Will86 Posted February 1, 2020 Share Posted February 1, 2020 colin - 2020-02-01 10:39 AM For me the push for EV's is all about local environment where thousands of people die from emissions from vehicles, Never believe anything that organisations or governments say. Who are the thousands and where are they ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 1, 2020 Author Share Posted February 1, 2020 Will86 - 2020-02-01 3:57 PM colin - 2020-02-01 10:39 AM For me the push for EV's is all about local environment where thousands of people die from emissions from vehicles, Never believe anything that organisations or governments say. Who are the thousands and where are they ? Six feet under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 https://apple.news/AowvvdwVSRVewrmG9TKg_mw If they can do it for this vehicle , electric Motorhomes shouldn’t be a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Also from Autocar. "A team of scientists has written to the Committee of Climate Change warning that if the UK’s 31.5 million cars are replaced by electric vehicles by 2050, as is currently planned by the Government, this will require almost twice the current annual global supply of cobalt. The researchers have also calculated that based on the latest ‘811’ battery technology (80 per cent nickel, 10 per cent cobalt, 10 per cent manganese), UK demand for EV batteries will require almost the total amount of neodymium produced globally each year, three quarter’s of the world’s lithium, and “at least half” of the world’s copper." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Duck Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 A friends electric Volvo needs a new battery pack. £17,000 to you sir! In addition, Volvo have reported that the production of a single battery pack emits the same amount of CO2 as driving a petrol powered car for 8 years at average annual mileage. FD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Grant Shapps has made a wild statement of the possibility of banning sales of petrol and diesel vehicles in 12 years time. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-51474769 This is riddled with problems and typically UK is putting cart before horse. First i looked at what is currently available as affordable all electric, and there is this at just £6,690. Bargain eh? Take a look at what you get; 47mph and 60 miles on a full charge (3 hours) you can forget much more than a day out in a fancy looking mobility scooter. And if you have a family, tough they will have to go by bus......and no doubt get there long before you! The second one i looked at is at least a car with enough room for two adults and two children, as long as they're very small! But at £17,020 is out of reach of an average or low income earner.....unless living life on finance (debt). This does a mind blowing 80mph so may appeal to the boy racers and gives a whopping 93 miles per charge (whoopee).....BUT a full recharge takes a staggering SEVEN HOURS! https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-review/citroen/c-zero There are others available.....as long as you're prepared to pay more. The problem UK has got with going all electric is government are way behind manufacturing technology. It's going to need banks of power points installed throughout the length and breadth of the country BEFORE crowing about "lets ban petrol/diesel and make everyone buy electric". It's an admirable path to go down but needs the infrastructure first which is going to cost £billions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowdriver Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 Billggski Please could you provide me with a link to the Autocar article you mention? I have had a look but cannot find anything. However their search facility is pretty poor. Thanks in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 14, 2020 Share Posted February 14, 2020 What happens to all the petrol stations and the staff,the tanker drivers,the refineries, ships and crew. Does the Army get electric vehicles? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 The government collects an awful lot of tax ( VAT ) on petrol and diesel. I wonder how they will replace that. If they just transfer it all to electric bills, how will they exempt people who don't own vehicles ? :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjmike Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-02-15 10:44 AM The government collects an awful lot of tax ( VAT ) on petrol and diesel. I wonder how they will replace that. If they just transfer it all to electric bills, how will they exempt people who don't own vehicles ? :-( That's why the government want everyone to have a smart meter. When EVs are the norm the smart meter will recognise the EV charge and add the tax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc d Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 fjmike - 2020-02-15 11:25 AM malc d - 2020-02-15 10:44 AM The government collects an awful lot of tax ( VAT ) on petrol and diesel. I wonder how they will replace that. If they just transfer it all to electric bills, how will they exempt people who don't own vehicles ? :-( That's why the government want everyone to have a smart meter. When EVs are the norm the smart meter will recognise the EV charge and add the tax So we could end up paying VAT on charging our E-bikes and phones ! :-( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletguy Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 malc d - 2020-02-15 11:46 AM fjmike - 2020-02-15 11:25 AM malc d - 2020-02-15 10:44 AM The government collects an awful lot of tax ( VAT ) on petrol and diesel. I wonder how they will replace that. If they just transfer it all to electric bills, how will they exempt people who don't own vehicles ? :-( That's why the government want everyone to have a smart meter. When EVs are the norm the smart meter will recognise the EV charge and add the tax So we could end up paying VAT on charging our E-bikes and phones ! :-( You already do Malc.....5%. But that won't even make a scratch on the surface of what pours into government coffers from the double whammy taxes of VAT and fuel duty which accounts for 50% of the pump price so it doesn't take much to figure, they will whack up taxation on electric be it VAT or some other name to make up the vast losses from fuel taxation. Think back to when diesel pump price was a fair bit lower than petrol as few folk bought diesel vehicles, mainly because most of what was available was poorly engineered. BMW, Merc and Audi changed all that by developing and refining diesel engines which gave blistering performance and amazing economy and before long people were switching in droves. So the pump price of diesel quickly rose to overtake that of petrol. Unless you've got a bank of solar panels or your own windmill farm to pull in enough power to enable you to sell a surplus back to an electric company, you're stuffed! This chap has been into green energy some time and undoubtedly one of UK's most unlikely success stories. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/dale-vince-interview-the-100m-hippy-with-wind-in-his-turbines-and-quorn-in-his-burgers-9588062.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davidmac Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Hi, gas boilers are on the government’s hit list as well as petrol and diesel cars. An email from my energy company regarding a new contract informs me that I use 11,700kwh of gas to heat my home and 1,800kwh for cooking, lighting etc. Gas is 3.5p per kWh electric 17p per kWh . If I change to electric heating my energy bill will be sky high if there is enough capacity in the country to run it along with all the electric cars everyone will have to drive. Regards David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billggski Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 Autoexpress, my mistake. https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/107058/uk-electric-cars-will-require-twice-the-world-s-supply-of-cobalt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted February 15, 2020 Share Posted February 15, 2020 I have a great idea that will solve the problems of limited range, having to install millions of charger points and somehow producing all this extra electricity - just retrofit a decent petrol generator in the boot that charges the car batteries when you are stationary!. Technically, this is a pure electric propelled vehicle so not subject to ULEZ etc. Better still, you could probably use a diesel generator and run it on red diesel. No need to worry about emissions, clogged DPF, EGRs etc. as generators are not covered under the automotive regs (AFAIK) What could possibly be wrong with this idea? :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ColinM50 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 plwsm, I've thought that for ages and I think that's how the Jaguar range of hybrid lekky cars work. Just a small genny in the boot charging the batteries as needed. Some of the Broads hire boats do this too, https://www.waterwaysholidays.com/blog/electric-cruisers-available-hire-norfolk-broads/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted February 16, 2020 Author Share Posted February 16, 2020 ColinM50 - 2020-02-16 9:23 AM plwsm, I've thought that for ages and I think that's how the Jaguar range of hybrid lekky cars work. Just a small genny in the boot charging the batteries as needed. Some of the Broads hire boats do this too, https://www.waterwaysholidays.com/blog/electric-cruisers-available-hire-norfolk-broads/ It's how the Transit Custom Hybrid works, it has an electric motor driving the wheels and a 1L ecoboost engine providing the power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PCC Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 Also, I believe, the new London taxi although this has a substantial battery as well. A van version is being readied for production now. I thought that hydrogen would be the answer but saw something the other day that suggested that hydrogen needs huge fuel tanks to carry a similar amount of energy as petrol. The cynic in me suspects that if hybrids are banned they will be rebranded as range extenders and the government will meet their stated targets and the manufacturers will be relatively happy. Solid state batteries would help but they seem to be slipping further and further into the future. Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 There are some hydrogen / fuel cell cars available now, and some hydrogen filling stations. So carrying hydrogen does not seem to be a problem . Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceM Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 PCC - 2020-02-16 10:12 AM I thought that hydrogen would be the answer but saw something the other day that suggested that hydrogen needs huge fuel tanks to carry a similar amount of energy as petrol. Peter The gas is carried in liquid form much like LPG is so the tanks do not have to be especially large. The currently available hydrogen fuel cell vehicles are capable of doing in excess of 400 miles on a full tank. That will no doubt increase as the technology advances and more manufacturers start to release them. I seen to recall that the UK’s first hydrogen fuel cell powered passenger train is/is about to go into service. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plwsm2000 Posted February 16, 2020 Share Posted February 16, 2020 plwsm2000 - 2020-02-15 5:30 PM I have a great idea that will solve the problems of limited range, having to install millions of charger points and somehow producing all this extra electricity - just retrofit a decent petrol generator in the boot that charges the car batteries when you are stationary!. Technically, this is a pure electric propelled vehicle so not subject to ULEZ etc. Better still, you could probably use a diesel generator and run it on red diesel. No need to worry about emissions, clogged DPF, EGRs etc. as generators are not covered under the automotive regs (AFAIK) What could possibly be wrong with this idea? :-) My post was not meant to be taken too seriously. The main reasons we are given for going electric is for better air quality and to reduce "greenhouse" gasses. While such "solutions" may work with relatively small numbers of users, I don't think it is viable for the entire population. There was a serious point in that you cannot just look at one part of the process (use in the vehicle) - you also need to consider how the generation, storage, distribution side of things work too. Generating hydrogen is not particularly "green" either as most of the hydrogen produced today is from natural gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 We have a virtually unlimited supply of hydrogen from seawater. Commercial extraction methods are underway at the moment, and using solar farms as power source would be green.And while we are at it, We could also use solar power for desalination, helping solve the clean water shortage and possible slowing the rising sea level problem. Brian B. ps Just think how clean we could be. Hydrogen fuel, Solar power, Wind farms Wave power electricity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jumpstart Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 thebishbus - 2020-02-17 9:48 AM We have a virtually unlimited supply of hydrogen from seawater. Commercial extraction methods are underway at the moment, and using solar farms as power source would be green.And while we are at it, We could also use solar power for desalination, helping solve the clean water shortage and possible slowing the rising sea level problem. Brian B. ps Just think how clean we could be. Hydrogen fuel, Solar power, Wind farms Wave power electricity. The problem with desalination is the toxit brine that is the byproduct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spirou Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 salt has to go somewhere but also, water flows back in the ocean so how does that help rising levels? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebishbus Posted February 17, 2020 Share Posted February 17, 2020 surely some of the h2o would be used up as motion/power,some released as oxygen. We have been extracting the so called toxic salt from the sea for thousands of years and using it as sea salt.If there was any extra water from these processes it could be used for irrigation . We may end up with an excess of salt though. Brian B. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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