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Topping up batteries


mikejkay

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Van is four years old now and I have just had it serviced and MOT'd. I asked the garage to grease the rear axles and I also asked them to top up both batteries. I was told that they couldn't top up the batteries because of health and safety issues. All this is news to me. Are they correct?

 

How do I check electrolyte levels when the screw tops are covered by a metal plate with fuses etc. Ithe plate surely has to be removed. Any precautions that I should take in removing it?

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If your van is Fiat/Peugeot based ,Remove the earth (black) lead (This is important) from the battery negative terminal, before removing the battery hold down strap and then the positive side which normally has a self tapper type screw as well as the clamp holding the plate and fuses on to the positive terminal.

You should be able to move things enough to get to the filler plugs.

When you put it back together fit the negative(black ) terminal last.

I expect you will need to reset the clock.

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Mike

 

The original starter-battery of X250/X290 Fiat Ducatos (2006-onwards) is normally a FIAMM-branded ‘maintainable’ type.

 

As you are aware, the battery is housed in a compartment in the left footwell of the Ducato’s cab and - as you’ve realised and is apparent from the attached image below - some of the cell-caps that allow the battery’s electrolyte-level to be checked and topped up are ‘masked'.

 

As you rightly say, to confirm that the electrolyte-level in all 6 cells is correct will require that the battery be disconnected. This was discussed in these earlier forum threads

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Fiat-vehicle-battery-access/45861/

 

https://forums.outandaboutlive.co.uk/forums/Motorhomes/Motorhome-Matters/Battery-Liquid-Level-/48161/

 

In principle, if a Ducato is serviced by a Fiat Agent, the starter-battery’s electrolyte-level should be checked during the service. I don’t how assiduously this is done (ie. whether all 6 cells are individually checked) and I can well believe that, if the Ducato is a motorhome and its cab's footwell is carpeted, that the starter-battery may not be inspected.

 

Some X250/X290 Ducatos have a 2nd (metal) lid beneath the plastic lid over the starter-battery, plus a cover over the battery’s positive terminal - but many Ducatos have neither. This Fiat Forum thread describes how to replace the battery and the advice includes how to remove the ‘stuff’ attached to the battery’s terminals.

 

https://www.fiatforum.com/ducato/357146-x250-replacing-starter-battery.html

 

It is to be expected that your 2016 motorhome’s starter-battery is ‘maintainable’ in that its cell-caps can be unscrewed and the battery’s electrolyte-level checked and topped up should this prove necessary. However, the habitation-battery normally chosen by Hymer has historically been gel-type and, more recently, AGM-type. Gel and AGM batteries do not have a ‘maintenance’ capability - the cell-caps are not intended to be removed and no electrolyte-level checking can be carried out. So, if your Hymer has a gel or AGM battery, there’s no point you asking your garage to top it up as they cannot. (A battery’s labelling should clearly indicate if it is gel or AGM type.)

 

Most vehicle batteries nowadays (even ordinary ‘wet-acid’ ones) are designed to be ‘disposable’ and, consequently, their cell-caps are covered and not intended to be unscrewed - so I’m not too surprised if a garage should decide not to involve themselves with checking the relatively few vehicle batteries that can be checked. The Fiat Ducato scheduled servicing plan does include a fluid level check for the starter-battery, but I don’t know how (or if) this is normally done. (Where it is practicable I’ve always checked my vehicles’ batteries fairly regularly myself and, when the vehicle is serviced, told the garage that they need not perform that check.)

 

In a 10 March 2020 posting I said

 

...it will not be practicable to unscrew all six of the cell-caps without first removing the battery’s metal hold-down ’strap’ and the piece of equipment covering the two caps near the battery’s positive (+) terminal.

 

...even if you don’t want to disconnect the battery I suggest you remove the hold-down strap and unscrew the three cell-caps that will then become accessible. If the electrolyte level in those three cells is OK, there’s a reasonable chance that the electrolyte level in the three inaccessible cells will also be OK...

 

If you do disconnect your Hymer’s starter-battery, it definitely will be necessary to reset the date/time on the dashboard display afterwards, but that’s a simple thing to do. Battery disconnection often used to affect the radio unit, but that’s less common nowadays. There are ways to sidestep this potential problem, as described here

 

https://www.tayna.co.uk/tutorials/change-car-battery-without-losing-radio-code

936439665_starterbattery.jpg.488b0e034152f97004e9166b6e8b25c5.jpg

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Many thanks to Buddy and Derek for their informative replies. I hope that I haven't screwed up! :'( . I topped up the cells to which I could gain access with water without even thinking what sort of batteries they were. If they are gel batteries could I have caused damage? Is it possible to ascertain the type of battery without having to lift them out?
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If you are talking about the starter battery and it looks like the photo with filler plugs that screwed out it will be wet battery and no problem. You normally cannot get to inside of other types of batteries (unless very determined). Your other battery may ,as Derek stated, be gel and you should not attempt to get inside it and I would not expect it to have access plugs.

If you are not sure about the habitation battery could you see any markings on it?

 

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mikejkay - 2020-03-12 3:35 PM

 

Many thanks to Buddy and Derek for their informative replies. I hope that I haven't screwed up! :'( . I topped up the cells to which I could gain access with water without even thinking what sort of batteries they were. If they are gel batteries could I have caused damage? Is it possible to ascertain the type of battery without having to lift them out?

 

If you can open the caps to get to the cells and you didn't have to use brute force and hammer and chisel etc

all's good

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buddy - 2020-03-10 8:15 PM

 

If your van is Fiat/Peugeot based ,Remove the earth (black) lead (This is important) from the battery negative terminal, before removing the battery hold down strap and then the positive side which normally has a self tapper type screw as well as the clamp holding the plate and fuses on to the positive terminal.

You should be able to move things enough to get to the filler plugs.

When you put it back together fit the negative(black ) terminal last.

I expect you will need to reset the clock.

 

With a Peugeot based MH with no alarm as yet. Cover up the solar panel.Off with the earth strap and then the live end off the battery. Off with the bracket check and top up the cells. Back together in reverse order?

Is it just a case of resetting the stations on the radio or does it have a code?

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My Peugeot based (2015) van did not need code,I think you will find that the radio (if original) is linked to your particular van,and when I reconnected my battery all I had to reset was the clock/date.

Dont forget that as well as undoing the terminal clamp on the positive side you need to remove the 2x self tapping screws in the red plastic bit on the metal plate which go into the battery to stop it moving about.

Yes disconnect the negative lead and then the hold down bracket( it gets in the way) followed by the positive side terminal as described. There may be a fuse you can remove for the solar but covering it will do the job but do not uncover it until everything is reconnected on the battery side of things.

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Paul- - 2020-03-12 4:45 PM

 

mikejkay - 2020-03-12 3:35 PM

 

Many thanks to Buddy and Derek for their informative replies. I hope that I haven't screwed up! :'( . I topped up the cells to which I could gain access with water without even thinking what sort of batteries they were. If they are gel batteries could I have caused damage? Is it possible to ascertain the type of battery without having to lift them out?

 

If you can open the caps to get to the cells and you didn't have to use brute force and hammer and chisel etc

all's good

 

Good advice, though gel and AGM batteries can have ‘caps’ that look like they may be removable (image of Exide gel battery attached)

 

If there’s no visible labelling stating what type the battery is, either take the battery out and check further or seek advice from someone who is battery-literate.

1397914150_exidegel.jpg.490aa1cb3232aee6edc72724c14487ae.jpg

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mikejkay - 2020-03-13 3:41 PM

 

Derek

Fortunately, the filler caps are the old fashioned type as shown on your previous photo. I'm sure the question can be answered by taking the battery out but I'm getting past humping starter batteries about :-(

 

Why would you need to remove the battery? All I ever did was remove the leads and the clamp holding it down, then undo the caps with a 20p piece.

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mikejkay - 2020-03-13 3:41 PM

 

Derek

Fortunately, the filler caps are the old fashioned type as shown on your previous photo. I'm sure the question can be answered by taking the battery out but I'm getting past humping starter batteries about :-(

 

As far as I’m aware Fiat has continued to fit a ‘maintainable’ wet-acid starter-battery to Ducato right up to 2020, though with Start/Stop becoming more common Fiat may opt in future for a different type.

 

It’s reasonable to assume that any battery that have instantly accessible cell-caps that have a simple cross cut into them will be ‘maintainable, with the cell-caps being unscrewable so that the battery’s electrolyte-level can checked and topped up if necessary.

 

(There can be variations in the design of removable cell-caps and the type shown in the attached image of a Banner ‘maintainable’ leisure battery can be extremely difficult to unscrew.)

 

Although it is often obvious when a battery is NOT intended to be ‘maintained’ (ie. there are no instantly acccessible cell-caps) there are gel and AGM batteries that have cell-caps that look like they might be removable with a suitable tool but, in fact, this should not be attempted.

 

Your Hymer manual may well say what type of leisure battery should have been fitted when your motorhome was built (probably an AGM type) but this is something you really should confirm. If you’ve made your Hymer’s leisure battery so inaccessible that you cannot see sufficient of it to decide whether it is ‘maintainable' or not, how will it be replaced if it fails? There’s also the matter of matching the charging regimen of your Hymer’s onboard battery-charger to the leisure battery type as wet-acid, gel and AGM batteries should be charged differently.

banner.jpg.ed5edbda30a453f2d635288fd452f038.jpg

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My 2017 Relay has the FIAMM-branded battery and looks identical to the one in the first pic that Derek posted above. The battery has a dead cell and when I removed it I noticed the level was low, topped it up and put it on charge and all cells showed activity (gassing) except the dead one so I guess its to late. I have put another battery in for now so it can be started periodically while in storage. One thing is since Ieft the cover off and the metal retaining bar I have had a few mice in the van :-( I can't imagine that the battery compartment would be open to the outside and provide an entry for mice but its the first time mice have got in after over 3 years of winter storage. Maybe just a coincidence but if anyone is removing the battery could they check if there is anywhere for mice to enter in the battery compartment as i'm overseas and look like I might not be able to get to travel back to pick up the van this year :-(
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I’m pretty sure (ie. 99% sure) that the only openings into the in-the-floor starter-battery compartment of a Boxer/Ducato/Relay X250/X290 model (other than from the top) are the small holes in the compartment’s base through which the battery’s vent-tube passes - and I would have thought even Micky Micro-Mouse shouldn’t be able to use those holes to wriggle its way in.

 

Not having removed one of these batteries I can’t say for certain the above is true, but the attached photo suggests it is.

battery.jpg.d46e841c61973ad060b0ca07b0145e6b.jpg

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There are some holes in the battery compartment, I didn't specifically think about mice when changing the battery, but I don't think they would be a concern.

p.s. now I think about it, where the clamp fits this might be a entry point, I'll have a look sometime, but I think it would apply if clamp was fitted or not,

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Thanks guys, I forgot about the vent tube as that was still attached to the battery I removed. I would imagine the hole would be pretty small however so unlikely they would get through it as you say Derek. Would be interested if there is a possible entry point where the clamp fits as my mother in-law says she can see something related to the brakes when she shines a torch through it (?) she is 85 and Swedish so communication isn't the best. I was hoping to get over there at the end of next month but not sure if I can as Denmark has now closed its borders to non citizens.
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