Is the Opposition worth listenning t?

[StuartO]

Criticism of the Government for past failure is merely criticism (with the benefit of hindsight) and isn’t doing anything useful in the present context of a national emergency.  It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

The Opposition will be doing something useful when they start coming up with constructive ideas. 

[John52]

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AM

 

(with the benefit of hindsight)

we knew about the virus back in December, and other countries were preparing back in January and February

[John52]

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AM

 

It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

 

The pilot was still at the controls whilst unconscious in intensive care.

Couldn't we do better than that?

[pepe63xnotuse]

John52 - 2020-04-14 10:09 AM

 

StuartO - 2020-04-14 8:31 AM

The Government are keeping their cards close to their chest

which translates to 'haven't a clue'

StuartO - 2020-04-14 8:31 AM

following the science all the way

which translates to 'blame someone else'

 

The tragedy is Britain started out with all the advantages - being surrounded by water to keep the virus out, and having the most notice. We could have stopped the virus at the border.

But what were they doing back in January and February whilst other countries were securing their suppliers?

 

They were busy telling us to wash our hands and to cough into the crook of our elbows! (that, and that we must save the economy!)

All whilst people were still being allowed to fly and trundle back from infected countries pretty much unchecked, all with little more than a "..if you feel a bit under the weather, can you stay at home for a week please..."

That must be right up there with the 1970s Protect and Survive- "..hide under the stairs" advice.. *-)

 

Remember those first few coach loads they brought back in from Wuhan, and they were quarantined? Why wasn't that approach maintained?

 

My OH is a front line NHS clinician (working from various GP surgeries and NHS hospital "satellite" clinics), and she's been using the masks and gloves that I bought via ebay when I first saw this coming.

Just as well because some of the clinics/surgeries hadn't got enough (if any at all, to start with!).

 

Now, whilst it isn't up to any government to stock someone's store cupboards for them, they are ones in charge ultimately , and have been for 10 (TEN) years!

 

It's a very scary, very shambolic situation!

(but hey, it still seems as if some like to think that it's "the opposition" who are at fault for not coming up with anything constructive.. *-)

[malc d]

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AM

 

 It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane.

 

 

 

Circumstances have proved that Johnson is not the only available pilot.

( Fortunately ).

 

:-|

[StuartO]

I was referring to changing the Government (for a Government formed by another Party or a National Government)  rather than a need to replace an individual.  The Labour Party is in no state to form a government on its own at the moment and they would be pushed to provide more than a handful who were experienced and capable enough to be ministers.

Obviously it would have been a big blow if we'd lost Boris the Figurehead, but that wouldn't have been a loss of the Government and another team member would have stepped up to the plate.  I imagine the Conservative Party would have recognised the complete impracticability of a Leadership Election and they would have solved the problem of the succession by going into a huddle in a smoke-filled room instead.  Thankfully Boris is recovering and thereafter he will be immune from COVID-19 as well as pretty bullet-proof in his job for a while.

[John52]

malc d - 2020-04-14 12:14 PM

 

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AM

 

 It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane.

 

 

 

Circumstances have proved that Johnson is not the only available pilot.

( Fortunately ).

 

:-|

 

'Not the only available pilot' is the understatement of the day - Westminster is absurdly over-populated with more pointless politicians and hangers on than any other Government in the world as far as I know.

But BoJo is the Tory Party darling because he is a master of deception and has the media in his pocket, which is exactly what the Tories need to get elected :-S

[Barryd999]

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AMCriticism of the Government for past failure is merely criticism (with the benefit of hindsight) and isn’t doing anything useful in the present context of a national emergency.  It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

The Opposition will be doing something useful when they start coming up with constructive ideas. 

How can the opposition come up with constructive ideas when there is no data or access to the science for them to look at. The Government are the only people with that information and they are in control of the scientists they roll out every now and again. Basically we are in a situation where we have to just trust Boris Johnson and his cabinet. 8-) Dunno about anyone else but even most people who voted for them classed them as untrustworthy.Parliament has to be brought back by whatever means, bloody skype or Zoom if necessary and the data and science made available to the opposition.

[Birdbrain]

John52 - 2020-04-14 10:04 AM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-14 6:34 AM

... You care only to misrepresent a headline in a Tory supporting newspaper

 

I quoted it word for word and asked for opinions on whether it was insensitive to the relatives of those who had died that day.

 

Folk die every day why was that Friday any different ???

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 4:18 PM

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AMCriticism of the Government for past failure is merely criticism (with the benefit of hindsight) and isn’t doing anything useful in the present context of a national emergency.  It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

The Opposition will be doing something useful when they start coming up with constructive ideas. 

How can the opposition come up with constructive ideas when there is no data or access to the science for them to look at. .

You mean that data that the government produces everyday? :-| ........Kinda sounds like you are complaining that the opposition are not having enough time to complain about those that have died *-) ........

[Bulletguy]

pepe63 - 2020-04-14 12:06 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-14 10:09 AM

 

StuartO - 2020-04-14 8:31 AM

The Government are keeping their cards close to their chest

which translates to 'haven't a clue'

StuartO - 2020-04-14 8:31 AM

following the science all the way

which translates to 'blame someone else'

 

The tragedy is Britain started out with all the advantages - being surrounded by water to keep the virus out, and having the most notice. We could have stopped the virus at the border.

But what were they doing back in January and February whilst other countries were securing their suppliers?

 

They were busy telling us to wash our hands and to cough into the crook of our elbows! (that, and that we must save the economy!)

All whilst people were still being allowed to fly and trundle back from infected countries pretty much unchecked, all with little more than a "..if you feel a bit under the weather, can you stay at home for a week please..."

That must be right up there with the 1970s Protect and Survive- "..hide under the stairs" advice. *-)

Yes those Public Info films were absolute classic gems of batty 'Britishness'......folk living in tower blocks were basically stuffed unless they invaded their neighbours on the bottom four floors. The bit i liked was instructions on how to build your own "fallout shelter" using pieces of string and old wood doors! 8-)

 

 

The same black humour sometimes surfaced among folk at my old workplace where 'elf 'n safety had foremen going into a tizzy if they spotted anyone without their ppe overalls fully buttoned up to the neck. If a 'live' round went off accidentally, which did happen, buttons ain't going to save you! And if a powder room went up, which one did one night....forget buttons, you're history!

 

Remember those first few coach loads they brought back in from Wuhan, and they were quarantined? Why wasn't that approach maintained?

Who could forget them? But whilst each coach was accompanied by a 'guard' in full hazmat gear, the poor drivers must have drawn the short straw as they had to go without protection!

 

But you are right. Why were all returning Brits not quarantined or at the very least, tested? We had many returning from France, Italy and Spain, by then known 'hot-spots' in particular Spain where most were coming from, yet all were simply allowed to wander freely back in totally unchecked. Bonkers.

 

My OH is a front line NHS clinician (working from various GP surgeries and NHS hospital "satellite" clinics), and she's been using the masks and gloves that I bought via ebay when I first saw this coming.

Just as well because some of the clinics/surgeries hadn't got enough (if any at all, to start with!).

 

Now, whilst it isn't up to any government to stock someone's store cupboards for them, they are ones in charge ultimately , and have been for 10 (TEN) years!

 

It's a very scary, very shambolic situation!

(but hey, it still seems as if some like to think that it's "the opposition" who are at fault for not coming up with anything constructive.. *-)

It's good to hear first hand info from the front line Pepe and i can well understand and empathise with your situation regards your wife. A sad reflection you had to turn to ebay to buy your own PPE and we already know of nursing staff using bin-bags, some of whom have since tested positive. The worlds fifth wealthiest nation has responded to this pandemic more like a banana republic and many very serious questions now need answers. The warnings were there. Government had been warned three years ago after 'wargaming' a flu pandemic and advised that there was insufficient equipment to cope, but rejected implementing the advice as "too costly". So excuses of 'hindsight' etc won't wash.

 

Keep us all posted on the ppe progress....if any. :-(

[Guest pelmetman]

Bulletguy - 2020-04-14 5:41 PM

 

pepe63 - 2020-04-14 12:06 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-14 10:09 AM

 

StuartO - 2020-04-14 8:31 AM

The Government are keeping their cards close to their chest

which translates to 'haven't a clue'

StuartO - 2020-04-14 8:31 AM

following the science all the way

which translates to 'blame someone else'

 

The tragedy is Britain started out with all the advantages - being surrounded by water to keep the virus out, and having the most notice. We could have stopped the virus at the border.

But what were they doing back in January and February whilst other countries were securing their suppliers?

 

They were busy telling us to wash our hands and to cough into the crook of our elbows! (that, and that we must save the economy!)

All whilst people were still being allowed to fly and trundle back from infected countries pretty much unchecked, all with little more than a "..if you feel a bit under the weather, can you stay at home for a week please..."

That must be right up there with the 1970s Protect and Survive- "..hide under the stairs" advice. *-)

Yes those Public Info films were absolute classic gems of batty 'Britishness'......folk living in tower blocks were basically stuffed unless they invaded their neighbours on the bottom four floors. The bit i liked was instructions on how to build your own "fallout shelter" using pieces of string and old wood doors! 8-)

 

 

The same black humour sometimes surfaced among folk at my old workplace where 'elf 'n safety had foremen going into a tizzy if they spotted anyone without their ppe overalls fully buttoned up to the neck. If a 'live' round went off accidentally, which did happen, buttons ain't going to save you! And if a powder room went up, which one did one night....forget buttons, you're history!

 

Remember those first few coach loads they brought back in from Wuhan, and they were quarantined? Why wasn't that approach maintained?

Who could forget them? But whilst each coach was accompanied by a 'guard' in full hazmat gear, the poor drivers must have drawn the short straw as they had to go without protection!

 

But you are right. Why were all returning Brits not quarantined or at the very least, tested? We had many returning from France, Italy and Spain, by then known 'hot-spots' in particular Spain where most were coming from, yet all were simply allowed to wander freely back in totally unchecked. Bonkers.

 

My OH is a front line NHS clinician (working from various GP surgeries and NHS hospital "satellite" clinics), and she's been using the masks and gloves that I bought via ebay when I first saw this coming.

Just as well because some of the clinics/surgeries hadn't got enough (if any at all, to start with!).

 

Now, whilst it isn't up to any government to stock someone's store cupboards for them, they are ones in charge ultimately , and have been for 10 (TEN) years!

 

It's a very scary, very shambolic situation!

(but hey, it still seems as if some like to think that it's "the opposition" who are at fault for not coming up with anything constructive.. *-)

It's good to hear first hand info from the front line Pepe and i can well understand and empathise with your situation regards your wife. A sad reflection you had to turn to ebay to buy your own PPE and we already know of nursing staff using bin-bags, some of whom have since tested positive. The worlds fifth wealthiest nation has responded to this pandemic more like a banana republic and many very serious questions now need answers. The warnings were there. Government had been warned three years ago after 'wargaming' a flu pandemic and advised that there was insufficient equipment to cope, but rejected implementing the advice as "too costly". So excuses of 'hindsight' etc won't wash.

 

Keep us all posted on the ppe progress....if any. :-(

 

WOT no welcome home Bullet? :D .........

 

I guess you are keeping uptodate with all the PPE shortages across the EU? ;-) .......

 

Just asking for a bloke who recently returned from Spain B-) ........

 

 

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2020-04-14 5:16 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 4:18 PM

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AMCriticism of the Government for past failure is merely criticism (with the benefit of hindsight) and isn’t doing anything useful in the present context of a national emergency.  It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

The Opposition will be doing something useful when they start coming up with constructive ideas. 

How can the opposition come up with constructive ideas when there is no data or access to the science for them to look at. .

You mean that data that the government produces everyday? :-| ........Kinda sounds like you are complaining that the opposition are not having enough time to complain about those that have died *-) ........

No you idiot! Not the statistics and information the government puts out which they produce themselves, the data that they base their decisions on.

[Guest pelmetman]

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 6:10 PM

pelmetman - 2020-04-14 5:16 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 4:18 PM

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AMCriticism of the Government for past failure is merely criticism (with the benefit of hindsight) and isn’t doing anything useful in the present context of a national emergency.  It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

The Opposition will be doing something useful when they start coming up with constructive ideas. 

How can the opposition come up with constructive ideas when there is no data or access to the science for them to look at. .

You mean that data that the government produces everyday? :-| ........Kinda sounds like you are complaining that the opposition are not having enough time to complain about those that have died *-) ........

No you idiot! Not the statistics and information the government puts out which they produce themselves, the data that they base their decisions on.

You mean that "Data" that with hindsight you will want to weaponise? ;-) ........Is it not time for you Remainers to accept that Brexit is over and we have a much more serious battle to fight :-| .......

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2020-04-14 6:19 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 6:10 PM

pelmetman - 2020-04-14 5:16 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 4:18 PM

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AMCriticism of the Government for past failure is merely criticism (with the benefit of hindsight) and isn’t doing anything useful in the present context of a national emergency.  It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

The Opposition will be doing something useful when they start coming up with constructive ideas. 

How can the opposition come up with constructive ideas when there is no data or access to the science for them to look at. .

You mean that data that the government produces everyday? :-| ........Kinda sounds like you are complaining that the opposition are not having enough time to complain about those that have died *-) ........

No you idiot! Not the statistics and information the government puts out which they produce themselves, the data that they base their decisions on.

You mean that "Data" that with hindsight you will want to weaponise? ;-) ........Is it not time for you Remainers to accept that Brexit is over and we have a much more serious battle to fight :-| .......

WTF has Brexit got to do with any of it? Nobody is talking about weaponising anything. Just questioning and opposing where required and supporting when required. Giving this lot a free reign in what you correctly say is a much more serious battle seems a very dangerous road to go down.

[Birdbrain]

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 7:02 PM

pelmetman - 2020-04-14 6:19 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 6:10 PM

pelmetman - 2020-04-14 5:16 PM

Barryd999 - 2020-04-14 4:18 PM

StuartO - 2020-04-14 10:51 AMCriticism of the Government for past failure is merely criticism (with the benefit of hindsight) and isn’t doing anything useful in the present context of a national emergency.  It’s not as if there is any possibility of changing the Government; in this context that would be like throwing the only available pilot out of the aeroplane. 

The Opposition will be doing something useful when they start coming up with constructive ideas. 

How can the opposition come up with constructive ideas when there is no data or access to the science for them to look at. .

You mean that data that the government produces everyday? :-| ........Kinda sounds like you are complaining that the opposition are not having enough time to complain about those that have died *-) ........

No you idiot! Not the statistics and information the government puts out which they produce themselves, the data that they base their decisions on.

You mean that "Data" that with hindsight you will want to weaponise? ;-) ........Is it not time for you Remainers to accept that Brexit is over and we have a much more serious battle to fight :-| .......

WTF has Brexit got to do with any of it? Nobody is talking about weaponising anything. Just questioning and opposing where required and supporting when required. Giving this lot a free reign in what you correctly say is a much more serious battle seems a very dangerous road to go down.

Barry of course would much have preferred a terrorist loving anti-Semite to be in charge through the China Virus crisis ... All that time he spent campaigning for him and just to be dumped ... Poor darling

[John52]

Birdbrain - 2020-04-14 7:07 PM

 

 

Barry of course would much have preferred a terrorist loving anti-Semite to be in charge through the China Virus crisis ... All that time he spent campaigning for him and just to be dumped ... Poor darling

 

If you must keep bringing up the ex leader of the opposition to deflect attention away from the mess BoJo has made, at least tell us how Jeremy Corbyn could have done a worse job than BoJo.

[Guest pelmetman]

John52 - 2020-04-14 9:40 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-14 7:07 PM

 

 

Barry of course would much have preferred a terrorist loving anti-Semite to be in charge through the China Virus crisis ... All that time he spent campaigning for him and just to be dumped ... Poor darling

 

If you must keep bringing up the ex leader of the opposition to deflect attention away from the mess BoJo has made, at least tell us how Jeremy Corbyn could have done a worse job than BoJo.

 

Worse job? :-S ........

 

Would Corbyn not have relied on the same government expert that Boris has? :-| ........

 

 

[Barryd999]

pelmetman - 2020-04-14 9:52 PM

 

John52 - 2020-04-14 9:40 PM

 

Birdbrain - 2020-04-14 7:07 PM

 

 

Barry of course would much have preferred a terrorist loving anti-Semite to be in charge through the China Virus crisis ... All that time he spent campaigning for him and just to be dumped ... Poor darling

 

If you must keep bringing up the ex leader of the opposition to deflect attention away from the mess BoJo has made, at least tell us how Jeremy Corbyn could have done a worse job than BoJo.

 

Worse job? :-S ........

 

Would Corbyn not have relied on the same government expert that Boris has? :-| ........

 

 

Not really as it appears that we lost about 7 weeks where we could have procured vital life saving equipment and Johnson had President Cummings in his ear saying it would be ok to let a few thousand codgers die and them then farting about with the herd immunity scheme before crapping themselves and eventually locking down. They were told by Italy not to make the same mistakes they did. We were well ahead of the game but it appears we lost that advantage because of their dicking around. That is how it appears to have gone down. Corbyn has gone but perhaps if we had had some kind of government of national unity, an operating parliament and all the science and data made available to the opposition then things might have been different.

 

Now I am hearing that the death toll figures are totally incorrect and they could be a third higher than they have been publishing. Still though we have no real way of questioning the governments actions without being privy to the information they have. The opposition are out in the cold.