PCC Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 There is a current trend for putting elevating roofs on high top vans so how about looking for a two birth medium wheelbase Ducato, Boxer or Relay and getting a converter to put a roof on top? SCA in Germany make the roofs and there may be some other suppliers too. It will be quite a tight fit for 4 but something like an Autocruise Jazz might fit the bill although some thought may need to be given to rooflights. No idea how much it would cost! Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 spirou - 2020-04-27 7:07 PM I think Pössl does one on the smaller van by Citroen/Peugeot (I never remember the model name)... You are probably thinking of the “Vario 545” model from Possl/Globecar. In the UK it was marketed as a Globecar on a RHD Fiat Ducato base and there’s a 2013 Which Motorhome magazine review here https://www.outandaboutlive.co.uk/motorhomes/reviews/motorhomes/details/globecar-vario-545-motorhome-review/899678 Probably as good as one could get for 4 adult-size people in a 5.41m-long high-top panel-van conversion with a bathroom/shower, but coming across a RHD one for sale in the UK would take a lot of luck and I suspect the asking-price would exceed JB’s £25K budget. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tracker Posted April 28, 2020 Share Posted April 28, 2020 Autosleepers Talisman / Executives on an X244 Peugeot Boxer chassis are about 5.6 mtrs long and are very well made and durable as well as being able to sleep four. Is that too long? Most have a built in roof rack and ladder for extra carrying capacity - like wet tents! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybeare Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 I did have a look at the Talisman, but despite being a 4 berth there are only 3 seat belts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Mornin' JB.. Another possibly daft question- How do you envisage using this van, how often (and for how long each time)? If you're thinking of touring for weeks at time (during the school summer holidays), maybe abroad, and maybe moving on every few days, then something quite small that entails you putting up awnings and/or tents will become a pain in the backside.. If on the other hand, it's just for the occasional week long holiday, with some additional "impromptu" long weekends, then a short-ish, van conversion(as I linked to above) "may" possibly do you? But do be aware, that by the time you have loaded an awning/ tent(s), sleeping bags/pillows, camp-beds,camping chairs/table(s),4 sets of clothing, 4 lots of footwear(that will get muddy!), 4 lots of coats(that will get wet!). etc etc, you do run the risk of having a van with "facilities" that are pretty much unusable until everything is disgorged on 'site.. :-D ( we have festival friends, some of which run quite swanky VW conversions...but the things are rammed to the gunnels, when they first roll up on 'site). ..and at some point, (usually whilst wrestling with a awning/ tent in the wind/rain) you will ask yourself ".. why have we spent XX 1000s on a ******* motorhome, only to end up putting a ****** tent up!?..." (lol) ) £20-25000 could get a decent sized,over-cab "family van"(possibly with bunk beds)? Obviously that wouldn't be as versatile(or as "cool"?) as a small van conversion,but until I'd explored the availability/cost of storage, I wouldn't fully rule one out..? It all depends on what you actually "want"? (but want we "want", is not always the same as what we "need") Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybeare Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 Definitely just a week at a time, and the odd long weekend, plus the odd festival. We used to have a Mazda Bongo w/pop-top, was great in some ways but had pretty much zero storage and came with all the problems you mentioned, putting kit away and getting it out, wet clothes/shoes, having to take a tent to store things in, etc, etc. You're right, I definitely don't want to get something too small and regret it, but compared to a Bongo just the thought of having some cupboards and a toilet seems like total luxury! Another issue regarding size is that some friends have campervans and we'd like to camp with them sometimes, we can get away with that with a very small MH or large camper but probably not with a larger MH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 jonnybeare - 2020-04-29 10:00 AM I did have a look at the Talisman, but despite being a 4 berth there are only 3 seat belts. Other ‘shorties’ are the Dethleffs A5251, Hymer Camp C494 and Knaus Sport Traveller 500. I’m not sure if the A5251 made it to the UK in RHD fornat, but the latter two certainly did http://www.motorlands.co.uk/used-motorhome/hymer/camp-c494/fiat-ducato-2-0-jtd/for-sale-in-lytham-st-annes-lancashire/aetv14645540/ https://www.motorhomedepot.com/vehicle/knaus-sport-traveller-4-berth-end-washroom-compact-motorhome-for-sale All are ‘conventional’ overcab designs but, unlike many UK-built models, the overcab sleeping area is not so small that only young children could tolerate being there. (Trouble is that - once you’ve set your heart on a Wingamm Micros - everything else will be second best.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybeare Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 Weirdly I was cycling about half a mile from my house and saw a 2008 Wingamm Micros in someone's drive behind a hedge, only just noticed it, so I've put a note in their letterbox... you never know! I'm just amazed to see one in the flesh really. Failing finding one of those for sale (very unlikely), and in budget (fairly unlikely) I think of all the suggestions the Hymer Exsis SG looks pretty much exactly what we need. I think I'll try to find one to have a look around when the corona chaos is over. Thanks for all your help :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 jonnybeare - 2020-04-29 2:56 PM................................I think of all the suggestions the Hymer Exsis SG looks pretty much exactly what we need. I think I'll try to find one to have a look around when the corona chaos is over. Thanks for all your help :) One for sale here: https://tinyurl.com/ydynd5mj Ledbury. Looks good on paper (but then it is being advertised for sale! :-)), and a fair price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SAlexander Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 I can remember considering the Hymer a few years ago when looking for a replacement for my Mazda Bongo. I thought it was a fabulous layout with some really clever ideas for storage and space utilisation. I was put off slightly by the high prices for what were generally older, high mileage vans and limited availabilty. I also wasn't keen on the short habitation door as both myself and wife are tall. But never the less, a fascinating and desirable van in many ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 29, 2020 Share Posted April 29, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-04-29 5:13 PM jonnybeare - 2020-04-29 2:56 PM................................I think of all the suggestions the Hymer Exsis SG looks pretty much exactly what we need. I think I'll try to find one to have a look around when the corona chaos is over. Thanks for all your help :) One for sale here: https://tinyurl.com/ydynd5mj Ledbury. Looks good on paper (but then it is being advertised for sale! :-)), and a fair price. Two snags with the Exsis at Ledbury - it’s LHD and JB wants RHD, and it’s the SK version with three sleeping berths and JB needs four. There’s a 2006 model-year Hymer Exsis brochure here https://www.exsisowners.com/downloads/2006_Exsis_Brochure.pdf and the SK and SG layouts are shown on Page 21. My Rapido 640F has a somewhat similar front-lounge layout to an Exsis SK, with two inwards facing settees, each of which (with a lot of fiddling about) can be converted into a forwards-facing 3-point-belted travel seat. In principle the 640F can carry 4 adults while travelling and, as the settees can be converted into a transverse single bed, it can sleep 3 adults. But I think the 640F would almost always have been bought by couples that would sleep in the rear island double bed. (Rapido produced a 640B version that added a ceiling-located drop-down single bed (so 4 travel seats and 4 berths) but as that model was soon dropped I imagine it proved unpopular.) Few buyers will need to cram 4 people into a motorhome under 5.5m lomg, so - even though the Exsis SK will be uncommon in the UK - the SG version will be very rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybeare Posted April 29, 2020 Author Share Posted April 29, 2020 Yes that's right, has to be the SG version due to the two double beds + 4 seatbelts. They do seem to come up occasionally, I'm in no hurry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 I think the Concorde Compact would be a good choice. Built on a medium wheelbase Citroen x250. Drop down cab bed which is huge and double bed below. Concorde quality too. I've seen 2009 ones for about £25000. Don't come on the market often though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 There’s an advert for a 2006-registered Concorde Compact here https://www.somersetmotorhomecentre.co.uk/showroom/van-conversion/concorde-compact/ Although it is advertised as a “great 4 birth van” (sic) the downstairs bed constructed from the dinette seating is quite narrow. OK for one adult or two small children, but JB has said his requirements are for "2 adults and an 11 and 13 year old but one of them is as tall as me already so 4 adults really”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 Blimey..is that shelf in the roof, really a bed?...storage for bedding, coats etc maybe... Whilst there are undoubtedly some ingenious designs, and well executed conversions around, until such time as they start constructing them from magic, they are all still going to be lacking in sq footage and general "elbow room", when they are expected accommodate 4 adult sized people.... :-S (I couldn't imagine many teens would really want to be bunking up alongside/above/below M&D's bed for long, especially in such a tight space..). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cid Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 hi all, i own a granduca on a fiat chassis. 6 berth, 5.6m long. sleeps 2 over cab, 2 in mid section and 2 on a rear bench and single bunk. although, in very good condition and used daily, as i have no other vehicle, it was first registered in 1996. only done 77,000 miles. interested? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trialsrider Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 pepe63 - 2020-04-30 2:56 PM Blimey..is that shelf in the roof, really a bed?...storage for bedding, coats etc maybe... Whilst there are undoubtedly some ingenious designs, and well executed conversions around, until such time as they start constructing them from magic, they are all still going to be lacking in sq footage and general "elbow room", when they are expected accommodate 4 adult sized people.... :-S (I couldn't imagine many teens would really want to be bunking up alongside/above/below M&D's bed for long, especially in such a tight space..). It must be the type / location of campsites I go to but most are full of vw T5 vans with pop tops sleeping families of 4. The bigger vans seem to be the choice of child free 60 plus year olds. Just my observation of course. Perhaps due to having a young son, we go to family campsites where young kids are more prevalent. The van shown in the advert is a 2006 van. The x250 model is much better.. I'm 6ft 4 and the drop down bed is massive. I've laid on it. Unlike most a class vans the drop down bed is not transverse in nature and is 200cm long. I think it's an amazing van from a world class constructor. I would buy one myself if it was not for me needing a garage in the van. The westfalia James Scott is another pvc with this type of configuration but on a Merc chassis. Both beds on this one are big. Westfalia nugget is similar but on a transit base. Again, very rare in the UK. Take a peek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pepe63xnotuse Posted April 30, 2020 Share Posted April 30, 2020 The majority of our camping(be it tent or previous van conversions & MHs, or our current DIY "festival-camping-van")has been on Music festival sites (and festival-based group gatherings on basic campsites). Being honest apart from maybe when their children were very young, I can't picture anyone of us, or those around us, routinely sleeping 4 adults in a VW sized vehicle? Of cause it's possible..and don't get me wrong the likes of that Concord is a lovely bit of kit (and the prevision to sleep 4 if need be, would be of benefit) but almost everyone we know and/or see, end up putting up an awning of sorts or an additional little tent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybeare Posted April 30, 2020 Author Share Posted April 30, 2020 Derek Uzzell - 2020-04-30 2:37 PM There’s an advert for a 2006-registered Concorde Compact here https://www.somersetmotorhomecentre.co.uk/showroom/van-conversion/concorde-compact/ I saw that Concorde Compact, but looking at the dimensions 5.41 x 2.06 x 2.98 it's almost the same as the Exsis, however the Exsis looks bigger inside (from photos at least). Also the Exsis SG has a better lounge layout imo, with both front seats swivelling to make a larger area and more seating, the second bed is also bigger in the Exsis. One advantage of the Concorde is that you can get it on the newer Fiat (2007 onwards), whereas the Exsis you're stuck with the older model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 This Practical Motorhome review of a 2010 Concorde Compact https://www.practicalmotorhome.com/reviews/motorhome/30023-concorde-compact indicates that the narrow ‘double bed’ of the pre-X250 version has shrunk to 78cm width (31inches) and is described in the article as a "sizeable single bed (194cm x 78cm) which is made up out of the dinette”. If the selection criteria you specified in your original posting - "I'm looking for a motorhome, needs to be under 5.5m (due to driveway), sleep 4 and include a washroom/shower, up to about £25k” - are ALL ‘must haves’ I believe you’ll need to accept that short panel-van-conversion models are a non-starter as they will be just too narrow. Even if you move the goal-posts by dropping the washroom/shower requirement, squeezing 2 adults and 2 sizeable children into such a small vehicle for a week would be verging on the masochistic. The 5.5m maximum length is the main stumbling block - you really need a longer motorhome - and pepe63’s earlier suggestion to keep the vehicle in local storage seems to be the only realistic solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RubyExsis Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 Hello Jonnybearde, I started a longer reply but lost it all, perhaps timed out as I thought about it ? You have observed the downstairs attributes of the Exsis SG correctly. The huge upper bed can be stowed completely made up with bedding and still leaves room in the formed front locker for most of the downstairs bedding. The dinette(only battery/ electrics inside) and side bunks are all storage - no water tank/heater as most modern vans. The en-suite rear bathroom has a large wardrobe which rivals most 6m vans. WE have used the van with 4 adults in summer (site with facilities and EHU) several time quite comfortably and even 3 or 4 for a night or two in winter. If you chose a small van you will not be disappointed with the space and facilities that the Exsis Sg affords in that size of van. There is also much support on our website, which is another benefit for older vehicles https://www.exsisowners.com/ The X244 base vehicle was all sorted by that era and has been very reliable. The perhaps more refined early X250 base vehicle had many well reported teething problems.... not Fiats proudest moment. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybeare Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 Thanks Fred, have you had many problems with yours over the years, e.g. rust, or anything major needing replacing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Uzzell Posted May 1, 2020 Share Posted May 1, 2020 The Exsis Owners website is a mine of informarion relating to these Hymer models, particularly the “Little Exsis Book” that runs to 751 pages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonnybeare Posted May 1, 2020 Author Share Posted May 1, 2020 That's an incredible resource, quite overwhelming at 996 pages when I just downloaded! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MagHal Posted May 2, 2020 Share Posted May 2, 2020 Autoquest Avantgarde 100 and 200 both come in under 5.5m. Overhead cab sleeping for kids and a user payload ~450kgms Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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