the UK :-| .............. I doubt they were actually poor judging by the social media pictures of the victims *-) ....... I wouldn't be surprised if the Vietnam Communist party is behind the trafficking :-| ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted October 28, 2019 Author Share Posted October 28, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-28 7:31 PM Birdbrain - 2019-10-28 7:18 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Again, quite. Which is why, given their present circumstances, they are so easily gulled into taking ridiculous risks to get here. Not in reply to Veronica, but most of this discussion has become an exercise in political willy-waving for the usual suspects, and has little to do with facts or gaining understanding. If people are convinced that the grass over the hill is greener, they will go over the hill. We've been doing so for the past 350,000 years or so, it is in our DNA (that is just Homo Sapiens, others, of course, went before). If they are driven by war, famine, disease, or persecution, they will take greater and greater risks to get over the hill. So, the traffickers/smugglers emphasise the disadvantages of their present circumstances, while dangling before them the advantages of the places they want to con them into travelling to. Then they explain how they will find unlimited riches and opportunities in their new land, and how easy it will be to repay the inflated cost of getting there. Poorly educated and/or desperate people want to believe they are being offered a route to a better life, so unwittingly take risks no rational being would contemplate. We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? I haven't seen on the news these folk were "poorly educated" Brian , maybe you can point out where thats been said as up to press we dont even know the identity of most of em ??? ... As for who is responsible then maybe you might want to look at the parents/grandparents of some of these folk who will through family pressure made them take the risk to come to team UK ... I dont see how pointing out what you choose uncomfortable to digest is in any way showing a lack of "empathy" either towards these unfortunate souls , maybe you can explain ??? It's funny how those poorly educated victims managed to drum up 10's of 1000's of pounds "Per" head to head to the UK :-| .............. I doubt they were actually poor judging by the social media pictures of the victims *-) ....... I wouldn't be surprised if the Vietnam Communist party is behind the trafficking :-| ..... You never know but maybe old multi billionaire Soros might have dropped the Commies a few quid to fund em coming here ... He funds a lot of other stuff doesnt he Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted October 28, 2019 Share Posted October 28, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? Xenophobia and their usual inane flippant comments they seem to think hilariously funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdbrain Posted October 29, 2019 Author Share Posted October 29, 2019 Bulletguy - 2019-10-28 10:00 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? Xenophobia and their usual inane flippant comments they seem to think hilariously funny. Youve done it ... "xenophobia" ... You managed to "safely say" it and use it again ... Go girl !!! ... Now go wipe yaself down princess with a tissue or sumat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 5:36 PM jumpstart - 2019-10-28 5:05 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Well some managed to fly to Paris. Not the same enterprise as entering a UK port of entry jumpstart. For £95 a Chinese citizen can have a visa to transit uk including exiting Boarder for 48hrs. For a couple of hundred pounds they can have a 30day visa as long as they are part of a tourist group. All they need is Chinese papers. Certainly they don’t have much trouble entering the rest of the Eu,flying or driving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? It's not entirely their own fault :-| ........... I think our own home grown loony liberals should take a lot of the blame for encouraging them >:-( ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 It’s not just economic migration, over the coming decades there will be an increasing water migration. The African continent there are already massive problems supplying water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 Birdbrain - 2019-10-28 7:18 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM Violet1956 - 2019-10-28 3:21 PM I suspect that there is no chance for any impoverished Vietnamese national to enter the UK on a tourist visa BG. Again, quite. Which is why, given their present circumstances, they are so easily gulled into taking ridiculous risks to get here. Not in reply to Veronica, but most of this discussion has become an exercise in political willy-waving for the usual suspects, and has little to do with facts or gaining understanding. If people are convinced that the grass over the hill is greener, they will go over the hill. We've been doing so for the past 350,000 years or so, it is in our DNA (that is just Homo Sapiens, others, of course, went before). If they are driven by war, famine, disease, or persecution, they will take greater and greater risks to get over the hill. So, the traffickers/smugglers emphasise the disadvantages of their present circumstances, while dangling before them the advantages of the places they want to con them into travelling to. Then they explain how they will find unlimited riches and opportunities in their new land, and how easy it will be to repay the inflated cost of getting there. Poorly educated and/or desperate people want to believe they are being offered a route to a better life, so unwittingly take risks no rational being would contemplate. We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? I haven't seen on the news these folk were "poorly educated" Brian , maybe you can point out where thats been said as up to press we dont even know the identity of most of em ??? ... As for who is responsible then maybe you might want to look at the parents/grandparents of some of these folk who will through family pressure made them take the risk to come to team UK ... I dont see how pointing out what you choose uncomfortable to digest is in any way showing a lack of "empathy" either towards these unfortunate souls , maybe you can explain ??? It isn't the migrants who are necessarily under-educated, it is precisely those members of their families who facilitate their attempts to emigrate west by financing them. Families of those whose relatives are believed to have died in the container, who had received texts saying they couldn't breathe and were dying, were interviewed in their homes in the Vietnamese village a number of the dead are thought to have come from. They were naïve ingénues who had been convinced of the improbable possibility that if they raised a hugely inflated sum their child/relative would be transported to Europe/the UK where they would find work so well paid they would be able to send enough back home to boost the family income and pay back the debt. If that isn't evidence of a poor general education, what is? So yes, those families carry some responsibility for the death of their relatives, and they will be all to aware of that. But that responsibility pales to insignificance beside that of the money-lenders, fixers, traffickers and smugglers who, together with what must surely be a substantial number of corrupt officials at the numerous border crossings between Vietnam and the UK, allow these peoples to pass into, and out of, all those sates that lie along their route. It is reported that they use forged Chinese passports. Why? And why aren't those forged passports (whatever their origins) detected as they cross borders? As I said way back, there is much more to emerge about this and, FWIW, I don't think Essex police, who have performed so well to date, stand a cat in hell's chance of breaking open the whole rotten chain unless they get significant support from the National Crime Agency - whose involvement I have yet to see mentioned. That, too, puzzles me. Why? At present there seems to me an uncomfortable interest in grabbing nabbing the local links in the chain, disregarding its other end, and moving on, while blaming the victims for their fates, with a good deal of virtue signalling as a side dish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-28 7:23 PM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM If people are convinced that the grass over the hill is greener, they will go over the hill. We've been doing so for the past 350,000 years or so, it is in our DNA (that is just Homo Sapiens, others, of course, went before). If they are driven by war, famine, disease, or persecution, they will take greater and greater risks to get over the hill. They have been convinced :-| ........... Because loony liberals with your mindset who work in our judiciary as judges, have continually allowed them to stay rather than be deported *-) ......... Easy target, but grossly over-simplified. But that is only true once they a) have entered the UK, and b) been detected, arrested, and prosecuted. Back to basics. How do they get in? How did a refrigerated truck, declared to be carrying confectionary and consequently not running its fridge plant, but actually carrying 39 corpses, get waved through Purfleet on the basis that it should not be opened for inspection because it was refrigerated? Which loony liberals made that contribution to this particular tragedy? Border Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 It is easier to get in as a Chinese national than Vietnamese. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted October 29, 2019 Share Posted October 29, 2019 pelmetman - 2019-10-29 8:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2019-10-28 7:09 PM We know many die en-route. We know this is the product of international criminal activity. Yet some of us seem to hold the dead responsible for their own deaths, instead of showing them some empathy and attributing responsibility to the criminal gangs who profit from human misery? Why? It's not entirely their own fault :-| ........... I think our own home grown loony liberals should take a lot of the blame for encouraging them >:-( ........ Doesn't compute, though, does it? The UK (including you!) loves to brag of its 5th/6th largest economy in the world. It is a wealthy country overall (even if that wealth is among the most unevenly distributed in the world). To an impoverished Vietnamese, who will know little of the UK except those misleading claims, it will appear as Eldorado. The village from which a number of the dead are suspected as originating apparently has a number of residents who have been to UK, earned a lot of money, and returned to build what were described flashy houses and buy new cars. They become the evidence that a) the UK can be entered, b) good money can be earned, and c) that one can then just cash in one's chips and return to Vietnam loaded. That is the lure. Given that evidence, who is not going to want to have a go themselves? So, an industry has developed to meet the demand for "well paid" jobs in UK, no doubt with nods and winks about how safe and easy this is, even if legally a little dodgy. They have little to no idea what they are getting into. They live 6,000 miles away in a Vietnamese speaking, backward, rural community, how on earth can they know? Approximately 10% of all detected illegal immigrants in UK are from Vietnam, so it is hardly an unknown source of illegal migration. The routes and methods used are apparently known. So we know that people want to enter the UK by whatever means to benefit from its wealth, we know more or less how they do so, and we know that they do so. When illegal migrants are prosecuted, they are legally defended, and their cases are heard. That seems to me fair and reasonable. They have the opportunity to argue why they should not be deported. That is our legal system working as it is supposed to do. I see no reason why that should be changed. Anyone presenting at a UK border who cannot satisfy immigration requirements may be turned back at that point. That is why the smugglers try to get their clients in "under the radar". If we want to diminish the number of detainees whose cases go before the courts, we might help ourselves somewhat by being more stringent over dealing with the under-cover routes, and by returning those who are picked up at the border. The question is why we do not do this. We are completely free to do so, including with EU citizens, if we so choose, so someone doesn't want us to do that, do they? No "loony liberal judges" (which completely ignores the reality of UK legal procedures) would then be involved, and nor would the costs of detaining and prosecuting those turned back. So again, why does the UK government not adopt this course, when it could? Difficult, that, isn't it? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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