Sargent ec160

[trialsrider]

My pvc has a Sargent ec160 power module. The charger function is pretty poor so I'm going to fit an additional charger. I already have a power socket in the battery area under the living area seating. I have 1 110ah battery. My intention is to upgrade to 2 110ah batteries and run them together. There is space to do this. My question is about a suitable charger and what would be safe to run through this power socket. The socket is run through the Sargent a/c MCB outputs which have a 10amp rating. Does this mean that any additional charger I fit must be 10amps or less ?

[Keithl]

trialsrider - 2019-12-25 7:45 PM

 

My pvc has a Sargent ec160 power module. The charger function is pretty poor so I'm going to fit an additional charger. I already have a power socket in the battery area under the living area seating. I have 1 110ah battery. My intention is to upgrade to 2 110ah batteries and run them together. There is space to do this. My question is about a suitable charger and what would be safe to run through this power socket. The socket is run through the Sargent a/c MCB outputs which have a 10amp rating. Does this mean that any additional charger I fit must be 10 amps or less ?

 

No.

 

The MCB is 10 Amps at 230 Volts whereas the charger output will be 10 Amps at a nominal 12 volts.

 

If you look at the charger spec you should find an input current stated. For a 10 Amp Output charger this will be significantly less than 10 Amps Input.

 

For example my CTEK charger has a rated output of 4 Amps and a Mains Current of 1.2 Amps 'At full charging Current'. Scaling this up to a 10 Amp charger would be approximately 3.0 Amps input.

 

Keith.

[trialsrider]

Keithl - 2019-12-25 10:03 PM

 

trialsrider - 2019-12-25 7:45 PM

 

My pvc has a Sargent ec160 power module. The charger function is pretty poor so I'm going to fit an additional charger. I already have a power socket in the battery area under the living area seating. I have 1 110ah battery. My intention is to upgrade to 2 110ah batteries and run them together. There is space to do this. My question is about a suitable charger and what would be safe to run through this power socket. The socket is run through the Sargent a/c MCB outputs which have a 10amp rating. Does this mean that any additional charger I fit must be 10 amps or less ?

 

No.

 

The MCB is 10 Amps at 230 Volts whereas the charger output will be 10 Amps at a nominal 12 volts.

 

If you look at the charger spec you should find an input current stated. For a 10 Amp Output charger this will be significantly less than 10 Amps Input.

 

For example my CTEK charger has a rated output of 4 Amps and a Mains Current of 1.2 Amps 'At full charging Current'. Scaling this up to a 10 Amp charger would be approximately 3.0 Amps input.

 

Keith.

 

Thanks Keith

 

I understand it a little bit better now. I'm looking at the victron ip22 20 or 30 amp versions. I can't find the input current on the data sheet. Anybody know these chargers?

[Robinhood]

Keithl - 2019-12-25 10:03 PM

 

For example my CTEK charger has a rated output of 4 Amps and a Mains Current of 1.2 Amps 'At full charging Current'. Scaling this up to a 10 Amp charger would be approximately 3.0 Amps input.

 

Keith.

 

TBH, unless it is a very inefficient charger, these figures look suspect to me.

 

For a reasonably efficient charger, I'd expect the ratio between input and output current to be considerably higher. (at 100% efficiency, the ratio will be in excess of 230/15 - which is the rough ratio of the input and output voltage. At an easily achievable 80% efficiency - the Victron is quoted at well over 90% - this is still a ratio of over 12:1).

 

A CBE charger, of the type that is fitted to many motorhomes, is input fused at 2A for the 16A output version, and 3.15A for the 22A. Even these values give a significant headroom.

 

I can't see too many issues with the current from a 10amp supply, but the OP should be careful to match the new charger with the potential demand from a reasonably large battery bank. IMO the 30A version would probably be a good idea.

[Derek Uzzell]

trialsrider

 

The input current will depend on the efficiency of the charger and its output.

 

The technical specifications of my CTEK MX 5.0 charger are shown in the attachment below and it’s not unreasonable to extrapolate from those data that a Victron IP22 charger when providing a maximum 20A output at 12V would require a 230V input of no more than 3A.

 

You could try asking the Victron community (a somewhat similar question was asked here)

 

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/12306/power-factor-for-ip67-battery-chargers.html

 

but - if I understand correctly what you have in mind - I’d be far more concerned with the potential risks in the plan rather than what AC amperage a Victron charger might demand.

 

You’ve said "My question is about a suitable charger and what would be safe to run through this power socket”. If you are going to power a secondary charger from an on-board 230V socket in your motorhome and that charger will be charging a pair of leisure-batteries while the charger in your EC160 unit will be operating simultaneously, I’m not sure what would happen - it might be OK, or it might not.

 

I charge my motorhome’s starter-battery occasionally using a separate battery-charger, but I power that charger directly from a domestic 230V socket and the motorhome is NOT connected to a 230V electrical ‘hook-up’ (EHU) when the starter-battery is being charged. I could have the motorhome connected to a 230V EHU with the motorhome’s on-board charger turned off and then power the separate battery-charger from an on-board 230V socket, but, even though I think that would be OK, I won’t do this just in case it is not.

[trialsrider]

Derek Uzzell - 2019-12-26 9:09 AM

 

trialsrider

 

The input current will depend on the efficiency of the charger and its output.

 

The technical specifications of my CTEK MX 5.0 charger are shown in the attachment below and it’s not unreasonable to extrapolate from those data that a Victron IP22 charger when providing a maximum 20A output at 12V would require a 230V input of no more than 3A.

 

You could try asking the Victron community (a somewhat similar question was asked here)

 

https://community.victronenergy.com/questions/12306/power-factor-for-ip67-battery-chargers.html

 

but - if I understand correctly what you have in mind - I’d be far more concerned with the potential risks in the plan rather than what AC amperage a Victron charger might demand.

 

You’ve said "My question is about a suitable charger and what would be safe to run through this power socket”. If you are going to power a secondary charger from an on-board 230V socket in your motorhome and that charger will be charging a pair of leisure-batteries while the charger in your EC160 unit will be operating simultaneously, I’m not sure what would happen - it might be OK, or it might not.

 

I charge my motorhome’s starter-battery occasionally using a separate battery-charger, but I power that charger directly from a domestic 230V socket and the motorhome is NOT connected to a 230V electrical ‘hook-up’ (EHU) when the starter-battery is being charged. I could have the motorhome connected to a 230V EHU with the motorhome’s on-board charger turned off and then power the separate battery-charger from an on-board 230V socket, but, even though I think that would be OK, I won’t do this just in case it is not.

 

Sorry Derek I should have been more specific. The Sargent charger will not be switched on. The victron unit will replace the charging function. I simply won't switch the charger part on of the Sargent. The rest of the unit will function as normal.

 

 

[trialsrider]

Robinhood - 2019-12-26 9:08 AM

 

Keithl - 2019-12-25 10:03 PM

 

For example my CTEK charger has a rated output of 4 Amps and a Mains Current of 1.2 Amps 'At full charging Current'. Scaling this up to a 10 Amp charger would be approximately 3.0 Amps input.

 

Keith.

 

TBH, unless it is a very inefficient charger, these figures look suspect to me.

 

For a reasonably efficient charger, I'd expect the ratio between input and output current to be considerably higher. (at 100% efficiency, the ratio will be in excess of 230/15 - which is the rough ratio of the input and output voltage. At an easily achievable 80% efficiency - the Victron is quoted at well over 90% - this is still a ratio of over 12:1).

 

A CBE charger, of the type that is fitted to many motorhomes, is input fused at 2A for the 16A output version, and 3.15A for the 22A. Even these values give a significant headroom.

 

I can't see too many issues with the current from a 10amp supply, but the OP should be careful to match the new charger with the potential demand from a reasonably large battery bank. IMO the 30A version would probably be a good idea.

 

Thanks for your reply. That makes good sense to me.