Battery on hook up

[Barcobird]

Just reading a recent thread about not using your vehicle while Corona virus is around I thought about the batteries. Is it detrimental to leave the motorhome on permanent hook up or should it be disconnected occasionally to make the batteries work on their own ?

[Keithl]

Peter,

 

I charge both my leisure and starter batteries for 24 - 48 hours once a month with a CTEK charger when we do not use our MH and find this adequate.

 

Here is the late Allan Evans view on charging... http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ehu-full-time-yes-or-no.php

 

Keith.

[Brian Kirby]

Barcobird - 2020-04-26 8:31 AM

 

Just reading a recent thread about not using your vehicle while Corona virus is around I thought about the batteries. Is it detrimental to leave the motorhome on permanent hook up or should it be disconnected occasionally to make the batteries work on their own ?

Unless you know what charging regime your on-board charger employs, and how well the charger matches the charging requirements of the installed batteries, it would be wisest, IMO, to disconnect the mains input and only reinstate it after, say, one month, and then for 24 hours only. Using a programmable time clock to switch the EHU on and off would probably be best (avoids forgetfulness! :-)) - if you can find one of appropriate type.

 

Bear in mind that with the van laid up the habitation battery should not have any load attached to it (which requires checking that all control panels etc. are turned off, and that the fridge is also fully turned off), but will still be subject to self-discharge over time. If zero load cannot be achieved, the battery state will need monitoring with the EHU off to establish how quickly it discharges over time, and the EHU connection/disconnection times adjusted accordingly.

 

Also bear in mind that the starter battery is continually discharged by the base vehicle's electronics, but is likely only to receive a "maintenance charge" from the on-board charger that will be insufficient to deal with a deeply discharged battery.

 

If a solar panel is installed I assume that either use of the EHU would automatically take the solar out of use, or that EHU would not be connected, so as to avoid two separate systems trying to charge the same battery/ies in differing ways. Some OEM installations may be "safe" to use in conjunction, but others, especially after-market fitted ones, will require careful reading of the manuals to avoid battery damage by over-charging - especially the habitation battery.

 

I'll be interested to read what others say. :-D

[Barcobird]

Sorry, one important fact I should have mentioned *-) we live in it full time

[Keithl]

Barcobird - 2020-04-26 9:11 AM

 

Sorry, one important fact I should have mentioned *-) we live in it full time

 

That changes the question considerably!

 

What chemistry and style are your batteries? ie FLA or AGM, sealed for life or removable caps, etc, etc.

 

Some batteries do not like being on permanent charge whilst others tolerate it far better.

 

Keith.

[Barcobird]

Two of these ;

 

12v Exide 100ah ET650 semi traction leisure battery

 

One of the best traditional wet lead acid batteries on the market. Ideal for Caravans. Boats and Motorhomes where only wet lead acid chargers are fitted. In this group size of battery box the ET650 gives the best performance in terms of life cycles and longevity.

 

650- watt-hours of power

 

EQUIPMENT battery range is designed to supply power for boats, caravans and motorhomes with dedicated battery banks for equipment such as navigation, emergency, safety and comfort (cases C&D). The batteries are partially or even deeply discharged during use. This means that the EQUIPMENT’s special design, together with a good recharging procedure, is the key to providing the most reliable result and service life duration. EQUIPMENT range, with Wh* performance from 290Wh to 2400Wh, is the choice to cover all equipment supply needs, from small electronics to emergency power

 

Technology: Standard flooded with glass mat separators and plug venting

 

Low maintenance › Slight inclination › Medium vibration & tilt resistant › Superior cycling - 360 cycles at 50% Depth of discharge.

 

 

[Keithl]

So they are NOT maintenance free!

 

From Alpha batteries website "Maintenance Free No"

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/

 

Keeping them permanently on charge will mean you will have to check the electrolyte level far more frequently that if not, possibly once a month until you get a feel for water usage.

 

Keith

[Barcobird]

Keithl - 2020-04-26 11:18 AM

 

So they are NOT maintenance free!

 

From Alpha batteries website "Maintenance Free No"

 

https://www.alpha-batteries.co.uk/12v-100ah-exide-et650-leisure-battery-ncc-class-a/

 

Keeping them permanently on charge will mean you will have to check the electrolyte level far more frequently that if not, possibly once a month until you get a feel for water usage.

 

Keith

 

With due respect Keith, I didn't ask if they were maintenance free I already knew that. It was a case of is it detrimental continually charging them ?

 

Peter

[Keithl]

Barcobird - 2020-04-26 11:24 AM

 

With due respect Keith, I didn't ask if they were maintenance free I already knew that. It was a case of is it detrimental continually charging them ?

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

My answer was meant to read that the only detriment I know of from being on continual charge was increased water usage and hence increased inspection timing.

 

Keith.

[Barcobird]

Keithl - 2020-04-26 11:28 AM

 

Barcobird - 2020-04-26 11:24 AM

 

With due respect Keith, I didn't ask if they were maintenance free I already knew that. It was a case of is it detrimental continually charging them ?

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

My answer was meant to read that the only detriment I know of from being on continual charge was increased water usage and hence increased inspection timing.

 

 

Keith.

 

Ahhh with you now, Thanks Keith.

 

I have come up with a solution as we are not going anywhere. I've removed the two new batteries and put the old one back on which was fine for a couple of days wild camping

(lol)

 

Peter

[jumpstart]

Presumably if the control panel is not switched on then the leisure battery isn’t being used. So if the vehicle is plugged into EHU but the panel isn’t on then is the battery still being charged?

[Barcobird]

jumpstart - 2020-04-26 4:02 PM

 

Presumably if the control panel is not switched on then the leisure battery isn’t being used. So if the vehicle is plugged into EHU but the panel isn’t on then is the battery still being charged?

 

I might be wrong but because the control panel is after the charger I think regardless of whether its on or off the battery will always be charged.

[Brian Kirby]

Barcobird - 2020-04-26 9:11 AM

 

Sorry, one important fact I should have mentioned *-) we live in it full time

Now I'm puzzled!! (Not difficult! :-)) If living in the van full time, do you not use mains electricity through the usual power sockets? Obviously, were the EHU is disconnected, you'd lose that functionality as well as that of the battery charger.

 

OTOH, all your 12V functionality (internal lights, fridge control panel, main control panel, possibly audio, possibly TV, water pump, etc.) is coming from your batteries and, with most "intelligent" chargers the outputs to the leisure battery will be varied according to the rate of consumption - which is how the 12V system is designed to be used when in occupation. If that is correct, unless anyone knows better, I think your use is normal and you don't need to change anything.

 

What I thought you were speaking of was the situation when a van is laid up (as is now the case throughout most of Europe due to the various Covid lock-downs), when no power would be being drawn from the leisure battery but, where a live EHU would (with one exception that I am aware of) nevertheless result in a continuous trickle charge to the battery, possibly resulting in the batter being over-charged.

[Barcobird]

Brian Kirby - 2020-04-26 6:51 PM

 

Barcobird - 2020-04-26 9:11 AM

 

Sorry, one important fact I should have mentioned *-) we live in it full time

Now I'm puzzled!! (Not difficult! :-)) If living in the van full time, do you not use mains electricity through the usual power sockets? Obviously, were the EHU is disconnected, you'd lose that functionality as well as that of the battery charger.

 

OTOH, all your 12V functionality (internal lights, fridge control panel, main control panel, possibly audio, possibly TV, water pump, etc.) is coming from your batteries and, with most "intelligent" chargers the outputs to the leisure battery will be varied according to the rate of consumption - which is how the 12V system is designed to be used when in occupation. If that is correct, unless anyone knows better, I think your use is normal and you don't need to change anything.

 

What I thought you were speaking of was the situation when a van is laid up (as is now the case throughout most of Europe due to the various Covid lock-downs), when no power would be being drawn from the leisure battery but, where a live EHU would (with one exception that I am aware of) nevertheless result in a continuous trickle charge to the battery, possibly resulting in the batter being over-charged.

 

Its an age thing Brian (lol)

Yes we are using continual mains power but sneak off occasionally to fill up with gas (gaslow system) however we are drawing power from the battery with things like lighting.

Peter

[steve hill]

Not sure if the onboard mains charger only runs at a constant 14.7v ish and not regulated, if so yes I would be worried. But, lots of vans have solar panels that are running constantly, some multiple panels, they are regulated so should never really overcharge the batterries, and no one seems to worry about those, when left on even in hot countries and not used?

[Derek Uzzell]

Allan Evans caveats on ‘long term’ connection to a 230V hook-up were predicated on a) the motorhome being unattanded, b) the habitation battery being fully charged with no load being placed on it and c) the charging equipment being unsuitable.

 

Peter’s Pilote motorhome is not unattended, its habitation batteries are being used to provide 12V power (lighting, etc.) and the charger (Schaudt) should regulate its output according to the batteries’ charge-state.

 

Peter’s current usage is really little different to a motorcaravanner over-wintering on a campite in Spain, connecting to a 230V EHU on arrival, popping out to the shops occasionally, reconnecting to the EHU on return and then driving back to the UK after a multi-week Spanish sojourn.

 

Provided that the Pilote’s charger is operating properly, I can’t see any benefit in deliberately turning off the EHU repeatedly for an unspecified period (or turning off the charger) to somehow ‘exercise’ the habitation batteries.

 

If a motorhome were not being used at all (like my Rapido currently is), charging the batteries every now and again might make some sense. But as Peter’s Pilote is being lived in, it might as well stay hooked up with its battery-charger running.

[ageingandrew]

Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-27 9:13 AM

 

Allan Evans caveats on ‘long term’ connection to a 230V hook-up were predicated on a) the motorhome being unattanded, b) the habitation battery being fully charged with no load being placed on it and c) the charging equipment being unsuitable.

 

 

In other words don't use a charger unless it is a multi-stage charger, properly configured and in working order.

 

I looked at the link to http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ehu-full-time-yes-or-no.php that was quoted earlier in the thread and I have to say that the contents of the page is selective quotes from other sites, taken out of all context, together with misleading and poorly researched opinion.

 

I don't mean to offend anyone on here but the aandn site is not one of the best. There are numerous web sites with good, objective, unbiased and well researched information on van/mobile electrics, such as Yuasa, Victron, batteryUniversity, 12voltPlanet and many more. I would not recommend that anyone seeking information about van/motorhome electrics be directed to aandn.

 

Andrew

 

 

[Barcobird]

ageingandrew - 2020-04-27 6:57 PM

 

Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-27 9:13 AM

 

Allan Evans caveats on ‘long term’ connection to a 230V hook-up were predicated on a) the motorhome being unattanded, b) the habitation battery being fully charged with no load being placed on it and c) the charging equipment being unsuitable.

 

 

In other words don't use a charger unless it is a multi-stage charger, properly configured and in working order.

 

I looked at the link to http://www.aandncaravanservices.co.uk/ehu-full-time-yes-or-no.php that was quoted earlier in the thread and I have to say that the contents of the page is selective quotes from other sites, taken out of all context, together with misleading and poorly researched opinion.

 

I don't mean to offend anyone on here but the aandn site is not one of the best. There are numerous web sites with good, objective, unbiased and well researched information on van/mobile electrics, such as Yuasa, Victron, batteryUniversity, 12voltPlanet and many more. I would not recommend that anyone seeking information about van/motorhome electrics be directed to aandn.

 

Andrew

 

 

Everyone to their own opinion I guess but from the dealings I had with Allan he was always helpful and informative and gave everything to his company and clients right to the last.