Avoiding Apex of Steep Drive

[colin]

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-04 2:12 PM

 

 

I ran though all the options on the order form and they come to 118 kg. However, there is also a solar panel (12kg) and an awning (27kg) fitted by the dealer, which takes up to 3282 kg. So payload is 368 kg. Add one wife and we are at 300 kg. Even with a full water tank and the 90% fuel from MIRO, that leaves 200 kg.

 

There will normally just be my wife and I on board and we intended to buy local, so we won't be carrying a large amount of food. The rest will be kitchen items, clothes, bedding, etc. We are also probably going to buy a Safari Chef for cooking (unless anyone has had a bad experience) and they don't seem to be very heavy.

 

We intend to use the van for sightseeing, leisurely evenings for food and wine, and camping on small sites or wild camping where permitted. We won't be carrying bikes, or surfboards, or any other outdoor sports gear (maybe a wind break), so we have ten heavy suitcase equivalents for the above.

 

Considering that most of the time the fuel and water won't be full, it sounds like I just need to be sensible and keep an eye on the weight. I live near a weighbridge with a £10 fee, so it won't be difficult to check occasionally.

.

 

Whilst that payload is doable, it will need some care. To put it in perspective, if you and wife where sat in a Ford Fiesta you would have about 300kg of spare payload. As I said, not often people get stopped, but if you are you will not be allowed to continue over weight, if it's a matter of dumping the water, that's not too bad, but if you are heavier than that you will have to decide what you want to lose.

p.s. it's why when looking at 7m+ vans we will only consider them on heavy chassis, which leaves you free of any worry.

[SteveWalmsley]

I just noticed something interesting. The Certificat de Conformite from Rapido has 3650 as maximum mass (masse en charge maximale) and the axle weights are 1860 / 2000.

 

I also have the Certificat de Conformite from AL-KO and that has 3700 masse en charge maximale and 1960 / 2000 for the axles.

 

I read somewhere else that svtech can uprate a motorhome with only paperwork in some cases. Turns out they are based on my old home town which I am visiting anyway next week. Maybe I can squeeze out a little more payload based on the AL-KO documentation. Every little helps :)

 

BTW knowing what I know now, I might have chosen the heavy chassis back in October, but no point worrying about that now. I have to play the hand I have :)

[colin]

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-04 9:14 PM

 

I just noticed something interesting. The Certificat de Conformite from Rapido has 3650 as maximum mass (masse en charge maximale) and the axle weights are 1860 / 2000.

 

I also have the Certificat de Conformite from AL-KO and that has 3700 masse en charge maximale and 1960 / 2000 for the axles.

 

I read somewhere else that svtech can uprate a motorhome with only paperwork in some cases. Turns out they are based on my old home town which I am visiting anyway next week. Maybe I can squeeze out a little more payload based on the AL-KO documentation. Every little helps :)

 

BTW knowing what I know now, I might have chosen the heavy chassis back in October, but no point worrying about that now. I have to play the hand I have :)

 

The paperwork exercise (if they are happy with Alko chassis) will most likely be just adding up the two axle figures, before going down that route you would be best finding out what you have as actual figures when fully laden, if you hit the max on rear then no paperwork exercise will help, so that's a possible future job.

[SteveWalmsley]

colin - 2020-03-04 9:23 PM

 

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-04 9:14 PM

 

I just noticed something interesting. The Certificat de Conformite from Rapido has 3650 as maximum mass (masse en charge maximale) and the axle weights are 1860 / 2000.

 

I also have the Certificat de Conformite from AL-KO and that has 3700 masse en charge maximale and 1960 / 2000 for the axles.

 

I read somewhere else that svtech can uprate a motorhome with only paperwork in some cases. Turns out they are based on my old home town which I am visiting anyway next week. Maybe I can squeeze out a little more payload based on the AL-KO documentation. Every little helps :)

 

BTW knowing what I know now, I might have chosen the heavy chassis back in October, but no point worrying about that now. I have to play the hand I have :)

 

The paperwork exercise (if they are happy with Alko chassis) will most likely be just adding up the two axle figures, before going down that route you would be best finding out what you have as actual figures when fully laden, if you hit the max on rear then no paperwork exercise will help, so that's a possible future job.

 

Thanks - I will pick up the motorhome and go the weighbridge before taking any decisions. There is a lot of underfloor storage between the axles so I can use that for weight and the garage for volume.

[bolero boy]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-03-04 6:02 PM

 

A side-view photo of a Rapido 8096df is attached below.

 

Regarding weight distribution, although the motorhome has a reasonably long rear overhang, this is not out of proportion as the wheelbase (4.30 metres) is also long,

 

When empty it’s near certain that an 8096df’s front axle will carry a significantly higher percentage of weight than the rear axle, as the design places nothing particularly heavy towards the rear. I’d expect the waste-water tank to be behind the rear axle (as on my Rapido 640f), but there’s usually little difficulty emptying a waste-water tank regularly. As Steve’s comments indicate that the 150kg weight limit of the large rear garage is unlikely to be fully exploited, I believe the risk is small that in normal use the rear axle’s 2000kg load-maximum will be exceeded.

 

What should be plain from the photo is that the combination of the AL-KO chassis and the long wheelbase does result in the potential for the underside of the chassis to ground mid-wheelbase when the motorhome is driven over a ‘hump’ - which, of course, is what Steve was primarily concerned about.

 

 

Derek, im sure our van might have 'felt' light at the rear in full unladen form but i was basing my figures on my own loaded figures on an albeit shorter, Al-class.

i realise i have more kit which will increase the overall weight but the twin leisure batreries are amidships as is the satellite system and the inverter and the water tanks so these are spread between both axles.

we do use the garage, though, and keep two ebikes in there along with other light stuff like a windbreak, washing line, small tool kit and a flat plastic storage box of other bits and bobs, so nothing excessive to tip the balance.

my axle weights are 1600 (f) and 1820 ® and this gives a f/r percentage of 46.7/53.3 which is not far off the numbers i was suggesting in my earlier post...

i agree an 'empty' set of weights will give a good baseline but at the end of the day its the loaded state that counts...and all the heavy clothes storage and bedding wiill be in the rear...

a quick phone call should have the dealer rushing to the nearest weighbridge.....

[Derek Uzzell]

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-04 9:14 PM

 

I just noticed something interesting. The Certificat de Conformite from Rapido has 3650 as maximum mass (masse en charge maximale) and the axle weights are 1860 / 2000.

 

I also have the Certificat de Conformite from AL-KO and that has 3700 masse en charge maximale and 1960 / 2000 for the axles.

 

I read somewhere else that svtech can uprate a motorhome with only paperwork in some cases. Turns out they are based on my old home town which I am visiting anyway next week. Maybe I can squeeze out a little more payload based on the AL-KO documentation. Every little helps :)

 

BTW knowing what I know now, I might have chosen the heavy chassis back in October, but no point worrying about that now. I have to play the hand I have :)

 

Your motorhome has 3-stage construction, involving Fiat, AL-KO and Rapido. Each stage should result in a Certificate of Conformity (CoC) being produced and it’s Rapido’s CoC that 'counts’ where weight maxima, emissions figures, etc. are concerned.

 

It would be worth you contacting SVTech about weight uprating - you can do it on-line easily enough

 

http://www.svtech.co.uk/vehicles/motorhomes/

 

but I’d question whether going from a 3650kg overall weight maximum to 3700kg and/or from a 1860kg FRONT AXLE maximum to 1960kg would be worthwhile. SVTech would charge you about £350 for a ‘paperwork only’ uprating exercise and altering the weight maxima specified on the Rapido CoC would potentially impact on the motorhome’s warranty.

 

As Colin has advised earlier, a time-honoured approach to motorhome weight uprating is to increase the maximum overall weight to the total of the axle maxima. So 1860kg + 2000kg = 3860kg (Rapido CoC) or 1960kg + 2000kg = 3960kg (AL-KO CoC). But whether that type of increase can be fully exploited is another matter...

 

If a maximum axle-loading shown on the CoC is to be increased, mechanical changes might involve changing the original tyres to ones with a higher load-carrying capability (should be unnecessary with your 8096df as it will already have wheels and tyres able to safely handle an axle loading well beyond 2000kg) and (for the rear axle) beefing up the rear springing by installing a ‘semi-air’ kit (as I warned, expensive for an AL-KO chassis).

 

It’s not uncommon for buyers of new motorhomes to ask the vending dealership to have the vehicle weighed to confirm its ‘on delivery’ overall and axle weights. As Bolero Boy has said, the weights in normal ‘holidaying’ condition will be higher, but the dealership exercise should provide an owner with useful information.

[SteveWalmsley]

I've emailed the dealer (Brownhills) and asked about a weighbridge certificate. They've been very helpful with everything else so I'll update when I have a response.

[Keithl]

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 10:29 AM

 

I've emailed the dealer (Brownhills) and asked about a weighbridge certificate. They've been very helpful with everything else so I'll update when I have a response.

 

And make sure to ask for individual front and rear axle weights as well as overall weight.

 

The overall weight will NOT tell you the full picture!

 

Keith.

[SteveWalmsley]

Brownhills said the weights would be in the book pack that I collect with the motorhome, but there is a weighbridge nearby if I wanted a certificate (for me to arrange I assume). Its a new motorhome BTW.

 

I also had a response from SVTech. Can uprate to 3850 with no mods, although I would probably not achieve that in reality because the axle load would still be 1850 / 2000. Alternatively, I can have air suspension fitted plus new tyres and upgrade rear axle to 2240 kg. I assume that isn't cheap (although probably less than heavy chassis upgrade), but at least that gives me options if I do have any issues.

 

They advised to visit a weigh bridge before making any decisions.

 

EDIT: interestingly there are no weights listed on the log book, which turned up today. Impressive 3-day turnaround from registration at the post office. The MLM field exists but is blank. This is an Isle of Man registration so maybe that is normal. Road Tax here is based on CO2 emissions, not weight.

 

Tax for the Motorhome would have been about £2000 in the UK, but was only £360 in Isle of Man.

 

 

[Keithl]

I would make a satisfactory visit to the weighbridge BEFORE parting with any money a condition of sale. Then if it is too heavy you have bargaining power. If you pay your money then find it is inoperable you have lost the majority of your bargaining power.

 

Keith.

[SteveWalmsley]

Keithl - 2020-03-05 5:35 PM

 

I would make a satisfactory visit to the weighbridge BEFORE parting with any money a condition of sale. Then if it is too heavy you have bargaining power. If you pay your money then find it is inoperable you have lost the majority of your bargaining power.

 

Keith.

 

Already paid :)

 

Needed to pay before registering the vehicle. I am pretty happy with the situation though based on this thread and all other research I have done.

[Brian Kirby]

colin - 2020-03-04 9:23 PM...………………...The paperwork exercise (if they are happy with Alko chassis) will most likely be just adding up the two axle figures, before going down that route you would be best finding out what you have as actual figures when fully laden, if you hit the max on rear then no paperwork exercise will help, so that's a possible future job.

How you get on will depend very much on how you use the van. What I would say, in addition to all the above, is that you will be hostage to the way in which you load the van because it load margins on both axles are inevitably relatively slender, given the relatively slender payload. Our van is much smaller, is on the "heavy" chassis with its higher axle loads, and is relatively well balanced front to rear when fully laden. It is plated at 3,500kg MAM, and weighed in "empty" state (but with a full tank of fuel) the axle loads are 1,600kg front and 1,300kg rear for a total "unladen" (but not the legal definition of unladen) weight of 2,900kg. The maximum permissible axle loads are 2,100kg front and 2,400kg rear.

 

In full touring trim (so both of us on board, full water tank (100L), full fuel tank (120L), two full gas cylinders (one nominal 13kg which is 28kg actual including cylinder weight: the other nominal 5kg but actually 14.3kg including cylinder weight), plus food, fluids, cooking utensils, clothing, books, cameras, computers, washing gear and camping clutter, the front axle is at 1,740kg and the rear axle at 1,710kg, with an actual laden weight of 3,430kg. So, our added load (in a 6.0 metre long PVC) is 530kg.

 

I'm sure you will be able to make the Rapido work, but you will be liable to be right up to the limit, and will almost certainly be limited by the load on one, or other (I'm guessing rear) axle, before you hit your MAM.

 

The risk with overloading is not just being caught, it is with the tyres that have their own, individual, load limits which, if exceeded, can result in overheating and, ultimately, sudden failure.

 

Regarding your drive hump, do not forget that as you load the van you will further compress the springs, so reducing the actual mid-axle ground clearance. The difference will not be that great due to the reduced payload, but some all-round loss of ground clearance is inevitable.

[colin]

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 5:31 PM

 

Brownhills said the weights would be in the book pack that I collect with the motorhome,

 

 

Would be interested in what info you get, I've got a feeling it will just be the brochure figures which many have found to be way out.

 

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 5:31 PM

EDIT: interestingly there are no weights listed on the log book, which turned up today. Impressive 3-day turnaround from registration at the post office. The MLM field exists but is blank. This is an Isle of Man registration so maybe that is normal. Road Tax here is based on CO2 emissions, not weight.

 

The figures will be on the vehicle data plate.

[SteveWalmsley]

colin - 2020-03-05 6:27 PM

 

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 5:31 PM

 

Brownhills said the weights would be in the book pack that I collect with the motorhome,

 

 

Would be interested in what info you get, I've got a feeling it will just be the brochure figures which many have found to be way out.

 

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 5:31 PM

EDIT: interestingly there are no weights listed on the log book, which turned up today. Impressive 3-day turnaround from registration at the post office. The MLM field exists but is blank. This is an Isle of Man registration so maybe that is normal. Road Tax here is based on CO2 emissions, not weight.

 

The figures will be on the vehicle data plate.

 

I'll update the thread with everything when I pick it up next week.

[colin]

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 5:31 PM

I also had a response from SVTech. Can uprate to 3850 with no mods, although I would probably not achieve that in reality because the axle load would still be 1850 / 2000. Alternatively, I can have air suspension fitted plus new tyres and upgrade rear axle to 2240 kg. I assume that isn't cheap (although probably less than heavy chassis upgrade), but at least that gives me options if I do have any issues.

 

 

AFAIK air suspension on Alko with tyres and paperwork will cost over £2000.

[Derek Uzzell]

Steve

 

It’s virtually unknown for a new motorhome’s documentation to include ‘ex-factory’ weight details. It’s normal for a motorhome model’s “unladen weight in running order” (as Rapido calls it) to be quoted and maximum front and rear axle-loadings will be found if one is lucky! But you already know that your 8096df’s maxima are respectively 3125kg, 1850kg and 2000kg.

 

The wheel diameter of a standard 8096df built on a Fiat ‘light’ chassis is 15” and the tyre specification is 215/70 R15CP 109Q, with the 109 Load Index equating to a maximum axle-load of 2060kg. But your 8096df will have 16”-diameter wheels and 225/75 R16CP 116Q tyres, with the 116 Load Index equating to a maximum axle-load of 2500kg. So, if you chose to go for the 3850kg/2240kg overall/rear-axle uprating suggested by SVTech, there would be no need whatsoever to change the tyres,

 

In my posting of 3 March 2020 6:44 PM on Page 1 of this thread I mentioned that fitting air assistance (‘semi-air’) to your Rapido would help to address the chassis grounding issue - but I warned that this was not a cheap modification when a motorhome has an AL-KO chassis.

 

Fitting semi-air to the rear axle of a standard Fiat Ducato camping-car chassis is relatively straightforward and well within the capability of a competent DIYer, and a basic kit for a current Ducato might cost as little as £300.

 

Fitting semi-air to the rear axle of a Ducato with an AL-KO chassis is more complicated and DIYing the installation much less common. This link

 

https://www.rhinoinstalls.co.uk/VB-SemiAir-ALKO-Fiat-Ducato-Citroen-Relay-Peugeot-Boxer-2006-onwards-X250-X290

 

is to a company advertising a VB-airsuspension system for Ducato X250/X290 motorhomes that have an AL-KO chassis. The Supplied & Fitted price (for a single rear-axle vehicle like your Rapido) is given as £2075.00

 

More technical information on the VB-airsuspension website

 

https://www.vbairsuspension.com/upload/File/721155180820EN01-%20EN%20Product%20sheet%20VB-SemiAir%20PFC%20X250-X290%20AL-KO%20AMC.pdf

 

There are alternative ‘kits' that may be less expensive, but none will be cheap (some examples here)

 

https://www.alko-tech.com/uk/air-plus-air-suspension

 

https://glide-rite.com/product/al-ko-semi-air-suspension/

 

https://airride.co.uk/air-suspension-kit-for-vehicles/kits-van/al-ko-chassis-motorhomes/

[dawki]

Hi Steve

Regarding you original question regarding getting on the drive

Subject to what your dive is constructed of might it be possible to just alter the initial slope on your drive to help with you ground clearance?

[SteveWalmsley]

colin - 2020-03-05 6:44 PM

 

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 5:31 PM

I also had a response from SVTech. Can uprate to 3850 with no mods, although I would probably not achieve that in reality because the axle load would still be 1850 / 2000. Alternatively, I can have air suspension fitted plus new tyres and upgrade rear axle to 2240 kg. I assume that isn't cheap (although probably less than heavy chassis upgrade), but at least that gives me options if I do have any issues.

 

 

AFAIK air suspension on Alko with tyres and paperwork will cost over £2000.

 

Yes, that is the figure I found as well. That's actually not too bad considering the total cost of the motorhome because it sounds like it would make a significant different to the usable payload, if that proves to be necessary,

[SteveWalmsley]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-03-05 6:48 PM

 

Steve

 

It’s virtually unknown for a new motorhome’s documentation to include ‘ex-factory’ weight details. It’s normal for a motorhome model’s “unladen weight in running order” (as Rapido calls it) to be quoted and maximum front and rear axle-loadings will be found if one is lucky! But you already know that your 8096df’s maxima are respectively 3125kg, 1850kg and 2000kg.

 

The wheel diameter of a standard 8096df built on a Fiat ‘light’ chassis is 15” and the tyre specification is 215/70 R15CP 109Q, with the 109 Load Index equating to a maximum axle-load of 2060kg. But your 8096df will have 16”-diameter wheels and 225/75 R16CP 116Q tyres, with the 116 Load Index equating to a maximum axle-load of 2500kg. So, if you chose to go for the 3850kg/2240kg overall/rear-axle uprating suggested by SVTech, there would be no need whatsoever to change the tyres,

 

In my posting of 3 March 2020 6:44 PM on Page 1 of this thread I mentioned that fitting air assistance (‘semi-air’) to your Rapido would help to address the chassis grounding issue - but I warned that this was not a cheap modification when a motorhome has an AL-KO chassis.

 

Fitting semi-air to the rear axle of a standard Fiat Ducato camping-car chassis is relatively straightforward and well within the capability of a competent DIYer, and a basic kit for a current Ducato might cost as little as £300.

 

Fitting semi-air to the rear axle of a Ducato with an AL-KO chassis is more complicated and DIYing the installation much less common. This link

 

https://www.rhinoinstalls.co.uk/VB-SemiAir-ALKO-Fiat-Ducato-Citroen-Relay-Peugeot-Boxer-2006-onwards-X250-X290

 

is to a company advertising a VB-airsuspension system for Ducato X250/X290 motorhomes that have an AL-KO chassis. The Supplied & Fitted price (for a single rear-axle vehicle like your Rapido) is given as £2075.00

 

More technical information on the VB-airsuspension website

 

https://www.vbairsuspension.com/upload/File/721155180820EN01-%20EN%20Product%20sheet%20VB-SemiAir%20PFC%20X250-X290%20AL-KO%20AMC.pdf

 

There are alternative ‘kits' that may be less expensive, but none will be cheap (some examples here)

 

https://www.alko-tech.com/uk/air-plus-air-suspension

 

https://glide-rite.com/product/al-ko-semi-air-suspension/

 

https://airride.co.uk/air-suspension-kit-for-vehicles/kits-van/al-ko-chassis-motorhomes/

 

Thanks for your research. Good to know about the tyres. 2k is only about 2.5% of the cost of the motorhome, so I will definitely have the work done professionally if needed.

[Brian Kirby]

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-06 9:14 AM

 

colin - 2020-03-05 6:44 PM

 

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-05 5:31 PM

I also had a response from SVTech. Can uprate to 3850 with no mods, although I would probably not achieve that in reality because the axle load would still be 1850 / 2000. Alternatively, I can have air suspension fitted plus new tyres and upgrade rear axle to 2240 kg. I assume that isn't cheap (although probably less than heavy chassis upgrade), but at least that gives me options if I do have any issues.

 

 

AFAIK air suspension on Alko with tyres and paperwork will cost over £2000.

 

Yes, that is the figure I found as well. That's actually not too bad considering the total cost of the motorhome because it sounds like it would make a significant different to the usable payload, if that proves to be necessary,

I agree, and this would probably bring a really useful benefit to your MAM, and so to your payload.

 

But, do remember that Rapido, AlKo and Fiat ('though I don't think it would affect the Fiat warranty, as their bits terminate just behind the front seats) all offer warranties that may be prejudiced by fitting an unapproved air suspension kit to the AlKo rear axle of your van. Since the modification will affect only the rear (AlKo) axle, if you wish to maintain AlKo's warranties in force, I think it might be wise to have the AlKo "air over" units fitted in cooperation with AlKo UK so that they are fully aware. Failure of the AlKo axles etc is not common, especially in the first few years, so invalidating their warranty would not, IMO, present a huge risk. But, the cost of repairing the axle should it prove faulty within the warranty period, and AlKo reject the claim on the ground that an unauthorised addition had been fitted, would almost certainly cost you more than the difference between AlKo's air units and those of A N Other.

 

Since the van is new, it might be worth bringing Rapido into the picture via your dealer and seeing whether they would issue a revised VIN plate for the van (and so update their build records) so that the upgrade appears authentic and doesn't raise suspicions of any subsequent buyer. We bought a Hymer Exis in 2013 that I had optionally plated at 3,700kg from new but, after running it for 3 years and finding that while it "flirted" with 3,500kg it didn't exceed it, and having passed 70 and then needing triennial medical examinations to maintain my C1 driving licence, I decided to down-plate the van to 3,500kg and pay the additional VED. This required the issue of a new V5C, for which DVLA required evidence from the manufacturer (or an authorised engineer) that the vehicle remained satisfactory for road use after the down plate, so I approached Hymer via Premier Motorhomes at Chichester, who duly obliged and Hymer issued a replacement plate (actually a transfer to substitute for that originally supplied). They charged for the service, but the result was a van that was completely authentic with no visible evidence (except in Hymer's own records) that its original state had been altered. As your van will be quite new at whatever time post delivery you get the axle up-rated, you may wish to investigate a similar process for the up-rating.

 

However, I would suggest first getting it, and using it a few times, to see whether the payload is workable for you before embarking on retro-fitting the air suspension units - you never know! If it ain't broke, why fix it? :-D

 

Final thought re AlKo. Check the service requirements for the AlKo axle, as these tend to have one grease nipple each side for the swing arm bearing which, if not greased, leads to premature wear on the bearing bush. Our Hymer needed the greasing to be carried out annually, whereas the Fiat bits needed servicing every two years, and greasing the AlKo bush is not part of the Fiat service schedule for a Ducato, apart from which few Fiat Commercial workshops now have grease guns, and even fewer grease guns with the specified grade of grease! Ultimately, Premier greased the bushes while carrying out the annual damp check.

[SteveWalmsley]

Brian Kirby - 2020-03-06 6:44 PM

 

SteveWalmsley - 2020-03-06 9:14 AM

Yes, that is the figure I found as well. That's actually not too bad considering the total cost of the motorhome because it sounds like it would make a significant different to the usable payload, if that proves to be necessary,

I agree, and this would probably bring a really useful benefit to your MAM, and so to your payload.

 

But, do remember that Rapido, AlKo and Fiat ('though I don't think it would affect the Fiat warranty, as their bits terminate just behind the front seats) all offer warranties that may be prejudiced by fitting an unapproved air suspension kit to the AlKo rear axle of your van. Since the modification will affect only the rear (AlKo) axle, if you wish to maintain AlKo's warranties in force, I think it might be wise to have the AlKo "air over" units fitted in cooperation with AlKo UK so that they are fully aware. Failure of the AlKo axles etc is not common, especially in the first few years, so invalidating their warranty would not, IMO, present a huge risk. But, the cost of repairing the axle should it prove faulty within the warranty period, and AlKo reject the claim on the ground that an unauthorised addition had been fitted, would almost certainly cost you more than the difference between AlKo's air units and those of A N Other.

 

Since the van is new, it might be worth bringing Rapido into the picture via your dealer and seeing whether they would issue a revised VIN plate for the van (and so update their build records) so that the upgrade appears authentic and doesn't raise suspicions of any subsequent buyer. We bought a Hymer Exis in 2013 that I had optionally plated at 3,700kg from new but, after running it for 3 years and finding that while it "flirted" with 3,500kg it didn't exceed it, and having passed 70 and then needing triennial medical examinations to maintain my C1 driving licence, I decided to down-plate the van to 3,500kg and pay the additional VED. This required the issue of a new V5C, for which DVLA required evidence from the manufacturer (or an authorised engineer) that the vehicle remained satisfactory for road use after the down plate, so I approached Hymer via Premier Motorhomes at Chichester, who duly obliged and Hymer issued a replacement plate (actually a transfer to substitute for that originally supplied). They charged for the service, but the result was a van that was completely authentic with no visible evidence (except in Hymer's own records) that its original state had been altered. As your van will be quite new at whatever time post delivery you get the axle up-rated, you may wish to investigate a similar process for the up-rating.

 

However, I would suggest first getting it, and using it a few times, to see whether the payload is workable for you before embarking on retro-fitting the air suspension units - you never know! If it ain't broke, why fix it? :-D

 

Final thought re AlKo. Check the service requirements for the AlKo axle, as these tend to have one grease nipple each side for the swing arm bearing which, if not greased, leads to premature wear on the bearing bush. Our Hymer needed the greasing to be carried out annually, whereas the Fiat bits needed servicing every two years, and greasing the AlKo bush is not part of the Fiat service schedule for a Ducato, apart from which few Fiat Commercial workshops now have grease guns, and even fewer grease guns with the specified grade of grease! Ultimately, Premier greased the bushes while carrying out the annual damp check.

 

Thanks. That is all really good advice. If I have the suspension fitted I will definitely go down the AL-KO approved route, even if it is more expensive.

[Derek Uzzell]

Brian Kirby - 2020-03-06 6:44 PM

 

...But, do remember that Rapido, AlKo and Fiat ('though I don't think it would affect the Fiat warranty, as their bits terminate just behind the front seats) all offer warranties that may be prejudiced by fitting an unapproved air suspension kit to the AlKo rear axle of your van...

 

Although a Rapido 8096df starts life as a Ducato cowl-unit that then has an AL-KO chassis frame + axle bolted on to it, the AL-KO rear axle will have Fiat hubs and brakes attached to it and those brakes will be integrated into the vehicle’s ‘safety systems’ (eg. ABS). So uprating the motorhome’s original weight maxima or adding semi-air will potentially affect the Fiat warranty as well as the AL-KO warranty.

 

For the 8096df model Rapido offers rear axle-only or front+rear axle AL-KO “Air Premium”, but only for vehicles built on a ‘heavy’ Ducato chassis. The AL-KO “ALC” system seems to be available as a factory option (20kg weight penalty) for ‘light’ and ‘heavy’ chassis versions, but the following links suggest

 

https://www.alko-tech.com/uk/al-ko-level-controller-alc

 

https://www.alko-tech.com/sites/default/files/uploaded_files/EN/499621_htk-reisemobile_12-2018_en.pdf

 

that ALC would not address Steve’s mid-wheelbase grounding concerns.

 

Not offered by Rapido is AL-KO “Air Plus”

 

https://www.alko-tech.com/uk/air-plus-air-suspension

 

but that’s what would be needed (with the optional compressor kit) to gain extra under-chassis ground clearance.

 

This 2017 forum thread discussed ‘grounding’ of an AL-KO-chassis Pilote motorhome, but that was happening at the vehicle’s rear end, not mid-wheelbase.

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Air-suspension/47157/

 

If Steve can satisfactorily operate his 8096df within its current 3650kg/1850kg/2000kg weight maxima, and cope with the possible grounding issue at his home, uprating should not be necessary.

 

Although not directly relevant, Rapido markets the 2020 8096df with a 3500kg maximum overall weight, In its home market, most 8096df motorhomes will be bought at that weight and the French owners are most unlikely to be concerned about overloading and definitely won’t be retro-fitting air-assistance to the rear axle.

 

 

 

 

[Nicepix]

This might be a stupid question so bare with me. Some people have questioned the size of the wheels which I took to be relevant to the ground clearance of the vehicle. I thought that the outside diameter of the tyres would be the same whether the wheels were 16" or not. My understanding, and I could be very wrong, is that the wheel itself is larger when the tyres are low profile and so the actual outside diameter of the tyre would be the same. If this is not the case then not only would the vehicle height and ground clearance be more, but so would the gearing and that would throw the speedo' out.

 

 

 

[Keithl]

Nicepix - 2020-03-07 11:52 AM

 

This might be a stupid question so bare with me. Some people have questioned the size of the wheels which I took to be relevant to the ground clearance of the vehicle. I thought that the outside diameter of the tyres would be the same whether the wheels were 16" or not. My understanding, and I could be very wrong, is that the wheel itself is larger when the tyres are low profile and so the actual outside diameter of the tyre would be the same. If this is not the case then not only would the vehicle height and ground clearance be more, but so would the gearing and that would throw the speedo' out.

 

From one of Derek's previous posting these are the respective tyre sizes...

 

Derek Uzzell - 2020-03-05 6:48 PM

 

The wheel diameter of a standard 8096df built on a Fiat ‘light’ chassis is 15” and the tyre specification is 215/70 R15CP 109Q, with the 109 Load Index equating to a maximum axle-load of 2060kg. But your 8096df will have 16”-diameter wheels and 225/75 R16CP 116Q tyres, with the 116 Load Index equating to a maximum axle-load of 2500kg.

 

And looking at the Conti technicla databook the respective radii are:

 

215/70 R15CP 311 mm

225/75 R16CP 338 mm

 

So this will give an axle height increase of 27 mm or just over one inch.

 

Source of info: https://blobs.continental-tires.com/www8/servlet/blob/85806/e0854f2c7866c64da551474b998ef8b3/download-technical-databook-data.pdf

 

And the revs per mile will drop from 752 to 689 so approx an 8% change in speedo reading!

 

Keith.

[goldi]

Good afternoon,

 

On my van I press a button and the suspension lifts the van for extra clearance for approach and departure angles also off road. its vb air suspension. I have also heard of people fitting castors to after market bumpers for such situations.