Guest pelmetman Posted May 4, 2020 Share Posted May 4, 2020 Come on Statler/Bullet lets have a snappy response? >:-) ......... You are supposed to heckle me after all :D ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-04 7:13 PM..........................You gave Greece as an example because they were lucky ;-) ...... You didn't give Belgium as an example because they weren't lucky :-| ...... BTW you only have another 57 days to soldier on :D ....... Where did luck come in? Greece took decisive action early, which resulted in a low spread of the infection. Greece 0.02% and falling of their population infected, based on the figures you have been using. UK 0.24% and rising of its population infected. Who is doing best? As to Belgium, what you don't seem to understand is the Belgium is responsible for its own health policy and government, just as is the UK. The fact that the EU is mostly headquartered in Brussels has no relevance, because the EU does not run Belgium's health service or its Covid-19 responses. Belgium wasn't unlucky (except perhaps in its choice of government, it was just slow to act, and added into its number of dead from Covid all who died in care homes, whether or not diagnosed as Covid victims. The UK initially did the opposite, and left them all out. Apples compared with pomegranates seized on as a comfort blanket - again! But I'm glad you're so happy in wonderland, Dave. Stay away from reality as long as possible, won't you? :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:18 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-04 7:13 PM..........................You gave Greece as an example because they were lucky ;-) ...... You didn't give Belgium as an example because they weren't lucky :-| ...... BTW you only have another 57 days to soldier on :D ....... Where did luck come in? Greece took decisive action early, which resulted in a low spread of the infection. Greece 0.02% and falling of their population infected, based on the figures you have been using. UK 0.24% and rising of its population infected. Who is doing best? Seeing as the EU's capitol Belgium is currently top of the WORLDS mortality rate list 8-) ......... I would say the Boris is doing as good a job as can be expected under the circumstances :-| ....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-05 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:18 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-04 7:13 PM..........................You gave Greece as an example because they were lucky ;-) ...... You didn't give Belgium as an example because they weren't lucky :-| ...... BTW you only have another 57 days to soldier on :D ....... Where did luck come in? Greece took decisive action early, which resulted in a low spread of the infection. Greece 0.02% and falling of their population infected, based on the figures you have been using. UK 0.24% and rising of its population infected. Who is doing best? Seeing as the EU's capitol Belgium is currently top of the WORLDS mortality rate list 8-) ......... I would say the Boris is doing as good a job as can be expected under the circumstances :-| ....... There you go again, rushing in before you've got your head on the right way round! Answer above. Belgium is not the capital of the EU, and nor is Brussels. Brussels is the capital of Belgium: the EU has no capital city - it merely has a city in which most of its head office functions are located. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:32 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-05 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:18 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-04 7:13 PM..........................You gave Greece as an example because they were lucky ;-) ...... You didn't give Belgium as an example because they weren't lucky :-| ...... BTW you only have another 57 days to soldier on :D ....... Where did luck come in? Greece took decisive action early, which resulted in a low spread of the infection. Greece 0.02% and falling of their population infected, based on the figures you have been using. UK 0.24% and rising of its population infected. Who is doing best? Seeing as the EU's capitol Belgium is currently top of the WORLDS mortality rate list 8-) ......... I would say the Boris is doing as good a job as can be expected under the circumstances :-| ....... There you go again, rushing in before you've got your head on the right way round! Answer above. Belgium is not the capital of the EU, and nor is Brussels. Brussels is the capital of Belgium: the EU has no capital city - it merely has a city in which most of its head office functions are located. Knit picking *-) ......... Brussels is generally considered to be the headquarters of the EU......ie Capitol ;-) ..... You'd have thought your "wonderful EU" would've been able to protect their headquarters better wouldn't you? 8-) ......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 teflon2 - 2020-05-04 8:14 PM...……………... By your own post Brian Greece enforced lockdown on 22nd March the UK enforced lockdown on 23nd March one day later. Both governments had advised their populations prior to those dates to avoid close contact with each-other the Greek people were sensible and did so some of our idiotic population treated it like a holiday. Snipped to avoid the long string of repeated quotes, but have a look at this from the Independent: https://tinyurl.com/ufrdpmq because the timeline is not as concise as you imply. You will note that the Greek government, "following the confirmation of the first three cases in Greece, on 27 February all carnival events in the country were cancelled. Health and state authorities issued precautionary guidelines and recommendations, while measures up to early March were taken locally and included the closure of schools and the suspension of cultural events in the affected areas (particularly Ilia, Achaea and Zakynthos). On 10 March, with 89 confirmed cases and no deaths in the country, the government decided to suspend the operation of educational institutions of all levels nationwide and then, on 13 March, to close down all cafes, bars, museums, shopping centres, sports facilities and restaurants in the country. On 16 March, all retail shops were also closed, two villages in Kozani were quarantined, and all services in all areas of religious worship of any religion or dogma were suspended". Comparing that to the timeline set out in the Independent, of how the UK government responded in fits and starts, gives the clue to why we now have so many more cases per 100,000 of population. The UK "lockdown" did not in truth, arrive until 20 March, when the government ordered "all pubs, restaurants, gyms and other social venues across the country to close their doors for the foreseeable future", despite the fact that the UK was running behind other neighbouring countries so should have had an advantage in responding. We started off well, but then, for reasons still unclear, seemed to drop the ball, and the rate of infection began to explode, just as we were watching it doing two weeks earlier elsewhere. That is the reason I am dissatisfied with the government response. They had ample examples to emulate, but were half-hearted in doing so, as a consequence of which, we have far many more cases than need have been. I hesitate to say this, but had the PM followed his own advice, and observed the measures he was recommending for others, he should have remained virus free. Instead, he bragged of, and appeared on TV, shaking hands when visiting hospitals. So even he was openly giving a counter message on how seriously to take his advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 5, 2020 Share Posted May 5, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-05 9:40 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:32 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-05 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:18 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-04 7:13 PM..........................You gave Greece as an example because they were lucky ;-) ...... You didn't give Belgium as an example because they weren't lucky :-| ...... BTW you only have another 57 days to soldier on :D ....... Where did luck come in? Greece took decisive action early, which resulted in a low spread of the infection. Greece 0.02% and falling of their population infected, based on the figures you have been using. UK 0.24% and rising of its population infected. Who is doing best? Seeing as the EU's capitol Belgium is currently top of the WORLDS mortality rate list 8-) ......... I would say the Boris is doing as good a job as can be expected under the circumstances :-| ....... There you go again, rushing in before you've got your head on the right way round! Answer above. Belgium is not the capital of the EU, and nor is Brussels. Brussels is the capital of Belgium: the EU has no capital city - it merely has a city in which most of its head office functions are located. Knit picking *-) ......... Brussels is generally considered to be the headquarters of the EU......ie Capitol ;-) ..... You'd have thought your "wonderful EU" would've been able to protect their headquarters better wouldn't you? 8-) ......... Nit picking? Not at all, just correcting your inaccuracies. You originally said Belgium (a country) was the capitol (sic) of the EU. As I pointed out It is not. Brussels is where the major EU institutions are sited, so as you say it is often referred to as the EU capital city but, as a fact, there is not one, as one has never been designated. But your biggest error, with which you still persist, despite being advised otherwise, is to believe that the EU runs Belgium's national health policy. It does not, and it can not, since it has no jurisdiction over national health policy in any member state including Belgium. All you are doing is repeatedly demonstrating your ignorance of the institution you so revile. If you are uninformed on the obvious, easily checked, basics, I assume you are equally uninformed on the rest of it - which makes any further discussion a bit of a waste of time, doesn't it? But, as you've made yet another ill informed comment, I'll waste a few more seconds to ask you where I've ever pronounced the EU to be "wonderful" (with or without the quotes). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 5:03 PM pelmetman - 2020-05-05 9:40 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:32 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-05 9:25 AM Brian Kirby - 2020-05-05 9:18 AM pelmetman - 2020-05-04 7:13 PM..........................You gave Greece as an example because they were lucky ;-) ...... You didn't give Belgium as an example because they weren't lucky :-| ...... BTW you only have another 57 days to soldier on :D ....... Where did luck come in? Greece took decisive action early, which resulted in a low spread of the infection. Greece 0.02% and falling of their population infected, based on the figures you have been using. UK 0.24% and rising of its population infected. Who is doing best? Seeing as the EU's capitol Belgium is currently top of the WORLDS mortality rate list 8-) ......... I would say the Boris is doing as good a job as can be expected under the circumstances :-| ....... There you go again, rushing in before you've got your head on the right way round! Answer above. Belgium is not the capital of the EU, and nor is Brussels. Brussels is the capital of Belgium: the EU has no capital city - it merely has a city in which most of its head office functions are located. Knit picking *-) ......... Brussels is generally considered to be the headquarters of the EU......ie Capitol ;-) ..... You'd have thought your "wonderful EU" would've been able to protect their headquarters better wouldn't you? 8-) ......... Nit picking? Not at all, just correcting your inaccuracies. You originally said Belgium (a country) was the capitol (sic) of the EU. As I pointed out It is not. Brussels is where the major EU institutions are sited, so as you say it is often referred to as the EU capital city but, as a fact, there is not one, as one has never been designated. . You'd think the EU would ensure their Headquarters was in a country who's government was better than the UK's, at preventing their country from having the highest death rate in the World from COVID19? :-| .......... Is that inaccurate?........... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 pelmetman - 2020-05-06 8:33 AM ................................You'd think the EU would ensure their Headquarters was in a country who's government was better than the UK's, at preventing their country from having the highest death rate in the World from COVID19? :-| .......... Is that inaccurate?........... It could only be accurate if the EU had been invented after the Covid-19 pandemic began, giving it an opportunity to choose where to site their headquarters functions in the light of that knowledge. Here's a Wiki on how Brussels became that city: https://tinyurl.com/yawvbjts It suggests to me that a fair amount of clairvoyance would have been needed for the EU to have chosen Brussels! :-D You may notice that the choice of city was eventually formalised between the governments of West Germany, France, Italy, Belgium, Luxembourg, and the Netherlands in 1965 - after 14 years of negotiation! The EU (disregarding that it has only existed since 1993) has never decided where to site its headquarters, it has just occupied the buildings it happened to inherit from the EEC, and before that the ECSC, who in turn were told where they were going by the governments of six founding members. So, in reality, the whole idea that the EU ever chose where to "live" is itself inaccurate. It went where it was told to go - 28 years before it was formed. All of which makes the short answer to your question - YES, it is inaccurate! Dontcha just lurve facts? :-D The facts on the Belgian Covid-19 fatality count are similarly straightforward, and similarly contradict your assertion about them. Do you get your facts second-hand from Trump? He's been overcharging you! :-D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest pelmetman Posted May 6, 2020 Share Posted May 6, 2020 Brian Kirby - 2020-05-06 3:59 PM The facts on the Belgian Covid-19 fatality count are similarly straightforward, and similarly contradict your assertion about them. Do you get your facts second-hand from Trump? He's been overcharging you! :-D The Belgiums have counted every death where COVID19 may be linked...........we are now including similar deaths :-| ......... Which is why theirs and our death rates appear to be higher than other similar European countries, as they haven't been including carehome deaths......... So perhaps you should wait until they all start using the same abacus? *-) ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Kirby Posted May 7, 2020 Share Posted May 7, 2020 But we know that many who died in carehomes in UK were not tested for Covid, and that in a significant number of cases death certificates merely record the illnesses the deceased had even when suspected of being Covid positive. It seems doubtful that the true number of carehome, home, and non-hospital, Covid deaths will ever be known for certain, other than that it is greater than has been recorded. Belgium, OTOH, apparently did the opposite with undiagnosed carehome deaths, and put them all down to Covid. So their figure is inflated while ours understates. As I've said several times, the numbers have to be treated with great caution until their basis is clear. The likelihood is that the Belgian figure will be revised down and, sadly, ours up. So I agree, we should all wait until we can understand them better before trying to use them for making comparisons and drawing conclusions about who is doing better, or worse, than others ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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