CliveH Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 Ah! That’s the beauty of GW ! When it gets hot - it’s GW When it is cooler than "normal" - it’s GW When it’s dry - it’s GW When it floods - it’s GW. A tornado in London? - Its GW (despite the UK being the tornado capital of the world apparently - we have had them for ages it seems. It’s a religion that knows no bounds. Whatever happens, it is down to that nastiest of all parasites on this good Earth! Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted March 21, 2007 Share Posted March 21, 2007 err - never actually mentioned 'war' or even 'War' Clive don't be so pedantic. hi Frank, been at the narky beer again ?? *-) B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 No "twooks" you actually said:- "bit optimistic there Clive, History is always written by the victors," I take it you don't mean the aeroplanes or the editors of the old comic so I assumed you meant "Victor" as in the context of:- "winner" "champion" "conqueror" "defeater" "vanquisher" (i.e. – Victor & Vanquished from a “war”) As for my being “pedantic” - seeing as one of the options in my thesaurus has it as being "nit-picking" I really do feel that that description is all yours my friend. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Frank Wilkinson - 2007-03-20 10:40 PMIt's almost April and I've just returned from a meeting. The temperature has dropped below zero and all of the roads have been gritted.It's a bugger this global warming!Why not move to Pembrokeshire then Frank?We've not even had a decent frost here this winter let alone any snow, yeah NO SNOW at all - good init?Not only but also Pembrokeshire has some of the lowest Council Tax rates in the UK.Even better init?Lovely beaches, good walks, and even one or two free car parks if you know where to look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chas Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 I have heard the people can be funny bug***s though ! LOL. chas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Now bear in mind that I am married to a Welsh lady! I still find the graffiti seen on the English side of the border when the nationalists were setting fire to holiday homes (remember? - "Come home to a real fire - buy a holiday cottage in Wales!") a laugh!! Rather rude tho' - so my apologies in advance and it certainly does not reflect my own views!!!!! ;-) This was seen on a railway bridge going into Wales from England "The Welsh are living proof that the Vikings ****ed sheep" :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twooks Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 CliveH - 2007-03-22 8:41 AM No "twooks" you actually said:- "bit optimistic there Clive, History is always written by the victors," I take it you don't mean the aeroplanes or the editors of the old comic so I assumed you meant "Victor" as in the context of:- "winner" "champion" "conqueror" "defeater" "vanquisher" (i.e. – Victor & Vanquished from a “war”) As for my being “pedantic” - seeing as one of the options in my thesaurus has it as being "nit-picking" I really do feel that that description is all yours my friend. (lol) err, no, not on this occasion, but if you wish to tune in to just one element of a description - so be it. life's too short to get into this *-) B-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Agreed! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 starspirit - 2007-03-22 11:21 AM Frank Wilkinson - 2007-03-20 10:40 PM It's almost April and I've just returned from a meeting. The temperature has dropped below zero and all of the roads have been gritted.It's a bugger this global warming! Why not move to Pembrokeshire then Frank? We've not even had a decent frost here this winter let alone any snow, yeah NO SNOW at all - good init? Not only but also Pembrokeshire has some of the lowest Council Tax rates in the UK. Even better init? Lovely beaches, good walks, and even one or two free car parks if you know where to look. That's very kind of you Richard. It sounds nice but we can't get over the biggest disadvantage, which is that you live there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 Well I reckon that settles it! Handbags at dawn it is!! We are off to Cornwall for a long w/e - have fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 That's very kind of you Richard. It sounds nice but we can't get over the biggest disadvantage, which is that you live there!Oh gosh Frank you old charmer what makes you think that you would be a problem for me?Such a kind thought, but there's plenty of space here for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 22, 2007 Share Posted March 22, 2007 This is worth a read:- http://www.spiked-online.com/index.php?/site/article/2999/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 24, 2007 Share Posted March 24, 2007 Thanks Clive. First balanced and informed commentary on the subject I've yet read. I'm not entitrely convinced the politocos are quite as schemingly devious as he suggests, though. I just think that, to quite a large extent, they've bought the hype that the extreme activists have brought to the table. However, I also think there is another agenda that, so to speak, "dare not speak its name". Most of the countries that need coal have some, or reasonable access to some. On the other hand, gas and oil are fairly readily available in the developed world, but are transmitted by ship and pipe, and I think that is the unsayable problem. Neither Russia, the middle east, nor most other areas of large known reserves, are reliable or politically stable sources of supply. Our own reserves have been largely squandered, unlike Norway's, for short term gain (both financial and political). America is a bit frightened to admit how much it now imports - there are still quite a large number of American's who believe their fuel comes from Texas!So, in the short term, blame GW for the supply mess and the shortsightedness, and set about reducing the amount of these fuels we use. Thatcher did this in a limited way to defeat the miners. Somewhere in the middle of the flack, as your piece says, there is that grain of truth that gives the fig-leaf of cover for the allegation GW is all a pack of lies.As I said way back above, this is all really about politics. There is some man made global warming, extent and implications not yet fully established, so it does make sense to rein in our consumption and not upset poor old Mother Nature too much. But far more urgent, and strategically significant, is to cut our umbilical links to all those unreliable, manipulative, and at times downright hostile, energy suppliers.Unless we want huge numbers of nuclear generators, that merely present other awkward environmental and security issues, we must aim to be more self reliant. That means sharp reductions in consumption, so that we can build reserves, and commensurate increases in renewables generation, so that our reserves will last that much longer if we have to fall back on them.That, to me, is why we should accept the strictures about reducing our reliance on these fuels, and I think these risks are actually far more "real and present" than the GW risks, serious as they may be. The problems is, international politics throws up problems almost overnight, whereas we all know that GW has a long, slow burning, fuse. Yes we should act, but in the name of our own security: not in the name of the GW extremists. Told ya, it's all politics really!! ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark lambert Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Hello Brian I have just been reading all the posts on global warming, I have been saying for a while that i didn't think it would make a difference to Gw if i wasn't greener, due to China and the like. After reading your posts i have now seen the light, you are so right. If what i do doesn't make a diference, who cares, atleast i have tried to do what is right by my children and by their children. When i saw your posting of this subject i thought it would be a very interesting read with some very inteligent responses, but as seems to be the norm recently, people go of topic and start messing about with the subject. I'm sorry that has happened, again! I wish i had something inteligent to add to the topic and could debate with you ,but alas, i have not been given the inteligent gene ( reading books doesn't help either, i forget what they say after finishing the page). Anyway, thank you for the posting, i enjoy reading your posts/replies and look forward to reading some more in the future. take care mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark lambert Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 oops! the last post was supposed to be a PM, pressed the wrong button. please,if you would, treat as a personal message to Brian and not use it for the argument or quote from it. i cant/wont debate on the post i have sent. It was meant as a PM to Brian sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Frank Wilkinson Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 Mmmmm. I for one am sorry that you've been conned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 mark lambert I am sorry that you feel people have gone 'off topic' on this thread Mark because as the originator of the thread I don't think that at all. On the contrary, had this been a live conversation the subject would probably have gone all around the houses and ended up well off topic. However, being online people have had a chance to read, reflect and research before answering and the vast majority of postings have been relevant. GW cannot be taken in isolation because the science and politics are so interwoven and the slimy tentacles of each do poke their way into unexpected areas such as defence, scientific and non scientific research, international development and trade, as well as the various purported climate change theories. I for one have found the subject expansion and the contradictory theories and views very interesting and I would like to thank everyone who has contributed (including yourself) to this good natured discussion. Long may it continue so do please carry on putting forward your own point of view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 25, 2007 Share Posted March 25, 2007 mark lambert - 2007-03-25 8:58 AM oops! the last post was supposed to be a PM, pressed the wrong button. please,if you would, treat as a personal message to Brian and not use it for the argument or quote from it. i cant/wont debate on the post i have sent. It was meant as a PM to Brian sorry I agree with Richard, who's post this really is, and don't think Mark was "off topic" at all. It is a discussion and, whereas I did think it was veering off into public versus private pensions, it has proved a very interestingly broad exchange of views. The biggest interest to me, has been the underlying motivations behind the views, and the stark message a number of contributors have flagged up for the future of our form of government. If we cease to have any confidence in our own government, and its advisors, how can we be governed? Not by consent, that's for sure! Don't misunderstand me, this is a bit more than saloon bar party political stuff.I think I'm hearing, both on here and elsewhere, a depth of cynicism about government I haven't encountered before. It seemed to start somewhere around BSE and Edwina's famous (and largely true) statement about the state of British Eggs, it is compounded by the new political orthodoxy that ministers aren't responsible for what goes wrong on their watch - ever, passes via WMD in Iraq, skirts GW and why it has suddenly leapt so high up the international agenda, it manages an appearance whenever Iraq is mentioned - why did we get involved, why was there such a rush, whose was the agenda, and how it can remotely be claimed to be a success when visibly the country is viscerally corrupt and slipping inexorably towards partition along religious/ethnic lines. Oh, and I forgot Afgahnistan! Sorry, most of that is "off topic" by quite a bit too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mom Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 G'day all! I have been away from the forum for a few weeks and have only lightly browsed all the comments above. I just wanted to throw something into the mix, and I apologise in advance if it has already been said (and I missed it).Global warming is just one manifestation of the activity of man. Whether or not current activities will lead to "Global Warming Disaster" is the current debate. Who remembers back to their physics days? Those old discussions on velocity vs acceleration? The peoples of the world (that's you and I), aren't impacting the world at a constant rate. We are accelerating. Every minute, every day, every year. We dig more up, burn more, throw away more. Everything is more. I know that there are attempts to slow and reverse some of this, like recycling, biofuels etc. But these are imperfect and incomplete measures, and bring their own hazards. We all drive more, fly more, eat more, burn more, buy more. More today and even more tomorrow.Whether or not the current so-called GW crisis is real, the real question is "do we really believe that the uncontrolled continual acceleration of human pollution and negative environmental impact is sustainable?" Do we really believe this? Do we really think we can go on like this, accelerating like this, till the end of time? If the answer is no, then the question needs to be very simply changed to "which generation would we all like to choose, to clean up our mess and reverse our 'wisdom' "?The current GW crisis could be the best thing that has ever happened. At a minimum it is a global wake-up call. These don't come along very often. Politically motivated or not, there should not be a single developed or developing nation on the planet that has not heard.Governments, current and would-be, will of course milk this for all its worth. Like speed cameras, we'll shout and scream and hand over our money, but at least the desired effect will be achieved (if only within a 100 metres of the camera!!). But what I want to know is - how can I adjust my lifestyle so that I can do significantly less damage to the world, and thus look my descendants in the eye and say "I'm sorry. Once I realised, I tried to fix it"? I am a believer in getting ones own house in order before commenting on others. So my other half and I have been on a campaign to reverse some of our bad habits. Perhaps we need a thread on environment friendly tips and tricks while 'vanning? I shall start one up and see where it gets us? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Welcome back, Michael!An excellent idea, but why restrict it to 'vanning? Most of us do more damage via our homes than via our vans. Leave it broad, and see where it runs. Can't do any harm, can it?One factor I think you missed, is that part of the reason for the accelleration is that we breed more as well! If we really want to stabilise our consumption, but at the same time accommodate a rising population, I think we'll have a virtually insurmountable challenge, instead of just a very difficult one. One should never, of course, speak of the impossible, any more than one should mention problems! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 To add to the above, Gordon in his previous budget increased the passenger airline tax. Now we have an open skies agreement that (at last!) destroys the cosy cartel of the "selected" 4 carriers that were allowed to fly the Atlantic. But this is reckoned to reduce costs and thereby increase passenger numbers! Now I am not complaining as I think this cartel was well overdue for the chop - but the result will be more people flying. We have replaced most of our light bulbs with the new style low energy ones, and my tow vehicle runs on LPG (The conversion cost was £2000 but I am lucky in that as I run my own business I can offset that against tax), so I do believe we should all do something to reduce our impact. "Mom" above puts it so well. However, on a larger scale, zealots like Stern (author of the Stern Report on this Governments policy on Global warming) and idiot journalists like Monbiot would have us believe that the only way to "survive" is to wind down our economies and stop other economies from developing. Thankfully, common sense seems to prevail and these numpties are now seen for what they are. In contrast to the Luddite thinking of the Anti- this & Anti That brigade, modern technology is forging ahead with new energy sources and "widgets" to make existing energy use cleaner. All scenarios that are ignored by the Doom-mongers. On a personal front - what really gets on my nerves is the religious zeal of those absolutely convinced that I am a "Climate Criminal" because I drive a 4x4! Numpty science is rammed down our throats (which does not stand up to scrutiny) they used American data for US vehicles not available over here and quoted only petrol not diesel versions of those that were! On top of that, a US gallon is smaller than an imperial gallon so the data was not comparable anyway!!! But they still shouted their lies loud enough that the BBC, ITV etc all quote "Gas Guzzling 4x4's" when the most popular 4x4's such as the diesel Honda CRV and TD4 Freelander have fuel economy on a par with a 2L petrol Mondeo!. In fact the Escort ST (A sporty hatch) has CO2 of 224 g/km, whereas the CRV and the Freelander are 198 g/Km and 202 g/Km respectively. My take on all this???? Basic - VERY BASIC! People lie To get what they want - people will lie and cheat and manipulate the truth. With Gordon Brown - it is to raise more tax, With Tony Blair - it was to justify and invasion. My advice? Stop voting for the big parties - Choose a good independent and vote for them. Even a vote for the Monster Raving Loony Party, seems positively sensible in view of the options available to us right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Just to throw a spanner into the discussion, did anybody see the programme last night on Ch5 about sunspot activity? Apparently there's a high chance that in the not too distant future we could all be wiped out by a huge sunspot bursting forth in what was referred to as a CME (Corronal Mass Ejection) which will send out a mass of similar proportions to Venus of burning gas which will firstly knock all our satellites out of the sky before wiping out all our power generation systems, plunging us into darkness and confusion! I confess to not watching it all as it became depressing viewing, being American and made in the style of a typical disaster movie (armaggedon, Deep Impact etc) D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CliveH Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Hi Dave No I didn't catch this program but will watch out for a repeat. The increase in sunspot activity has been noted by many and these guys tend to believe that it is this sunspot activity that is driving the current warming more than the CO2 emmissions we all produce. They quote the fact that the Polar Ice on Mars is melting (Ref NASA) and make the obvious point that we (Man) have hardly got there yet! But sadly the vehicles that have been sent are all 4x4's so I suspect it's our fault. (lol) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Newell Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 CliveH, personally I wouldn't bother watching it. Its poorly made, technically incorrect (picture a satellite hurtling to Earth at 18,000 MPH and impacting into soft ground (as portrayed) when the smoke clears there is a comms satellite that looks like it fell 4 feet not 36,000 miles!) and typically American trash TV. All that kind of spoiled any real warning they were trying to get across for me. D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest starspirit Posted March 27, 2007 Share Posted March 27, 2007 Oh Dave that's a bit sad and there I was hoping for some more genuine paranoia to laugh at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.